Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Grafters Cleaning Services on April 13, 2007, 05:48:46 pm
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Did I do the right thing?
I have a policy that if a customer drops me and then asks me to come back to them at a later date I reply with
“I’m sorry but I’m too busy with my regulars to fit you in”
So I’ve been doing these pensioners flats for about 2 years now and would do about 90% of them
infact a nice little earner, a couple of months ago 4 dropped me for another w/c purely because he was £1 cheaper than me.
Today when I turned up one of my regulars (a nice old dear) tells me that my lost customers are not very happy with the new w/c and she goes on to say that they want you back.
My first reaction was to say s*d off to them but when 2 of them asked me in their sweet little way I buckled under the pressure and gave in and took them back on my books.
But at the same time, it also gave me great pleasure in the knowledge that I have taken away 2 jobs from a guy who undercuts other w/cs just to get the work.
I now wonder if I’ve done the right thing, what do you think
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In my opinion you did 100% the right thing. You'll most likely get the other 2 back as well.
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Sometimes it seems all too easy to play the hardball but hey they have learned for themselves that you are worth the little extra ;D
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Of course you have done the right thing!
It staggers me to think that WCers are so full of their own self importance to think that customers cannot give their business to who they want. If the ex customer finds in time they have made a mistake its up to the WCer to decide if he wants their custom back or not and it may be an opportune time to permanently dump some but to just dismiss the possibility out of hand is just arrogance and in this instance of multiple customers could be self harming.
I know there are differing views on this but its a good job for instance that shop keepers dont take the moral high ground attitude!
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I think you did the right thing, it would have been nice if you said "of course I will take you back on, but now I have a minimum charge for new customers" at a bit more than you charged before.
scrimit
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I think you did the right thing, it would have been nice if you said "of course I will take you back on, but now I have a minimum charge for new customers" at a bit more than you charged before.
scrimit
I'd agree with you if these were Yuppies trying to be clever...but they're old dears trying to save a few bob (bless 'em) ...don't be heartless :'(
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absolutely no comparison John...shopkeepers buy at a price and know they have a minimum sell on price...we do not. If someone came along and set up shop next to your local newsagent and started selling cigarettes etc at below the market value...your local shopkeeper would go bust.
We provide a service that WE put a price on.
If we laid down and allowed customers to pick and choose, NO_ONE would earn anything other than a survival income...the undercutters would rule the rounds and the image of the down at heel window cleaner working for peanuts would return after so many efforts to replace that image with a professional service with a price on quality.
The day you let your customers debate price and frequency with you is the day you lose that customer.
It`s not self importance, I can assure you...it`s business sense....and common sense.
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Of course you did the right thing and I would have done exactly the same.
You have to weigh up each situation on its own merits. In this case you would be nuts to have a high and mighty attitude and turn away good custom.
Like JohnM I can hardly believe some of the stuff I see on forums about being dropped by customers and then not taking them back on if asked to do so. If the price is right and a customer wants you back then take it as a compliment. As long as the work meets my minimum price then I take it back on. Usually charging 50 to 100% more for the first re-clean to get it back up to standard.
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absolutely no comparison John...shopkeepers buy at a price and know they have a minimum sell on price...we do not. If someone came along and set up shop next to your local newsagent and started selling cigarettes etc at below the market value...your local shopkeeper would go bust.
We provide a service that WE put a price on.
If we laid down and allowed customers to pick and choose, NO_ONE would earn anything other than a survival income...the undercutters would rule the rounds and the image of the down at heel window cleaner working for peanuts would return after so many efforts to replace that image with a professional service with a price on quality.
The day you let your customers debate price and frequency with you is the day you lose that customer.
It`s not self importance, I can assure you...it`s business sense....and common sense.
I reckon you've got it about right there Steve. Deciding whether or not to ditch a customer or whether to take one back is a BUSINESS decision and nothing to do with self importance etc. I have taken customers on for a second time (and even a third time in a couple of cases) when it has been financially beneficial to do so. However, if an ex-customer who messed me around for money or slowed me down with persistently poor access asked me back, I wouldn't do it. That's a business decision - NOT petty revenge. In fact, when I have found someone to regularly be a difficult customer, I have even failed to get the last payment from them sometimes because if I lose £20 from a bad payer, I will soon make that up and more from a new good payer. Sometimes it costs more to pursue debt than it's worth. It's easier just to canvass a new, better customer.
