Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: jeff1 on April 24, 2007, 06:57:55 pm
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Last year when I was still Trad, I lost a customer whom I had cleaned for 8 years, they had a very large bungalow with dormer windows and I used to do this Bungalow for £30
I lost it to a new W/C to the area and he under cut me by £15 Some months later my boss was shopping at Asda and she hared a woman shout out loud to her partner 'Theres my W/C My Boss looked up to her and said no were not, you have a new one, this woman replied 'o' he's not very good and we haven't seen him since?
My boss knows my rules, dump me and you don't come back on my books, maybe a little harsh for some of you guy's, but I have my pride and my rules.
Anyway the week before last, I was approached by another W/C who knew the one who pinched this customer, he told me this guy under priced all his work and was dedicated to getting a wfp set-up, he became so besotted about getting wfp that he gave up being a Trad W/C until he gained his wfp? he now has this equipment, so only time will tell.
I don't think he will have much luck back in this village because today aloan, I picked up three of his old customers
I priced one of them at £12 and she told me her last W/C used to charge her £6:50 and yes it was the same guy were is he now I asked?
She told me she hadn't seen him for months and when he was her W/C he was very unreliable
In the past couple of months I have almost tripled what this guy took from me from his old customers and no doubt there is more to come.
What would have you guy's done in this situation??
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whats the situation lol :)
about taking the one back? id of done it and put the price to £40 to teach em a lesson lol
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whats the situation lol :)
about taking the one back? id of done it and put the price to £40 to teach em a lesson lol
Would you have hessitated in taking his old customers??
No way will I take the old one back, They did it once and they won't get a second chance.
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whats the situation lol :)
about taking the one back? id of done it and put the price to £40 to teach em a lesson lol
Thats fair enough really, I would say I'm really busy now and couldn't fit you in unless I dropped a job. Now they know how good you are they will probably jump back on your books.
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oh i see sorry ::)
too right, not your fault youve been asked now is it! you cant just eave customers and expect them to keep you
they want there windows cleaning, and your the person they asked
not your fault now is it buddy, buisness is buisness end of ;)
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I don't understand your position Jeff, or where pride comes into it. You are running a business.
If I were in exactly your position, I would take them back - keeping the charge more or less the same-
perhaps mentioning that you had felt offended losing the work after believing you had done a good job for such a long time. You had come to regard them as friends not just customers, so it had come as a shock.
While it might be stretching a point to say they are groveling to you Jeff, they certainly do seem penitent.Give them a second chance in view of the fact that in the eight years they were with you they were good customers.
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So I take them back until the next dole dosser or fair weather guy comes along and they bin me again for a cheaper W/C.
Thats not the way I work. word spreads fast in a village, take one back and they will all be at it, thinking, Jeff's a nob head he'll take us back ::)
Word has spread that I don't take customers back, so they may think twice when the next cheap quote comes along.
I have had a lot of these customers for 10 years come June.
I am regular, reliable, honest, and above all I do a good Job.
I don't need someone after 8 years of good service to them, dumping me for a half price W/C's, who are here today and gone tomorrow.
Sorry its just the way I work.
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I take your point Jeff and everyone on this forum knows that you are genuine, however;
If you follow your logic of taking things that personally that means that everytime you come across this other window cleaner you don't make eye contact, or you feel your fists clenching and your anger rising.
It also probably means that you don't speak to ex customers. Be a bigger man. In the scheme of things we are not as important as we think we are. Rise above it all and take the £30.
Ps If your kids were young you'd take the thirty quid in a flash because you would have had to. That is sanity.
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Jeff.... im with you on this one.... i live in a small village to and as you say word spreads quick.
Bazz...
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A couple of years a go the same thing happened on a £6 account, in another village, she came up to me and asked me to take her back, I swollowed my pride and took her back, although I still have this customer, are relationship has never been the same, and we just seem to grunt at each other, I hate doing this account now, and also feel if a cheaper W/C came along, she would probablly dump me again.
So you see its not just the money its the relationship with the custy afterwards.
And as for me, I talk to any bugger, ;D even another W/C who under cut me, business is business, but you can't buy good friends ;)
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i take them back, afterall 30 quid of them is as good as 30 quid of some1 else
i allways put the price up a little aswell, just to rub there nose in it a little, i feel its like saying " well you begged for me to come back and your paying more money "
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The wife particulary seems to realise what a mistake they have made. To shout across in a stage whisper in the super market ,at least shows shows some pluck on her part- how else was she going to do it while saving some face. Her husband is probably as stubborn as you are Jeff, only he feels stupid and embarrassed for admitting he was wrong (it's nearly always the men who make these decisions).
