Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Sir Squeaky on April 16, 2007, 06:53:15 pm
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Finally sorted out a decent deal on a van today.
Yet another day off, and a lot of driving, but worth it.
To start with I tried the Nissan/Renault dealer at Newport, and the best they could offer me on Primastar was £282 p/m with a £5,200 "balloon" payment at the end. :(
Didn't seem too good, so I went off to Acorn Leasing in Cardiff and they offered my a Renault Trafic (same van basically) at £258 p/m with a £4,400 balloon.
Not only that, but he threw in the electric pack and air conditioning!
...and...they lent me a van until then so I could go to work!
I said it would have to be big enough to fit my ladder in.(4 days trad work won't hurt me, at least I'll be earning).
Should be £50 per day hire, but he gave me 7 days for £100!
I should have gone to this company right from the start. They were so helpful.
Trouble is, it's the world's largest Sprinter van!
It won't even go half the places I need to.
I'll never turn it round. ;D
I'll post a pic in a minute, you'll laugh!
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Squeeky
how many years at £258 .00 /month
are those payments including tax
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Yep, that's all in.
It's 48 months, but I expect to trade it for a new one in 36, as is the norm before mot.
Here's the hire van. ;D
Not bad for a phone picture I think.
God it's hard work to manoevre, it's like a limo, you have to take corners wide.
Lorry drivers flash you in when overtaking too. ;D
That's the Escort behind, look at the difference!
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LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL.
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Woot! Way to go Squeaky!
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I've got 3yr old scudo coming squeaks, and there's you gonna be drivin' round in a new 'un!
Have you given any thought to the livery of this squeaks mobile.
I gave my ideas to signs express and they havn't gotten back to me yet, but I understand it's about £200.
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Its a window-less camper van Squeeks ;D
glad to hear you are sorted
the world is now your oyster Rog
best of luck for the future :)
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A couple of months ago we leased a new shape transit over 4 years fully paid up at £259 + vat a month, at the end of the lease you sell it to a "third party" for a £1 and the "third party" then owns the van. Fully paid up means no balloon payment.
We've used Roy at Buy'n'drive for our last few vans.
Cheers,
Huw.
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Still cant believe you've gone down the wfp route squeaky, even getting a new van for it.
Be honest would you go back to trade and how have your customers taken to it? At one time you mentioned that they never would. Is this still true?
Steve
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I don't think some of them would have liked it, and I may still get a few moans when I'm around next time.
What I did was make them all feel sorry for me, by explaining my painful injury caused by years of scrubbing and carrying ladders. ;D
"It's the only way I could continue to serve you, and now you'll have lovely clean frames too." ;)
No problems so far, but depends whether I've done all good jobs...
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A couple of months ago we leased a new shape transit over 4 years fully paid up at £259 + vat a month, at the end of the lease you sell it to a "third party" for a £1 and the "third party" then owns the van. Fully paid up means no balloon payment.
We've used Roy at Buy'n'drive for our last few vans.
Cheers,
Huw.
Thats a good deal. How much deposit? Is it unlimited milage? Servicing included?
Thanks
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It's without maintenance, 3 payments up front as deposit, you can do as many miles as you like because at the end of the 4 years you own the van.
Cheers,
Huw.
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Don't think it's servicing too. ???
Forgot to ask to be honest. :-[
3 months payments in deposit £780-odd.
10000 miles limited I think, but seeing as I only travel 6 or 7 miles for my furthest job, I only do about 80 miles a week tops.
What's that? 4,000-odd a year?
It'll be traded in with about 15K on the clock, it'll be worth a bit!
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VGS - If your anywhere near Manchester, i can do your Livery for you.
Drop me an email if you want, same go's for anyone else who needs vehicle livery
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It's without maintenance, 3 payments up front as deposit, you can do as many miles as you like because at the end of the 4 years you own the van.
Cheers,
Huw.
That is a good deal!! Is it a short wheel base, can you add extras?
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I've often wondered about leasing vehicles, can you line them or protectacote them etc, when fitting your wfp stuff.
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I was told you could by renault.
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If you went for a deal like seerclean you could!!
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nice one! hope it goes ok for you, heard you had a few problems ;)
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You could put your Escort van in the back of that and still do WFP instead of ladders ;D just a silly thought ;)
Best of luck Rog.....
Bazz...
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Tell you what Bazz, you ain't far wrong. ;D
If it wasn't for the wheelarch lumps inside I reckon it would fit.
Now for a week working trad again, and trying not to take the barge down small lanes. ;D
Some people will have to wait until I've got a smaller vehicle.
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Rog im in my 4th month wfp and i was craping myself the first month thinking i was going to lose a lot of work coz of wfp but its going the other way now.
Ive lost 5 up till now but ive gained 17 new ones coz of wfp so im feeling alot better about the change now..
Bazz...
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You must put up your prices Rog...vital, you've undersold yourself for years, you now have the perfect opportunity to increase your prices...
Well done on the van front too!
Not that I want to say I told you so! ::)
You will have a few other prices to to contend with too, no doubt you will line the floor with Protectacote, which shoud be fine for you as you won't be having things rolling around in the back, if you did I'd say go the route I did and use fibreglass, much harder wearing than protectacote (or is that kote?).
Your tank is now going to be small for the van, at some point you'll need to upgrade to a larger one.
You'll be saving up for signage too, trust me, it's a must, well worth the cost.
No more skiving off early on a friday for you my boy!
