Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: homenclean on April 19, 2007, 09:04:36 pm
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I have been cleaning carpets for 16 years and have never known a week like it
it is now Thursday and only had 3 enquiries from add`s (luckily booked all 3).
Dont get me wrong i am not stuck for work due to the commercial jobs and ringing regular customers. but on average i normall receive around 15 new enquiries per week, not including regular customers.
Are people apprehensive about spending money with the uncertain mortgage rates!
Stunned by the good weather!
Or do i just put it down to one of those weeks.
John
Based in Leeds
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I think People are just enjoying the weather for now. spending more time on their Patios drinking beer instead of looking at their grubby carpets & sofas. Wait until the weather turns crap ;)
Regards,
Fletch.
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Well, in our Luton Thomson local there is usually about 2 or 3 pages of carpet cleaners and the one delivered a couple of weeks ago, now has just one page :o
All the big boys (Chemdry, Rainbow, Servicemaster) are not in it. I havent seen the Rainbow guy for a while - think he might have moved? Have people packed it in? or have they just decided for what ever reason not to advertise at present...who knows.
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homenclean, may i ask you how you manage to bring in 15 inquiries a week. Things for me have been quite since i set up but its down to me trying to build my business up slow but steadily, but i am looking at ways to get more work in so your response would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks matt
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I have placed small adds in a lot of publications. Around us there are a lot of market towns and we have a publication that is royal mail delivered into these locations. The add`s are cheap around £25/ per add and i go into four publications per month, because the adds are cheap i can offer a discount to each customer giving me an edge over other advertisers.
I also place small adds into yellow pages and thomsons and vary my trading name to acheive a good position, for instance in yellow pages my business name is A Home `N` Clean. In my opinion position is everythig having a large add is less beneficial.
Once you have the customer it is important that you maximise their potentioal by keeping in regular contact with the customer by mail shot or a quick friendly phone call explaining that it is 12 months since you did some work for them and would you they like anything done this year, explain every service you offer as they may not know you clean upholstery or curtains etc.
Encourage your customers to refer you to their friends and family leave a few business cards and ask them to pass them on.
leaflet drop into middle class areas with special offers and incentives, never quote prices, play on their curiosity. It`s tempting to do the large houses but over the years i have found the best response from moderate households.
But remember as a relatively new starter it takes time to establish your customer base. I have spent a lot of money and time over the years on pointless adds in publications and booklets that just dont work.
For every carpet cleaner different things work it depends on the area, your confidence and quite often luck.
The one point i cant stress enough is dont spend your whole addvertising budget in one place, the big yellow pages add at several thousand pounds wont bring in the work their rep tells you it will. Lots of small precise adds placed on a regular basis has worked for me, untill this week, when it has been quite on the domestic front.
Although commercial is steady, booked a health club in for the week after next for £950.00 yesterday. I like my domestic jobs to flow though as this keeps the cash flow going.
I hope this has been of some help.
John.
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Thanks John that has been a great help.
matt
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15 inquiries a week is the minimum we should all get, which on a 5 day week is 3 jobs a day, that's is if we book every enquiry.
I get about 25 enquires and book about 18-20 of them ( working a 7 day week)
as a guess 18 come from leaflets, the other 7 are Y/Ps & existing customers.
last week the leaflet distributor ran out of leaflets and forgot to ring me so I've seen a drop in call this week, next week he is doing double.
weather, holidays, global warming, interest rates..etc..etc..etc has nothing to do with the phone not ringing
mike
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Hi Mike,
How many leaflets do you need to put out per week to get such a response from leaflets ?? My leaflets work ok but i never do anything fantastic with them, what response do you get per 1000 leaflets ??
Do you put any special offers on your leaflets ??
My leaflets are a bit out of date from when i started as i now have a T.M and are due for updating but i had them printed on a 250 gsm paper which i do find people tend to keep as i've had calls from leaflets that had been put out months before. Do you find this works for you ??
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The figure i quoted is for new enquiries only not existing customers or commercial.
john
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paul, 4000 a week EVERY WEEK!! for the past 8yrs to put this into context every home in my area has received 92 of my leaflets over the last 8yrs, I Would say 90% of my work is in a 3-4mile radius so even my existing customers get one of my leaflets every 4 weeks
my leaflet is the same as my YP ad, i posted it a few weeks ago
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crikey mike 4000 a week wish icould get that many out i would be loaded lol. So how do you go about getting so many out may i ask this is what i am trying to accomplish.
Regards
matt
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find a reliable company!!! but this is like looking for rocking horse Poo,
or 4000 leaflets will take 24hrs to deliver @ 1000/6hrs, so minimum wage for 24hrs is £120 so take on an OAP (or2) to work part time. and get them to deliver your leaflet, doing them solus will bring in a better return than I get.
do this for 1 month you will be snowed under with work, but it requires you to spend money!! which no one will do because everyone want the work, but they don't want to put their hand in there pockets
everyone moans about how slow it is and how they never known it sooo bad ::) ::) ::) blaming everything else for their own lack of success, its all sh*te.
Mike
I used to have a couple of illegal immigrants do it, but that's another story ;)
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agree with you there Mike...spending money on advertising is a bi stumbling blok for many small businesses because it is always a gamble...
...have I got a reiable, trustworthy leaflet distributor...?
...is my ad good enough...?
...am I pricing enough...?
...am I dropping leaflets in the right areas...?
the ONLY way to find out is to spend the money and gauge the results...but it represents a big outlay for what may be a small response...this puts many people off.
BUT...I believe a good leafet dropped consistently in your desired working areas isthe only way to keep the work coming in...
It takes bottle to spend...but we really need to if we want the work
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4/5000 a week is about right for an owner operator, only if you have a list of previous customers as long as the m4, to suggest a newcomer like matt spend near on £800 per month for solus advertising, is nothing short of suicide for him, my opinion is he has come into the carpet cleaning game rather late, there are only so many customers out there, most of these already have cleaners they trust and will not choose matt just because his flyer lands on their doorstep, poor advice for a newby in this current climate, there are far cheaper ways to grow your bussiness, safer ways to. Ten years ago i would of agreed with mike's comments, and maybe gone a step further, with a bite off more than you can chew and chew like hell attitude, but now, with so many trying to break into this game, i would be very cautious Matt, grow your bussiness slowly and surely within your budget and capabilities, not everyone gets such a great response from these flyers as mike, he is obviousely very fortunate in his particular area.