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Well said Shiner.
What I really meant but much better put :-[ :'(
I offer a price for my services and it's then up to the customer to accept it or not. If they are good payers and dont mess me around then I am happy to take them back if I've lost them to a cheaper service that doesnt deliver. I find that these ones usually turn out to be very loyal after that.
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Now they know they can mess you about,and a soft touch, it will be can you leave them this time,then you will kick youself and turn the air blue,been there done that. >:(
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You did the right thing, but I always add into my conversation that I will on this Occasion , but I won't do it again.
The only ones I refuse to take back are the pain in the a**e type customer, you know the type I mean. ;)
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i lost a customer about 3 years ago, i was then working with the mother-in-laws partener and he was rude and the lady didnt like it
i was the 1 who did all the paperwork and the accounts and the "customer stuff"
anyways, wednesday, she asks me to take her back on
i explain, im fairly busy and not sure if i can
she then says "please"
so i put a 3 quid on the price and take her back on
she asks why its gone up, i explain, its my new pricing and the price has risen a bit
afterall is business, we cannot really turn down work because they once cancelled us
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steve k
agreed, but a lot of us do shop on an overall quality level as well as price :)
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well done a true gentleman i nominate u widow cleaner of the month at the end of the day she addmitted she made a mistake and had the best guy back
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You did the right thing there as I feel for old pensioners if they do not have the money, I also do a lot of odd jobs for them as it makes me mad when I see them get ripped off by bogus traders. Tomorrow I am lobbing a tree down and just charging petrol plus disposal costs.
As you know if you do a good turn for them then they will inform everyone ;D
I'm up to my neck in work now any turning loads away, window cleaners are giving up in my area as the window cleaning licence is being enforced. Makes you wonder, the only person who will fail a licence is if they are a risk to the public.
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David,
of course you are run off your feet if you are doing work for nothing... ???
Is your philanthropic attitude reflected in your window cleaning pricing as well?
When we start out, we have a choice as to the customers we wish to target.
We can go the council estates or the bungalow/pensioner estates where we can rely on volume of work at a low price. These people cannot afford high prices and simply would not pay it...so you end up with hundreds of low paying customers. You work long hours, have a bursting round but earn an averagely decent income.
These customers would more likely consider dropping you if someone was knocking doors/leafleting offering to do the work cheaper and these type of areas are where most drink money, summer only window cleaners will canvass and undercut as they are most comfortable in this cheap quote arena.
If you target high income owners in large properties...these people are not interested in saving a pound or two or shopping around. They are after quality...this is why they shop at M+S for their food and not seen bargain hunting in the local Netto.
The fly by nights are not comfortable knocking on these accounts and quoting £20/£25 plus and the owners would smell a rat if they were to answer a knock at the door to find a stranger offering to clean their windows for a few pounds.
If you set out to gain the custom and trust of the high income family...your work will be judged on the quality, your reliability and your apparent level of professionalism inferred by your appearance, equipment, contact details and insurance details etc being made available to the customer.
These customers are also the people whose carpets and exterior areas are too large for them to clean themselves so there is an opprtunity to sell more services to these people during each season of the year. They already know and trust you and will pay well for your services.
These are the people whose windows you want to be cleaning.
John, if people shop on price factor alone, they are happy with poor quality.
If people want quality, they will only shop at certain outlets...these outlets price high but attract high income customers who are prepared to pay high. If a customer walked into this shop and started haggling, they would probably be asked to leave.
If you were to take your family for a restaurant meal, would you look at the window menu and go pale at the prices and keep looking elsewhere until you found somewhere cheap enough. If you did, you cannot expect a high quality of food preparation or service and the experience will probably be very uncomfortable with you vowing to never go there again...for a memorable meal prepared with the finest ingredients by a well paid and reputable chef presented to you by attentive, well trained staff in beautiful surroundings, you are going to have to pay for this level of quality and you will be happy to do so.
Social economics and politics dictate that there are whole communities whose families are surviving on a low income, who can only afford to shop at discount stores and a family meal is more than likely to come from the local chip shop or McDonalds...I would love to be able to sort out the politics that keep these people in the same financial struggle generation after generation...but I cannot.