Oh, and why not slap your tank in the hire van?
A bit risky I suppose, but a new van will have anchor points you'll be able to ratchet it down to.....maybe not :-X
Well done though! Can't wait to see the van!
Ian
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hi nice van been running round in bangers last few years to tight to pay out for tidy van u have opened my eyes ps what do u mean by 4400 ballon payment sorry to act a bit thick but this forum is the only good advice iv had in all the years iv been cleaning ps watch the corners
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Ian, no point putting the tank in the Sprinter, it's been plywooded over, and the anchor points aren't accessable.
Main problem is it's way too big to take down anyone's drive in Brockwier etc... ;D
I'd have to park it somewhere out on the road (probably miles away!) and walk with the ladder.
I'm going to have to do somewhere else this week!
I don't know if I can put that coating in the van, and if I can it needs to be done in one day including all the fitting out.
I can't afford more than one more day off when it arrives.
I can't see I'll need a bigger tank.
I'll be able to totally fill it now, and surely 400L is more than enough.
Main problem is the hoses were cut to fit the pump very near to the tank, and I'm not sure it will be...
I guess it'll all have to be worked out in a new layout. :-\
I'm sure you'll be able to help though. :)
Cheers.
Oh, and Tacky...a balloon payment is a final payment to own the van, but I'll have the equity of the van to put it in for a new one.
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Hey Squeaky! :)
Congratulations! If you're gonna change over to WFP, best thing to do is treat yourself to a new van eh? ;)
At the end of the agreement, do you have the option of giving the van back and starting another lease instead of the balloon payment?
Chris
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I guess you just posted that after me, and it's sort of answered above!
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I did! Thanks :)
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Squeeky you can play chicken in that van with cars coming the other way between parked cars and never have to pull in! I know because I drive a high top short wheel base Iveco daily and they're built like trucks. I never lose at playing chicken by the way! ;D Forgot to mention i drive down some of the tiniest country lanes and give the grocco's (tourists) a nightmare when they have to reverse a long way back up a lane ;D
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It's bloody scary on small roads.
It's like a short wheelbase HGV!
I've driven all sorts , but I don't think I've ever driven anything longer and with less visibilty than this.
On the keyfob it says "Sprinter ELWB"
That's Extra Long Wheel Base!
It should say Winnebago. ;D
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Hope I catch you for a peek at this beastie before you get your van proper ;D
Protecting your floor in some manner is vital Rog, you really should make time for it.
The Protectacote way is the simplest, everything in your van will be static, so the floor won't be subject to high wear, so it would be perfect for you, and easy to do too.
I'm wondering if the reason why your pump cycles and mine doesn't is because the entire hosereel is above the pump, meaning that if you only have say 20 odd metres of hose pulled out, the pump is still having to 'lift' as against 'push' the water through 80 metres of hose before it drops to below the level of the pump?
That is the only differrence between our current setups, we have the identical pumps, identical hoses and jetted brushes, I can't believe that an identical pump can vary by such an enormous degree in operation :-\
And yes, I'll help you in whatever way I can...
Ian
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Yep, that's all in.
It's 48 months, but I expect to trade it for a new one in 36, as is the norm before mot.
Here's the hire van. ;D
Not bad for a phone picture I think.
God it's hard work to manoevre, it's like a limo, you have to take corners wide.
Lorry drivers flash you in when overtaking too. ;D
That's the Escort behind, look at the difference!
Blimey. That's a pretty long wheelbase.
Did you go for the longer body on the Trafic van? I think you can have load lengths of 2.4 and 2.8 metres. Doesn't sound a lot of difference but I do wish I had gone for the longer one.
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Nope, got the shorter one which I wanted.
I want to be able to turn around in rural areas and get in and out of tight drives.
Also the more compact one looks nicer.
I've got an idea to avoid waterproofing.
I'm have some sort of big long tub to keep the brushes and poles in.
Then I'll also dangle the end of the hosereel in it when not in use.
Providing there's no leaks they're the only sources of drips.
Then all I do is empty it each day...easy. ;)
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squeeky, may i ask why you have gone for that size van if you only intend to stick with 400ltr set up? you could have had a brand new fiat doblo cargo (730kg payload) for about half of what you are paying now.
tony
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squeeky, may i ask why you have gone for that size van if you only intend to stick with 400ltr set up? you could have had a brand new fiat doblo cargo (730kg payload) for about half of what you are paying now.
tony
I'm not gonna do Squeaky's talking for him because his reasons might be different from mine. I did something like that because I wanted room to grow if needed without having to change the van.
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You could put your Escort van in the back of that and still do WFP instead of ladders ;D just a silly thought ;)
Best of luck Rog.....
Bazz...
Hey. How about using the Escort as a trolley system? ;D
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It would probably fall apart. ;D
Shiner, you did answer correctly for me.
I'm fine with 400L now, but what if one day I do need more?
With that size van it's more than I'll ever need.
Besides, I want a nice comfy solid van, not a rattly little Fiat with electrical problems.
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was only looking out for you squeek, you seem to be falling for "all the hype". it wasn't that long ago you couldn't even afford to pay your tax bill, now you have 250 quid a month extra to pay out & higher running costs.
tony
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Hi Squeaky.
Your doing the right thing with the new van ;D, well done mate, you will see.
400ltrs is more than enough, i never use more than 350ltrs on a 8hr day, i have triggers on my poles that Gaz was always going on about, they are great & save loads of water.