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there is not much more a newbie can do...there is only so many customers and if, as you say, they already have a cleaner they trust, then how can a newbie get their custom?
I would not advise a yellow pages ad in the first year of trading.
Leaflets are the cheapest way to get the start of a database in place.
Where I live, I have never received a flyer for carpet cleaning in 16 years... :o
Go for the leaflets...get a good distributor and expect 1% response///each 1000 leaflets should give you about 10 enquiries...hopefully.
Turn these into jobs and you are building a database of customers.
NOT bad advise at all... ;)
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Hi guys, Thanks for the replys. Jimmy may i ask where the £800 a month comes from? Jimmy may i also ask you what these other ways of growing my business would be? and why you are keeping all your info disclosed if your local to me why not get in touch can't see how i would be such a threat to your business sorry for all the questions lol
matt
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1% ::) ::) yea in fairyland!! you should be lucky to get 3 per 1000, that's why you need to be putting out 4-5000. If i got 1% I'd get 40 customers a week
Jimmy why is it suicide to spend £800, is everyone that skint that £800 is there life savings.
but that's the problem, no one will spend that £800 they would prefer to moan about how quite it is,
Mike
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Am i missing something here guys where is £800 coming from?
matt
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£800 per month sounds too cheap if you are doing 4-5,000 solus leaflets per week.
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Matt I think the £800/mth is coming from my 'employ an OAP for £125 a week' plus cost of 20,000 lealfets although it works out about £650 a month.
Mike
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£800 is a realistic figure for the printing and 'reliable' solus distribution of 20,000 leaflets per month in south west england,FACT, if you find reliable distribution for those quantities, i would suggest that you cant, but you can try :-).
Mike £800.00 per month, i believe, of course i may be wrong, but i doubt it, is not within the means of young Matt, if as you say he gains the required response from his drops then fine, but, what if he doesn't, living and trading in his part of the world for the past 15 years, i already know he won't. OF COURSE , NOTHING VENTURED , NOTHING GAINED i hear you cry, Mike you always are very off the cuff on these forums, thats fine for you, you are established and very very good at what you do, for some £800 goes a long way to keeping their life in order, if you had no response or very little from 2 mail drops you would not have to worry so much, your experience, savvy, and previous customer base would see you through, i would suggest it is not quite the same situation for matt and others on this forum, who sit back in wonder as to how you do it, as you well know mike it aint just your leaflet drops that make you a success story, or at least i hope not, otherwise life would be far to easy wouldn't it!
Matt homenclean has given you some good advice in one of his previous posts, i would echo that, as far as my profile being hidden, thats not correct, its just not filled out, like so many others on these boards, i have nothing to lose if you dont listen to my advice, so i really dont care if you do or dont, but i can tell you, IT IS GOOD ADVICE, if you choose to take it so be it, if not, well then all i can say is good luck. As an experiment if youve got a credit card book your first 20,000 drop on monday with another 20,000 to follow, you have to pay for them up front you know, and if they dont work your money is gone, for good, come back here afterwards and tell us all how well your mail shots have done, i am very confident you will be licking your wounds after the first 20,000 begging for advice on how to stop the contract for the next 20,000 going out, or maybe you should wait another month til the sun shines every day, or maybe 2 months so it really is summer, or how about christmas, thats supposed to be a great time of year to leaflet....NOT ANY MORE IT ISNT, these are all things you must find out, can you afford to chuck £1600 down the drain on some guy called mikes say so, if you are you shouldn't be in business. What works for one doesnt work for others, if it did, this carpet & upholstery cleaning game would be far to easy and we would all have work coming out of our ears and be millionares, we are not, thats a fact too.Anyway whatever you decide to do, good luck mate, at the end of the day you have to decide the right way to go. see you around!
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your in a frachise arent you, lol. you got a chip about somthing.
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Jimmy, you might be right, i am a bit flippant with my comments but I believe what i write. I have done leaflets for a long time and I know how many new customers they bring in, this is new customers so this has nothing to do with how long I've been established or anything I do, its purely a response from a leaflet. this leaflet could have come from me or a person who had been in business 1 week, it is the leaflet that is creating work not the person sending it.
My leafleting is more successful than most because I have a good distributor and I have a compound effect from all the leafleting I've done over the years. But even a new starter can get a good result if he does enough leaflets and get them reliably delivered.
but as I'm sure you think, this is easy for me too say, I ain't skint ;)
Mike
ps If anyone wants to ignore my advice or take it that's fine,..... but in the end if you don't want peoples advise or opinions then don't ask for it (or post on these forums).
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Here here Mike
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Its good advice Mike at least you give it, Jimmy seems to critise advice but dont give any out himself.
It need not be a gamble, the only gamble is weather they actully go through letter boxs, if you can be sure they will- it'll work. Oh one other thing, charge enough to cover costs, this is not for the cheapo's!
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Mike...1% return on enquiries is normal isn`t it?
Whether you turn these into paying jobs is another thing...then again...I can put out 1000 leaflets a day and I never get 10 enquiries a day... ??? You may have something there if you are talking about an immediate response but maybe over the next month or so...1% may be realistic...I hope... ;D
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Yes I agree, in this business you advertise and spend on like a major national company to keep a one man band fairly busy (£1000.00+ per month)
Some people forget that this is a very struggling industry, its certainly not like pluming where by you whisper your occupation in a pub and you have people queuing at your door.
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I followed Mike's advice about leafleting don't put out as many as him only 2000 a week and get great results.Some customers hang onto the leaflets or have had two/ three leaflets over a 4-5 month period then they ring.
Responses vary leaflets put out last week might not bring results until 3 or 4 weeks.I've had customers ring me from leaflets that were delivered in November with the special January offers on.
