Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: DASERVICES on May 02, 2007, 10:17:11 pm
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Coming soon the only directory that contains legit window cleaners in Scotland, this will be advertised in all newspapers and hopefully Council websites to get public backing and make unlicensed window cleaners a thing of the past.
http://www.slwcn.org/window_cleaning_scotland.htm
Still under construction.
SWLCN helping legit window cleaners in Scotland
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ALL newspapers?!? how much is that?
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Keep up the good work..............
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Just looking at your site, why is it that different councils charge different amounts to get a 'license', i always thought the license was coming from you,
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I know, you would think there would be just one standard set price for a licence no matter what areas u work in........
but that's just too simple.........
A licence for the council to print money i think...........
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Another thing that stinks is, To get a license, you need a police check,Quote from website, if there is a history of violence you will never get a license.
This is a bit harsh, so someone who has had trouble in the past, could be a long time ago, is now not allowed to get a ladder and wet and then dry some ones windows, come on??????? ::)
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It is up to the Police to recomend if the person applying should not be granted a licence, if refused they then have the chance to go before a committee who will then decide if they should be granted a licence. Only in extreme cases will they be refused.
It stops the bogus and those who give window cleaning a bad name.
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What other trades have a 'license'?
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taxi, street traders, market traders
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What about painter and decorators, plumbers, electricians, joiners, carpet fitters,
all these actually spend time in the persons home, so does an electrician from newcastle who quotes to work in glasgow need a license, or if a w/c firm from lets say Fleetwood quoted for work in scotland, would we need a license?
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Anyone who operates in a licenced Council area has to be licensed whever he is from Mars or Scotland ;D. So yes the likes of OCS need to licence their work force and are taking the mickey hence they are now feeling the heat.
I take your point with other trades bu the problem is w/c are at the property week in and out whereas other trades are not. However from speaking to my customers they should to stop the rip off merchants.
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Window cleaning directory is now complete, now to advertise this to the general public and businesses to only use legit window cleaners. Getting there slowly
http://www.slwcn.org/window_cleaning_scotland.htm
Any licensed window cleaners that want to be added please register first on the how to join link
http://www.slwcn.org/join.php
Another step forward to helping our industry.
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Market and street traders do not have a licence, this is a fact.
Pedlars do have a licence.
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Don't know where you live but in Scotland you do, here is a link :-
http://www.clacksweb.org.uk/regulation/civiclicences/
If you scroll on the "licence type" you will see a list of trades that are licensed, window cleaners are still to be added onto this list as Clacks have just introduced it.
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I have a question
What if somewhere in the not to distant future the councils start to try to impose some sort of pricing system on the licenced traders
to try and standardise the industry
the reason i ask is that this week i had a customer try and quote to me that he had done some research and found that the national average was £7.50 for his 3 storey town house, if a standard rate is published we will all be in for some flack
don't get me wrong i do think that some sort of licence is a good thing
but if you look now at the current level of health and safety we are seeing standard pricing as with the taxi drivers could only be a few years away
Andy
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Not all Taxi drivers have their fees set by the council only the ones that operate within the town centre, the ones that operate from bases can charge what they want.
This is my veiw and not the SLWCN, to impose a fixed fee is harmful to the economy. For example if you set the fee for a 3 bed house at £5.00 then the Council and government will be subsidising the window cleaner, as he will not be able to earn enough money so he will then claim council tax allowance and receive high tax credits. What they should be doing is helping the likes of us in treating our work as a business. This means more money for them if we charge what should be a business rate and not what a lot of us do is charge what we live on. This would be my arguement to them backed up with reports etc.. in by doing this they are loosing out.
If this was to happen then the SLWCN would fight tooth and nail to protect their members but speaking words and writing mails do not work. You need to spend a lot of time and research and then issue a report at the highest level to discredit this proposal if they decided to go ahead.
The Taxi Federation have fought tooth and nail about this and got now where with it, hence they are now looking very closely at us to see what impact we will make. We are already making an impact as we have not gone to the office girl in the licensing ofiice but to the legal side and have hit them with facts and figures which stand out a mile. And the likes of OCS nad Mittie who think they are exempt watch this space.
