Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: mgba_78 on April 07, 2007, 10:04:22 pm
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We have been asked to quote for a monthly window clean on these new properties, it is one building but half is home living accomodation with the glass partition then the other half is a office space and rooms, designed for people who want to work and live in the same place. They want all of the windows and glass cleaned apart from the roof.
Also they have said it MUST be done trad as they do not like WFP.
How much do you think we should charge and how long do you think it will take 2 of us to do?????
Overall pic from the back of the property
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/adaily/DSC00092.jpg)
Closer shots and front pictures
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/adaily/DSC00089.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/adaily/DSC00088.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/adaily/DSC00086.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/adaily/DSC00087.jpg)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a164/adaily/DSC00090.jpg)
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It would be sickening doing that trad,they would come up mint with the pole.Oh and how do they want you to do the roof then.
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If they want it done trad then they will have to stump up for the cost of the cherry picker on top of the labour costs. If they are not prepared to do that then I would decline to quote. I think it really is disgusting that the customer is trying to dictate the working method - especially as that method may now be regarded as illegal and unsafe under the '05 legislation. If done by ladder, the all glass part would need to be done from a pointer as there would be nowhere to put an open top ladder.
Rather stupidly, they would probably be paying a lot more for it to be done trad than by WFP.
Maybe get them to put it in writing which work method they require and go from there?
I would not quote that job as I have no cherry picker licence.
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I would say about £50.00 but it would be easy doing it wfp stylee
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wfp, easy £50-£60, trad,i wouldnt bother
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WFP only or walk away!
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i would say about an hour doing it trad so about £35 would be a decent price
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£60 min, anything less than that walk away if you do not need the work.
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if they don't want the roof done then there would no problems doing that with points and it would legal to clean them that way.
I'd charge about £50.
It's down to the customer how they want there windows cleaned if that's not the way you work then fair enough, may be they've had bad experiences with wfp or might environmentalist so don't like the thought of wfp.
Gordon.
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If you are interested in doing that property, then I would call the local Health and safety officer and ask him if I would be breaking the 2005 directive, also what the penalties would be for me as well as the owners of the property if I did it trad and was breaking the 2005 directive.
Get this in writing
I would also like confirmation off your customers insurers that they would pay out either to me or my next of kin in case of any accident.
I consider this property high risk and would quote accordingly.
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::)
For god's sake, what a bunch of do-gooders.
Directives, cherry pickers, H&S...
Just quote it, clean it, trouser the money.
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Well said Squeeky ........ worth remembering that waterfed pole cleans are still in the minority
Mogy
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i agree with squeeks to many people looking for excuses to avoid work or make big money out of making a job sound more difficult than what it is , it is a straight forward job just get on with it .
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Sure thing. Without the need to do the roof glass you could probably clean without a problem most of the time. It's the rare occasions that you do get a problem that bother the H & S though. I know there are different interpretations but it does look like you can get fined for doing a job off a ladder that can be done with WFP (or cherry picker). If it were a one off job and messy from builder's rubbish maybe no problem. But a regular clean which must be done off ladders just because the customer says so does not sound good to me. So who's going to pay your lost income if you have an accident? I bet the customer would run a mile from that. It's all very well them insisting that you use a particular work method when they don't have to pick up the pieces. Also, I notice that one of the windows is two floors above ground.
Even a few short years ago I would have had no problem doing that job from a ladder but things have changed. Just being caught up a ladder cleaning those windows could make you the subject of a heavy fine. Although they haven't started flexing their muscles yet, I believe it will start happening in the not too diustant future.
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shiner i know exactly what you are saying but you cannot have one law for one trade and another law for another, if a painter was to do that job he would use a ladder true it would have a anti slip device fitted so if a window cleaner decided to use same method who could complain these are only my thoughts and may be i will be proved wrong but how can H & S police these rules on domestic properties.
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If your not comfortable using a ladder on the job ,you could easily trad-pole everything, If the top floor in the gables is a little to high then it looks lke you could do it from inside and as its a home-office there should be somebody home most of the time. This would keep the customer and H&S happy
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hi all i would quote £80 on that job i would also use a trad-pole aswell.
regards
Paul
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shiner i know exactly what you are saying but you cannot have one law for one trade and another law for another, if a painter was to do that job he would use a ladder true it would have a anti slip device fitted so if a window cleaner decided to use same method who could complain these are only my thoughts and may be i will be proved wrong but how can H & S police these rules on domestic properties.
The laws aren't trade specific of course. I suppose that a scaffold tower might be the way most cost effective way for a painter to avoid ladder use. For what it's worth, I don't actually agree with the new working at height rules either. They seem too inflexible to me. I feel that maybe compulsory, certified ladder training would have been a better way. Although I have plenty of ladder experience, I'm sure I would have learnt something from it.
