Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Sir Squeaky on April 02, 2007, 09:20:56 pm
-
My first day with the pole was a mixed bag.
I found it so hard on my wrists trying to scrub top edges and vents.
There was so much dirt around the vents and they were so near to the glass that I had to do them. >:(
Customers seemed ok with me doing it, but they might not be when they see the results.
I reckon at least 50% were spotty.
The trouble is with this system is it's so bloody inconsistant.
By hand you know you've done a good job.
With this you do them all the same and some are good, some are crap. ::)
I only managed to get about £50's worth done and the pump packed up (or so I thought).
Turned out I had an airlock, and it just wouldn't pump any water.
I don't want that to keep happening. >:(
To be honest it'll have to get better, because I'm not impressed so far.
All it's doing is proving all my old criticisms correct.
Flaky georgians tomorrow, so I'l look forward to them. ::)
Ho-hum...
Rog.
-
Stick with it Rog,look forward to the 3rd cleans mate that`s when your see what all the fuss was about you`ll have to do hardly anything to them to get them clean.Get yourself the lightest pole you can afford ,if you can get a superlite there ideal for first cleans as you can really scrub and rinse a lot more than you can with a heavier pole with a heavy pole it`s not to long before fatigue sets in and your arms will feel like there dropping off.Also try a mono brush it`s a lot easier to direct the brush to exactly where you want it to go.Keep going it does get better,once you`ve got the hang of it it`ll make you cry the way you used to do leads,gergion the list goes on.
-
Yeah its only your first day, stick with it!
With all the dirt that you had on the frames and vents, i take it when you were trad you didnt clean the frames?
-
Nah, never did frames for free.
I've already got a Superlight.
It's excellent.
I'm happy enough with the kit, when it's working!
It's just the spots that are gay. >:(
-
Rog
Please its been said before and you can never stress this enought RINSE RINSE RINSE then some more for good measure
I must have forgotten the bad times cause I never remember it being as bad as 50%, I had 2 complaints in the first 3 mths 1 was cause I did a real poo job which I went back to redoo them and the other blamed me for shoddy work on a door I didnt even clean ( iguess they didnt like the wet left)
As I said before most first cleans I can now do straight off and expect 99% perfection if not better, if the water is 100% theres no reason why not
Chris
-
squeeky the first few weeks can be really disheartening and like you say the iritation comes when you do exactly the same on the window and some dry good yet others are spotty, when i first went wfp i seriously thought about binning the lot a few times, the worst part is when the customers complain because really there is nothing you can say as they have paid for their windows cleaning and they arent clean.
you obviously have a good relationship with your customers so just do as i did ,i told them that due to health and safety i have to give this new method a go other people using this system say it takes 3 cleans to remove the debris from frames and rubbers and then the results are good if you can just give me 3 cleans to prove this then if i am not getting good results i will go to the health and safety and argue that i will have to use ladders to get satisfactory results, i found my customers appreciated my position and after the three cleans they did come good.
Like you i first started in spring which is really a bad time as the sun is out we have long days and every mark shows so i always would recomend people to start wfp in winter the marks dont show the same and people are not as bothered because of the bad weather and dark nights and by the time spring comes the results are good so they have nothing to grumble at.
stick at it although frustrating it will come good but from now on you will always have the odd day that makes you wonder what is going wrong, from now on 2007 will be called squeekys summer of discontent. >:(
-
I've really hammered home the cleaning of the frames.
This has helped me get away with some iffy results.
To the last few people I said that they should think of it as a good thorough frame clean for the same price as usual, and although the windows should be pretty good, it's all about the frames.
Next month it's back to windows properly.
This seemed to please people, as they were happy for not quite 100% windows if it meant lovely bright plastics. ;)
I'll think I'll go on with that.
Along with telling them about my painful month off and having to use this now! ;D
-
We are all thinking sympathetically about you. (well I was today)
I dont and never have done frames for free. Controversilly I get by just doing the glass, I dont go within a mile of vents.
Maybe you could fast blade the bottoms afterwards, they may accept the odd spots on the upper floor. Or do the bottoms trad till you and the cust. get the hang of it.
-
Failure cannot live with persistency!!!!! Stick at it Squeeky and be prepared with some good answers for any complaints you may encounter from your customers.
-
Nah, never did frames for free.
I've already got a Superlight.