Meanwhile his wife feels bad about her newly dirty house (she had eight years of clean to compare and contrast with), and of course the matter of the thirty pounds going begging.
You want to talk about principles think about the Iraq war. If Rooney can play with Ronaldo, you can be a pro too and take the thirty quid.
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If I felt I could do them again, in other words have a good customer relationship with them again then I'd take them on at a much higher rate. But if I thought that the relationship would be strained and that they wouldn't appreciate my work I'd tell them I've no room for them.
This is supposed to be a stress free job, I try to keep it that way where ever possible.
Simon.
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The wife particulary seems to realise what a mistake they have made. To shout across in a stage whisper in the super market ,at least shows shows some pluck on her part- how else was she going to do it while saving some face. Her husband is probably as stubborn as you are Jeff, only he feels stupid and embarrassed for admitting he was wrong (it's nearly always the men who make these decisions).
Meanwhile his wife feels bad about her newly dirty house (she had eight years of clean to compare and contrast with), and of course the matter of the thirty pounds going begging.
You want to talk about principles think about the Iraq war. If Rooney can play with Ronaldo, you can be a pro too and take the thirty quid.
I hate to tell you this but his wife suffers from senile dementure (think I spelt that wrong) ::) it was the husband that did the dumping. and he was a business man and said thats business for you, well I don't need his £30, who knows I might swollow my pride one day, and charge him £50, well thats business isn't it ;D
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if the work was convienient to me
i.e well priced ,easy access,with other work
then i would take it back no problem
if however they did the same again then it would be a definate no
you have obviously built up a reputation as a w/c that doesnt take any crap from customers and want to keep that reputation so for you and your business you did the right thing
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I don't suppose there is a right answer.
Imo, Ricahrd Branson would take them back, Alan Sugar wouldn't. so from a business perepective that doesn't prove much.
I'm an obsessive so have to face up to situations, especially ones I don't like. So I am probably projecting a little. Another way to think about this is if you were a larger window cleaning company and the lads came back and said that a thirty quid customer asked to come back but they told them to get stuffed how would you feel about that?
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I don't suppose there is a right answer.
Imo, Ricahrd Branson would take them back, Alan Sugar wouldn't. so from a business perepective that doesn't prove much.
I'm an obsessive so have to face up to situations, especially ones I don't like. So I am probably projecting a little. Another way to think about this is if you were a larger window cleaning company and the lads came back and said that a thirty quid customer asked to come back but they told them to get stuffed how would you feel about that?
If I were a larger w/c company, then things would be different, because I wouldn't have to talk to the customer, but I would have wages to pay, so in that case I would take them back.
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business is business, it's part of the game. if asda started selling gaz's swivel brush for 3 quid would you stay loyal to gaz & buy one from him for 20 odd quid???
I'd take her back (we all make mistakes) BUT, then i would make it clear that this would be her final chance. dont get me wrong, i wouldn't be messed around either but i would give a second chance.
tony
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I wouldn't take a customer back on unless I was really, really short of work which I'm not, simply because the trust has gone and to take them back on will always leave you in doubt when will they do it to you again. Not only that but word spreads in small villages that it's ok to dump you in favour of a cheaper window cleaner knowing you'll take them back on again at a later date when it suits them if the other w/c doesn't measure up to your standards. Stick to your principles and don't be messed around by customers.
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business is business, it's part of the game. if asda started selling gaz's swivel brush for 3 quid would you stay loyal to gaz & buy one from him for 20 odd quid???
I'd take her back (we all make mistakes) BUT, then i would make it clear that this would be her final chance. dont get me wrong, i wouldn't be messed around either but i would give a second chance.
tony
Tony
How can you say you won't be messed around, but then say you would give her a second chance, is that not being messed around being dumped and loosing the £30 for a couple of months in the first place??
And to answer your question on Gaz and asda, no I wouldn't stay loyal to gaz, if asdas sold the swivel brush for £3,
I never stayed loyal to vikan when I found Tesco's selling the benson brush for £1.30 against £25
Do you work in any villages? if so I think you would see were I'm coming from with regards to taking customers back, you know the score as it is, with the dole dosser and the beer money brigade.
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I wouldn't take a customer back on unless I was really, really short of work which I'm not, simply because the trust has gone and to take them back on will always leave you in doubt when will they do it to you again. Not only that but word spreads in small villages that it's ok to dump you in favour of a cheaper window cleaner knowing you'll take them back on again at a later date when it suits them if the other w/c doesn't measure up to your standards. Stick to your principles and don't be messed around by customers.
