Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: drakestar! on March 14, 2007, 03:56:18 pm
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ive got a nice long road which ive had for 6years, 8 out of 10 houses i clean. converted them all 2 wfp, now 6months in & no probs but last month i lose 1 who says shes into conserving water then yesterday over the road shes sends her hubby out 2 say the same! ive told them in a polite way im into conserving my life & keeping to the law so wont be getting up any ladders anymore just worrying coz i dont want to lose anymore! and before u ask there spotless!
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Maybe it was just an excuse and wanted to stop there window cleaning anyway.
Plenty more customers around the corner.
paul
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nope they have replaced me already with trad wcs
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Some people just dont like wfp. One day they may have the choice of wfp or nothing but at the moment they can choose traditional and as they pay the bill that's fine by me.
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true but whats the point of getting wfp unless you use it? if i get the ladder out ill just be making a rod for my back
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I think it's rare, but you only need one in a small road badmouthing wfp sometimes they all join in. same happened to me. I don't care. ;D
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In a few months time they will have clean windows with dirty frames or even worse dirty windows and frames as the new trad window cleaner might have packed in. Then show your existing customers the benefits that wfp offers ie the nice shiny frames.
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It's going to happen. Don't fret about it.
I'm not kidding myself that I'm going to keep all my accounts when I change over.
I'll just have more time to find some better work. ;)
If I was paying someone, I'd rather see a guy work his ass off trad than pay someone to do some sweeping. :-\
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I got wfp to do windows that I could not access from ladders, or indeed ones that I considered too dangerous to ladder, that way I could offer a more complete service to my customers and not have to miss any windows.
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Could you not tell them you purify water from your "Rain water recycling system" because of you concern for water wastage? Lol!!
After all,.. what comes out of the tap technically did start off as rain at some point in the past!
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I had the same, so I told them I draw the water from the well at the bottom of my garden, and I have to pay the £1,500 for an extraction license, she was pleased with this and kept me on.
I omitted to tell her I also have pixies at the bottom of my garden as well ;D ;D :)
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jeff i like your style i will next time
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Wasting water? What a load of old cobblers. There isn't a single drop less today than there was four and a half billion years ago. I hope you mixed up her recycling bins on the way out.
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anyone changing over to wfp should read this post to help them make a more realistic decission, this will happen, why would the customer want their walls/sills left dripping or her decking/patio left wet through etc, etc. when she could have them done trad without any of this oh, & her windows be left dry too.
Too many people on this forum only blart on about the benefits of wfp, but there are many down-sides too.
Any potential wfp converter should never assume its the be all & end all of window cleaning, its not.
I'm wfp + trad (before the barrage of abuse begins) :o
tony
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I had about a 5% turnaround in my customer base in the first few months of WFP (some of it my choice). There were also some grumbles after first cleans though they are fine now I've been using it a while. No-one used the water conservation argument with me though - even though there was a drought order covering part of my round and a hosepipe ban over all of it.
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I lost a customer after I cleaned her top windows with my wfp-she said all the windows were streaky-couldn't get a word in edgeways as I was trying to tell her I needed to go go back for a 2nd clean-turned out she'd cleaned the outside with windowleen earlier on (tilt & turn windows)-still when they've made up their minds!-not worth arguing over a fiver.
Regards Tony
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ive lost 7 out of 300 customers but out of the 50 or so gained since wfp not lost any of them.
If they dont moan about wfp they would of moaned about something else
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In June it will be 3 years since I moved over to WFP. In that time I have lost 2 customers because of WFP.
Started upstairs with a trolley, now that they are all happy with WFP I have a van and do the whole house.,
When I moved over I informed everyone with a letter and promised to return to re-do any windows that dried poorly. No-one has ever called me back. New jobs are told the same and if they look a bit unsure I always give a knock a couple of days after doing the job to ask if they are happy.
I LOVE WFP!!!
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how daft are some people? - wants to save water!! Its a joke, over 70% of earth is covered in the stuff!!
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wfp is a joke, any tom dick or harry can brush a window with a water stick brush so i aint suprised that you've been sacked
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wfp is a joke, any tom dick or harry can brush a window with a water stick brush so i aint suprised that you've been sacked
And Billy Goat Gruff went trip trap trip trap over the bridge. :)
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You'll have to excuse me for the next question as i'm an Aussie .... but could someone please enlighten me on how these 'WFP converts' clean the insides?
According to Colin-Glenn he's ditched the Trad, gone the WFP and can do a whole house!
That's amazing, if someone could please send me a pic of someone using WFP inside i'd be very happy indeed, because this, i just have to see....
Here in Oz everyone expects the insides done as well, 'why get a dog and bark yourself' is the way Aussies look at it.
Besides, every house has got flyscreens, so even you did have a WFP you'd still be getting the ladder off the truck to get the flyscreens off.
I can see the benefits of WFP on Industrial Parks and difficult access stuff, but on houses?