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no, 1 or 2 per thousand is realistic.
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On the subject of leaflets what is best good quality leaflets or cheap leaflets?
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My brother runs a marketing company doing work for medium sized companies. He does the following prices. He will have his own website live in about a week.
Full colour glossy on both sides. 135gm or 250gm paper the same price. 135gm is better for leaflets as it bends well with having to crease it.
A5 135 or 250gm 10,000 £169
A6 135 or 250gm 10,000 £98
A4 135 or 250gm 10,000 £269
prices are for design, print and delivery. No Vat.
His artwork is superb and I have had my latest batch from him and they look the dogs.
Let me know if anyone interested.
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http://www.cannprint.com/html/prices.asp#a5leaflets
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no, 1 or 2 per thousand is realistic.
Yes your almost bang on there Chris. If you aim for around 1500 leaflets that would usually attract 1 job.
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Jimmy i find it abit strange why you don't fill out any of your profile. Do you work for a francise or are you self employed if you don't mind me asking? Also how local to me are you? My local compitition doesn't bother me one bit so why should it bother you so much? where ever you are based you are going to have compitition its not the end of the world!
But oh well if you want to keep yourself to yourself then thats your choice thanks for the advice!
matt
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if we look at 15000 leaflets at about £200.00 to print...and 1500 leaflets per job...that is a return of 1 job per £20.00 of leaflet costs...10 jobs......which isn`t bad.
Obviously take into account distribution costs at about £30/1000.
10 jobs at average £100 per job...£1000.00 of work
£200.00 to print
£450.00 to deliver
£650.00 overheads for £300.00 profit..that seems a lot to me... ???
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Steve it would be crap if your figure were right, look at my figures
20,000 @ £99
delivery @ £260
= £359
this will produce 50 jobs @ £100 so that's £5,000 so take away £359 leaves a £4651 profit :D :D :D
amazing what you can do with some creative numbers ;)
but mine is closer to the mark than yours!
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hers where i got my 20,000 @ £99
www.leafletsforyou.co.uk/Priceguide2007.pdf (http://www.leafletsforyou.co.uk/Priceguide2007.pdf)
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Mike how does 4000 leaflets cost £120 to deliver but 20000 leaflets cost £260?
matt
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let me work it out I might have got my maths wrong :D :D
it cost me £13/1000 to have my lealfet delivered so 10,000 cost me £130 & 20,000 cost me £260
nope I was right £260 :D
where did you get 4000 @ £120 from?
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mike, this is a serious question, i'm not being funny but after 8 years and this amount of leaflets why do you need to still leaflet, i would have thought that you would be snowed under with repeat and referral work, this is assuming you are a one-man-band, if you have a team of a dozen out there, apologies
colin
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find a reliable company!!! but this is like looking for rocking horse Poo,
or 4000 leaflets will take 24hrs to deliver @ 1000/6hrs, so minimum wage for 24hrs is £120 so take on an OAP (or2) to work part time. and get them to deliver your leaflet, doing them solus will bring in a better return than I get.
This is what you wrote in your previous post. Mike how the hell do you get someone to deliver leaflet at £13 per 1000 no one could afford to do that? You also mention the national minimum wage, at the rates you have now given me it would work out that you pay your delivery person £2.16 per hour?
I'm not understanding your figures at all mate ???
Was also kind of wondering the same thing as cbt no offence meant by any of this by the way just trying to make sense of it.
regards
matt
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Mars bars are the biggest selling confectionery but still do £5million worth of advertising Coco-Cola are the worlds biggest selling soft drink but spend £20million.
but in reality, all these people who say once you been in business for 8-12-15 years you don't need to advertise because you have a database of existing customers' its not true
you need to constantly seek new customers.
this is my last post in this topic.
Mike
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matt you posted while I was typing so I'll answer.
I don't pay £13 for solus delivery it goes out with a newspaper so that's why it £13/1000
like I said I'm not posting any more on this subject, it'll never end
Mike
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Mike you sure :D
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sorry mike i didnt mean to upset you its just when you where on about getting an oap or two to deliver your leafles at the national min wage i thought thats what you done yourself. I think this is where the confusion was coming from? But if this was the case then steve k may have a point not sure if his figures were correct but if you were paying someone to deliver leaflets for you at a higher cost then it could work out to be quite expensive.
matt
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mike , you are correct you must keep advertising, even after 8,12 or whatever years, but as for the rest of your comments, i believe them to be totally misleading, £13/1000 for newspaper delivery, at least 1/3 of those wont arrive , you should know this already, (so leave them out of your figures if you wish them to be considered anything like accurate) at their destination, really mike what you are doing is disgraceful, blatently misleading a young lad just starting out, if he and anyone else is sat here believing all of what you say , then god help them, and matt why so flippent, my profile has given you my name , what more do you seek, no i do not work for a franchise, i am no more than 20 miles away from you, local competition is bothering you, thats why you are sat on your arse wishing you were carpet cleaning but hanging on to however many other jobs it is you do to keep yourself ticking over, competition does not bother me at all matt, if you think you are competition to me i suggest you think again, or otherwise as mike has suggested, put your money where your mouth is and go and get the work, as mike and his crop of disciples up north have already told you, it really is that easy.goodnight and good luck.
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hers where i got my 20,000 @ £99
www.leafletsforyou.co.uk/Priceguide2007.pdf (http://www.leafletsforyou.co.uk/Priceguide2007.pdf)
Thats ideal if they manage to get them printed and sent out to you instead of f*cking you about for 4 weeks promising delivery that never happens (as well as sending out business cards with spelling mistakes on :P)
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Have had a quick look through this thread and am extremely suprised that no one actually delivers flyers them selves. I have been doing this for years. I put out 200 per day before work. I start around 6am and then go to my first job.
My response is extremely good. I get 5 jobs per k and and in the past have tried a lot of distribution companies and have only got 1 job if lucky. DON'T TRUST ANYONE BUT YOURS TRULY!!