Spot on, you obviously work in small villages ;)
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Customers don't see it that way. They are selfish and just see it their own way. They probably thought that the window cleaner (Jeff) did a good job, but at £30 it was a bit steep.
"How much?" asked shocked and amazed friend.
"Well we can't fault his work, but he's got us over a barrel. He's the only window cleaner round here that's any good and he knows it. So we are forced to pay his extortionate prices, but if ever anyone starts up that's a bit more reasonable........
"He's got you two for mugs"
I'm not saying above is correct, just how they might perceive us.
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giving her a second chance jeff doesn't amount to being messed around no, she made a wrong judgment & seems to realise this now. have you ever made a bad judjment jeff? ever?
If she did it for a second time though that would be it, dumped!
tony
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Oh, and yes, all my work is rural & small villages. :P
tony
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Tony, then you should know only to well if you work in a small village, have a read what some of the other guy's say who's work is in the small village community, every summer would be the same, 'we don't need you this time, but when the winter comes and the fair weather brigade have all gone into hibernation we'll have you back'. (until next summer) then we'll bin you again.
If that word got around my whole pricing stucture would go out the window and just to make a living, I would have to reduce my prices and do double the work.
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thats fair enough jeff, you know your area & work well, was just adding my oppinion mate. it all depends on the manner in which a customer dumps you too, if she was rude, arrogant & p*ssed me off, then i probably wouldn't give a second chance for that reason, so, i suppose there are a few factors which could change the situation. at the end of the day, you have to do what is best for you & your business. ;)
tony
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Now that you are WFP chancers can't compete on keeping the frames clean.
Also you are wrong about Villages. There are more dole-ites in urban areas. Also Villagers are massively resistant to someone new or from out of the area.
You need to take an overview. Mine would be that although now you are a partial success, for nine years you worked like a donkey and have very little to show for it.
If you are talking about business that is.
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get shut... you can pick your own when you offer quality, so if you were a plumber and someone was unhappy with your work for whatever reason.... and months down the line they realised you were not so bad after all......after , of course ditching you for a cowboy!..... would you work in their home again? b******s.
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A £30 bungalow?
Now that sounds like a choice account to me.....
You were dumped in favour of someone doing it for half the price, they've proved unreliable and now want you back.
If that were a run of the mill account I would happily smile at them, feel smug and say, "Thanks but no thanks, I'm afraid I'm too busy to fit you in."
I'd also want to get the point across, in a very polite way, that I would be leary about taking them back on, only for them to take the next cut price cowboy.
But if it is a top paying job?.....
Then it gets a little tougher doesn't it...
If the guy who cancelled you had said, 'Sorry mate, thats business'. Then yet again, I would have politely told him ok, I'll come back, but my price has to increase.
Not by a tenner, pound to a penny he'd tell you to take a hike.
If his price increases over the years you had done them had been modest, op perhaps you hadn't put them up for 2 or 3 years, then you could easily justify a £5.00 increase, telling him that loyal, long term customers only had minimal increases, but new work, and as he was no longer on your books that what he now is, has to be charged at your current rates.
It's never easy, there have been the odd time when I've lost a customer like this and have looked forward to them asking me back, it's lovely to smile politely and tell them you are now to busy ;D
But if it's a top account and easy money?..........
There comes a point when you say sod the bloody principle, give me the money!! :o
Ian
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id take em back on and be all smug about it, when they say, "he wasnt regular, he didnt do a good job"
then you can say "well...if you go else where..."
guilt trip em!
come on this i a extra £360 a year ;) lol
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they get the elbow first time and last time...no messing, no worrying, no headaches.
I`ve said it before...if they have done it once, they will again and your relationship will never be the same again...just plain UNCOMFORTABLE...
CUSTOMERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU... :'(
YOU ARE GONE FROM THEIR MINDS THE MINUTE YOU DRIVE AWAY UNTIL YOU ARRIVE FOR THE NEXT CLEAN... :'(
when they start sending payment in the winter to cover lost days earnings or to cover sickness, I might feel diferently about business relations.
Offer your service, offer your price, do the job, drive away.
Get taken for a mug...dump them and then drive away to your next customer.
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Given that I am still building my round I put up with aprox 6 late payers (who just take the urine)....when I am in a better position I will not tolerate their games and for those that dump me to the low pricers...I will take them back if they fit my business at the time but they will be at the 'new customers' price whatever that may be.