It's excellent.
I'm happy enough with the kit, when it's working!
It's just the spots that are gay. >:(
Stick with it Rog and I promise you it will get better. I don't care if the spots are gay, straight or transexual. Most of them won't be there in a couple of cleans time.
-
I'm on to second cleans now and you can see the spots from the first cleans but no one really complained. I agree with all the posts so far, apart from scrubbing really hard with a Supalight I don't think it will take too much pressure. The most frustrating thing with first cleans is the time it takes to go round twice. I'm now at the stage of experimenting with different brushes and altering my technique here and there.
-
Flaky 3 storey georgians today. :(
They're really close to a busy street too, so I'm going to get wet I guess. :-\
-
Flaky 3 storey georgians today. :(
They're really close to a busy street too, so I'm going to get wet I guess. :-\
And a brush full of paint flakes :o
-
squeaky clean all the frames and windows farely quickly then go back on all the windows as normal, this gives the water from your frames a time to drain.And remember plenty of rinse!!!
-
Dont worry. After 3 months or so it gets easier.
-
Squeaky How did you get on with the flaky frames?
I also am new to wfp and need all the advice I can get.
Im still practising on my own windows at the mo.
Bod
-
Rinse off the flakes and then rinse off the glass when it`s flake free,try not to scrub to hard if the customers are in the room your doing as it don`t look good when the paint is being rinsed down the glass,they do tend to think your damaging there windows if you scrub these types of window`s to hard.The reason as we all know is because there poorly maintained.
-
Cheers for that. I may try the cheeky approach and say "my your windows need painting"....i wish
Bob
-
I had trouble all day with wetting people's interiors.
Half the windows I did today leaked.
Including one house where 7 out of 8 windows were soaked inside.
I spend ages getting it as good as I can, and leave spots on the inside! >:(
Thing is, with old glass most of it sheeted when I rinsed it, and it just flooded down in one big wave, so I guess they're unlikely to spot.
Back to UPVC and spots again tomorrow. :-\
-
I know its not funny but boy squeeky do i look forward to your posts.
Please keep us informed cos Im looking at you for any problems that i may come across. What did you do with the ones that leaked inside? Did you just apologise or leave it.
Bod
-
Stick with it , it'll get better
Bob
hows your own windows then
Chris
-
I know its not funny but boy squeeky do i look forward to your posts.
Please keep us informed cos Im looking at you for any problems that i may come across. What did you do with the ones that leaked inside? Did you just apologise or leave it.
Bod
Had to apologise, it was embarrassing.
I just won't be able to do some of them WFP, and as most were georgian I don't want to go back to doing them by hand.
Shame to lose customers of 10 years, but I'm not going injure my arm scrubbing again. :(
I'll see if I can get a local trad cleaner to do them.
I feel I should, as it's not the customer's fault.
-
Chris.
My own windows didnt too bad at all. Although I did use much too much water(on a meter), almost 15 litres on 1 frame with 4 pane in it. Thinking rinse rinse rinse.
Im in Earsham tommorow...is that your end of the woods?
Bod
-
I'm out near Stradbroke tomoz on 1 job all day start at 7.30
-
Although I did use much too much water(on a meter), almost 15 litres on 1 frame with 4 pane in it. Thinking rinse rinse rinse.
Bod
Bod, on a WFP new clean - on a semi for example - wash all the frames and windows; you don't have to go overboard; then return to the first window and wash and rinse each window again; GLASS ONLY.
Then the following month, you only have to go round once.
By the third month, you should be flying round; say no more than 45 seconds spent on a window such as you've described in your post; possibly less.
Keep practising on your own house; if it's suitable. Try and do it as fast as you can; then see what the results are like.
I live in a shoe-box; it has 6 windows and one door (with a window in it). I can do my house in under five minutes and it generally turns out good.
You definately don't need to use 15 litres on one window.
-
Thanks Tosh.
On the 2nd months clean do I clean all the frame again as well as the glass or clean the top of the frame and glass?
Bod
-
Bod.
Clean the frames & glass every time. In a few months time it will take seconds to do the lot & will look mint ;).
Macc
-
Cheers mac
-
Looking forward to that!
I ran out of water at 2pm today.
Buggered if I was going to go over to Ian's to top up, when I'd still need more for tomorrow.
On the first cleans when I'll just have to get done what I can.