Will
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will this is how we started, and we still do it now, even in between jobs we will mail the street we are in and maybe a couple of others before the next job, i am sure homen clean referred to this also in his previous post to matt, delivering them ourselves we get the same response as you, via free papers , royal mail, or distribution company, less than 1 per thousand, over a year if you look back,thats the real truth of the matter, its been proven time and time again, yet still, this discussion comes up every now and then, i guess some guys will just have to find out the hard way.
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jimmy 20 miles from where i don't live in crediton incase you were wondering but hey you probably already know that. So if you run such a successful carpet cleaning empire thats why i see all your vans around whereever i go is it as if. By the way i couldn't care less what my compitition do why worry about something you have no control over. Whatever you do, you will have competitors thats life. No i don't see myself as a competitor to your great empire carpet cleaning hasn't really picked up for me yet, but that is because i am building my business up slowly why do i want to throw thousands of pounds at a yellow pages add only to recieve a couple of jobs from it. So you know im not hanging onto however many jobs to see myself ticking over as you put it im lucky that i have casual work which does help me out but when your building a business from complete scratch i see that as being sensible and don't really care how you see it. I dont really understand what it is you seek from this forum, you seem to have all the answers it seems all you do is criticize other people and the information they give to try and help others on here like myself. Whats with the attitude to everybody? or is this your way of trying to help people?
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Years ago I handed over 20000 leaflets to a local free paper to be inserted into these papers and delivered to certain postcode areas that I stipulated.
Not one single enquirey !.
So got the phone book out and found at random, about 50 tel no's of residents in these areas and true to form not one of them had seen my leaflet.
I have never put any out since.
Although there must be godd and reputable drop services somewhere.
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yes matt, i do already know that, and yes you have seen our vans, you should very much care about what your competition do, and you have got control over what your competitors do to a certain extent, but certainly not if you dont care?? what a naive thing to say!?, i am not critisising anyone, especially not you, there is plenty of very good advice to be found in what i say, take the red rag from your eyes young man and look a little closer, i do not have an attitude with anybody, this is just your misinterpretation, i just tell the truth, the way it really is, if you wish to stay blinkered thats fine, i am glad you are being cautious in building your bussiness and not listening to some of the outlandish claims on these pages, the people concerned should be ashamed of themselves, as far as my empire is concerned, well thats none of your bussiness, but we are booked 4 weeks in advance and for a good reason. By the way matt, your idea about not spending all your money on a yellow page ad, thats a good idea.
Ask youself this matt, who exactly have i critisised, do you really expect me to sit here and allow a young carpet cleaning start up like you be led down the garden path from blatently inacurate bull sh-t, i am sorry but i just cant sit here and allow that to happen, especially from some guy you dont know hundreds of miles from here, so be it, believe what you like, when you fall on your arse and cant get up, maybe you will learn. I guess it's always best to make your own mistakes....SO GO AHEAD.Night all.
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Jimmy the only vans i see round my way are occasionally rainbow and chemdry so unless your run one of these francises then chances are i haven't seen you. Looks like you keep a very close eye on your competition as i aint even compitition to you and you seem to of sussed me out but then again it aint to hard really is it. If you see me around so often why not come over and introduce yourself it would be nice to meet such an insperation. Maybe your empire has taken all the work down in devon though i cant say i have ever recieved one of your leaflets?
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Guys cmon lighten up.
What do you call a Russian with 3 balls?
whodyanicabollockov!! :D
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ok matt, last reply i'm tired of this useless banter, you obviousely are a bit of a clever dick , calm down now, only kidding matt, who doesn't listen, i hope your not like this with your parents, ;) :D so i won't waste any more energy on you, regarding the van thing you are continuosely harping on about as my previous post look a little closer, when we do mail shot , which is not often, because the return is not worth the bother, which is what this thread was all about isnt that right matt???? we mail to very select areas, your area does not meet that criterea, no offence, i know how sensitive you are now from previous experience.
it is nice to be regarded as an insperation though, thanks.!!LOL
now really i must go to bed, i have a very busy week cleaning carpets and upholstery ahead.
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jimmy i aint no clever dick i don't know everything there is to know but nor have i made out that i do, that is why i go on forums like this to learn from people with more experience i know most of the stuff on here should only be taken with a pinch of salt but you can still learn a thing or to i know i have. You do seem to know it all so not sure why you would bother to waste your time only to perhaps source out who has started a cc business up within 50 miles of you. Anyhow congratulations with your success and remember next time you see me around come and say hello would be nice to put a face to your name.
matt
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really, you young ones, always got to get the last word..... ;D
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Yeah right Mike!!! ;D ;D An OAP putting out 1000 leaflets a day everyday for a week.
And not only that, 6hrs only, take an hour for lunch and snack breaks leaves the poor old slave with only 5hrs and about to do the lot!
How do you sleep you cruel man?
Matt
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Matt Lindus,
He's joking about the OAP's delivering the same as being the 3rd best looking carpet cleaner!
I think he's paying for his leaflets to go out inside another publication (newspaper) which is why the cost is relatively low. You couldnt pay someone do deliver a single leaflet for that cost wherever you are in the country!
Been watching a film tonight but this post has been more interesting so sorry if missed some key points!
All the best,
Jason.
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Some ols age pennsioners can not afford to join golf, bowls or sailing clubs to keep active.
They take on jobs at BQ or delivering Free Newspapers
I have never known an employer to pay for a lunch break.
The biggest problem is trusting your distrubtion team
Ideally you need someone with them who you can trust.
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It really depends on what service your selling we had 10000 leaflets put out with a newspaper for our wheelie bin cleaning and the response was phenomenal we actually built our round up off the back of them leaflets.We did the same with our carpet cleaning 10000 and the response was a little less successful.
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more realistic to expect to pay £35 to £45 per thousand distribution, especially for a realiable firm. your average job price will want to be £100 plus remember,
Matt, i would take no notice of Jimmy, hes clearly one of them negitive slag every one off types, funny his advice to you seems to be do nothing on the advertising front, hmmm, he like that, wonder why?
