Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: C-Thru. on March 23, 2007, 12:06:01 pm

Title: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: C-Thru. on March 23, 2007, 12:06:01 pm
OH S**T !!!
Just heard on the lunchtime news that the government is to widen the ban on use of water to washing windows, as they put it, should there be hose pipe ban this year.

Pray for rain fella's !!!!!!

Goochie.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Terry_Burrows on March 23, 2007, 01:28:32 pm
back to buckets then, again :o :-\
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pj on March 23, 2007, 01:38:22 pm
Don't you wish you'd bought an Ionics Pro 10?



NO! ;D


Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Trevor Knight on March 23, 2007, 03:18:52 pm
I wouldn't worry yourself about it.

Firstly, there would be a lot of window cleaners looking at government regarding stopping them working, there are so many people dependant on water for their trade, lets face it, if the water companies tightened up their leaks we would be millions of gallons better off for a start!!!

Secondly, before WFP we all used ladders so lets face it, if we were really stuck its out with the ladders and squeegee and back to our roots!!

Another point to consider, if the government stop us using water as our tool then are they going to ignore all the time and effort they have put into this WAH Directive???

Personally, I am not going to lose sleep on this one :o)

Trev
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Sunshine Cleaning on March 23, 2007, 04:38:58 pm
Me neither, Severn Trent Water say the work on the basis of 3 hosepipe bans per 100 years!!
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Neil Williams on March 23, 2007, 08:24:10 pm
Ditto. Can't realy add anymore to that.

I wouldn't worry yourself about it.

Firstly, there would be a lot of window cleaners looking at government regarding stopping them working, there are so many people dependant on water for their trade, lets face it, if the water companies tightened up their leaks we would be millions of gallons better off for a start!!!

Secondly, before WFP we all used ladders so lets face it, if we were really stuck its out with the ladders and squeegee and back to our roots!!

Another point to consider, if the government stop us using water as our tool then are they going to ignore all the time and effort they have put into this WAH Directive???

Personally, I am not going to lose sleep on this one :o)

Trev
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Llaaww on March 23, 2007, 08:42:55 pm
wfp
seems to use more water than I had in mind, but I am into it for 700 bucks, don't know if the old lady wants it , she is not happy. :-[ ??? :-[ ;)
what do you think
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on March 23, 2007, 08:52:24 pm
Trevor

Any chance of posting a bigger picture of your avatar, It would be nice to see it a bit clearer

DAVE
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Adam Boss on March 23, 2007, 08:56:38 pm
Should always have the trad method to fall back on. WFP is a tool and is an add-on and should not be for sole use for this reason alone. I use both and prefer trad because i give an excellent finish and use WFP for high or awkward cleans. IMO.
20 years and making a good living, ladders are fine if used in the correct manner, also if a ladder is used regularly then you become more proficient and not shake like a sh***ing dog whilst using them, it is then when only used every now and then that accidents can happen.

Regards

 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Russell Macdonald on March 23, 2007, 10:18:57 pm
Why should i take a risk going back on ladders when i have Wfp?

I will carry on even if they say i cant. Its my right to choose the safest method for me.

Macc
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: rugby on March 24, 2007, 01:14:57 am
compleatly agree,wfp is a big leap forwards in makeing window cleaning a much safer way to earn a living,and i have no intention of taking a leap backwards and risking my neck,end of
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: marcus hopkins on March 24, 2007, 01:45:00 am
A hosepipe ban is for hosepipes. I clean windows using wfp and if local authorities dont like it then they can stick it up their arses. I pay for the water i use end of story. I would take them to the court of human rights if needed, as my right is to work in a safe manner. It works in other work places so why not ours. The sooner the HSE ban ladders the better as then there will be no argument as to which is best as there would only be one way. THE SAFE WAY.

Marcus
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Londoner on March 24, 2007, 07:00:39 am
I heard about this on the radio on Friday. Its certainly one to keep an eye on because if it should happen it will be too late to change it.
During the last hosepipe ban all the car washes were still allowed to operate and they used much more water than we ever would.
I'm not convinced that it would just mean going back to ladders because the programme I was listening to implied it would be all window cleaning not just WFP.