Plus some of you boys have spent thousands on fitting out your trucks are doing 3 quid jobs?
i would'nt get out of my van for 3 quid.....
And just a final note, according to JM123 you use salt water to clean windows? Right?
No wonder you WFP are losing jobs....
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You'll have to excuse me for the next question as i'm an Aussie .... but could someone please enlighten me on how these 'WFP converts' clean the insides?
According to Colin-Glenn he's ditched the Trad, gone the WFP and can do a whole house!
That's amazing, if someone could please send me a pic of someone using WFP inside i'd be very happy indeed, because this, i just have to see....
Here in Oz everyone expects the insides done as well, 'why get a dog and bark yourself' is the way Aussies look at it.
Besides, every house has got flyscreens, so even you did have a WFP you'd still be getting the ladder off the truck to get the flyscreens off.
I can see the benefits of WFP on Industrial Parks and difficult access stuff, but on houses?
Plus some of you boys have spent thousands on fitting out your trucks are doing 3 quid jobs?
i would'nt get out of my van for 3 quid.....
And just a final note, according to JM123 you use salt water to clean windows? Right?
No wonder you WFP are losing jobs....
I think you misunderstood. WFP is not for insides although a company has just developed one that they say can do it (it dries as it cleans).
We don't have fly screens here.
Could you link to the post where JM123 says he uses salt water please? I think you may have misread something.
Some people may use WFP for £3 jobs but that's probably where they have a lot of work close together. Personally, the smallest job where I use WFP is £7.50 and that is next door to a larger house so only one set up.
Bear in mind that many have invested in WFP to go for larger jobs but there is a transitional period before they can afford to pass on the smaller jobs. Not much point letting smaller jobs go if there is no larger job with which to fill the gap is there?
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how daft are some people? - wants to save water!! Its a joke, over 70% of earth is covered in the stuff!!
Here's ya link.Now what i have i misread? Or do you have a desalination plant in those trucks as well?....
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i started with wfp 5 years ago lost 30% of my customers in first 3 months but i just would not quit it was a wonder i didn't have a coronary over the next 2 years getting my business off hte ground but you know what i now work 1 day a week if i really want too employ 2 men and have loads of time for my family and hobbies.
ignore all the negative people they will always be self employed not business people use the wfp to your advantage and just regard the public who let you down as part of the rocky road to building a real business. i well remember one who decided to not have me because of wfp she phoned me up the other week was begging me to come and give her a quote too busy love i said and referred her to a local up the ladder guy. wfp is here to stay the public will learn eventually.
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wfp is a joke, any tom dick or harry can brush a window with a water stick brush so i aint suprised that you've been sacked
As usual there is always someone who thinks WFP is a piece of cake, to a degree it is, but those who start have no end of frustration trying to get it right, just like with doing trad (and lets face, thats easy too) it still takes time to become any good at it.
Of course there are downsides, it's easier to screw it up, some windows you will never get right, the equipment is more complex (you don't think so? take a look at the Ionics gear!! :o)
Running costs are higher, and many lower their prices because they are quicker, and then end out earning less in the long run than they would if they'd stayed trad!
And of course many customers hate change, and when you first start it can take a couple of cleans before you get it done to a decent standard.
Some customers want it spot on straight away, they'll see some streaks and spots and sack you without giving you the chance to get it right....
But big deal, if you are a bit on the cack handed side it may take you a little longer than some to get your work up to an acceptable standard, but your losses will only really be in the first month or so, and you'll pick up far more than you lose anyway.
Ian
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Of course there are downsides, it's easier to screw it up, some windows you will never get right, the equipment is more complex (you don't think so? take a look at the Ionics gear!! :o)
Running costs are higher, and many lower their prices because they are quicker, and then end out earning less in the long run than they would if they'd stayed trad!
And of course many customers hate change, and when you first start it can take a couple of cleans before you get it done to a decent standard.
Some customers want it spot on straight away, they'll see some streaks and spots and sack you without giving you the chance to get it right....
Thanks for all that Ian.
After I've gone and got all the kit... :-\
;D
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You're lucky Rog!
At least you've got me & Tosh to call on if you have a problem!
You've got to re-think the way you do everything now, but once you are up and running and got through that transitional phase, you will be fine. ;)
Ian
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NickOZ you wrote....
You'll have to excuse me for the next question as i'm an Aussie .... but could someone please enlighten me on how these 'WFP converts' clean the insides?
According to Colin-Glenn he's ditched the Trad, gone the WFP and can do a whole house!
That's amazing, if someone could please send me a pic of someone using WFP inside i'd be very happy indeed, because this, i just have to see....
Nick here is the picture you wanted to see ;D ;D ;D http://www.baudoin.nl/content_nl/pag3_01.php
Cheers Dave ;)
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hi thanks for everyones import, didnt expect this many posts on my little thread. im glad im not the only one to lose work because of wfp. cheers ;D
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This time last year i lost the odd customer here & there. Now the work is flooding in because of how good Wfp is.