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chrisg...if thats what you really think, you are an uneducated fool, and if youve got nothing good or informative to say you should keep your mouth closed. The advice i have given to matt is REAL WORLD advice, good advice and nothing less than the complete truth, if you and certain members of this board wish to carry on living in some kind of pc generated fantasy world well you are welcome to it, just stop trying to drag others down , like matt, to your levels, it is shameful, disgraceful and wrong to give a young lad bad advice, i just hope he and other new starters can see you and others on here for what they really are.
Off to work now, to busy for any more of this crap.
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Obvously you know less than you you would like us to think.
When have i given misinformation or bad advice?
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chrisg, its been a long busy day, re-read the post, especiallly the word if....i cannot be bothered with you.
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Matt just a quick example for you, my office gave me these figures today, we have recently started another technician in hampshire, already a very busy area for us, so 4 weeks ago we bulk mail dropped 60,000 leaflets, some with the newspapers some with royal mail, as of today, we have received 2 firm bookings and 1 enquiry, now i am not saying we wont receive any more, but you can see the return, i can tell you that in the current climate, this is typical, so if your searching for real facts and figures , here they are, they make depressing reading unless you are able to sustain yourself with a bank of previous customers as we and many others can.Anyway this is my final post on this matter, i believe i have made my point quite clearly.
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current climate?
I have had a great year so far.
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2 jobs from 60,000 leaflets?
Sounds like your office is on the take or you need change your company name from Bin laden Cleaning. Because they are the only two possible reasons for such a poor response.
We get min 5 calls a thousand from our leaflets, more then this at the moment as things seem very busy.
When I started out I used to put out 500 lealflets 7 days a week myslfe with help from wife, friends and family doing even more. Any newbie who complains that they are quiet needs to be doing this and making min 20 sales calls a day.
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Dan Kennedy once commented................to get one job from a spend of $400 is something to rejoice about................but, in saying so, he was suggesting that, from that one customer, you can / should generate endless leads
Do a good job............tell your customer what a fantastic result you got and ask AT THAT MOMENT for a couple of referrals.
rob
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Thanks prodry and carpetguy 2 posative posts been out today 10 hours delivering leaflets starting to loose the will to live
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Give me a call tomorrow John and I'll see if I can help ;)
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cheers Dave i will
Thanks John
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Its all well and good banging out oodles of leaflets promising the worlds best carpet cleaning offers.
What you have to be first is a salesman and then a carpet cleaner!
99% of people like to see who they are having in their homes before they committed themselves.
unless you have a photo of yourself on every leaflet who do they know is coming.
I think they book Mike Haliday just to count his fingers :-\
The simple answer to the marketing plan is "If you put yourself in front of enough people work will surely follow".
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Provided that you don't wear a stetson and high heeled boots !!!!!!!!!!!
rob
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How else will I get the type of work I like :-*
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Too many answers to that one
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keep at it John...you seem to have everything in place to make a go of it.
Anyone who does 10 hours a day on leaflets has got to get a bit of luck...and sometimes that is what is needed.
Michael Caine said it took him 10 years to become an overnight success!
If the road ahead looks all uphill...turn and look the other way...that is how far you have come ;D ;D
I`m not a gambler but I`d put a tenner on you if you were running in the Grand National...not that you look like a horse, that is...I`m just saying... :D :D
Best of luck and good fortune John.
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its like us,we do yp Thompson local.com rag every week,doctors appointment card,surgery mag,20,000 leaflets shoild be this week,and some other adds,
its not busy on the carpet side y I have no idea :-\ am I doing any thing wrong :-\ I feel sure it does depend on areas,and yes we do plenty others :-\
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pro dry, how many leaflets do you distribute, by what means, at what cost to you, who are your competitors, if you have any real competitors in your area, what prices are you going out at, are they reasonable or just down right silly, if you are booking 5 firm jobs from every drop of 1000 leaflets , whats your average ticket, all these things have to be taken into account, are you actually running in profit etc, sorry but i dont believe you, and i never will, BUT if that is so, then i honestly congratulate you, really, although that return in time will diminish causing you then to think twice. You may not believe that time will come, but it will. As for our 60,000 drop, the timing wasnt quite right , what with the easter hols, unfortunately we had no choice because of the constraints put on by royal mail as to when they can deliver, i fully expect to book much more work from this drop now the holiday is gone, but still not at a rate of 5/1000 on a 60,000 drop, those days , unfortunately are long gone, unless of course your pricing is cheap, cheap, cheap. Any way as i said before ;D i wont post again on this, as mike said a few pages ago, the discussion will go on forever, so i'll let you all figure it out for yourselves, thats the best way. Good to see so many getting involved though.Happy cleaning.
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prodry...just looked at the prices on your website, if thats been your price list up til now, no wonder you get that response from your drops ,neither i nor our technicians will work for that, it just wouldn't be worth it.
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Its worth it to me, its helped me buy two truckmounts. I also have three companies, one has low prices (the one you are refering to) one is the high end of the market in another two towns and one is commercial cleaning and carpet cleaning.
The cheap one pays my bills, truckmount, me, my staff. The high end one pays for my holidays and my car, the commercial only company is my pension and I invest back anything I earn from it to build it up and hopefully sell it one day.
Either way I would be screwed without the the cheap one. There are two sole traders near me who both do £100 lounges, they both drive around in little vans and use Portables. Both have their vans parked on their drives at most times of the day you pass and one stacks shelve at tescos in the evening.
anyone new to the business that is going to chase high end, will need deep pockets, big adverising and be able to pay their bills independantly for the first 18 months.
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What a great thread, good advice and constructive argument from all concerned
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ummmmmmm, a post of mine seems to of gone astray, i dont know why, my mistake i guess, but what it states is this, prodry i think the way you are operating is not correct, that is if you really do charge a different price to mrs smith on her council estate as you do to mrs bucket who lives in her detached property round the corner, thats not ethical practice, i think that could be something trading standards might be interested in.
You could come seriousely unstuck , especially if mrs bucket happens to know mrs smith round the corner and doesnt tell you!!!!!! a dodgy practice at least, some might refer to that as discrimination.