I'm sure on normal cleans 300-350L should be enough for 5-6 hours work.
Also, for the 2nd time in 3 days my system stopped with an airlock. >:(
At least I know how to cure it now.
Still annoying though.
I think it's where I've been quite low on water and sucked in a bit of air if I've parked on a slope.
It's always been on the last job of the day.
Still, at least I'm earning again now. :)
-
Bod,
Concentrate more on the top frame; that's the area that'll give you problems; rather than the side bits of the frame.
I don't really clean 'side frames'; just rub my brush over them now-and-again.
I do different things for different windows; sash windows for example I'll clean and rinse all the top sashes (including the top frame), the transome bar and just below the transome bar first; for maybe two or three windows (then rinse what I've just cleaned, ie the top frame, the top sash window, the transome bar and the area just beneath); then return to the first window and then clean and rinse the bottom sashes.
I do this to minimise the risk of pure water running over the transome bar, picking up dirt, and depositing it onto the lower sash.
Think a little bit about your 'pane order'.
Am I making sense?
If not blame Ian Giles; he's beasted me on a squash court and then forced beer down my kneck!!!
-
Roger (Squeaks),
What's your overall thoughts on WFP?
Do you prefer it to ladders?
Are you finding it physically easier?
Do you think you can earn more money now you're WFP?
-
Hi Squeaky.
These are all silly things in a few months time you will look back & laugh about. You have made the right move mate.
I went through it all 16 months ago & i'm glad i switched, you will feel the same in a few months time.
All the best mate.
Macc
-
Roger (Squeaks),
What's your overall thoughts on WFP?
Different. Enjoying the change so far.
Do you prefer it to ladders?
Certainly less tiring, but it's more to do in some ways, what with reeling out hose, attatching pole, avioding pots and car tyres etc...
Are you finding it physically easier?
My neck aches from looking up, which isn't good.
However my legs aren't tired, and when your legs are tired you feel drained.
Definately not so shattered in the evenings.
Do you think you can earn more money now you're WFP?
Definately on some things.
Not so sure on others.
Averaged out I'd say yes, but hard to tell how much more.
Obviously not at the moment though!
-
Cheers Macc.
I hope you're right!
-
Roger,
You're a bright bloke, I'm sure you'll be okay.
Just keep on thinking, 'If Macc can do it; anyone can'.
Ian_Giles tells me that you're going off to work without carrying ladders; even though you've got a roof rack on your van.
I still have accounts I use ladders on; you've got bigger balls than me.
Good on you! I hope to be following in your footsteps shortly.
-
Cheers Macc.
I hope you're right!
Trust me Rog, you will.
I thought it was science what was in the van & all the little problems. I'm not thick just more manual thinking but its all second nature now.
Once your over the first couple of cleans, worked out where to set up from & got your routine sorted you will be fine. Even now i alter my routine slightly & it speeds me up even more.
Macc
-
Roger,
Just keep on thinking, 'If Macc can do it; anyone can'.
;D
-
Ian_Giles tells me that you're going off to work without carrying ladders; even though you've got a roof rack on your van.
I still have accounts I use ladders on; you've got bigger balls than me.
Good on you! I hope to be following in your footsteps shortly.
I'm sure there's some things I'll need ladders for.
I've got a few "over the garage" jobs I'll have to use them on.
My old folks home is another one.
150-odd yards long with one parking area.
Windows always open.
Customers pay me at the windows.
The council do them three times a year WFP and they hate it, and can't wait for me to tidy up!
I've got no chance on that one! ;D
I don't mind though.
It's just that so far I haven't needed the ladders.
I'm not putting them on until I have to.
-
Squeeks, if the council do it wfp, but they don't like it - chances are because you done them with the squeegee then when the council do it with the pole its gonna leave spots (also because the council boys probably don't know how to wfp - thats if the water is even purified at all). Try them a couple of times with the pole - I'd say they;ll come up fine.
150 yards? What length of hose you got? I do a nursing home about the same, parking area is at one end, I have another reel with 50m garden hose and I just use it as an extra long patch lead to my other reel (100m minibore). Flow is still the same but does take some winding in!!
-
Leaving ladders at home is a good way of really finding out which few you do need ladders for and make a note. Often you can reach over with the pole.
-
JM123.
Like I said, they pay me at the window.
