Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: rs_cleancare on March 16, 2007, 01:30:41 pm
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I have been in bussiness for almost 3 years and have not yet cleaned any leather (except my own).
Booked my first clean for a five seater corner unit.
It's cream and one of these cheap land of leather sofas.
The method i was going to use is:
pre vac down the edges
Clean with prochem leather cleaner applied by nappies
Finally apply prochem conditioner with nappies.
It has a small spot of nail varnish on it so I didn't make any promises about removing it what would you use to try and remove the nail polish.
Is there anything to look out for or any other methods to make the job easier.
What would you do to make the job look a little more fancy than just strolling in armed with a couple of bottles and a hand full of nappies.
Finally how long should it take?
I guesstemated at 3hrs £140.
Rob.
Rob.
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prochem leather cleaner is crap i used to use it all the time didnt know any better then i tried leather cleaner and protection cream from furniture clinc ,100 times better plus the protecton cream leaves a nice smell. darren
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as the man says , furniture clinic is the bizz, speak to ben,
he will set u up with the right stuff,
and will teach u , for a fee of course regards .
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If you would like to know the correct cleaning methods and + what results to expect, please give me a ring on 01423 881027.
Regards
Judy Bass
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Yes I confirm furniture clinic are the boys to speak too.Ben is very helpful and knows his stuff
http://www.furnitureclinic-trade.co.uk/
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furniture clinic better product and cheaper.
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This post is specifically aimed at Steve Gunn, Darren 72, Vanguard.
Thank you for all your comments regarding Furnitrue Clinics products and Bens ability.
BUT there does seem to be a bit of a mystery that we have been unable to resolve. Exactly where has Ben come from and where did he get his knowledge and experience. Up until Furniture Clinic appeared (2 years ago???) there had been no mention or knowledge of him in the cleaning or furniture industry to our knowledge so could someone please explain what his training was, who he worked for prior to Furniture Clinic and for how long and in what capacity?
We are quite willing to acknowledge him as an expert if he will let us know exactly how he became one. Other people we know such as Leather Master UK, Multimaster, Fenice we openly acknowledge as having very good expertise in the industry and happily talk with their training staff. There is plenty of business to go around without all the backbiting that is going on. If everyone is open about who they are and where they come from the industry will be able to make up its own mind where the expertise lays.
Regards
Judy
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judy dont no the guy personally couldnt care less what he was doing 2 years ago i just think his products are realy good sorry if that upsets you at the end of the day its only my opinion.darren
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Darren
I appreciate what you say but there needs to be a certain amount of knowledge to give good product support for when unexpected things happen as they often do when cleaning and it is this that concerns us.
Have you tried ours? LTT leather protector is the most effective on the market currently, in fact we are now reformulating to produce an even more effective one. Cheaper leather products are generally less effective and less economical than ones that are produced with the correct chemicals but if you are happy with the ones you are using then that is fine.
Regards
Judy
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Rob, the method you are suggesting will be fine for 90% of the suites you find in customers homes. hopefully this suite won't be one of the other 10% ;)
I would clean an area in a non-seen area first then compare it to the rest tof the suite if its the same then continue.
this is just my advice and I'm no expert so it might be worth contacting either Furniture clinic or LTT
as you can see Furniture clinic has some friends on this site who will testify that the sun shines out of Bens bottom :D ;D and are a little biased
I'm friends with neither of them and I've done courses with both companies, LTTs course was without a doubt the most thorough and professional, after completing the leather cleaning course with F/C I did'nt feel confident in my knowledge of leather to be able to go out and charge for my service, so booked a course with LTT.
I wouldn't normally make this sort of comment but something needs to be said to redress the balance due to the obvious friends that F/C has, I don't want to make this thread into 'LTT-V-Furniture Clinic' so I'll say no more.
I'm sure Rob you an intelligent gentlemen, so make your own mind up who to call
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Judy
What backbiting rs asked
"Is there anything to look out for or any other methods to make the job easier" and people have replied by recommending Ben at furniture clinic ???
I believe Ben has already explained whether it be on this or another forum where he came from.There are plenty guys out there cleaning carpets who have no formal training but they know their stuff John Bolton for instance.
The reason I recommend Ben is I recently rang yourselves about some aniline dyes and was told you would ring me back you didn't so why would I recommend a company that cannot be bothered to return my call?
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I once asked for some ink off and general leather cleaner samples, was told they'd arrive - didn't though.
But furniture clinic's did.