From a business perspective, however, I would NEVER attempt to build a round in these type of areas.
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well said steve k well said , could nt of put it better myself,just what i think however im not as eloquent as you!
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thanx for all your replies guys,
it would seem that most of you would have done the same thing ;)
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You did the right thing there as I feel for old pensioners if they do not have the money, I also do a lot of odd jobs for them as it makes me mad when I see them get ripped off by bogus traders. Tomorrow I am lobbing a tree down and just charging petrol plus disposal costs.
As you know if you do a good turn for them then they will inform everyone ;D
I don't wish to sound uncharitable but them informing everyone of such generosity is just what I wouldn't want to happen. I've worked too cheaply in the past and I still have some work that needs big increases or dropping/passing on. I don't intend to keep underselling myself. I can't afford to work that way any more.
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at the end of the day simply
works work where ever or whaterver it is
you take it if you need it, you leave it if you dont
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so it seems most think that "D.A. Services" is a mug for doing some OAP a job as a favour
persoanlly, i think good on him, afterall when we get old ( or our folks get old and dont have loads of money to pay 50 quid a hour to a "semi-skilled window cleaner" ) we / they might just find a good person to do the job for them for a non rip-off price
all this, i dont do anything for anybody attitude is just heading down the road of pure greed
i cleaned out a weed / plant from a blocked downpipe for a OAP the other week, now this involved :
going to car, get ladders off
take apart "swanneck" of downpipe
unblock
put back together
put ladders on car
must have taken me 20 mins, in which time i could have cleaned the next house
she was gratefull, end of
sometimes its nice to do a favour to some1 and gives you a nice feeling, try it sometime, you just might like it
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i also do anything for my customers. the other day i was at a customers of 3 years and was talking to the gentlemen there. anwyay, went to the next house and my pump was acting strange, so i popped back to the house and asked if i could just plug my charger in to see if it was just my battery.
i spoke to the gentlemen and he really couldnt understand me, his wife told him to go sit down and explained to me that hes feeling a bit funny at the mo, it was strange because we had a good chat not even a hour ago.
anyway, i did my days work and decided to pop back to see if he was ok, he had a stroke, the ambulance was there when i arrived, they took him off and she had no way of getting to the hospital, i took her and waited with her, its 20 miles away and i was there over 3 hours.
its nice to be nice, besides, theyve looked after us for all these years, why not help them out once in a while?
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matt...how I conduct myself in my business is entirely different to how I conduct myself in my personal, real life.
I will help anyone in need if I am able to do so.
If I remember rightly, do you not have a nice sideline in importing and selling on campervans...?
I`m making a guess that your income from window cleaning is not the be all and end all of your family finances.
My customers treat me with respect and I do likewise with them...but the lunatics and status snobs have long gone...the non-payers, the "leave it this month" brigade, the bad access customers, the "I don`t want mine done with the pole" customers etc etc.
I search out the customers who I can earn a respectable living from and sell them a service and then deliver that service.
Funny thing here though....just before Christmas, I was cleaning 5 semis in a row and the last house who is not a customer of mine had put a pitiful Christmas tree in the window...the windows were filthy, old leaded and you could hardly see the tree.
I had always assumed it was a single pensioner who never got out as the house is in poor condition and very aged.
I thought I would at least let her see out of her windows and proceeded to WFP the downstairs...I thought if she comes out, I`ll just say "it`s on me for Christmas"
They came up a treat and I thought she would be really happy to see out of her windows at Christmas.
Next month in January, I`m back there and a young man comes out the house and asks me to give him a price.
I asked if he lived there, yes he said.
"did you notice how clean your windows were at Christmas...I done them as I thought an OAP lived there"
"No, never noticed mate!"
No Matt, we are not greedy or insensitive and we all do favours for the genuinely needy...but to run a business along those lines means you will always be struggling to finish your round on time and earn your wages.
How many of your customers came round last winter in the snow and offered a little something to see you through the lean weeks... ???
Not a single one I guess!
When you can help...do!
But remember the reason we are out there doing this is to provide for our loved ones...they come first.
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When you can help...do!