I'd have to go in and knock at every wobbly infirm person's door afterwards and that would take a good 20-30 minutes.
What's the point in that?
They nearly all have their windows open, and they're new and stiff.
They don't like the pole anyway.
Why am I repeating all this...? ::)
-
if you drop your jobs that wont wfp you'll soon be very out of pocket, dont make the mistake & believe all the hype about you'll never need ladders again!
A window that has previousley been traded will have no bearing on the result of wfp, so to blame this is miss-informed. I trad some one month then wfp the next, done correctly the window should come up perfect, if not, its nothing to do with it beeing traded the month before. IMO, you should never clean the top frame or any vent wfp, this will certainly give you no end of hassle with spots, drips, smears etc. If you want me to explain how to wfp without cleaning the top frame i will, but in a seperate post. I wish you the best of luck with your wfp venture, but, as i'm sure you will soon learn, there are many different techniques to wfp & some very bemusing advise from people that have not much wfp experience (with the best of intentions of-course), if you choose to follow the masses, thats up to you.
Just think of all the excuses you are having to put to your customers about spots, runs etc, & all the excuses people use in general concerned with wfp, first cleans, second cleans, even THIRD cleans.People cleaning windows three times just to get them (almost) right!
there should actually be none of this, but like i say, if you want to follow the masses & all that.
good luck
tony
-
Well come on then Tony, do tell...
I've been totally cleaning all frames and vents.
I couldn't see how I could do just part the way up the top edge, surely dirt above will run down?
If you want to save arguements from others e-mail me it instead.
I'd appreciate some non-influenced advice.
Cheers.
-
Roger,
How did today go?
-
Rog, you're used to doing a good job, keep it up. Don't listen to all this controversial stuff about how far up or down to clean. Learn to keep the whole window clean just like you used to, in fact more so, because I'm sure there were some top frames you just couldn't quite get to at times off a ladder.
Now? CLEAN THEM! YEP, VENTS TOO! Tell your clients that when you do clean the top frames and vents there will be some minimal spotting, because you want to clean the whole frame and the vent cannot be avoided, but next time it will come up lovely. And keep it all clean. Don't talk rubbish to them. Most reasonable people respond better when they are informed.
Ideally, do the top of frames/vents, really rinse, then do the rest of the frame, rinse, then the glass, rinse, rinse, rinse. I'm sure Ian has told you how, he gave a really well thought out method of how to clean a window properly a short while ago.
Oh, and don't forget to rinse!
-
I did virtually what I would have done trad today.
Quite pleased.
Wasn't tired either. I could have worked on but I was out of water.
Still having spot prolems with metal frames though.
Upvc's fine(ish).
Cheers PJ. ;)
-
I must admit I cleaned a new one today and thought that I'd try avoiding the vents on a few to see how they came up, I looked at them when I'd done and was horrified spots and runs all down from the edge of the vents , they'd obviously got splashed and caused runs so I went back round them again, In future I'll stick to my tried and tested method of doing ALL the window and frame including the vent
Chris
-
you should never clean the top frame
Its industry standard practice to clean the frames (90% of windows)
How you clean your customer windows is up to you and them
However
How close is close to the top of the frame! I took over a job from a WFP user that didnt do the frames, and because it was a big job, the dirt built up around him (green and dirty frames and runs on the glass)
Andy
-
and rinse! ;)
with brush on or off? Who cares, just rinse!
-
My customers are ALWAYS impressed i do the frames wfp!
In fact when putting some of my prices up last year didnt lose many cos they said its a better job and were getting our frames cleaned too! It gives a better appearance to the whole house!............... If you dont believe me try it....Get two customers next door and do one all the frames and the other just glass! See for yourself!! Im not saying im the best wfper or right just view it as though you are the customer....although some dont care as long as they can see out their windows
All The Best Squeaky
-
Where vents are concerned, some I do, and some I avoid.
I think you get to know the ones that will cause you problems.
On a first time clean I will always try and do ABOVE the vents, I've developed a decent technique now and cope just fine.
If the vents are dirty I'll go back to them after gravity has done it's work and lightly re-clean the glass.
As we gain experience, we all develop little changes in technique that suit US personally, and we will all swear by our methods.
UPVC windows often oxidise, I personally cope just fine with them now.
