Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dudek on April 27, 2007, 11:08:40 pm
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Hello all,
Just wondered at what sort of rate do you lose customers when making the change?
Any tips for the transition? ???
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They drop like flies mate. :(
Seriously though, always explain first, and pray they like you or have seen it done before.
I've done about 75 houses with it so far and lost 5 I think.
So I'm guessing altogether I'll lose about 10 or so...
I'm not going to use it on bungalows or shops though.
No point risking your best stuff, and it'll be no quicker on them anyway.
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you are so right squeeks, i have lost so many customers that i know i wont change either because they are too ignorant to accept the change and i cant be bothered to explain or it is still quicker the 'trad' and in my opinion the better way domestically is to clean is still by ladders, i am not prepared to lose so many customers to 'the other bloke who still uses ladders' so i offer both services still if they cant be persuaded, a bit of a back step i know but business is business
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Thing is, at the moment I don't even carry ladders.
I'm going to have to get myself some small ones that fit in the van so I can do the ones on the sides above garage roofs.
Like I always said when I was trad...
There's more I can't reach with wfp, than ones I now can.
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i am beginning to think ( i have been both trad and wfp for 5 years ) that i will still do houses by ladder and wfp commercial as i still get complaints i never got from doing it by hand, nothing like inspecting your work first hand and if you make a smear you see it on your way down the ladder >>>> you know where i am coming from mate(squeaky) , my confidence has gone from negative feedback from 75% of domestic customers, offer both services but just say the ones you couldnt do by ladder you will now pole, seems to work for me LONG LIVE TRAD!!
ps. i am the new non believer
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do you get customers coming over saying 'i don't want the poles anymore i like the old way"
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all the time mate
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Would it not make sense to just go poles otherwise it seems a wasted investment?
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with domestic customers i always have and probably always will still clean as i always have apart from the hard to reach windows. then you can provide the extra service of 'hard to reach windows' which you charge a premium for, no rules or regulations state that you cant use ladders anymore but just use them safely e.g have them footed or use a safety device such as a rojack or even simpler someone footing the ladder, i think people have confused the rule and have totally banned the use of ladders which is untrue, if you have commercial clients they will understand but people have jumped on the band wagon and taken this rule to the extreme... it is not the case, ladders are not banned but just encouraged to be used safer!!!!!!!!
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We have been wfp for about 2 months and have not lost 1 customer.
OK we have spent ages talking with our customers and telling them the fors and against of wfp but so far everyone has been pleased with the results.
I do hope it get quicker though after the first couple of cleans because at the minute we are spending twice as long on first cleans with wfp just to get them right
Will it eventually become quicker?
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I lost around 2% of my customers since converting to 100% wfp
We did spend time explaining the system and some were a mare to start with.
I think that some are under the illusion that as soon as you convert you are going to get round much quicker and therefore increase your turnover-WRONG.
The firtst two or three cleans on a property are the hardest and take the longest and I do not believe I was saving any time at all -to the contrary -it takes longer.
But stick with it and after this period providing you have wfp'd them properly-your business will increase and your work will be quicker which in turn puts your turnover up.
I have increased my business around 30% since converting and I was 99% domestic.
I now have some nice commercials too.
On the flip side I am spending out lots of £'s every month either upgrading or replacing wfp stuff.
When you are trad the £'s out are minimal.
The way I look at it is my first year wfp will hurt you in the wallet but your business would have grown to more than cover the costs.After the first year you will see and reap the benefits.
Russ
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dear me you lot!
wfp is the best thing i have done ever! my windows are spotless and no complaints. out of a lot of customers, i lost two £5 houses, and one said that i made a hell of a mess with water on the floor! hate to she what shes like when it rains! i really couldnt care less. i do alot of big posh houses and they are very happy, i will NEVER go back up ladders as thats pointless in spends 1000's on equipment that i aint gonna use. and i wouldnt do them trad either, i do all my bungalows with wfp, as it DOES do a better job. if someone wants it doing the old way, go else where! and to be honest, the way things are going there wont be an old window cleaner, round here there are aroud 10 wfp'ers and 1 trad...
a r window cleaning, when the first cleans are out of the way you will be laughing yoursocks off mate, it really does get quick!
dont be daft and get your pole out...and most of all, USE IT PROPERLY!