Until such times I will contine take the occasional nonsense and late payments as part of learning...I am slowly coming around to thinking that this is a business and not a social care network...all the additionals that I have done as a couple of quid or freebie will stop....nothing for nothing...when it comes to charity I shall look to my self to pick a suitable organisation to donate to...
Have a nice day..all
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This situation is unusual - in that you've received the nod that the other / old w/c is re-grouping to come back with wfp. So will you find that the ones of his you've gained at a much higher price will go back to him?
As for the £30 bungalow - I've had this - husband dumps, wife wishes he hadn't and eventually persuades him/tells him she wants you back.
I had a situation where a lady started with me eight years ago as well, got me new customers in the road so that it is now an excellent part of my round. Her husband retired last year and when I met him he would do the "can you leave the back the car's in the garage/can you leave it this time" stuff.
Because she is such a good customer and advocate I tolerated it for a while but the next time I met her alone I politely explained the situation that I had my schedule and needed to keep to it etc.
She said "I'll soon sort him (her husband ;D) out!" And they eat out of my hand now!
But this is unique on my round and generally I have and would dump/run and not take back.
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I dont see why your asking the question for, you seem to have made your mind up and now you seem to be arguing with all that would take them back
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We have had a few like this over the years, not domestic as our houses are usually 1-2 times a year but on storefrnts and small commercial, If they cancel for no good reason and want us back at a later time then we explain to them that we are busy and will not be able to fit them in to our regular schedule but sometimes due to weather or cancelations we may have time to take care of their windows
We ask for a double payment for the first clean which will cover the cost of their last clean should they decide tp look elsewhere again and payment at time of service from then on
so we always owe them one cleaning at our convenience and in order to cancel you get plenty of notice
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Pat...are you in Cork yet...I`m over there 18th - 25th May
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I dont see why your asking the question for, you seem to have made your mind up and now you seem to be arguing with all that would take them back
Read the title again steve, it says 'what would you have done'
I didn't ask should I take them back or not?
Its a good topiic, one were we all have our own ways of running a business, and in my own mind its good to see how other guy's would have reacted, if someone makes a comment to me, saying take them back, I am just putting my own opinion over, just like you have.
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We had one a while ago who spotted us from an upstairs window and waited till we had done it then came out and cancelled!!
It was all I could do to stop the lad throwing mud on the front windows.
We dont and wont do her again.
Trevor
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Pat...are you in Cork yet...I`m over there 18th - 25th May
No unfortunately not, anyone want to buy a house in the US
Enjoy yourself its a great place to visit
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This has run it's course, start another topic Jeff.
How are you going on about filling the gaps left by wfp? did you decide on a leaflet, and was it one you liked or one the forum approved of?
I'm trying to find more work- and funnily enough in Villages- I'm doing okay, but not great.
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This has run it's course, start another topic Jeff.
How are you going on about filling the gaps left by wfp? did you decide on a leaflet, and was it one you liked or one the forum approved of?
I'm trying to find more work- and funnily enough in Villages- I'm doing okay, but not great.
95% of my work is village work including some commercial jobs.
I paid £40 for a years advertising in the village magazine and the phone hasn't stopped, I got home tonight and there were five potential customers wanting a price, and whats good about it, is its all in the areas I do. I would recommend this form of advertising if you work in villages.
On the other side I paid £120 to yellow pages and had 6 calls from it, but one customer out of those 6 calls, got me another 5 customers all in a new area, again a little village that has not seen a W/C in 3 years, and there are some very big houses in this village.
So the gap in my work is filling up very fast, I suppose I can fit in another weeks worth of work before I have to put a stop to it, I work on a 6 weeks round.
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We had one a while ago who spotted us from an upstairs window and waited till we had done it then came out and cancelled!!
It was all I could do to stop the lad throwing mud on the front windows.
We dont and wont do her again.
Trevor
I think she may have done you a favour.
Isn't that better than coming out as your halfway through setting up and telling you then?
Matt
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We had one a while ago who spotted us from an upstairs window and waited till we had done it then came out and cancelled!!
It was all I could do to stop the lad throwing mud on the front windows.
We dont and wont do her again.
Trevor
I think she may have done you a favour.
Isn't that better than coming out as your halfway through setting up and telling you then?
Matt
I think Trevor means that he cleaned the windows and then she cancelled without paying?
The ones we hate and have real agro with are the customers who wait until you finish and then tell you they cancelled last month apparantly!!!! "I left a message on your answer phone" rubbish
Luckily I can count on 1 hand ther number who have tried this but it makes my blood boil!!