Although I found a better cleaner elsewhere.
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no war of attrition here .
just that i use all off f/c cleaning materials, on leathers i clean and ,
ask what the customer. thinks of the result, and they are amased.
judy question, if u are so confident in your course content
why dont you drop your price, as we have to travel , 2 day course, b/b
loss of work etc, the total loss would be over a grand.
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Judy,
I've never claimed to be an expert. And to be honest, does it really matter where I came from or got my training and expertise. Where did you get yours? I've even explained it to you before, have you forgotten?
For the benefit of all interested parties I will explain my company below.
About 15 years ago my father started a promotional company to promote cleaning products for wood. Something he had previous experience in. After doing that for a year or two he began to develop his range to include leather.
To do this he employed the help of a good friend who has a degree in chemistry and at the time was working for earnshaws. At earnshaws he developed all the colours, finishes, pigments, dyes, compounds etc etc to be used in leather. Earnshwas were one of the worlds leading companies in leather finishes before being bought out several years ago by clariant.
Clariant, now using the products we developed export these world wide and are one of the worlds largest companies in the leather industry. far bigger than the likes of companies you mentioned.
To sum it up, the products we make are the SAME products being used by all the tanneries around the world. We continually develop these products to improve our range.
Darren who is our technical guy has about 20 years expereince developing products for leather. My father Keith has about 12 years experience in the industry. I have 4 years.
We also have 3 other members of staff. One full time person using our colour matching machine. Another who handles all our packaging and despatch and another who does bottling and labelling.
All products we have developed ourselves and so there is no one who could have trained us. All knowledge and skill is self taught through many years in the industry...........mainly trial and error.
Because we make the product ourselves we adjust them with customer feedback so we continue to improve things...........we are not restricted in anyway or reliant upon other manufacturers. This is also the reason why our prices are a lot more competitive.
The reason why we only appeared on this forum and advetising to other cleaners 2 years ago is because we only realised the demand in the market when we were told by a cleaner who called round our premises. before that we really only supplied direct to the public, we also supplied bulk chemicals to to other companies in the indusrty who I cannot name for confidentiality reasons.
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Thank you now we are all clear about where we stand.
Thanks Mike for your kind comments about our course.
LTT do not give free samples away as without the correct knowledge there would be no real way to test the products one against the other.
We have no need to drop our course price as all our courses are fully booked and are very good value for money and judging by the number of places we have just booked at the Cleaning Show still very much in demand. (The show offer price is still available for those that might be interested)
Steve your query about aniline dyes was I believe about price. As you have our price list from doing our course I did not realise there was anything to answer.
if you have a further query please ask away.
Regards
Judy
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I have attended both the Leather cleaning course and repair course with Furniture Clinic, and am satisfied that the imformation and content of both courses were upto standard having liased with someone who has attended similar courses with "another" company.
The products are both effective and represent great value for money, and it is evident that Ben and Co have invested alot of time and money into the business.
I did feel the course would benefit to some extent in structure and presentation, but as we are all aware a business develops and refines processes over time, and as has already been pointed out, this is a young business.
I am still amazed at the comments made by LT&T over the past months. Although I haven't met these guys, I am sure their products and training are top notch, but wouldn't consider using them whilst they continue to respond negatively and immaturely to a worthy competitor.
My Opinion.
Tony.
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after completing the leather cleaning course with F/C I did'nt feel confident in my knowledge.
Mike, I realise that but it was the first course we had ran so it was very new to us. We did subsidise that with nearly £100's worth of free product. After running 2 courses a month since and many other bespoke courses we are very confident in our ability to teach now.
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Thank you now we are all clear about where we stand.
LTT do not give free samples away as without the correct knowledge there would be no real way to test the products one against the other.
We have no need to drop our course price as all our courses are fully booked and are very good value for money.
Steve your query about aniline dyes was I believe about price. As you have our price list from doing our course I did not realise there was anything to answer.
if you have a further query please ask away.
Regards
Judy
No it wasn't about price it was quantity needed and some advice on best way to tackle job as there were some quite bad stains,writing and cigarette burns.Even if the query was about price would it not have been good manners to return the call?
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Thanks for all your replies!
It has turned in to a debate between to companys which i'm sure both have good knowledge and products.
I always belive in recomendations as this is where I get a lot of my work from.
Don't have time now to order some new chemicals as the job is on Monday so looks like i'm stuck with good old prochem.
I have thought about in the past going on a leather course but as i don't advertise leather I never get the call.