We also do £100 lounges, myself and our techs watch guys like you chasing their tales like blue bottle flies all day, as d says there is two sides to every tale, i'm glad i chose my side, in a way though you have confirmed what i have said all along, if you are going to charge a proper price for a proper service, and use leaflets for your only form of advertising , you had better have deep pockets. Thanks for clearing that up prodry!!lol
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i dont think what pro-drys doing is unethical, its the same as package selling, some people only want a quick go round everything budget clean, others want all singing and dancing, drying, edges, grooming ect. clean.
2 different services for 2 different prices, i really dont think trading standards would be interested.
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chrisg it most certainly is not like package selling, as you well know, with package selling the customer chooses what service he/she wants, what a thing to say , there is no comparison, if thats the case i am a high end customer as pro dry would like to refer to me as, not that i would like that personally but, there we are, i only want to pay pro dry's low end price, because i know mrs smith in the other town.......sorry it wouldnt work, i think it smells of pork pies....certainly i would not get away with it, nor would i try, and neither would i want to.I certainly would not advise a new starter to enter into this profession with those practices, not ethical..full stop
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Nothing wrong in what you're doing P/D and it's the kind of service that almost every marketing course suggests.........and many people offer......
Basic
Silver
Gold, levels of service, or similar.
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carpetguy, thats not what it says in his post..........what he says is he has 3 different firms, 2 of which are carpet cleaning , in 2 towns he is charging higher prices because they are high end customers, in the other he charges a different price for THE SAME SERVICE, he does not mention he is offering packages to either.....packages are fine, as long as the customer has the choice...thats is not what he says he is doing......can you read and chris g read ok?????
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strange how all his prices are the same for all the areas he covers, one hell of alot of low end customers!.....colchester and surrounding, ipswich, southsuffol, clacton, frinton, horwich, chelmsford, witham, braintree, dunmow, wicham bishops, silver end, halstead, earls colne, havehill, tiptree, tolleshunts, tollesbury etc etc
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It cant be wrong to charge different prices to different people for a similar service. If it was I would be out of business in a week. Jimmy, just one question, why do you think you need deep pockets to go after high end clients? Domestically, all my clients are high end buy my choice and I dont have any form of paying advertising.
I would have thought as an expression that you need deeper pockets to leaflet drop and yello pages or any form of paying advertising.
Not that they dont work as for some it works well and others it doesnt.
Just my comment is I get my clients for free as opposed to paying for leaflets etcetera.
My thoughts on the "high end" client is you cant pay to get them in the form of y/p, leaflets, etcetera as on the whole they dont look at y/p and certainly dont read leaflets.
Anyway, most people think I am nuts the way I do business and things in general but then thats fine by me, each to their own.
Best, Dave.
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in answer to your question dave, i dont think that, pro dry does??? my comment was if your only form of advertising were flyers you better have deep pockets!
regards
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i also agree entirely with your comments about attracting so named'high end clients', they seldom look at yellow pages and/flyers, but then, yours and my idea of a 'high end'customer may not be the same as some of the other guys on here! horses for courses and all that
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Ok, sorry Jimmy. I thought you were linking high end to deep pockets. I must have misunderstood and I am certainly not looking back over the posts. Best, Dave.
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no problem dave, have a good evening.
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Tarbuck, if you are that concerned about my business pracices then report me to trading standerds.
I sleep well a night knowing that I charge someone in a council house one price and someone in farmhouse another. The person in the council house is not going to pay £100.00 (probably a day and halfs wages after tax) for us to spend 1.30hr cleaning their lounge.
As i said I have separate companies charging separate prices. My in-laws own the freehold and management on 650 holiday chalets and caravans on the east coast. And you guessed it they pay separate prices as well, for their carpet cleaning and pressure washing. We make it imposible for any competition to get in either and regular cleaning is part of their lease. Put that in your report to trading standereds.
I get my high end work and by high end I mean upper middle class and upper class clients from my in-laws, from recomendtion, and from contacts I have from being a an estate agent for a very excluse estate agency company for 5 years.
Chasing this type of work is only done this way and I do all this work myself. Cleaning their lounges is not a £50.00 job and doesnt take 1.30hr. You cannot advertise for this type of work.
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Jimmy
Can I ask who you are and what area you work in, most people on here are open about who they are and where they are located.
Sorry but to me people who dont fill out there location and real details are just not worth dealing with as its a blind converstation.
Hi Dave
Good to see your back on the Forum again. Maybe calling on you in a few days as I may need some advice on dealing with a Special location in my area.
Cheers
Neil
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Neil, not a problem. Phone any time and I will try to help out. Best, Dave.
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prodry, why on earth you think i would report you to trading standards i have no idea, you are being far to over sensitive, this is a discussion forum after all, if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen, and as far as profiles are concerned there are many , many others on here that are not filled in, chrisg for one....and sorry but if you follow the thread and others on here you would know where i am based........and so we continue
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by the way, i live in farmhouse, and i would be very pi**ed off with you if i found out you charged my mate down the road in his terrace house half the amount i paid...........
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Yes im anoymonius too, but i wouldn't critise from this postion as its unfair.
im here to offer advice ;D well till you started picking on a newbie whom you knew his identity yet you wouldn't reveal yours to him.
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Tarbuck, You live in a farmhouse, you have an office you have to ring to see what you are up to and you multiple operator. MMMMMMM.
Yet you spend your time on an iternet forum knocking others, others near to you that have never heard of you.
Where is your office? Docklands, Milan, New York?
Fill your profile in if you want to taken seriously.
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Jimmy,
Do you drive a Volkswagan and your mate down the road a Skoda?
Everyone knows they are the same car underneath. Some pay more and are happy and some pay less and are happy.