Maybe its time to invest in that carpet cleaning machine I have been thinking about.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Adam Boss on March 24, 2007, 07:12:59 am
Macc,

this is not a dig mate but you contradicted yourself, you use ladders every day,


   Re: Ladders
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 10:14:32pm »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ladders will not be banned.

I'm 100% Wfp but my ladders came off the roof  4 times today, i could not do my job without them.

Its not the ladders that need banning, its the idiot using them.

Macc


Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Davew on March 24, 2007, 07:19:45 am
What about all the industries that use water? We have seven industrial ro units running day and night in our print firm. I bet engineering firms use gallons for cooling. The worst offenders must be companies using large pressure washers or what about the rich b****rds with their swimming pools? If the water companies didn't watch it all drain away during the winter there would be plenty for everyone.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Londoner on March 24, 2007, 07:29:26 am
Thats why we have to do something before it happens. When the ban comes in its too late. The trouble is these firms are doing their stuff behind closed doors. We do it out in the street where everyone can see us.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: pylofm on March 24, 2007, 08:19:55 am
Or move here to Holland we have more water than you can shake a carbon fibre pole at  ;D ;D ;D

If I dig to deep in the garden it's technically a well !!

Cheers
Dave.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Ian_Giles on March 24, 2007, 10:01:10 am
If you have a dozen window cleaners in an average size town that are all using WFP I would say that the average usage of water would be about 350 litres, take waste into account while producing the water and we will each be using ...say...a 1000 litres a day tops.

during the summer, if you have...what?...between four and five thousand homes?
Well if a dozen of those homes decide to put the sprinker on their gardens or lawns for 5 or 6 hours, each one is going to use somewhere in the region of a thousand litres of water an hour :o :o
If I stick the hosepipe into my thousand litre tank it'll be filled up in way less than an hour!

If a single householder left his sprinkler on overnight, he would use more water in 12 hours than all the window cleaners in his town would use put together.

WE would use perhaps that 1000 litres...compare that to factories that use several million litres per day, what the window cleaner will use is a totally piddling amount of water by any comparison.

hosepipe bans on households makes sense, if you go out and clean your car with the hosepipe you'll use a few hundred litres of water in the 15 minutes or so it'll take, if you have several hundred people doing the same thing it adds up to a lot of water, same with with having a several hundred watering their gardens.

So the savings are considerable, but yet again, what we use is a drop in the ocean.

I ain't losing any sleep over it either...though I also live in an area where supply isn't a problem, if I lived in the South east I might sweat a bit though!

Ian
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 24, 2007, 10:41:28 am
If you have a dozen window cleaners in an average size town that are all using WFP I would say that the average usage of water would be about 350 litres, take waste into account while producing the water and we will each be using ...say...a 1000 litres a day tops.

during the summer, if you have...what?...between four and five thousand homes?
Well if a dozen of those homes decide to put the sprinker on their gardens or lawns for 5 or 6 hours, each one is going to use somewhere in the region of a thousand litres of water an hour :o :o
If I stick the hosepipe into my thousand litre tank it'll be filled up in way less than an hour!

If a single householder left his sprinkler on overnight, he would use more water in 12 hours than all the window cleaners in his town would use put together.

WE would use perhaps that 1000 litres...compare that to factories that use several million litres per day, what the window cleaner will use is a totally piddling amount of water by any comparison.

hosepipe bans on households makes sense, if you go out and clean your car with the hosepipe you'll use a few hundred litres of water in the 15 minutes or so it'll take, if you have several hundred people doing the same thing it adds up to a lot of water, same with with having a several hundred watering their gardens.

So the savings are considerable, but yet again, what we use is a drop in the ocean.

I ain't losing any sleep over it either...though I also live in an area where supply isn't a problem, if I lived in the South east I might sweat a bit though!