It was mentioned about your rates, put them up, in my oppinion you sell yourself short. You need to realize your worth more & you also have to maintain your system & van.
Macc
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was only looking out for you squeek, you seem to be falling for "all the hype". it wasn't that long ago you couldn't even afford to pay your tax bill, now you have 250 quid a month extra to pay out & higher running costs.
tony
I still can't afford my (now double) taxbill.
I've was off work for 5 weeks.
I want a reliable van so I can work every day, make more money with wfp, and pay everything off and still live ok.
Yes it'll take a while, but I'll get there.
This time next year I'll be debt free and laughing. ;)
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It would probably fall apart. ;D
Shiner, you did answer correctly for me.
I'm fine with 400L now, but what if one day I do need more?
With that size van it's more than I'll ever need.
Besides, I want a nice comfy solid van, not a rattly little Fiat with electrical problems.
Macc is saying that 400 litres a day is more than enough for him. Most of the time, it's more than enough for me too. However, I do get the odd day when I need to do a few first cleans and find that I use more than 400. My record was about 700 litres in a day on my own. The job was large. It was wall to wall glass. It was filthy. I probably could have got away with less than 700 but I wanted to be sure as it was only a few days after some complaints on other jobs.
I think a big difference may be that Macc uses a trigger and I don't so a lot can depend on your work method. I have an 800 litre tank in my Trafic van (it's the 2.9 tonne version) so it's not too critical for me to keep my usage down. If I had a smaller tank in the van, I suppose I would find ways to keep the usage down more.
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was only looking out for you squeek, you seem to be falling for "all the hype". it wasn't that long ago you couldn't even afford to pay your tax bill, now you have 250 quid a month extra to pay out & higher running costs.
tony
I still can't afford my (now double) taxbill.
I've was off work for 5 weeks.
I want a reliable van so I can work every day, make more money with wfp, and pay everything off and still live ok.
Yes it'll take a while, but I'll get there.
This time next year I'll be debt free and laughing. ;)
I took a similar view to you in the end Rog. I realised that to earn better money (and start repaying my debts), I would need to borrow more first. Borrowing money to find a way out of debt is usually flawed logic. However, where WFP is concerned, I believe that it is an exception to that rule.
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My "rattly little (Fiat) van with electrical problems" - as squeaks puts it ;D - is fine for me and my 400L. £179 a month/£2000 "balloon"/3yr warranty 45mpg on start/stop driving and I can drive at car speeds legally.
Personally I wouldn't touch a Renault with a barge-pole - but each to his own!
If I wanted bigger it'd be the Scudo/Expert/Dispatch - for 650L/one operator - maybe there's a deal to be had as they have just changed models?
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Personally I wouldn't touch a Renault with a barge-pole - but each to his own!
This is my first Renault. It needed a gearbox change at 39,000miles (just inside the warranty).
Although it's been OK since then, such a major problem at relatively low mileage has left me not trusting the van.
It may well be that no large problems develop between now (52,000miles) and when I sell it on (c. 90,000miles) but the feeling that the current gearbox may also only do 39,000miles does occupy my thoughts too much on a bad day.
I doubt that I will buy another.
I quite like largish vans so maybe it's a Transit next time or maybe Toyota will have come out with one as good as the Hiace.
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My bro. had a bad experience recently with a late model Renault car (he's a self employed photocopier engineer) - bits literally dropping off! Made of cheese he reckons.
Round here I know four w/c with Scudo/Experts - all like'em.
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I agree with you about Renault cars Malc, they're rubbish, indeed all french cars.
However, the Traffic/Vivaro/Primastar is a joint multinational venture with the best bits from Renault/Vauxhall/Nissan.
From what I've read and heard, once they're sold they don't come back.
Look how many are on the road...they can't all be wrong.
I wouldn't touch a Fiat/Citreon for £10 though.
All the plastic bits fall off and and the electrics pack up.
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OMG! Squeaky as a white van man ;D ;D
Well done squeeks I hope it all goes well for you, like you said give it a year and you will be the one laughing all the way to the bank.
Good luck for the future. ;)
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Roger
As you'll be using ladders for a short while - wouldn't they fit inside?
Mind you, looks like you could fit half your house in it.
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Oh Ross. ;D
Yes, I deliberately hired a big one to fit ladders in.(I thought I said that?)
I spent the working trad today.
Although it seemed like hard work I had a reasonable day, and it's nice to be earning.
You're right though, there's not much won't fit inside it.
The ladders go in with about 4ft to spare. :o
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when i read your post headlining "new van coming soon" i didnt realise you put three together mate!!!
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p.s. the doblo cargo won van of the year 2006. ;D
tony
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i got a nissan primastar of vans direct in january the van is a cracker and drives better than most cars ive had.
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''I'm fine with 400L now, but what if one day I do need more?''
Way to go Squeeks!!! - already looking to expand on the new fangled WFP window cleaning system ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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p.s. the doblo cargo won van of the year 2006. ;D
tony
In it's own category maybe, but I think you'll find that "Best Medium sized Van 2006" was the Renault Trafic. :P ;)
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I agree with you about Renault cars Malc, they're rubbish, indeed all french cars.
However, the Traffic/Vivaro/Primastar is a joint multinational venture with the best bits from Renault/Vauxhall/Nissan.
From what I've read and heard, once they're sold they don't come back.
Look how many are on the road...they can't all be wrong.