But remember the reason we are out there doing this is to provide for our loved ones...they come first.
i can agree there
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another thing...just get the post back on its original track...these OAPs dropped Jay without a thought to how it may have affected his income and family finances...just because someone could do it cheaper.
Then when it never worked out, thinking of themselves...NOT jay...they ask him to come back.
If they have done it once, they will do it again and I guarantee, the relationship with these customers will never feel the same again due to this incident.
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so it seems most think that "D.A. Services" is a mug for doing some OAP a job as a favour
persoanlly, i think good on him, afterall when we get old ( or our folks get old and dont have loads of money to pay 50 quid a hour to a "semi-skilled window cleaner" ) we / they might just find a good person to do the job for them for a non rip-off price
all this, i dont do anything for anybody attitude is just heading down the road of pure greed
i cleaned out a weed / plant from a blocked downpipe for a OAP the other week, now this involved :
going to car, get ladders off
take apart "swanneck" of downpipe
unblock
put back together
put ladders on car
must have taken me 20 mins, in which time i could have cleaned the next house
she was gratefull, end of
sometimes its nice to do a favour to some1 and gives you a nice feeling, try it sometime, you just might like it
I do stuff like that sometimes myself Matt - but only if it doesn't interfere with my business. Being too easy going about things in the past has led me into a major financial mess. To emerge from this mess, I am having top adopt a more money orientated attitude. Believe me - I hate it. It doesn't come naturally to me. I much preferred the times when I had little, owed nothing, and was able to treat work a bit like play. When I 've sorted my mess out (will take a few years), I hope to have those days back again. In the meantime, I will be businesslike in my business dealings but underneath, I will stay very aware that it is not the real me. It can sometimes feel quite debilitating needing to live the sort of life that goes against some of my values just to keep my mortgage paid and ahead of the debts. However, feeling angry at myself for getting in that mess would be counter-productive. I will just play the game and will remember that's all it really is - a game.
You've just read a bit of gut level honesty.
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The reason I do this for my customers is I hate seeing them being ripped off, how many times I have seen jobs done by so called professionals and they have charged the earth. For instance one customer had a fence put up and got charged £700 for six panels, which were made out of pallets. Now that annoys me as they have ripped her off as the fence fell down in a couple of months.
So I just inform them if they need anything done let me know, I tend to do them on weekdays provided I have nothing on and charge a small fee. Like today nearly killed myself chopping a tree down with an axe, had to do it that way as someone had took my tree saw >:(
In the end after having a heart attack ;D the old guy made me a cup of tea and we sat down with biscuits and I let him talk about when he was young ;D Folks like that I will do anything for when I have time as they do not have money to throw away, on the other hand where people can afford it I will charge a reasonable rate.
It's called getting to know your customer , this works for me. The downside too much work.
Doug
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steve k, The Shiner and any1 else on this thread
i wasnt having a go at you, i was just pointing out its nice to do " a favour" for some1 once in a while, i run my business differnet to alot here, i have tme to chat with the OAP's who dont see any1 for a week or so, it doesnt pay, but hey, i feel i bring a little happiness into a life or 2, they allways ask after my 4yr daughter and i tell them a story or 2
Steve k, the campervan thing is only starting out, i own 1, yes, im about to make interiors for them in Kit form ( i knew my carpentry would come in handy sometime ;)), im also importing and restoring come sept this year :) BUT your right, my window cleaning round isnt my only earner, my wife works part-time aswell ( though choice )
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steve k, The Shiner and any1 else on this thread
its nice to do " a favour" for some1 once in a while, i run my business differnet to alot here, i have tme to chat with the OAP's who dont see any1 for a week or so, it doesnt pay, but hey, i feel i bring a little happiness into a life or 2,
I'm with Matt on this one, unless i'm really tight for time i have a quick chat with my customers, its the personal bit a customer likes, not grabing their money & run. I've been told many times they like that, ok i'm not getting paid while chatting but if it keeps them on my books i'm happy.
I have also got a lot of extra work that way, fascia & soffits plus con roofs.
As Matt said, alot of the time we are the only ones the olden's may see for days, dont forget we will be old sooner or later, we too might want a chat, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.
Macc
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you speak very well steve k considering your from liverpool ONLY joking steve i have enjoyed reading your posts and pics keep it up i take it your a red , im a not too happy hammer