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i do all my bungalows with wfp, as it DOES do a better job. if someone wants it doing the old way, go else where! and to be honest, the way things are going there wont be an old window cleaner, round here there are aroud 10 wfp'ers and 1 trad...
Rubbish does it do a better job. ::)
It does a reasonably good job yes, and it's enough to get away with most of the time.
But look closely, better than squeegeeing? Never.
You must be in a strange area too, because round here there's about 4 wfp cleaners and 10 or 15 trad cleaners.
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Its strange really how you finish cleaning the window with the pole then look up and think "thats looks pretty good"........but its when you leave the house, thats when dirty water seeps out of all the little nooks and crannies.
This happened to me this week and Im going back today and using the ladder to go up an wipe the window with a micro because it looks THAT bad.
Another but.....the customer was still happy.
Bod
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I turned to wfp same time as Squeaky m8 but for me its been the opersite, people have seen me doing it in the street stoped, even crossed over and asked me about it. This normaly ends up in me giving them a quote to. I havent lost anyone with it as of yet but picked up a load more.
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If you splash around doggy-paddling in the shallow end you'll not become a good swimmer.
Here's how I did it - and I think it is easy even now two years on to forget the pain of change. But life is soooooo sweet now!
No fear of a fall.
More income.
Less body wear.
And a better result for my customers.
Come on guys - take the plunge properly.
1. Send a letter to every customer you want to keep.
Explain that your reading of the H/S regs, means you are severely restricted in ladder use and that there may be insurance issues if a window cleaner continues trad on their property. (That will explain to the reasonable and put a bit of fear into the remaining ones - You fall - they pay because they won't let you use the safest gear is a scarey if remote possibility.)
Explain the frame cleaning etc.
1b If you've got time do a low suds gg3/gg4 clean and wipe top frames, vents and cills as your last trad.
2. Do a really thorough first clean wfp, frames and all and rinse rinse rinse - like you do for a new customer - it pays massive dividends for the future.
You will now feel cheesed off at the time it has taken - new ways - tripping up over hoses - broken ornaments.
3. The really unreasonable will leave - about 3 in my case. The rare georgian with 100 yr old leaky frames will be dropped. 1 in my case. Hooo-flippin'-ray! ;D
4. Reap the rewards, learn from the niggles - ask here - and don't get despondent! Go microbore and lighter poles. On UPVC and most others the results will be better by the third clean. Soap gone, technique improved. I can now bring up a first clean perfectly - it takes longer but I know what to do.
Add and charge for windows above conservatories and rooflights as you want to.
5. Be an optimistic fart like me! It's great!
Modified to add - I missed biscute's reply because I'm so long-winded - he is so right!
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Well put Malc.
Im finding it hard because I am rinsing sooo much and so far not lost any customers in my first 3 weeks. The reoson Im going back to this one house is pride. I cant leave a window in such a bad state.
Bod
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I changed over just over a year ago and lost one customer who has since asked me to go back as the rest of her neighbours love it and the wc that was doing her house after me was crap.
All the houses i had that didnt suit wfp ie climbing over garages - gates and just general hassle jobs i gave them away approx 60 houses.
I replaced with better work and work that suits the method i now use, i used to have around 240 houses on my round now i have 160, and the round is worth twice as much as it was when i was on ladders.
On average i clean between 8 and 10 houses a day and earn good money, no stress no rush just take my time and acheive excellent results ( every time ) i dont advertise and only get work through reccomendations and alot of my work is out in the country on farms so i,m always in nice countryside and without changing from trad to wfp the work i do now would not have been possible.
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Been back to clean the offending windows and decided NOT to use my ladders and used the pole.
Customer over the moon that I came back, after all she was happy with them in the first place(I wasn't)
I can now go to watch the Canaries with my conscious clear ;D
Bod
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i do all my bungalows with wfp, as it DOES do a better job. if someone wants it doing the old way, go else where! and to be honest, the way things are going there wont be an old window cleaner, round here there are aroud 10 wfp'ers and 1 trad...
Rubbish does it do a better job. ::)
sorry how long have you been wfp'in again? (not a dig buddy, but i thought like you in the start)
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What a bunch of moaning old women!!! Get a grip. Were moving into the future now!
The results are fantastic! They are every bit as good as trad on 99% of jobs. How many trad cleaners wash and rinse the frames and sills??? none of them. They just wipe over with a damp dity smelly scrim.