We are all for competition but each one must be on the same level, my only worry is if we are successful at this and it runs smoothly then the councils will start looking at other trades.
Hope I have made sense, personally I would love to see all window cleaners in Scotland hitting £30 an hour with their prices and hopefully what we are doing will help them with it.
Doug
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Had a a look ,Market operator requires a licence and this is not the same as market trader. Street trader i think is what we call a pedlar.
I agree with the thrust of what you are saying though and would support similar in England.
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You state that having a licence makes you legit, but what happens to the cleaners who break the hse rules? is their license cancelled or are they invited in front of the committee to explain their actions.
What about the customer who employs an unlicensed cleaner, are they prosecuted?
Having a license doesn't make you totally legal.
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Like England the HSE are not enforcing it but certain council conditions are now stating that you have to work in a safe manner. As far as I know No they have not started being strict on it but time will tell.
The problem we have is that customers are unaware about the licence so this is another one of our tasks. Most Councils do not enforce it and the few that do do not enforce it properly in turning a blind eye on National comapnies. So it's the poor sole trader who gets it.
This is where the SLWCN comes in by trying to get the councils to have accross the board a fair system for all window cleaners. If a licence is required the they should make sure the public are aware and it is enforced.
It was not set up as a Council money making scheme but was introduced by the Police to stop those who damage our trade.
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what about here in the eastern borders doug (berwickshire) ?
tony
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Tony,
If you can get half a dozen or so window cleaners to back it then we will push for it. But you may upset the English who cross over as they will have to be licensed. ;D
Doug
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well i'm english doug (sunny barnsley s.yorks) but now live just over the border, love scotland, great people, lovely soft water ;) wouldn't go back, so to be honest i wouldn't mind upsetting a few of my old mates ;D ;D
How would i go about persuing this with the council doug?
tony
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Is a license really necessary, as you said the councils don't enforce it.
When the councils realize that they have to do some work for the money that they are being paid, what will happen then.
You will find that the council will bring in more and more regulations, which won't be to helpful to your window cleaner but because the council is now working harder then their costs will increase and the license fee will rise also.
The police wanted the license for what reason? every burglar went around in the disguise of a window cleaner, I think not.
What about the builders-Plumbers-Roofers-Gardeners and those nice people who have a little bit of tarmac leftover and they can relay your driveway for a bargain price? why can't they be licensed as well? or are only crooks window cleaners?
On condition of being issued a license you should be of good character, and not have a criminal record, what about the people who when they were 15-16-17- or 20 broke the law and got caught.
Now 10-15-20- or even 40 years later they can't put their past behind them and move forward in their lives?
Having a license might seem a good idea but will the customer be protected from a cleaner who is rude-arrogant, misses some of their windows when he suppose to clean them, will the license stop them? I think not.
Will the license protect the cleaner from being under paid for the job, because the customers thinks that £3.00 a house is more than enough?
What happens when the council decides what a cleaner can charge?
How will they work out the right rate for the job. Will they look at someone like Turbo Terry. They can see that he can clean a front window in under 5 seconds, so a whole house should take no more than 8 minutes, and because you can clean 5 houses an hour, and the average wage in that area for someone self employed is £25.00 per hour, you should only charge £5.00 per house.
What will happen if the council decides that your equipment should undergo a MOT type test? which you have to pay for.
What happens if the councils says you have to wear a uniform? they also decide what the uniform should be. You can't wear shorts or a t-nutss in the summer?
You all might think this is far fetched, but it has happened in other industries.
Yes the public need protecting from the crooks, but licensing is not the answer.
If you phone your local council about finding a window cleaner they will recommend that they should have insurance and try to use someone who is recommended to you be a neighbour, friend or family, if you still don't know of any they say look in yellow pages.
They don't say telephone the FWC or APWA or any other association that have window cleaners on their books.
The window cleaning industry does not need more rules and regulations, its needs common sense.
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it might stop some foreign b****rd cleaning windows for a quid >:( >:(
tony
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it might stop some foreign b****rd cleaning windows for a quid >:( >:(
tony
No it won't because he will just get a license and carry on as normal
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but he will have to be here legaly & it might make him think twice ;)
tony
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Tony,
Will have to maybe pursue that through the local Police but what we would like to see is that it is rolled out across the few remaining councils that do not have it. I know other window cleaners in these areas have been pushing their councils for the licence to be introduced. We have contacts in Goverment so will ask the question.