Rog has had a problem with some patio doors that are aluminium, it doesn't necessarily mean the problem is the aluminium, it can also be the type of rubber seals that the window panes are held in place with, particularly on older aluminium windows.
Squeaks is learning fast though, but he's still got further to go than he realises!!
One tip I passed onto him (that he's ignored so far) is to have his microbore hose clipped in some fashion to his waist, to say this makes life easier is an understatement.
Because he's stripped the thread on his brush, he is treating the brush like fragile bone china :-\
I've tried to tell him how to connect up his lightweight gooseneck with the existing brush he is using...to no avail!
Not that he needs to use the gooseneck as such at the moment, but it's a bloody useful tool
He keeps getting an airlock that prevents the pump from working, this isn't the fault of the pump, but rather a combination af how is system is setup.
Clearing the airlock isn't hard, but he could make it easier for himself, (can't be bothered to explain how!)and he'll have to do it eventually...
He's a stuborn old bugger though...seems he is determined to learn by experience and not by advice!
But already he has started turning over (with less physical effort) virtually the same as he was doing trad, and even on first time cleans he is also beginning to get decent results...whats he going to be like in 5 or 6 weeks time?
some things he has struggled with, leaking windows and so on, but changing his technique may well negate that problem, in fact Squeaks has had more problems with leaks in one day than I have had in 3 years!!!!
Gotta go!
Taxi time :-\
Ian
-
Poor Squeaky..
Sounds like the report from a Psychiatrist! :o
-
Vents i had problems for about 3 months with them just coudn't get them right.
Now its easy i could do them with my eyes closed.
I find if you stand back further the angle of the jets are point more down wards and i now don't clean above the vent just to the top of the glass.
I also leave the brush on the window when i rinse that way no spray gets into the vents.
Give it a couple of months and you will look back and laugh at the problems you had.
We all go through it and eventually come out the other side knowing we are doing a top job every time.
Paul
-
I've never cleaned the top frame in over 3 years wfp, never been asked to, never offered to & most of all, i never made the mistake of selling clean frames to customers as a diversion from not perfect glass. I think its a mistake to over-sell wfp to customers as then you have to come up with the goods, month in month out, scrubbing vents/frames, rinse, rinse, rinse etc. most customers just want clean glass, no drips, no spots etc.
I took over some work from a "clean all frames" wfp'er, he had, at the time 2 years more wfp experience than me. after a while countless customers remarked to me how nice it was to not be left with dirty runs & spots on there windows. ;) not only that but i could do the work twice as fast as he too. I used to watch him scrubbing away at the top frame, flushing out the vents etc. then use 20 gallons rinsing!!
I'm not saying cleaning the top frame or vents will always give poor results, but more that it is imo a very un-nessesary risk. :-\
tony
-
Now I don't know what to do. ???
-
for now rog, until you're a bit more used to your equipment, try both. this way you will see for yourself which works best for you. I learned the hard way & i'm giving you the best advise i can from my own personal experience, (but then so is everyone else, probably) my method takes more accuracy & is best with a rectangular brush with pencil jets.this method saves time & less water is used to rinse. once mastered it pays back good style.
I would have to go into quite some detail with you to explain this method correctly, so see how you get on first with trying both methods.
one tip is to let the tops (not the ends) of the brisstles clean the beading at the top of the glass, but dont wet it through.
tony
-
I've read this whole thread several times. Same old story. Problems with wfp.
Yeah. WFP is the answer to all things window cleaning. I also use wfp so don't get me wrong.
I want as many as possible to start window cleaning using wfp. The more that do, the happier I am which is why forums like this are great.
I am so so happy I can still clean windows trad style. There's a growing and increasing fortune to earnt cleaning windows that way.
Cheers
-
Yes trads the best way to get up close and personal to the glass, it's just that some of us don't want to be humping a ladder about or risking our lives. Nothing wrong with either as far as I'm concerned.
-
I've read this whole thread several times. Same old story. Problems with wfp.
Yeah. WFP is the answer to all things window cleaning. I also use wfp so don't get me wrong.
I want as many as possible to start window cleaning using wfp. The more that do, the happier I am which is why forums like this are great.
I am so so happy I can still clean windows trad style. There's a growing and increasing fortune to earnt cleaning windows that way.
Cheers
Don't worry Ross, I can always change back again.
...and move to Brighton. ;D