Perhaps i may be missing out on a lucrative part of the market?
How long would this job take you?
Rob.
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I did a large eight seater with stool -2 days.
Regards
Mark
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Rob,
Theres definately a market out there. If you want to use our products we can get them to you by monday morning. Just call us tomorrow.
I'd just like to mention something. Leather is the most easiest thing to clean. If you just want to clean it then don't be scared. Ask anyone who cleans leather...........its so straight forward and simple.
You just wipe your cleaner on, apply a protector and you're done. All I say is to do a pre test before doing the job. As a rule of thumb, without training, just drop a drop of leather cleaner on the leather, if its absorbed its going to be difficult to clean, if it is retained on the surface, it will be dead easy. No training is really that necessary if you just want to clean leather.
Training is necessary if you want to be able to clean and/or repair the leather that may turn up some problems. But you pre tests will tell you if its goind to be problamatic.
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In two years of being in the carpet cleaning business, and have a half page ad the the YP. I have only done 2 leather cleaning jobs!
So whats the secret in trying to get people to have their leather cleaned?
Or should I ask for those that do alot of leather cleaning, whats your way of pushing it?
I only ask it's it's a nice peaceful job to do rather than a TM blasting away in your earhole ;D
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Thanks Ben.
You jogged my memory from when i was on an NCCA and it was mentioned about if the leather absorbs or not.
They wasn't supposed to cover leather but questions kept coming so they answered them.
I'm sure if i use a little caution all will be fine and if the leather starts to absorb then maybe i'll run for the door ;D
Rob.
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Hi Benny,
I think the problem is that most customers think that leather is an indestructible material that never needs attention! We know different of course!
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Approach it like you would any upholstery job. Check somewhere that doesn't show. Most Anilines & pigmented finishes are fine and should respond well to gentle cleaning. The moisture test is a good indicator. Any indications of it being a Nubuck and I would be inclined to walk. Great comfort but a bugger to clean!!
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Havnt cleaned a leather suite since before xmas,
strange i got 3 leather suites booked in yesterday :)
good old m/s will do the job along with autoglym conditioner,
all tried and tested ;D
Geoff
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Mark
What exactly did you do to this suite that took 2days....................12 hours?............leather normally cleans considerably more quickly, than fabrics.
rob
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Hi Rob,
It was worth 13k - Light Blue - I vacuumed, cleaned with ultra clean on some areas up to six times - then protected. It was a particularly messy leather Job - the picture - the dog uses it to sleep on - the four sons use it for every thing including nose deposits - charged them for two days but they got there monies worth.
Regards
Mark
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2 hours on a very dirty suite. is the norm for me.
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Mark
It does seem like an excessive time, maybe we can help next week on the leather seminar you are coming to.
Look forward to seeing you all - emails with details going out now.
Regards
|Judy
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Judy
Don't you sleep?
rob
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interesting sites
www.leathermasteruk.com/problemsolver.htm (http://www.leathermasteruk.com/problemsolver.htm)
www.leathermasteruk.com/leathertypes.htm (http://www.leathermasteruk.com/leathertypes.htm)
mike
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Don’t know what all the fuss it about! Talking to a customer today I asked her how she cleaned her leather suit? Reply with milk :o will say it did look good for 8yrs old and four kids.
Rs-Rob
Hope you are using the Eco friendly type ;D
http://www.spiritofnature.co.uk/acatalog/biodegradablenappies.html?source=googleadw&camp=Disposable+Nappies&kw=nappies
Len
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Rob,
I'd just like to mention something. Leather is the most easiest thing to clean. If you just want to clean it then don't be scared. Ask anyone who cleans leather...........its so straight forward and simple.
You just wipe your cleaner on, apply a protector and you're done. All I say is to do a pre test before doing the job. As a rule of thumb, without training, just drop a drop of leather cleaner on the leather, if its absorbed its going to be difficult to clean, if it is retained on the surface, it will be dead easy. No training is really that necessary if you just want to clean leather.
So from the above statement, any type of leather cleaner can be used on any type of leather, as long as it stays on the surface, its dead easy & simple, rule of thumb of course.
I hope all those who take such information on board and now run around attempting to clean the nations leather after having received such in-depth knowledge, have up to date insurance.
There is a little bit more to it than a liquid staying on top of leather, just pop a bit of nail varnish remover on it too, that won't be absorbed either. At least not untill the damage is done.
A very misleading statement to make, and something that can cause a lot of damage to the poor individual who follows it.