I wouldn't touch a Fiat/Citreon for £10 though.
All the plastic bits fall off and and the electrics pack up.
The Traffic/Vivaro/Primastar are known for gearbox issues though. Well I've heard it about the Trafic and the Vivaro. Not heard the same about Primastar though. I assumed they would all source their parts from the same place. OK so each manufacturer adds its own badging and maybe a few frills (such as Primastar's reversing sensor) but I assume the main bulk of the vehicles are essentially identical. I even had a Vauxhall dealer admit to me that the Vivaros come back with gearbox problems rather more than they should. Having said that, most of them are no problem.
They're a lovely van to drive though.
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Seeing as I'll be doing roughly 4,000 miles a year for the 3 years, I don't think that's going to be a problem somehow. ::)
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Seeing as I'll be doing roughly 4,000 miles a year for the 3 years, I don't think that's going to be a problem somehow. ::)
Good god. You'll get away with filling up once a month on that mileage. You don't need to think about filling up until you've done 400 miles since the last fill. I even got close to 500 when I had been on a long journey. (I reset the trip meter when I top up with diesel).
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i changed my old transit for a 03 mwb vauxhall movano,havnt had any problems so far and for a big van they are fantastic to drive.i love mine :-*
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Finally sorted out a decent deal on a van today.
Blimey, Roger (Squeaks),
WFP and a new van; crickey; Turbo Terry would be turning in his grave if he were dead!!!
I'm a bit disapointed mind; we can't make anymore 'ladders-on-a-pram' jokes about you; and there's me in my beat-up Rover humping barrels of water about and my little backpack!!
Anyway, mate; you've had enough bad-luck these past few months, so I hope it all works out well for you.
Once I move house and get sorted, I'll be in a position to offer you an alternative source of pure-water if Ian has any problems.
Regards,
Tosh.
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Cheers mate. ;)
It has been a big outlay, and I'm up to my ears in debt now, but it'll all be worth it in the end.
I reckon I'll pay off most people quickly working with the pole.
It now looks like it will probably be friday, so that means I've got the weekend to kit it out, and back to work monday!
Excellent, no time off work! :)
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we use a vw caddy its the nuts well built solid,it drives like a BMW WOULD LOVE TO GET THE AUTO TURBO :o £14500 plus vat :o
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Is this all a wind up?
In Jan Rog couldn't pay his tax bill, when the Escort needed a starter motor he couldn't afford a second hand one.
How on earth is Rog going to afford £250 a month? It wont dent his tax return for a long time, so no saving there yet.
It takes several months to get up to speed with WFP, so money wont flood in for a while.
I think Rog is victim of peer pressure.........
.........or this is a huge wind up!!!
couldn't agree more sunshine, like i said earlier in this post, i think rog has been sucked into "all the hype" & i think it will take him at least 12 months to make any significant financial gains with wfp!
he now has about 300 quid per month extra to make just to be in the same possition (financially) as he was before.
I personaly think he's been sucked in big time & been given un-thoughtfull advise. ::)
tony
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talk about knock him when hes down ::)
Its none of your or my business what squeeks does
He is big enough to make his own decisions
What ever they are all the best
Marcus
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Nowt like a bit of positive thinking is there????
AS Marcus said, all the best to him!
Rog will you now be poking those badgers?
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Give it 6mths and you`ll earn your van payment in a morning.
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you're right, good luck rog, you'll need it mate with all the great, possitive advise you've been given. ::)
tony
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Give it 6mths and you`ll earn your van payment in a morning.
Are you having a laugh?
dreaming more like, need i say more ::)
tony
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you're right, good luck rog, you'll need it mate with all the great, possitive advise you've been given. ::)
tony
How is this a helpful post, is there any point in it what so ever?? ???
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I can only say that if you come out with me for the day or any day i will prove it to you.Not every morning no i agree,by morning i mean say 1pm-1-30 LOL.The business has been in the family for 40yrs and over the last 10 has been finely tuned,what i`m saying is all the rubbish has been dumped or passed on to a newbie.If you canvass properly and in the RIGHT areas you can earn more than your accountant.
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I am simply saying what is possible,i`m noy trying to put down or offend anyone.The fact is you can earn a lot more with the pole,when he is as quick with the pole as he was with ladders he will see for himself.But if you carry on doing what you`ve always done you`ll get what you`ve always got,gotta go teas ready.
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Well there is 182 canvass days in 6 months, even if you half it its 91 days, at 20 quid per those 91 days thats an extra 1820 per month on top of an existing round. That is not an unrealistic figure to at least be earning on top of existing in 6 months! It all boils down to determination and how much you want/need the business. In reality you could really double that figure!
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What a load of crap. ::) (not you NiceandClean)
I worked on the pole last week and most jobs were the same time as I was before on first cleans.
I'll p*ss it next time.
Some jobs I took 20 mins on I was doing in just over 10...first clean.
£100 in the first morning, and oh yeah...first cleans. ;)
It's a doddle.
You lot must be slow setting up, slow doing it, and slow winding it away.
I'm faster than most people trad, yet there's no way I can do it as quick as I can pole.
In best Propole/Neil100 mode...
There's a mint to be made in this game.
If you can't hack it and aren't prepared to throw money at it to get what you want, then you're never going to make it.
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I bet you cant part with your squeegee,I bet its some where in the corner ::) :o
he will come back and get you :o ;D ::)
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Still love it on the shops Terry. ;)
Can't beat it on them.
