Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: ag on April 03, 2007, 07:30:05 pm
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Hi There
firstly I just wanted to say thanks for a very informative discussion board - and that is to the facilitators and everyone that is so good at sharing information. As a newbie, I find it really beneficial.
Something that is puzzeling me - when I got my portable I was also given Prochem Liquid Gold Prespray and the Fabric & fibre rinse. All I have had to do so far is wool carpets and this combination has worked fine with me. However I was also given Prochem Extraction Pro and told to use this on synthetic carpets.But Im confused at the fact that the Prespray is an alkaline (8) and the Extraction Pro is an alkaline (8.5), surely this means that the neutralisation hasnt occured. Cant I just use fabric & fibre on everything?
Also I have a ninja portable, and usually on wool carpets I have had the temp at 60 degrees and 400psi - Is this to high and what do you recommend for synthetics and belgium wiltons?Im afraid due to costs, I dont have any other systes to work with at the mo, and would like to make back money with what I have so really appreciate your advice.
Believe it or not, I have actually attended a course, but as you all know yourselves things are a bit different when you are out there in the trenches.
Many thanks in advance for all your help
most appreciated
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Hi,
If you listen/read prochems advice then they would have you using acidic rinse on everything. I guess this is a valid approach.
I think they also say that you can rinse with Fibresafe Gold while using Prespray Gold. This is the approach that i prefer as you are effecively cleaning the carpet while rinsing in addition to with the prespray.
I think we inherited a bottle of extraction pro and have used it both as a prespray and as an in tank chem. It smells like a cleaning chemical and you might find some resitance to that. I dont think that the cleaning results with it are particularly great either.
On all carpets >> test test test. Look for colour bleed and dodgy fitting. These are the two things that are most likely to give you problems.
On wool: Use Prespray gold and rinse with Fibresafe Gold. (We have carried out extensive tests and unless the carpet is hammered ie a pub, then you will get very good results with this combo.)
On poly/nasty acrylic: Use Traffic Clean and rinse with Double Clean. (similarly tested)
On Nylon: Treat as wool unless it has been hammered. Dont go above pH 10 if you dont want a problem on the next clean.
We have used this kind of strategy and have very few problems.
Or you could do what a large number of people on the forum do, use splitters/Nemesis/Solutions product on everything. Its "safe" and has its own selling points. Prochem do a splitter called pure clean that will do the same job.
Hope this helps
If you want to chat, email me
Graeme Thurston
Access Cleaning Solutions
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Good post graeme,
Plain and simple with no double dutch, ;)
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Yes you can use fibre and fabric on everything.
It is the safest way to clean, however not the quickest or most effective.
the reason you have been advised to use something different on synthetics is basically because we like to push our luck when we think we can get away with it.
Liquid gold, and fibre and fabric wouldnt clean a really bad carpet without a lot of work
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Anyone tried the new Nemesis?
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Just to add personally i dont think you can beat Alltecs ultimate master
you just chuck a couple of scoops in the tank, then you can pre-spay with your handtool so your spray is going down hot at pressure
Then just get on with your clean, you will be cleaning at a ph of 9.5 so this will tackle most jobs and it drys neautral so no worrys
what could be easier, or better?
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Iam just coming to the end of my 2nd year in the 1st year all i used was prochem chemicals i thought they were ok then i tried chemspec everything i used from them been brilliant formula 90 great and for wool i use liquid one clean i find there chems a lot better than prochem but i still use the odd thing like multi pro and fabric restorer. darren
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Hi,
If you listen/read prochems advice then they would have you using acidic rinse on everything. I guess this is a valid approach.
I think they also say that you can rinse with Fibresafe Gold while using Prespray Gold. This is the approach that i prefer as you are effecively cleaning the carpet while rinsing in addition to with the prespray.
I think we inherited a bottle of extraction pro and have used it both as a prespray and as an in tank chem. It smells like a cleaning chemical and you might find some resitance to that. I dont think that the cleaning results with it are particularly great either.
On all carpets >> test test test. Look for colour bleed and dodgy fitting. These are the two things that are most likely to give you problems.
On wool: Use Prespray gold and rinse with Fibresafe Gold. (We have carried out extensive tests and unless the carpet is hammered ie a pub, then you will get very good results with this combo.)
On poly/nasty acrylic: Use Traffic Clean and rinse with Double Clean. (similarly tested)
On Nylon: Treat as wool unless it has been hammered. Dont go above pH 10 if you dont want a problem on the next clean.
We have used this kind of strategy and have very few problems.
Or you could do what a large number of people on the forum do, use splitters/Nemesis/Solutions product on everything. Its "safe" and has its own selling points. Prochem do a splitter called pure clean that will do the same job.
Hope this helps
If you want to chat, email me
Graeme Thurston
Access Cleaning Solutions
wow thats one great post there
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Hi All
Great Posts - thank you all very much. I sent you a mail Graeme. Just to put you in in the picture I am based in southern, southern Ireland and access to all the cleaning products mentioned is a struggle compared to the UK. Prochem is the most available, so that is why I was trying to work with it.
Perhaps you may have some input regarding the highest temp, pressures to go to per carpet type. This is to avoid the auld "shrinkage"chestnut.
Many thanks again, and greetings from Ireland,
Agnes
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Graeme
I have to ask...my natural curiosity...why would you want to 'rinse' with double clean?
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I have to ask...my natural curiosity...why would you want to 'rinse' with double clean?
I know this probably isnt the best way to clean PP/acrylics, but it gets very good results. Double clean is pH 9ish (maybe a touch more) so it doesnt leave the carpet too alkaline. I know that some would say leaving it >8 isnt good for resoiling, but we havent observed accelerated resoiling. The main reason we continue to use double clean is that its full of optical brighteners and these definately help with appearance. It also helps to clean hammered carpets more than once.... prespray then in tank.