Ian

I would do more than swear a bit Ian living in the southeast.  I would blag my way around and work illegally until caught.  Then I would have to consider whether to continue breaking the law, end up homeless, or both.  No doubt about it.  Although I now keep up with my finances, even a shortish period unable to work would bankrupt me.  But why should those self pleasurers in their cosy warm offices give a toss about the likes of me?
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: marc al on March 24, 2007, 11:29:47 am
  If I am forced back onto ladders I will go the "cowboy" route, i.e I will fold my business, start taking all the benefits I can find and work from ladders for cash only.

   I know this sounds bad, but if the government is ready to shaft the little man instead of tackle the real core issues of the problem then I am going to take my compensation.

    Marc
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Adam Boss on March 24, 2007, 01:45:40 pm
A hose pipe ban should not be a problem, it's when a drought order comes into force, then there will be major problems.  :( :(

Regards
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 24, 2007, 02:37:59 pm
A hose pipe ban should not be a problem, it's when a drought order comes into force, then there will be major problems.  :( :(

Regards

So I understand but the original poster indicated that the rules were changing.  A hosepipe ban only affects WFP users if working directly from the mains (a few trollies with DI in soft water areas do work this way).  A portable water tank has not been the subject of hosepipe bans previously.  Even in a drought order there was a three phase system introduced (a concession from the water company as I understand it).  A hosepipe ban did stop people connecting a hose to a mains tap and hosing the windows down.  If that is what the original poster heard about then that is nothing new.  The concern is if they are referring to a change of regulations that affects window cleaning even when the equipment is NOT directly connected to the mains.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: riz on March 24, 2007, 03:48:01 pm



I would exercise my right to silence as to where the water came from!!
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Russell Macdonald on March 24, 2007, 04:07:13 pm
Macc,

this is not a dig mate but you contradicted yourself, you use ladders every day,


   Re: Ladders
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 10:14:32pm »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ladders will not be banned.

I'm 100% Wfp but my ladders came off the roof  4 times today, i could not do my job without them.

Its not the ladders that need banning, its the idiot using them.

Macc




For access mate on to a roof, not working off them, those days are long gone.

Macc
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Adam Boss on March 24, 2007, 05:22:09 pm
Macc,
Dosen't matter how you use them, you can still fall off them.!!
Access is using them for work.

Adam  ::) ::)
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Russell Macdonald on March 24, 2007, 06:53:22 pm
Macc,
Dosen't matter how you use them, you can still fall off them.!!
Access is using them for work.

Adam  ::) ::)

Adam,

Yes your right but 4 times in 1 day is a lot less risk than 200 times in 1 day.

I stand my ground, ladders should not be band but some pen pusher is not going to tell me back on ladders or the dole. I have Wfp so i reduse my risk. If it comes to it its a Human Rights issue.

Macc
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: marc on March 24, 2007, 09:48:24 pm
im with you marcus you make a lot of sence well said
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Londoner on March 25, 2007, 07:31:17 am
Lets get down to basics. Who is actually in charge of deciding what is and what isn't allowed should there be another hosepipe ban?

We should get in contact with them and get a copy of the draft proposals. Last time I believe Steve Lowe went to see someone on behalf of us all. He would be the person to talk to. I believe he's on the other forum these days, I will try and contact him.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: simon knight on March 25, 2007, 02:07:06 pm

I live in the Thames Water area and we had a ban for the best part of last year.
OK I couldn't water my garden using a hosepipe...but i could if i used a bucket.
I couldn't clean my car using a hosepipe...but i could if i used a bucket....

But guess what?...I COULD use my power blaster to clean my patio!!! And why?

Because according to Thames Water cleaning a patio is a health and safety issue and therefore falls outside of the ban.

Now whether or not cleaning windows using wfp is considered a H&S issue and therefore also falls outside of a hosepipe ban I don't know but it's academic for you guys. From what I understand you make up your pure water at home...how on Earth are the authorities gonna know whether you used a bucket (legal) or a hosepipe to fill to fill your tank?