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yes I knew it ;D I pick up my new wfp system soon ;D
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now which system shall I have :-\ :o ::)
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Terry is this a wind up,are you really getting WFP system.
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you're right, good luck rog, you'll need it mate with all the great, possitive advise you've been given. ::)
tony
How is this a helpful post, is there any point in it what so ever?? ???
is there any point in NWH quoting potential earnings for rog & then (just dropping in) that it's taken 40 years to hit those figures??
I give up ??? ??? ???
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I reckon Rog will take a while to find his feet while he's repaying the taxman and other debts but he will do very well once that has been reduced/cleared. It is very important to canvass the right sort of work and to drop/pass on the less profitable stuff though. If all or most of my business were as well paid as my top 10%, I would be doing very well indeed. As things stand, it's just OK - mainly because I should put in more effort. No reason why Rog can't get even faster at it and and earn loads if that's what he wants.
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That was nothing to do earnings,as you know 40yrs is a hell of a long time and providing a good service as my father did over this time stands the company name in good stead in the particular areas that were worked.I took the business over about 8yrs ago and dramatically changed things ie areas worked,type of work and the main thing which is price of work,the one thing with this job is that if you have average work then you are going to have average earnings,some people are happy with that and that`s fair enough,what i did was went into the wealthy areas ie large houses and then replaced about 80% of the work,this does not take 40yrs it can be done in a couple of years if you have the determination that was what i was trying to say.Theres no point keep putting posts up knocking me for what i`m saying i`ve done it.
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a couple of years ??? you just told him 6 months :-\
tony
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LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION,i`m off to eat some of them sour grapes.
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no sour grapes here mate, i have a very good business in a very wealthy area. top clientel, all my work is very well priced, i earn very good money for minimum hours etc. I have absolutley no probs, but, i still think squeeky has been miss-led & been given ill-conceived information, blown up/exagerated expectations throughout his wfp venture. egged on by the (un-realistic) "you dont need ladders anymore brigade". he will learn (unfortunatley) the hard way. ::)
tony
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So if it's not so great then why do you do it Macmac?
Seems to me 80-90% of people who changed have increased their earnings.
I can see already I will, after just one week.
I reckon anyone who isn't doing better isn't taking advantage of it..
Ask Ian Giles.
He's got offices that took over 3 hours, now doing them in less than 1hr 30mins.
Ok, I haven't got big commercial jobs, but at least I'm now in the market to get them.
Surely that's the point, looking for potential? ???
I got slated before, and now I'm still not doing the right thing apparently. ::)
After all those years of not wishing to expand, I want to get bigger and better.
I suppose someone's going to tell me that's the wrong attitude.
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Squeaky, If your latest posts are anything to go by then switching to WFP has not only changed your work method ,its changed your whole outlook
You are now looking at the bigger picture and can see good things down the road and are willing to put in the time and hard work to get there
Whether it was the change to wfp or something else that did that is your business.
Best of luck with the new venture
And that sprinter is my kind of van how much do they sell for
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I'm realistic rog, i trad & wfp most days. some jobs are easier & quicker to trad. I would never drop work just cos it dont wfp, some of my best accounts are trad only. I'm not saying you've done the wrong thing, just i think you could have been given better advise. you now have no choice but to expand, you've purchased a brand new van which is bigger than you need, you HAVE to earn quite a bit more money & you have virtually no wfp experience under your belt. On top of which, according to yourself, you are broke! for all you know half your customers may not take to wfp, and if you take the advise of increasing your prices now, as its the perfect oppertunity, just remember that doing so also gives any customer not happy with wfp, or,( no disrespect), your first attempts at it the perfect oppertunity to drop you!
I just think people are too quick to assume that wfp= easy money & expanding is a piece of cake. While i rant, i also wouldn't have advised you to but a modular pole too. To me you are running before you can walk.
No disrespect to you rog, or any other poster, like i say, i'm realistic, it doesn't matter to me if you go bankrupt next week, i shal lose no sleep, i dont know you, but i always try to give the best, most honest advise i can based on my own experience & only with the poster's best interest in mind. if that means disagreeing with the click, then so be it. :o
You can expand & you can also increase your earnings, just not at the rate at which you have been led to beleive IMO.
tony
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just to add to that, i'm not trying to be negative on a purpose or anything, & of-course i wish you the best of luck, but i feel that for your sake its important to see the other side of the coin, as i can only see that you've only been shown the one side. ;)
tony
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So if it's not so great then why do you do it Macmac?
Seems to me 80-90% of people who changed have increased their earnings.
I can see already I will, after just one week.
I reckon anyone who isn't doing better isn't taking advantage of it..
Ask Ian Giles.
He's got offices that took over 3 hours, now doing them in less than 1hr 30mins.
Ok, I haven't got big commercial jobs, but at least I'm now in the market to get them.
Surely that's the point, looking for potential? ???
I got slated before, and now I'm still not doing the right thing apparently. ::)
After all those years of not wishing to expand, I want to get bigger and better.
I suppose someone's going to tell me that's the wrong attitude.
If you know you can cope with being in the financial doldrums for a few months - possibly even a year - I think you have done the right thing Rog. Although my overall income isn't much higher than with trad, I could make it so with a blitz of canvassing. The work that was a reasonably full 6 week cycle for me, I now get around in 4 - maybe 4 and a bit. That leaves me room for taking on a fair bit of work. When I add the droppable work to that, perhaps I could get around it in three weeks.