I guess for the purest, you could rinse with a self neutralising detergent, or even a splitter.
I can see this will stir up some emotions
Graeme
Access Cleaning Solutions
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I might be right in saying that there is no conection between ph level and resoiling levels - Its the chemical mix determines this.
Rgards
Mark
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We are fortunate in the West of Scotland, having naturally acidic water and this provides an excellent rinsing agent.
As we've been over 20 years of c/c we have a very high percentage of repeat clients, so we see carpets on a regular basis.
Resoiling, has never been a problem and achieving exceptional results, is something we expect !!!!!
Apart from the early " learning period " we have never used acidic rinses, or even attempted to balance chemicals.
Yes.........I've been to IICRC and many other courses and they have always been informative, but......how the individual uses the chemicals and tools, is IMO, more important than attempting work to an exact science.
The majority of products for c/c are very forgiving, although I would agree that a few require a more cautious approach.
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Mark
pH balance is one thing residual deposits left behind are another...the two combined yet another factor for consideration.
Optical brightners have a limited use only.
The condition of a cleaned carpet should be safe for the fibres , the customer and the technician in subsequent cleans
The comments made on the various forums from time to time bare out my own thoughts that many who go on training courses then go on to do their own thing...some of the procedures talked about make me shudder at times...its no wonder things go wrong
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Hi derek
So would you agree with me that it makes no sense to use a prespray at 8ph and cleaner at 8.5?that advice was just incorrect.It just didnt make sense to me.
Im off to my first job today - wish me luck!
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Rinse and be safe. I do on all carpets and fabrics , it doesnt pay to cut corners.
Regards
Mark
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Hi Guys,
One aspect which doesn't get a lot of coverage in these debates is quantity.
I believe in using the lowest amount of chemical needed to get a good job, a lot of problems come from using too much chemical.
Cheers
Doug
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As I've mentioned, Derek, in over 20 years, we have cleaned to a very high standard, with absolutely no problems, however, we have often found residues from previous cleaning, including well known franchisees.
I would assume such people are trained to follow guidelines, religiously, but still fail to get " the best possible result "while others, gain invaluable experience and knowledge through working and experimenting.
I always advocate training, but have been on this earth too long, to expect people to become better people, simply through training.
Doug has just " hit the nail on the head "
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Hi
There is cleaning and then there is cleaning.....cleaning to a high standard ....great ... but this is always going to be in the eye of the beholder.
I have seen so many cleaned suites that look as though they need cleaning... I have also rectified many bad cleans over the years I have lost count
Franchisees from the various networks over the years have received excellent training but once again what they do out in the field may be totally different from what they hear in the training room.
I do agree with Doug that the lowest amount of cleaning solution should be used but there are also other considerations that so often get missed...its these ommisions that lead to inappropriate chemicals being used..
I am not referring to any particular person or persons on this or any other forum but reflecting some of the many calls I receive from technicians and agrieved customers when something goes wrong.
I spent over an hour just last night trying to calm down and give advice to an elderly lady who has had a suite damaged by a so called professional cleaning technician.
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Hi Mark
Understand that you have to rinse, but I also thought that the point of a rinse after a prespray was to neutralise, and just to go back to my original post, a prespray of 8, with a rinse agent of 8.5 dont neutralise each other - its two alkalines together.
Maybe it doesnt really matter after all.
so what happened to that suite, Derek - lack of testing?
Agnes
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I have mentioned above, that I DO ACTUALLY RINSE and always have done, but with water and have never had any problems with this, also, I have suggested that at the end of the day, the attitude, application, pride and a desire to deliver value, can often give superior results, over many, who may have all the theoretical knowledge in the world, but fail to apply themselves.
Obviously, the products used, method of delivery, quality of aggitation and thoroghness in rinsing will have a major bearing.
This is one of the reasons, I've always been a fan of the CFR system.
You are absolutely right about " the eye of the beholder "and just yesterday I had the great pleasure of calling in to treat a spill in a regular's home...............What was pleasing, was the fantastic condition of the carpets we'd cleaned six month's ago, particularly, as they were in a pretty sad condition when we inherited the client from a worldwide franchise company.
Incidentally, I was only commenting on our good fortune in having, naturally acidic water, with the obvious benefits, but was curious about the response I might get !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Please don't take my ramblings personally CG....
it has long been an issue with me on how clean is clean and who has the right to determine whether an item is really clean.
I remember well a freshly cleaned carpet I saw many years ago and was asked to treat it with a protector... I had just treated a brand new carpet for the lady...
this second carpet had been cleaned the previous day by another cleaner.. I asked the client if they were happy with the clean as I hadn't carried out the work and they replied that they were quite happy. I still declined to treat the carpet as I didn't consider it clean...and it was quite a poor job actually
Hence my how clean is clean and who decides remark.
There are well documented criteria for cleaning carpets and soft furnishings...we are in a high risk business so I cannot understand why some technicians rush to break rules just to save a few minutes when there is the chance it could result in a rectification call back or replacing the item cleaned
Agnes
No it wasn't lack of testing..the cleaner in question had tried to rectify another problem not of his making and used an inapropriate chemical or procedure....I would clarify and say procedure which included an inapropriate chemical
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carpetguy so does it help when your in a soft water area when cleaning carpets i also do window cleaning with wfp systems in my area our tds 48 so what your saying that helps when cleaning carpets . darren
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Graeme
Great post. I'm a newbie going on next week's NCCA course and your post sorted out many wonderings I had with regard to "what chemical on what?"
Just one other thing - what about "Multi Pro"?
Cheers
Owen