I can't understand people who get on their high horse about concepts like this. Morrisons are doing a 2 for one on pizzas at the moment, are you sitting down Jimmy, they build it in the price, yet we still feel we got a bargain. ::)
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prodry, chris g i have neither picked on or knocked anyone, least of all matt, as i am sure most sensible people reading this thread will realise, (should it be read in its entirety and correct context), and understand, yourselves on the other hand are becoming more and more confrontational when confronted by reasonable, intelligent , constructive argument, which says little for your characters, if you are their to offer advice as you say chrisg make sure its good advice, before you begin to critisice me, yourself and prodry are blatently trying to reduce what was a very constuctive thread into something other than desirable, hence i find it impossible to take either of you seriousely, i find your comments two faced and your sarcasm ugly,AND CHILDISH, nothing you have to say is constructive, why must you resort to being so confrontational it is quite reasonable to ask for an explanation to the following from you, customer a, customer b, customer a happens to be the uncle or aunt of customer b,..........customer a=farmhouse, 80/20 wool carpet, 24x15, beige, moderatley stained, £100 your so called high end......customer b=council, terrace, semi,or anything else, 80/20wool carpet, 24x15, beige, moderatley stained, £50 ,infact exactly the same as customer a except one lives 3 miles from the other and happens to be your so called low end?, i simply see a problem here that i disagree with, if you , chrisg and others find this situation perfectly acceptable, then thats fine, i know alot of people and members of the public who would be outraged at this situation, but theres no need to be an idiot about it.
Since now you have become nasty about a simple, constructive post, i will not have anything more to with it, or you for that matter good luck in your endeavors ethical or not.
2 men go to morrisons, one lives in a farmhouse, the other lives in a council house, they both pick up the exact same 'pizza' you refer to, why should the bloke in the farmhouse pay more......its the same pizza!
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If I had a pound for very time you said that was the end of your posts, I too would live in a farmhouse.
Go on gives some more......
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Jimmy
So who are you? Would add a lot more credability to your posts if we new who you are.
Most people with vast experience and a good business dont mind showing their details.
Pricing should always be variable, One to get the Job and two some customers wont go with cheap. Having the same price plan for all is crazy and just no practical.
Some will pay £100 for a lounge and some wont the skill is knowing who's who and getting the Job.
Cheers
Neil
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I can't see the point of not filling out your profile to a certian extent what do they have to hide? Maybe people should not be allowed on these forums without it, it's abit creepy when it feels like your being stalked.
I must say though i am not against people given straight no bull sxxt advice. Jimmy certainly does that and maybe then some lol. I must also agree with what he says about charging one person one thing then somone else something different makes sense to me it doesn't seem right at all and if alot of people in other industries worked like this im sure they would be shut down in no time.
Fair enough if the rooms are of different sizes then by all means but if one persons house was bigger then the other the rooms would also be bigger and the job would earn you more money anyway, but i must say i am against charging different prices between customers for the same job. Surely you shouldn't need to, set your prices and keep to them i am very happy what i go about charging my customers and they are very happy about the service and professionalism they recieve.
Jimmy as i said the other day in which i don't remember you answering my question, i don't understand your reasons for using these forums? Someone as sucessful as yourself doesn't need answers, you got all the answers, so why waste your time? im surprised you have any time to waste?
regards
matt
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Matt, this jimmy guy seems to defend you a lot, looking back on other posts he is always quick to give YOU advice? Personally i dont like someone being ambiguous either but he isnt really hurting anyone-just speaking his mind, i know i do and dont apologise for it either!! I like his style for being upfront and not caring what others say-me to a T!! lol. Would prefer someone who speaks a lot to answer some basic questions-like who he is, prices he charges, how he gets work but hey jus roll with it. Life is too short to have a coronary over a screen with a bit of text on it-in front of you fella-we all do our own thing and is it really that upsetting?
I have had loads of $hite on ere but laugh at it as i couldnt care less as i know that what i do works!! employ a few people, have a few businesses and laugh at most things!! Life shouldnt be that serious where it winds ya up mate. Listen to what this fella says and take heed what you will. Its your head to take in what you feel is necessary!!
Damian 8)
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guys
get yourself some insurance like contract work or some kind off sideline. so you never put yourself in a position that you can pay your bills.
respect
Ian Harper
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Lighten up James..................if you're as confrontational with your staff, or clients, you must be a very unpopular and unhappy puppy !
A discussion, is an exchange of views, from which, hopefully, all parties will learn something.
Confrontation, is a challenge, which will only result in either THE LOUDEST or the MOST STUBBORN getting their way....................not winning...................but getting their way !
A bit like bullying
The reality of pricing, at least in my case, is that every job should be priced separately, for obvious reasons and it's highly probable, that someone in a large expensive house will be charged more, because.............
The likeliehood, is they will have more expensive carpets, which will require more time spent on them and will want better products, which cost more.
Whereas, in the less well off areas, people will often be " price concious " and simply want a quick " freshen up " clean and often emphasys the" tracking only" areas and " don't bother to move anything" in the hope of keaping the price as low as possible.
This is a generalisation and not the status quo, but I'm sure it applies to many operators.
There have been many threads on here and it's stated in most marketing materials, that targeting "high end " clients will result in the opportunity to charge MORE FOR YOUR SERVICES.
Obviously.............to give exactly the same service, but charge different prices would be unwise, but I'm not sure that's what's being done, certainly not in my case.
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Jimmy
I'm sure you skimmed my post and missed the point rather than not being able to grasp the concept of 2 for 1 offers. ;)
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I think some good points have been made by both prodry and jimmy. I advertise in both the yellow pages and Thompsons and i also use leaflets and reminder cards. At the moment i am booked 2 weeks up front with two vans. It takes a lot of work as i'm always sending out letters and getting recomendations from customers if poss. I charge for two different services and find that most people in council areas or those who cant afford my higher price will go for the lounge priced at £40 which is just a clean, and my higher end of the work, my customers pay £70. The difference between the price is that i will dry using a blower, use a deoderiser and rinse with a acid rinse.
I have found by doing this that i get a steady flow of work. I also get plenty of work from my high end, who may have money who then recomend me to family of friends who may not be as well off. Some people may read this and criticise me, but this works for me and i get plenty of work, and my customers are happy.