If truth be told, maybe 60% of my work is droppable but I don't want the income dip while I would be replacing it.
Although Tony is right to sound a note of caution, I wonder if he's being over cautious. I think it needs to be taken into account that you have Ian and Tosh around which seems like a great bit of support to me. Also, I think you said that your wife works so maybe there is a small financial cushion there?
Some jobs I find are no quicker than trad but those are few and far between. Most are a fair bit quicker. On some jobs, I've actually managed to halve the time - though these are the bigger places where there is good access.
Also in your favour is that you have no more big oulays now for quite a while. You can get your water from Ian at low cost and I'm sure Tosh will chip in. This means you have no need to invest in a water production setup until you are ready to.
I reckon you'll make it OK but you will probably need to canvass for a while to fill those gaps in your workload that will appear.
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I think people do run away with the idea,if you fink wfp you ern loads,er you have to get the work first,there is no way just because you have a window sweeper its getting you work,I know of blue chip people that do not want them ::) its a gamble there are some people would love to see ladders banned,
cant see it in my life time :-\
they are a lot of money think wisely :-\ ::)
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I bought a trolly system about 6 weeks ago for half of my run its great especially commercial stuff.Ive got a housing scheme with 170 houses there only one road in and one road out so you cant yous a van mount thats why i bought a trolly system.After the first clean the windows came up great the only problem is iam a lot quicker with my ladders becuase all the gardens have got fences gates ect dosent matter how quick you clean the windows its the access thats the problem so thats me back up the ladder.I think when buying wfp you need to have the right work for it and theres no chance iam gonna drop 170 houses just because i cant wfp them.
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wise comments guys, i might sound over cautious as shiner fairley points out but i feel this is nessesary as a guys livleyhood is at stake here, a guy who (by his own admittence) is up to the hilt in debt already. So i feel, for his sake, he will be better prepared for his wfp venture being totally aware of the many negatives of wfp instead of just being bombarded with un-realistic, rose-tinted views of his immediate future.
And yes, ofcourse, there are many possitives, but like i said he will be better prepared for his immediate future knowing both sides of the coin. If me pointing these out & maybe looking negative puts me in a bad light, i'm sorry.
tony
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the fact is. its not all rosey just because you might have just got yourself an all singing danceing wfp :-\ its the work that counts,I have had many years of good and very bad times, some people can go out and it just falls for them,others
they struggle,I myself fell into the struggle zone,its called bad luck :-\
but it will be very interesting to see sqeeks get on in the next 6months,
I wish you very well,and hope its does make this major change that some suppliers say it does :-\
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Rog has now made the change, and it is not just in his method of work either, his outlook has also changed.
He has now become more ambitious.
For a few months he is going to be earning not much more than before, but he is also going to be less tired at the end of the day, and as the weeks pass he will pick up more work.
Even without having his new van signed (he won't be able to afford it for a while) he is going to stand out and that alone will draw in more work.
He is an experienced trad window cleaner, he understands how to price things up, even if he only prices things up as he did before he is going to make more money, in particular on georgian and leaded work, suddenly these are no longer the kind of jobs you dread, or avoid pricing up.
Certain accounts he will be able to increase straight away, houses with conservatories for instance - he'll be able to do those impossible to clean windows over the top, and he can also offer to clean ALL of the conservatory (not the roof though) wash the UPVC down from the gutters to the sill.
This one is a real clincher, Rog has shown me a pic of a before and after clean he did on a conservatory, and he can now see for himself the staggering difference in finish.
There is hardly a day goes by where I don't get enquiries for work now, the same thing will slowly but surely begin to happen for Roger.
I'll agree with macmac that the van he is getting is larger than he needs for his CURRENT setup, but it is not much more expensive than a smaller van would be, and it gives him the capacity to 'Go Large' ;)
He can't see it at the moment, but at some point he will want to increase the size of his tank for instance...
And don't forget, a big reason Rog has come over to the 'dark side' is because working trad has screwed up his shoulder.
I know Tony isn't a believer in using the superlite for the run of the mill work, but I have been using nothing else for the last two months and find it fantastic, Rog also needs to work as 'light' as he can due to his shoulder (and his back too), he hasn't got the full size superlite remember, and that was reflected in the cost.
As the Shiner has pointed out, he also has myself and Tosh to fall back on for hands on help or advice, and of course this forum for more general help.
As for his customers cancelling in droves..not likely, quite possibly he will lose a couple here and there, but he will also pick up more than he loses, and that's without any canvassing at all.
Squeaks mentioned above about an office where I now clean it in an hour and a half as against 3 hours (actually it was Rog that cleaned it in 3 hours, not me, on this particular one he was a good hour quicker than me, and most would take 5 hours to clean it too)
Well, after cleaning it WFP for the last 3 years, this week I found another little wrinkle or two that has let me shave a good ten minutes off the time taken.
To be honest, this is more because of the superlite, but I'm still kicking myself for the fact it's taken 3 years for it to dawn on me that I could change things slightly and make life even easier for myself.....actually, the superlite has also shaved off time purely becuase it is lighter and more rigid, thereby allowing me to work continuously without the need to rest.
As the saying goes, 'there is more than one way to skin a cat'
To use trendy speak, you have to 'think outside the box' Aproaching work as you would with a ladder isn't the way to do it.
Darren72 (why 72 by the way?) mentions about access problems.