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Len
I was told by a client years ago that a salesman told them to use milk...........but I owned a dairy business many years ago and if all traces of milk were not steamed away from the vans and the clothes all washed daily the stunk the following day.
rob
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Keith,
I didn't say any cleaner. I said leather cleaner. If a product is designed for leather it cannot cause damage. And as I said in my post you do a test first. if it shows problems walk away.
THE TEST WILL PREVENT ANY DAMAGE FROM OCCURING AS YOU WOULD NOT CLEAN THE SOFA IF IT SHOWED PROBLEMS.
Another thing. You mention;
So from the above statement, any type of leather cleaner can be used on any type of leather, as long as it stays on the surface
Knowing your leather types would make this more clear. If the cleaner is retained on the leathers surface, it is either a pigmented, by cast, finished split or semi aniline leather, and so would be easy to clean. Any problems would be identified in your test.
And more
There is a little bit more to it than a liquid staying on top of leather, just pop a bit of nail varnish remover on it too, that won't be absorbed either. At least not untill the damage is done.
I said leather cleaner. nail varnish remover is not a leather cleaner.
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I once went to a customer who had burst a biro on her leather sofa. She had made a right mess trying to clean it with milk .She had used a full pint on it because one of her friends told her it removed ink off leather ::).
Some one was having a laugh or there are some strange ideas out there.
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Someone mentioned milk to me at the cleaning show! I've heard them all supplying the public.
- Lemon Juice is popular
- Petrolium Jelly
- A lot of people using washing up liquid
- a few idiots have used bleach!
- baby wipes
lots more but can't remember them right now
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YEP
Heard them all over, the past twenty years, the most destructive has been Fairy which seems to by quite abrasive.
rob
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On a job this week customer asked if I could also clean an area where she dropped a plate full of curry and tried to clean it, as you can imagine my first food of thoughts, supermarket products yes you are right but wrong! Arial she used came up like a dream.
Ben
It wasn’t me, did not go to the show.
Paul
Was it full cream or sterilised.
Rob
May be kind to your hands but crap on car paintwork, can causes swirling. You can’t beat autoglem and cotton wool.
Len
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Hi Everyone
Im new to this forum but i've got a fair few years experience in the field.
Anyway , I've also got some holiday cottages so last year I had to buy 9 , 2 seater leather suites, italian jobs , not cheap but not expensive -middle of the road stuff, the supplier was a very well respected furniture store locally , I asked how do I maintain them(as I have zero experience with leather), the boss replies ' big bucket of water and some fairy once a year & just give it a good scrubbing' alarm bells rang straight away as I know the damage fairy does to carpets.
My point is if the proffesional retailing trade have these ideas regarding maintanance & cleaning then there's no wonder there's lack of information for the consumer, as a consumer you surley listen to the guy you brought the product from.
Maybee these 'Leather experts' might think of chanelling their expertiese towards the retail sector as well as us cleaners. :(
Geraint Jones
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Good morning Geraint
Unfortunately, the consumer is dependent on the people he deals with, at the buying stage and, as is usually the case, no training has been done, regards cleaning and maintenance of the products.
The emphasis is on selling the advantages and benefits, which we know, could include, ease of maintenance.
Unfortunately again , this area has been hi jacked over the past thirty years, by national companies, who sell the consumer a form of insurance / maintenance plan and the retailer gains additional revenue from these sales.
Also, the retailer is able to avoid the hassles of customer complaints, by passing them to the " maintenance provider " So they avoid the need and expense, of adding maintenance, to product knowledge, at the staff training stage.
At our level, there is very little we can do..............or is there ?
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Lots of retailers sell leather care kits. Others don't as they know that leathers easy to clean, and so just tell the customer to wipe it over with something. Normally just a damp cloth.
I've never heard of a retailer recommending fairy liquid, although lots of custmers tell me they use it, so that may be where the advise is coming from.
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I think most sell kits, Ben............for the salesman, it's an add on, which means, more commision.......as you know, they can get as much as £50 for a little box, that gets used once and stuck in a cupboard, then produced, when we ask " what do you use to clean your suite "
rob
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I have used Chemspecs leather cleaner and conditioner and have attended the chemspecs leather cleaning course, but this stuff can leave the leather a bit sticky! I have used Prochems leather cleaner and conditioner and got good results ! but the best I have found was one from research Products ie Dry-Fusion they do one called Tanners choice cleaner and conditioner and then you can apply a cream protector
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On returning a rug today just had to ask the customer who recommended milk!!