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http://www.breezecarpetcare.co.uk/
or
http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/
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Hi ian, whats those two web addresses for lol have i missed something?
regards
matt
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wow....why the arguements? evryone has their own way of running their own business. lol
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reading this thread from start to finish, i think you guys are nearly all crazy or cannot read, jimmy only seems to be trying to help matt, and i think his advice is sound, alot of you have mis understood what he has said about prices to high end or low end customers, from what i see written all he has said is that you cannot charge a higher or lower price for the SAME service just cos of where a bloke lives, i agree with that, if you are offering a better service to your high end custys then thats great, which is wot he says, stop giving the guy such a hard time, he seems to be the only bloke on here who knows what he is talking about, still wot do i know , i'm just a newbie.
cheers
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I feel this post has gone off the thread a bit, i think the original idea was, is there a down turn in trade, not just for cc's, i think, but from what i can see, the wider economy. Interest rates up again today, could this have an impact?
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So which will save people more money, cleaning or buying new carpets?
How come some people are booked up while others have very few jobs?
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http://www.breezecarpetcare.co.uk/
or
http://www.worldofclean.co.uk/
Ian is this your guess?
Matt
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because some people tell little porky pies mike lol ;)
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the interest rate has gone up again today based on consumer spending being too high, perhaps we are looking for a scapegoat!
Sometimes we get lazy and don't do the stuff we are supposed to do to get work.
Shaun
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Thankyou Shaun:
Nail hit firmly on the head.
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Its easy to find scapegoats, easy to find reasons why we dont get wok.
Funny but if I am not cleaning I leaflet
Funny but if I leaflet the phone rings
Funny but if the phone rings I quote
Funny but if I quote I get work
Funny but If I dont work I leaflet
One day when I've survived long enough the phone will keep ringing and I will not have to leaflet!
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well you say that phillip but re-read some of the pages on this post and you will see even though mike h has been in this game for a no of years he still has to leaflet alot.
So question is do you ever come to a point were you no longer have to leaflet, i would like to think so but the truth of the matter is im not sure?
matt
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NO
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As I have said many times I have never used a leaflet in my life other than informative ones I give my customers whilst on site...
so in answer to your question Phillip.. Yes... providing all the rest of the service is in place.
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I never cease to be amazed, done two quotes today, got both jobs, from leaflets delivered 5 and 9 weeks ago, just checked the areas. If people hang on to my leaflets for so long then I do not have to leaflets that area again.
Hopefully two more happy customers prepared to book repears cleans and also recommend friends and family, reducing my need to leaflet.
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Yes Derek but you started what 30 odd years ago when England was a very different place. Im sure you used some sort of marketing ie. yellow pages etc to get work and not only referrals.
Todays market is very different and for new and young businesses and even businesses going longer but who want to grow need more than referrals to survive.
If I only relied on previous customers to come back to me and refer me to their friends then Id still be using a portable ;D
Mark
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whats wrong with portables, even with your BIG truck mount, you still cant do without one! get over yourself.You obviousely dont get many referals or repeat work. Must be that damn truck mount.
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CALM DOWN......I'M ONLY KIDDING!..SRI LOL
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Mark
It wasn't so very different......plus people have more revenue available to them today than 30 years ago
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Your always need new custies. Sad but true.
Even after twenty years regulars will not keep you going.
Remember we need upwards of 5 jobs per week.
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yes all true statements!30 years ago there was no woody bloody floors :P
its very hard now to start out :-\
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Terry
I don't think it's any tougher. Thirty years ago, there were low price adverts around and advertising costs, were pro rata, higher than now.
Lami' floors have an effect, no doubt, but every house I've ever been in, has sofas and chairs ! Also, there has been a massive increase in private house building over the past three decades.
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yes true,there just seems to be so many cc at it :o ::)
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As a supplier I see a cross section of the market. I can say that at the moment a lot of cleaners are quiet. However some of my customers are busy all of the time, they obviously have some quiet periods but on the whole they are constantly busy. Why, because they have got there marketing right. Whats more telling is they aren't the cheapest either.
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derek bolton
your post
Mark
It wasn't so very different......plus people have more revenue available to them today than 30 years ago
well it was different then lol
darren
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Darren
Touche.. ;D....Yes I suppose you are correct...but there is certainly more disposable income these days....many people have several houses....there seems to be more letting agencies et al
Terry has hit a rather significant nail on the head..there are certainly more people coming into the industry
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Good post John Kelly.
I think there is more money around now, however it is far harder to start.
20 years ago there was not even a deadicated 'carpet & upholstery' cleaning section in the Y/P as there was not enough to advertise in it, as the numbers grew Y/P decided it justifis its own section, even then most towns only had 1 or 2 pages of C/Cers, now it more like ten pages.
The market is a bit flooded, but it should leval its self out as companies drop out and give up, that is if new ones are not starting as fast as there droping out.
We lose quite a bit from hire machines and vaxs too. Especially the rug doctor most recently with its high profile advertising, i've had many customers say they used them, never satisfied with the results though of course.
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im not going round pushing rubbish in peoples doors never have never will would rather stop in the house and come on here ;D
i keep four cleaners going all year just tought one little paper add and custys we had for years ;D
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Morning Susan
How big an area do you cover, as it's quite an achievement, to keep four operators working all year round, unless you have weekly, or monthly contracts.
When we were in the high volume business, we had adverts in four papers, covering about one and a half million population and this kept the phone ringing.
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Morning Susan
How big an area do you cover, as it's quite an achievement, to keep four operators working all year round, unless you have weekly, or monthly contracts.
When we were in the high volume business, we had adverts in four papers, covering about one and a half million population and this kept the phone ringing.
we cover 65 mile each way here and at one stage i was in 5-6 papers but dont anymore im not paying them silly bills anymore
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When I started nearly 28 years ago, in my area the majority of people didnt know you get your carpets professionally cleaned, the few that were aware were disappointed, with the then, rapidly resoiling shampoo systems that were used. The existing market was very small and you had to go out and inform them to get the work. They werent going to be looking for a service that they didnt know existed. Today its different, now they know, their problem now is which one to choose. I dont think its as hard to get going nowadays, even with the hard floors the existing market is massive. You have to pursue all avenues of marketing your service, especially in those early days, just sticking an ad in the paper isnt going to do it alone, and leaflets have to be good or they get binned and thay also have to be delivered.
Dave.