He has a trolley system, but access makes it slower than trad, totally understandable too, kinda depends on the trolley system, but having a hose reel at the front with...say...30 or 40 metres of microbore fitted, might possibly have given him the scope to have done this work more efficiently with WFP.
A job I did today for instance, normally over an hours work, but I worked it differently today and saved myself over 20 minutes, been doing this one for over a year now too.
You have to keep thinking and being prepared to change what you do, sometimes the impossible becomes possible with only the smallest of changes...
Ian
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applauds squeeky for showing true grit, determination and above all - belief
seriously, look at it this way.
Van - £50 a week extra
System - £2000 repayable over 1 year approx = £40 a week
So squeeky has to earn an additional £90 a week to cover his additional expenses.
I reckon if Roger canvasses every night Mon-Fri for 2 weeks he'll have picked up at least £40 a night = £400 over 2 weeks, meaning his additional expenses are covered.
Don't forget that he'll do this work inside 2 days, paying his van and system costs for the entire month.
Squeeks, you're doing it right mate - keep at it.
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System was £800, and it's a loan from my parents at a low payback rate, so my addtional expenses are less than that.
The van works out at £12 a day actually, so what's that? A house extra?
Hardly a problem, as I should be doing at least 3 or more extra a day anyway...
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Squeaky don`t worry about the size of the van you have,in a while you`ll be glad you got one that size as theres more space to actually lay poles in rather than put them on the roof.From now on when you take work on just make sure it suits the pole unless of course it`s top money.Good luck you won`t need it.
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squeeks, when you get up to speed with the pole you should be able to do an extra £50 a day as a minimuminumunimun (haet speleng)
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You've done the right thing Squeaky - I did it it slowly and steadily - trolley - then tank then backpack then microbore then van then supalight and I'm doing fine.
But looking back - going for a van and supalight and microbore a year ago would have been even better.
Hot water next! Eh?
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wise comments guys, i might sound over cautious as shiner fairley points out but i feel this is nessesary as a guys livleyhood is at stake here, a guy who (by his own admittence) is up to the hilt in debt already. So i feel, for his sake, he will be better prepared for his wfp venture being totally aware of the many negatives of wfp instead of just being bombarded with un-realistic, rose-tinted views of his immediate future.
And yes, ofcourse, there are many possitives, but like i said he will be better prepared for his immediate future knowing both sides of the coin. If me pointing these out & maybe looking negative puts me in a bad light, i'm sorry.
tony
No problem Tony. It's good to show all aspects of WFP. I have made it very clear myself on other threads that WFP was a nightmare for me in the first few weeks - perhaps several months. I have started out with WFP up to my eyeballs in debt (the debt was there before I bought WFP). I was in the situation of "if I do what I've always done, I'll get what I've always got". I had to change something - and fast. So I went WFP, cut my personal expenditure where possible, and took a gamble if I'm honest about it. It's a bit early to say if that gamble will pay off but unless some bad unforeseen stuff happens, I reckon it'll be OK. From what Rog has written on here, it looks like his finances are in far better shape than mine.
I genuinely appreciate you sounding notes of caution. I think me and Squeaky are both gonna make it.
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Ive stayed off this thread, as i know the answer from some will be
"what do you know, your just a part-timer 3 day a week man, who makes his own system and has no drive "
Well just to counter the above, My daughter starts school full time in sept ( she is in pre school at the mo ), thus i can work 5 days a week, My plan is to work 4 days and have a day for the rain, in the last few weeks ( since my disney holiday in feb ) ive been thinking on where my biz is going and planning to expand in sept, ive picked up some nice little accounts just by putting a "biz pack" though doors of selected houses
personally i feel Rog has belived the hype about the WFP system and van, the old "think big, be big" crap that often gets spouted, yes sure, we know we can earn a little more doing WFP, but you need the work to start with, Im not sure a van brings in extra work, i just dont see it, if some1 see's you cleaning windows, they dont look for the motor your in, or do they ?? ? ?? i know every1 who i work for couldnt give a rats arse what i drive, they just want clean windows
good luck rog, you will make the extra for your van from WFP, you will make the taxman payments easier from WFP, when they have bee paid off, you will have a extra few bob in your pocket,
i dont know if you will be making the 600 quid a day that some say they earn every day, but if you do, put a bit aside for the taxman eh :)
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Ive stayed off this thread, as i know the answer from some will be
"what do you know, your just a part-timer 3 day a week man, who makes his own system and has no drive "
for the record, i have a drive, it fits my 2 cars on it, oh and 3 bins ( 1 for green cuttings, 1 for general household stuff and a box for tins and glass ) :P
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Matt
Have you considered that you might be wrong?
Yes to the lacking drive bit, count me as one of the some who think that.But what does it matter what I think, you are not going to jump out of bed in the morning just to prove me wrong. The frustrating thing about you is that you could be one of the top 10% earners in this game.
I know you like quality time with your family.
I know money's not your god.
I know you have nice holidays and think you do okay. But....
What if the people on here aren't bulling or bragging? What if it's all true?
In other words get your nose in the trough like the rest of us.
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I mean your website is basically to help people. What's that all about? Yes it's brilliant and you are a nice guy, but so what! If you had put the same verve and energy into promoting your own commercial site who knows where you'd be.
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Matt
Have you considered that you might be wrong?
Yes to the lacking drive bit, count me as one of the some who think that.But what does it matter what I think, you are not going to jump out of bed in the morning just to prove me wrong. The frustrating thing about you is that you could be one of the top 10% earners in this game.