We brush & rinse them properly. Trad cleaners only do half a job while us wfp ers do a right job. Why worry about loosing customers to wfp? If you loose 1 you will pick up 2 or 3 in the next few days.
If you not getting good results go home and practice on your own windows. Your obviously not doing it right! I just picked up a large contract as they were not happy with there trad cleaner.
why settle for less with trad when you can get more work done with wfp and pick up larger contracts which could never be done trad? My feet are safely on the ground and Im very happy with my system. Just stick to it and dont question yourself. If you dont have faith in your own work how will your customers?
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superb reply clear vision!
couldnt of put it better myslef
"My feet are safely on the ground"
as to are mine and thats where they're stayin ;)
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every ones work is different, every ones customers are different & every window cleaner is different, what works for one may not work for another.
Here is some advise from my personal experience. (3 1/2 years wfp)
Not all my work can be done wfp & some that can is better/quicker done trad. If i dropped the jobs which i dont/cant use wfp on then i would be losing a very lot of money & some of my best accounts. :o
Be realistic about wfp, treat it as an additional tool & not a total solution. Dont get sucked in to "all the hype" it's not as rosey as you may beleive. :-\
You will only ever earn more money if you personaly create more work, wfp will not do this for you, so could you be earning more now ???
On an average, i personaly dont think wfp is that much easier than trad, (domestic wise) yes it is easier to a certain degree but not as much as others on here make out, like- OH MY GOD, I HAD TO USE A LADDER TODAY, I THINK I'LL HAVE TO NIP TO CASUALTY!! I'M KNACKERED, ACHING, OH PLEASE, SOMEONE HELP! (kind of thing) as if using a ladder is 10 times harder than wfp ::)
I have some jobs where wfp is far quicker than trad & some where it's hardly any quicker. wfp should always be safer than trad but not always quicker or easier.
There are many benefits too, but i'm sure others will point these out ;D
Just be realistic in your expectations, not everyone can afford to lose customers & not everyone can easily replace them. I've never lost 1 customer to wfp but that may be cos' i only use it where appropriate, some of my work could never in a million years be done wfp.
I'm very glad i went down the wfp route 3 1/2 years ago, i benefit from it greatly, it was very hard at first (i had been given "all the hype"). I just wish someone had explained the downsides of wfp to me first. I would still have done it, but it would have made me more realistic & better prepaired for my wfp venture, thats why i think it important to be informed of the negatives of wfp before you go into it, this way you have all the info, which will benefit you when you start out. ;)
Sorry if i sound like a misserable b***ard, (i'm not realy) ;D but like i say, i feel it important to benefit others.
tony
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Macmac your last post was correct in every sense of the word,i would say the same to any wc thinking of going wfp route.On some of my jobs i wouldn`t be without it now but i`m sure the old blade comes out a lot more than some people say on here,unless it`s got more than 3 bedrooms i rarely use the pole with the exception of leadlight houses.
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no lies, i dont use the blade, only for insides
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I've been wfp for almost 4 months and lost 2 customers due to wfp. I use it on almost every thing but I also carry a bucket on the van with a blade.
You do need to talk the customers through it though and even leave a leaflet. One lady blew her top when she saw us using the pole, she went in read the leaflet and then phoned up to apologize.
I think you would loose more from doing a price increase, I know I have recently and in previous years.
I find it great for bungalows and the customers like it as it, they say it does a better job on the frames (never did these). Even on bungalows it's faster, not on the first clean but after that when you can just give a quick brush over and then blast off with water, it's quicker.
Simon
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I have been going 16months wfp now and hand on heart its the best thing I have done since I started w/cleaning in 1980.
I have lost about 10 customers max because they dont like wfp. On the positive, the size of my round as increased by 40% since switching to wfp.
I was working at my max trad cleaning,so any increse in the size of my round would of resulted in switching from a 4 week clean to a 5 or 6 week.With wfp the speed increase for me was around 30% over trad so its allowed me to earn more money in less time.
Wfp is not perfect on everything. But you get to know which windows are the problems and you adapt accordingly. On some downstairs windows I will dab a top window with my brush and then scrim it dry. Because if I wfp the top opener the water runs behind the seal of the window picks up dirt and then leaves spots.
Iam 98% domestic and most customers love wfp.
Change is hard, give it time for customers to get used to it and for you to develop your teqnique.