William,
Council's are now asking for spent convictions where as before they only asked for the past 6 yrs, the reason behind this I do not know.
Your other questions are reasonable so hence why the SLWCN was created to tackle councils over this. It is not our voice but all window cleaners throughout Scotland that are licensed it's what they would like to see which we aim to tackle the authorities about. It is going to be a long hard task. The FED have been involved about this for many years and did not get anywhere which they informed us so hence a seperate network within Scotland was formed.
Yes things may happen but the power of 1000 window cleaners speaking one voice is more effective than the odd individual.
What would happen if all of a sudden every unlicensed window cleaner was stopped from working then there would be a major shortage of window cleaners. Then you would see prices rocket.
The SLWCN aim is to try and sell the licensed window cleaner to the public and value them more and to get them to pay them what they are worth. Also to try and educate the public about wfp and safety. It's a long battle but window cleaners in Scotland are crying out for this and if we unite we can resolve this.
If this was happening in England and oops Wales ( for Tosh ) I'm sure you would be shouting at the FED and AWPC to resolve this.
Hope this makes sense.
Doug
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Doug
In Birmingham there is over 5000 cab drivers, who over the last 25 years have seen one new regulation after another, each new policy change has cost them money, but it has not stopped the illegal cab driver.
If you go into the city on a weekend and the clubs all close, the amount of people who jump into any car is astounding, there are many times that even the police encourage this practice, as it clears the streets faster, so less work for them.
If the government is not willing to listen to 1 and 3/4 million people who appose the car charges, that they are thinking about, what council is going to think about 1000 cleaners spread over one country think.
You say that the councils now look into the spent convictions that window cleaners have before giving them a license, what will happen if the councils decides that anyone who did not pay their rates should not be issued with a license, or if they are behind in their payments they should have their licence suspended, what if they linked it to you having car tax or insurance as well, what would 1000 voices be able to do.
These might seem far fetched, but its not something that you can guanratee might not happen.
Once you open the door to rules and regulations , it is very hard to repeal them
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Quote" what will happen if the councils decides that anyone who did not pay their rates should not be issued with a license, or if they are behind in their payments they should have their licence suspended"
Yes we have heard about one council that do this but still looking into why as it seems unjust trying to stop someone working when they are behind their rates.
If on searching and looking you will always find a loophole that you can catch the council out, for instance I used to live in a flat which I bought which the council owned the leasehold so you have to pay service charges. I found a loophole and did not pay, ended up in court and won the case.
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Doug
Why don't you campaign for a voluntary scheme, whereas any window cleaner has to go thought a vetting procedure his insurance is checked, he knows about and compiles with h&s, he is registered with tax office and carries a id card.
This way a potential customer can get a council approved cleaner or not.
If its works you will find that any cleaner who wants more business is likely to join.
They have now stated to include people with spent convictions, whats happens to him now, he has properly spent years building up a successful business, he might have invested thousands in new wfp equipment, he might even employ people, yet sometime in his past he broke the law and because of this, his license to earn a living for himself-workers and family is taken away.
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William,
The council tried this with taxi dirivers with ni number etc.. and had to stop it as it had something to do with human rights etc... With the current system they have looked into it and it does not infringe human rights etc..
Spent convictions I agree as the licence should only be refused if the person is considered a danger to the public at that time, we all make mistakes in life. If men were perfect then women would be so frustated as they could have nothing to nag about. ;D
I have a feeling this has been brought in because of disagreements between the Police and the council. Where the Police have advised that someone is refused a licence the council have gone against their advise and issued one. Why they do this I do not know but it makes it hard to try and get a National licence where one council will refuse someone a licence and another will give it to him.
We have found many faults in our investigations but we are not a committee that make desicions by ourselves, this is made by our members and by speaking to them individually by phone etc..
Well that is all I have to say now as I am now off to get some shut eye as I am on 3 weeks vacation. Think I may have withdrawal symptons not being on here for so long ;D
Doug