As for policing the new(ish) rules, don't be so sure. I know for a fact that social security investigators travel around randomly and view people working. They then see what vehicle they are using and identify them that way. Of course, you and I never hear about that because once they check our IDs, check that we're not claiming and cross reference that we are registered with the IR, they don't pursue it. Also, if they do catch someone, the assumption is always that it is from an anonymous tip-off. If the powers that be can do that, it wouldn't take much imagination to do the same with anonymous H & S inspectors.
In truth, I do sometimes resent the fact that it was made so difficult for me to use my preferred work method (ladder) but having said that, I feel that I have made good use of the remaining choices. Having taken that plunge, I would feel quite aggrieved that a customer was trying to force me back to a method that I have now grown unused to.
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hi shiner we did speak at the show we looked at the ionics pro 10 at the same time i agree with what you are saying i myself also use wfp but the point i am trying to make is how can the H&S prosecute someone window cleaning for using a ladder when other professions are still allowed to use them i just wish they would give us black and white rules on what we can and cant do and also like you said offer trainng certificates for people to be licensed to use ladders just as they haveI.P.A.F for cherrypickers.
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hi shiner we did speak at the show we looked at the ionics pro 10 at the same time i agree with what you are saying i myself also use wfp but the point i am trying to make is how can the H&S prosecute someone window cleaning for using a ladder when other professions are still allowed to use them i just wish they would give us black and white rules on what we can and cant do and also like you said offer trainng certificates for people to be licensed to use ladders just as they haveI.P.A.F for cherrypickers.
Like you, I feel that the H & S are guilty of being to woolly about this. The very fact that we have to discuss whether or not a particular activity is or isn't legal shows that they are shirking their responsibilities in a big way. On the one hand they say that ladders are not banned. On the other they insist on them being tied off when tying them off would multiply the time spent on the ladder. Then they refer to tying them at the bottom when, in reality there would be nowhere to tie them on most jobs. Then they refer to measures of "equal effectiveness" which could mean something like a Rojak ladder stopper but, in some cases (such as on a slightly soft lawn), it would be safer to use nothing because the indentations caused are safer than a stopper (IMO).
I feel that they should either p off and let us get on with it or be more specific about what is required - AFTER doing proper research. Leaving everyone in limbo with multiple interpretations is just about the worst scenario - yet that is what we seem to have.
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im with john l wfp or not at all
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I'd want £75 min for that job - no way am I going to let customers dictate to me what method I use. At the end of the day its MY safety which is paramount - not their dislike for wfp, so its definitely a wfp job.
Also current WAHD regulations (in Norther Ireland anyway) are limiting the use of ladders to 8ft.
Finally 2 men doing that trad is going to take 2 hrs, a good poler will do that by himself/herself in no more than 90 mins.
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cheers for the replies guys, they do not want the roof doing, we quoted £120 for in and out every month and got it, we think it will take 2 of us 3-4 hours.
I got the ladder out before we quoted and the long windows in the last pics can either be done with a pole or ladder rested on the frame edge, customer was happy for either method to clean the window.
We are trad cleaners not WFP which is why we were asked to quote as they have had previous bad experiance with WFP'ers in their other house.
Roll on, £1500 pay rise, hopefully will get more, there are 3 of these bad boys next to each other :D
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I had a customer who didn't want the transition from traditional to WFP. The house was a large 13th century manor type building which had been modded a few times. One of the windows was about 35 ft up. As you can guess this house was a good earner but i decided that 1 fall could stop my earning ability for life which is why i went WFP in the first place. So i took the sensible option. Canceled the job. While people are still prepared to risk themselves needlesley it will only make it harder to educate people that this is the new way (end of story) when H & S do eventually enforce a ladder ban of which will happen. Even the fire brigade are experiencing ladder bans to install smoke alarms so im damn sure we wont be left alone.
Good luck with your new contract but be careful always.
Marcus
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To be honest i can`t wait until they ban ladders,it will make life much easier with the customers in general with our job.
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Good pricing, I'd say you'll earn well good on that. If you have point ladders then I'm sure you'll get it done faster than you think you will.
There are probably quite a few customers that are unhappy with wfp and change or seek the services of a trad window cleaner. I lost 2 small jobs because of wfp myself. What will all of these customers do when their trad window cleaner converts to wfp?
Simon.
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To be honest i can`t wait until they ban ladders,it will make life much easier with the customers in general with our job.
God you're lucky I'm WFP now...
I'd have eaten you alive for that statement in the past. :o
Still a dozy comment though, there's thousands of good honest workers using ladders all over the country (more of them than us too, by a mile).
You want to put the majority of window cleaners out of a job?
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I don't think it's using the ladders that is necessarily the problem. The problem would come if, while using a ladder, someone had an accident and it came to light that they had WFP but chose to use ladders at the insistence of the customer.
First of all, the insurance would not pay out. Especially if the claim was a really high one and they sent out a loss adjuster.
Also if serous injury or death occured to your employee then you (by "you" I mean the one who pays the employee) would potentially be at risk of charges for negligence or even manslaughter. You could even be out of pocket for a compensation claim which the insurance would not cover. It's all down to who is prosecuting.
After that, you have to worry about HSE.