Nel
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simon
i agree with you on the price increase, thats why i would never advise someone to put prices up when they start wfp cos' it gives the customer a "get out of jail free card" if they dont like the idea of wfp. they could easily use the price increase to drop you. They may well think- your gonna leave my windows, walls & patio wet through AND put the price up? i dont think so!
You know what some people are like- "we dont like change" ;D
tony
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"we dont like change" ;D
(http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/3657/danapics/garth2.jpg)
"we fear change"
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I didn't lose any customers when I switched and I would never go back but I still find it hard to walk away and leave the windows wet.
I still blade patio doors and the like because the only thing that pure water won't shift is a handprint.
The thing is, when you are trad you choose your customers to suit your method of working. I avoided leaded windows and houses with cars in the front garden that blocked your access. Now neither of those are a problem but not having ladders means I can't get to some of the side windows over extensions etc. Its horses for courses.
Squeekie's comment about bungalows is true in part but most bungalows round here have leaded glass. (I don't know why except they tend to have older people living there and I guess its to their taste ). Is a lot quicker to do them WFP.
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to be fair though, wfp good for commercial, if its being cleaned every 4 weeks, so not alot of dirt accumulates
but come on lets get into the real world, people don't always want their windows done every 4 weeks
and besides you leave the window soaking wet, what with all this pollen and dust around, it sticks straight to the glass and looks awful
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and besides you leave the window soaking wet, what with all this pollen and dust around, it sticks straight to the glass and looks awful
Certainly something I'm concerned about.
On ones I've had doubts about I've quickly squeegeed off the water on a few prominent downstairs windows.
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am i right in thinking that pure water is still doing its job whilst drying?
therefore blading off wouldnt help??
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I find that if blading off is needed then i`ve not rinsed enough.
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Face it guys, wfp may well be quicker/safer but it just doesn't produce a consistently a good a job as trad!
Proof?...I've read loads on this forum of wfp guys getting sacked because the customer prefers trad but nowt about trad getting sacked for wfp.
Also, with my ladders and a little bit of balls I get to windows wfp boys can't/won't attempt.
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He's right you know. :-X
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You won`t be saying that in a couple of months squeaky,and simon what do you mean with a little bit of balls you get to windows off a ladder wfp wcs do,have you read the thread about check your policy it`s interesting reading it might change your view mate.And squeaky if you ask me i think the worst possible time to change to WFP is this time of year it`s asking for trouble,this time of year you`ll see every little mark thats left on certain sides of houses,this is gonna cause you trouble on your first couple of cleans unless your willing to spend ages there doing them.When i went WFP it was the begining of winter and in the winter as you know it gets dark between 3-4 and the sun hardly shows it`s face that time of year,starting that time of year it gives you loads of cleans to get the windows up to scratch so when summer comes round you`ll have no problems at all.
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Mr NWH, my work looks good in all lights, in all seasons... (and first time round!!) And I certainly don't have to fanny customers into accepting that the first 2-3 cleans will be sub-standard because I've adopted a new method but still expect them to pay full price.
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You`ll come round in the end they all do,i`ll just carry on doing twice as much work and still not knackerd on a friday.And that`s not just bitching that`s a fact i was trad for 15yrs+.
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"twice as much work"...as who?
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If you could earn more money and get your work done quicker and on the whole provide a better service why do you think most of the guys on here have gone WFP,it`s a no brainer.
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" If you couldn't earn more money...."?...I don't understand!
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" If you couldn't earn more money...."?...I don't understand!
You never will either whilst your cleaning traditionally :-\
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Asda are doing a special offer at the moment on fairy liquid,buy 1 get free.Get down there quick.
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Asda...Fairy Liquid....BOGOF...guv' you've lost me...!!! Dinner awaits...Bonsoir mon ami.
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Simon's the new me, ;D
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Hey lads,
Thanks for all your views!
They are greatly appreciated (plenty of useful tips)
Thanks again
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we must educate these non belivers
as said, they will come round, oh yes they will
and also as said, thats why soooooo many of us have and wouldnt look back, and to be fair im earning more than double, im not knackered, and im safe
why question that?
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hang on arnt we forgetting something, how do wfp people do insides?
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water fed squeegee. ;) ;D
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What a bunch of moaning old women!!! Get a grip. Were moving into the future now!