Much ado about nothing if you ask me.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: cybersye on March 25, 2007, 03:41:25 pm
I'm down in the south east and not sure if we had anymore than a hose pipe ban in place last year.
One thing I remember whist the whole drought issue was going on was a local tv news clip highlighting the madness of water wastage, there was a clay quarry pumping out thousands of galllons day and night into a neighbouring stream, experts were saying that water quality was certainly as good maybe better than out of the tap, locals were filling up barrels where it entered the stream and I seem to remember there was a legal rangle going on as to whether it was theft or trespassing!
 :o ??? ::)
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Paul Coleman on March 25, 2007, 04:00:20 pm
I'm down in the south east and not sure if we had anymore than a hose pipe ban in place last year.
One thing I remember whist the whole drought issue was going on was a local tv news clip highlighting the madness of water wastage, there was a clay quarry pumping out thousands of galllons day and night into a neighbouring stream, experts were saying that water quality was certainly as good maybe better than out of the tap, locals were filling up barrels where it entered the stream and I seem to remember there was a legal rangle going on as to whether it was theft or trespassing!
 :o ??? ::)

A number of water companies were granted drought orders but only one (Sutton & East Surrey) actually activated it.  It was activated in three phases but only the first one ever happened so it ended up not being too much more restrictive than a hosepipe ban.  The only consequence I was aware of was that carwashes without a water recycling unit were closed down until they had one fitted.  Also, the carwash guys in the supermarket car parks had to work from IBC tanks rather than directly from the mains.  The only window cleaners that would have been affected were those who had the type of trolley that had a DI unit that was connected to a tap.  It's unlikely that there were any as the southeast is all hard water anyway.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: JohnL on March 25, 2007, 06:31:13 pm
The discussion I heard on the radio last week  - and it was only very brief - that certain uses of water would be prohibited and included was the cleaning of windows. There was no wfp or trad mentioned, just window cleaning.    :(
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on March 25, 2007, 06:53:42 pm
I think you will find it was Cleaning windows by means of an hose pipe connected to the mains.

Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Ian Lancaster on March 25, 2007, 07:57:05 pm
Let's stop panicking about hosepipe bans ::)

We had a hosepipe ban in the South East for two years on the trot.  How many window cleaners did it affect?

A hose pipe is only a hose pipe if it's connected to the mains.

A WFP system is technically a "bowser and dowser".  In other words a powered watering system attached to an independent reservoir of water.  You have a tank of water in your van/trolley/backpack, you attach a pump, either electric or hand operated, and a means of directing the water where you want it - a watering wand, or a WFP.

Provided your pole isn't directly connected to the mains water, there's no problem.

There could be a bit of a problem if you have a van mounted RO and you run a hose pipe to your van to fill your holding tank via your RO.

Solution? Get a static purification system and storage IBC in your garden/shed or wherever, and then pump the pure water into a tank in your van.  If your static system is plumbed into the mains, you can't be accused of using a hose pipe.

It's only when the situation becomes critical and the Government grants water companies Drought Orders that it could affect us, and then all water users are affected, not just window cleaners.

Cheers,

Ian
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: AuRavelling79 on March 26, 2007, 01:04:06 pm
A hosepipe ban is for hosepipes. I clean windows using wfp and if local authorities dont like it then they can stick it up their arses. ...
Marcus

Firstly - They can't get you for assault, Marcus that's just overzealous colonic irrigation.  ;D

Secondly - Let's imagine the world comes crashing down on wfp and little old ladies with (redundant) umbrellas start beating us with them because we "waste water" - well I could survive a few months without going up a ladder or using wfp - how?

By doing downstairs only trad. and charging about 2/3 the rate for the whole house. (Typically houses have more windows downstairs (inc. doors) than up.)

Bit more time at the beach and eating ice cream!

Malc Gold of the "Positive like Lieutenant George "a.k.a Hugh Laurie" in Blackadder IV" class.
Title: Re: HOSE PIPE BAN...!!!!!!!!!
Post by: colley614 on March 26, 2007, 04:59:26 pm
Well they'll have fun trying to get me to stop using water. I've had a leak in the water pipes in my back garden since my grandad owned the house forty years ago. So if they tell me I can't use the water because I'm wasting it. I will politely remind them that they have refused to fix that pipe for forty years now. Who wastes more water?