(Me thinking it was JL as most things come from that store even down to the vacuum, kitchen-sink talk as ken puts it) once again I was wrong it came from a custom & bespoke company dating back 75 years that recommended it! (Looked at their web site not the run of the mill high street nor sales person)
If the suppliers on this forum want a lead to them send me e-mail if any thing comes from it payment in kind and will be declared.
Len
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Len.........
As I said, I had a dairy business years ago and if not thoroughly cleaned, ie, steamed , milk stinks, unless there's something we don't know, going on...............
Why don't you sell it to Ben and Judy, as a new Bio degradeable product with miraculous qualities, have you tried it on carpets, fabric suites, etc, this could save the planet !
rob
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Rob
It’s very rare that I do leather, I do carry two brands but no expert, :-[did not ask the question with customer how she applied it and dilution rate, as did not want to intruded as the customer is valued big time. The offer too J and B are there.
Trick of the trade are best kept secret!
Len
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If the suppliers on this forum want a lead to them send me e-mail if any thing comes from it payment in kind and will be declared.
There are loads of furniture retailers that don't sell kits. They can't be bothered to sell a kit for £30 when they sell a sofa for £3000. Its an insgnificant amount.
The shops know the kits are available they just don't want to sell them. I appreciate the offer, but I can't see them changing their mind now. thanks anyway.
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I am certainly getting more work in leather cleaning & colour repair of late without really pushing it , mainly word getting round that I do it. Last week I cleaned & refinished 20ish wing back antique effect chairs for a hotel. This week coming already got 2 suites booked in to clean ,1 to quote, & dye transfer from cushions to sort out on a cream settee.
I started doing courses in 2003 & have done about 6 days courses since then & intend to carry on doing refresher days periodically to keep learning. Cost wise I have certainly got my money back and more besides & think there is as much work out there as I want to push for.It takes time to pick up the skills involved & more time to practice them to get the experience which is difficult to do when looking after your core carpet & upholstery work.
Refering to another topic on the go at present about pricing- I would say I was doing some of these jobs for less than I could charge but realise I am still learning hence take longer & view them as good experience . When I feel totally confident I will be looking at premium rates & willl deserve them.
Mike
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Back to the original argument, LTT or Furniture Clinic:
I have used LTT and found them to be very professional, I use their products, especially the protecter.
However I also use the Extracta cleanser which I find to be more effective than the Maxi that LTT supply, it also came out better in Andy's test when I took a sample down on the course.
I met Ben from the Furniture Clinic for the first time at the NEC on Wednesday, purchased a tub of navy balm from him for my own leather suite which is looking quite "distressed" and I must say the results are significant, even the mother in law commented on the change!!!
We probably do 1 leather suite a week, against 4-5 material suites. People don't always realise that there is a professional cleaning service available, even if you do advertise the fact.
I fully advocate a pre-inspection for all leather cleaning so that you can get an idea of what's in store for your clean and prepare accordingly.
I can see me using a mixture of suppliers in the future for my leather cleaning needs, similar to all the other cleaning services we supply. Wouldn't life be boring if we all used the same machinery. chemicals, techniques, vehicles, clothing, etc, etc, etc!!!
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Well said Mike.........a very businesslike and mature attitude, which should benefit you greatly, as you develop yourself and your business.
rob
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Did my first leather suite today fantastic results could not have tackled it without the encouragment and training i recieved fron Andy of LTT.
Many thanks to all.
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my two pen'th is that i me the guys from furniture clinic at the show and they couldn't have been more helpful, i got about a courseful of answers from them until i got too embarrased to ask any more question for free!! but also last year i had a problem with a possible clean of nubuc and LTT could not have been more helpful, i 'phoned them about 3 times to pose questions about the job and they gave me all the help i asked for. i would try each ones cleaning chemicals and see which you prefer but then comes the question of who's course to go on!!
colin
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I went along to the LTT stand at the show and spoke to a lady about a training course, to be honest she wasn't over helpful , gave me a brochure and that was basically it , asked further questions and was told the relevant info was in the brochure , I'd didn't really inspire me to sign up so i'm now looking at other options, they might be very professional but in this industry customer service is also high up the ladder I would have thought.
I was always taught not to take any one foregranted.
Geraint
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I do not want to be the heavey handed moderator, but i have decided to lock this topic.
As far as I know both companies offer training. and each has their strengths .
There are also other companies who do training.