The results are fantastic! They are every bit as good as trad on 99% of jobs. How many trad cleaners wash and rinse the frames and sills??? none of them. They just wipe over with a damp dity smelly scrim.
We brush & rinse them properly. Trad cleaners only do half a job while us wfp ers do a right job. Why worry about loosing customers to wfp? If you loose 1 you will pick up 2 or 3 in the next few days.
If you not getting good results go home and practice on your own windows. Your obviously not doing it right! I just picked up a large contract as they were not happy with there trad cleaner.
why settle for less with trad when you can get more work done with wfp and pick up larger contracts which could never be done trad? My feet are safely on the ground and Im very happy with my system. Just stick to it and dont question yourself. If you dont have faith in your own work how will your customers?
what????????????/
talk about a guilty conscience, you obviously dont know alot of w/c if you dont think any do a good job on the sils and frames.
and this isnt a leap into the future, seems to me that alot of you guys have forgotten why you are window cleaner.....(let me remind you) TO EARN MONEY if farting on the windows kept the customer happy and she paid, i would do it, but i certainly wouldn t change because THIS IS THE FUTURE, AND SOON YOU WILL NEED ROCKET BOOTS TO KEEP UP WITH THE FUTURE. but im certainly not gonna keep coming on this forum and having to make excuses about how great wfp is, if its so great why the need to tell us every 5 mins, i agree commercial work. fantastic, as long as it is cleaned every 4 weeks, and if its done every 4 weeks, trad is just as easy.
i mean come on lads, would you really be moaning about ladders if wfp hadnt been invented,
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hahah
really squeek?
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"would you really be moaning about ladders if wfp hadnt been invented"
but it has been invented...and it is the best thing i have bought...its made my life easier...so yes i will be reminding you every 5 mins how good it is ;)
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Well, I'm not convinced yet, but we'll see.
Saying that, I couldn't go back to ladders.
I got fed up of climbing up and down.
It's nice not to have tired legs now.
When your legs are tired you feel tired all over.
If I dumped wfp I'd have to build a big round of bungalows!
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I like this dudek he stats the wfp trad argument and then disappears.
Simon.
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Simon's the new me, ;D
I'll never fill your boots Squeaks ;D
Besides which I'm not anti wfp...just get a bit fed up people telling me it's the ONLY way to wash windows.
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im with simon.
i think he should be our leader
and lwc, i did say it was great for commercial, but ermhum, the big factor being you leave them soaking wet, for lots of dust to collect
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dust that when it drys blows off ;)
im not getting into a big debate and im not saying wfp is the only way
but people who dont use it, or people who have been using it for a few weeks have no room to comment, thats all ;)
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been wfd for 12 months now not lost 1 customer ,picked up loads of work with it,for me wfp is the best thing since sliced bread.
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Newbies - ask yourself this:-
Why would someone who has been trad. for five, ten or even more years change to wfp and stay at it if it wasn't any good and customers weren't happy?
I believe wfp has been around for 10 years and there is no sign of it lessening.
I do all my commercial and virtually all my domestic external work wfp.
When I look at a job it's not shall I use trad. or wfp for me - it's which method of wfp now. (Hose from van or Backpack)
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what do you do when peoples windows are open?
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close em of course ;D
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And if a window is locked slightly open or too stiff to close (about 5% of cases) then a skilful wfp'er can clean it in the open position, including the frame by turning the flow down and scrubbing carefully.
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yeh, if they are the top ones that open upwards, if you get what you mean, you can clean em open, just stand back a bit
i did one the other day on a 3 story building
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yea and with the window open you leave a lovely 1cm water mark at the bottom where the water cannot run away,now that's skilful. ;D ;D ;D
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and you get bloody neck ache!!! mines killing me at the mo
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So when you change over to wfp and the bedding in period is over do you find that after each days work you have lots of little jobs to keep the system maintained?
The reason why is my mate has one outreach system and two home made systems and all he bangs on about is being able to 'maintain it yourself' but if im honest i dont want to be constantly maintaing after a days graft!
Does it pay to buy quality in the long run?
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either diy or a supplied system should need virtually no maintainance if built correctly. you should just be able to switch on every morning & start work. filters will need changing every so often but thats easy. One tip i will give you is to buy a ready made pump box, everything done inside, all you will have to do is connect hose to in & out. had mine over 3 years with no trouble. ;) just plugs straight into 12v cigarette lighter socket.
tony