I know you like quality time with your family.
I know money's not your god.
I know you have nice holidays and think you do okay. But....
What if the people on here aren't bulling or bragging? What if it's all true?
In other words get your nose in the trough like the rest of us.
im sure some do earn 600 quid a day, good luck to them, i will be the first to admit, i lack drive, yesterday, i started work at close to 10, why, i was helping my daughter practise some writing in her dora book ( shocking i know, i knew it at the time )
she was in pre-school today, i would have normally have got the xbox 360 out for a 2 hour session, instead i went out and did 3 houses ( all with conservs ) see i do try sometimes :) seriously, i know my faults lay in being gratefull with what i have, i dont need a massive house and sports car to be happy, i dont know, its hard to explain, but i knowmy faults, and 1 of them is i need more "drive" if only to fit the campervan on aswell ;D ;D
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I mean your website is basically to help people. What's that all about? Yes it's brilliant and you are a nice guy, but so what! If you had put the same verve and energy into promoting your own commercial site who knows where you'd be.
argh the webiste is to spread the knowledge, at the time when it was made, WFP was still in its early days, the only people ( apart from Jeff B and Philip h , that i knew of who were DIYers ), the rest were forced to pay silly money ( imho ) :)
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I mean your website is basically to help people. What's that all about? Yes it's brilliant and you are a nice guy, but so what! If you had put the same verve and energy into promoting your own commercial site who knows where you'd be.
argh the webiste is to spread the knowledge, at the time when it was made, WFP was still in its early days, the only people ( apart from Jeff B and Philip h , that i knew of who were DIYers ), the rest were forced to pay silly money ( imho ) :)
But, yes, its basically to help others, ive said it B4, its to help others who fail into any of these :
a. cannot afford " silly money " on a system
b. would rather not spend "silly money" on a system
c. would like the satisfaction in building a system
d. cannot afford " silly money " on a system
i know point a & d are the same, buts its such a major point i thought i would mention it twice ( a old red dwarf joke, that un ;))
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Matt
The quote at the bottom of all your posts says it all, it has stuck in my mind from the first time i saw it, & i agree with it totally.
;)
tony
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Matt
The quote at the bottom of all your posts says it all, it has stuck in my mind from the first time i saw it, & i agree with it totally.
;)
tony
its suits me :) i cannot remmber who gave me the qoute though ( please post if you did / or can remmber )
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About 5 years ago I had to stop work completely, (mostly trad w/cleaning with a little bit of WFP) because of my chronic arthritus illness which came on overnight after living an extremely health. It was a big shock to me as I had always been as fit as a fiddle and had never even seen a doctor before then.
One week before my illness I had traded in my previous van for a new one on a lease hire to add to my financial problems. The worst thing was the fact that I had to be helped out of bed, fed, washed and dressed by someone else and I'd lost all my independence having to rely on friends and family for everything. It was de-moralising to say the least. My doctor told me my working life was over and I was retired to the scrap heap. Me, being an ex-squaddie I wasn't having any of this and was stubbornly determined to regain my health and get myself back to work again because I wasn't going to accept my quality of life as it was being dependant on others for the rest of my life.
After 3 months of no work I started back again managing 1-2 hours a day in complete agony re-building my muscles which had gone to waste. Every joint was strapped with sports bandages/splints. Gradually over a year I built up my working hours to a full working day. I got my health back to a reasonable standard although I'm still an outpatient at my local hospital with occupational therapist, specialist, doctor, and blood tests every four weeks. My quality of life is 100% better than before.
When I first started back to work I had no option but to convert all my traditional work (apart from a few commercial jobs) over to WFP. Anything that was unsuitable for WFP was dropped.
It was a very difficult time for me a few years ago (starting back), so if I can do it then squeeky clean should have no problems. The only things I would advise him is re-price some of his work if need be and replace unsuitable WFP work(unless it's well paid) with work that is more appropiate.
Good luck Squeeky, and hope your financially difficult times are behind you soon, Wayne
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you now have no choice but to expand, you've purchased a brand new van which is bigger than you need, you HAVE to earn quite a bit more money & you have virtually no wfp experience under your belt. On top of which, according to yourself, you are broke!
This sounds like a recipe for success to me.
Some people say, some people do.
Fair play to you roger.
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the old "think big, be big" crap
LOL you have a good memory! that was a quote from me 2 years ago, when you got your self banned ;D for vote rigging :o
Andy
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the old "think big, be big" crap
LOL you have a good memory! that was a quote from me 2 years ago, when you got your self banned ;D for vote rigging :o
Andy
Andy, the reminding people to vote for me, which as you well know, went on all the time, even a mod admitted he had PM'ed people to vote for him
it went on to prove a point though, didnt it
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Yay!
Final full week of ladder and scrubbing work finished.
I'm shattered. :'(
Looking forward to going back to my easier job again next week.
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Yay!
Final full week of ladder and scrubbing work finished.
I'm shattered. :'(
Looking forward to going back to my easier job again next week.
whens your new van coming, this weekend is it ?? ? ?
you will be busy fitting that out then this weekend :)
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Hopefully going to get it this afternoon.
It's supposed to be. :)
Glad to get shot of the Sprinter!
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Can you post us a pic of it?
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Of course. ;)
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Well did you pick it up today Squeaks ?
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Yep, hang on...I do a pic.