A few have asked me to start cleaning theirs again, revenge is sweet, no chance ;D. There is so much work out there if you want it. I laugh to myself when i see their windows compared to either side.
Macc
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wfp is a joke, any tom dick or harry can brush a window with a water stick brush so i aint suprised that you've been sacked
Wahay! Thank goodness for Markberesford. I thought that once Squeaky had come over to the dark side we'd have no more uninformed inexperienced opinion about wfp.
Thankfully (and not for the last time) I was wrong!
;D
Oh and if we're to have non-British Isles resident posters on the forum telling us what we should or shouldn't be doing NickOZ then give me Pat Purcell, PyloFm and (especially, yum yum ;D) Texas Girl anytime!
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Darkstar the customers you lost did not like the fact that water drips down the walls and it looks messy. I bet they were customers who where in when you cleaned them so they would have been nearly haveing a heart attack listening to the driping.
And the mess look at the BLOODY MESS on the floor Doris.
I had a customer come scurring to the door in her Dressing gown at 8.05am yesterday morning. STOP STOP I dont want my windows cleaning with all that water its ruining my paintwork.
I looked at her windows and said theirs nothing to ruin they should have been painted 5 years ago. I am more concerned if your paintwork is going to damage my brush.
She said, I have been trying to get a painter for 3 years, no one wants to paint them.
I am not suprised they are awkward and dangerous to do. But I am sorry I am not prepared to go up my ladder and risk life and limb anymore whan I have invested money in a safer alternative.I can take you off my list if you prefer but I now have a waiting list of potential new customers because I am struggling to cope with all the extra work. So if you want me to clean them in the future, I cannot tell you when I will be able to put you back on my books. What do you want me to do?
CLEAN THEM. She replied
I had another customer last week who got a new TRAD w/cleaner, because I was 4 weeks late with taking a long winter holiday. He thought I had retired. He was very apologetic, Then he confessed This new guy cannot get them any where near as clean as your machine gets them plus he left the frames all dirty, seeing as you have not retired can you clean them next month we will cancell the new guy.
You will find out in time that customers will love wfp more yhen trad cleaning and the odd ones who dont like the mess will just get a trad w/c. But its no loss. My own round as increased by 40% in 15 months of wfp. I have lost about 10 customers who did not like wfp.
be positive, Nel.
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when i changed over about 2/3 yrs ago i lost maybe 10% of customers .i simply replased them with better paid jobs .it was quite a worry at the time but as with most things i was worried about nothing .
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how daft are some people? - wants to save water!! Its a joke, over 70% of earth is covered in the stuff!!
Here's ya link.Now what i have i misread? Or do you have a desalination plant in those trucks as well?....
:) He only said what was on the Earthj. Didn't say he used it for cleaning windows. Mind you, if droughts are to become more frequent (I know you have a big problem in Oz), scaled down desalination units may be the way to go eventually.
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I can see the benefits of WFP on Industrial Parks and difficult access stuff, but on houses?
Plus some of you boys have spent thousands on fitting out your trucks are doing 3 quid jobs?
i would'nt get out of my van for 3 quid.....
I've got 6 £3 jobs side by side, they take me a total of 20 mins, including seting up, and are at the end of a street where I work all day. Nice little finisher.
Oh, I also monthly earn 50% more using WFP doing the same houses that I used to do on ladders. Some of my customers have noticed that the pole is quiker than the squeegee and said that they are impressed by my profesionalism.
As to salt water, I don't know about that, it gives me dermatitis. :P
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how daft are some people? - wants to save water!! Its a joke, over 70% of earth is covered in the stuff!!
Here's ya link.Now what i have i misread? Or do you have a desalination plant in those trucks as well?....
:) He only said what was on the Earthj. Didn't say he used it for cleaning windows.
So what was he talking about then? In a discussion about WFP and Window Cleaning, you're now saying he was'nt actually talking about window cleaning.
The point was raised about drought, he added the world was covered in 70% of water.Sea water. Therefore i can only assume you clean windows with sea water.
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wfp is a joke, any tom dick or harry can brush a window with a water stick brush so i aint suprised that you've been sacked
Wahay! Thank goodness for Markberesford. I thought that once Squeaky had come over to the dark side we'd have no more uninformed inexperienced opinion about wfp.
Thankfully (and not for the last time) I was wrong!
;D
Oh and if we're to have non-British Isles resident posters on the forum telling us what we should or shouldn't be doing NickOZ then give me Pat Purcell, PyloFm and (especially, yum yum ;D) Texas Girl anytime!
I'm British too mate, and a resident ;D
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well done all you wfp guys lets talk up wfp and remembe work on your business not in it.
and become a business man not self employed
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Good morning, I have nipped over from the cleaning side but had a question. Not so much on the subject of this posting but to do with wfp and traditional. I work on a lot of listed buildings where there are lots of nooks and crannies and more importantly in some cases where the glass has started to go back to its liquid form it has dripped to the point of there being no glass at the top of the pane. Accordingly these properties are cleaned with trad methods as wfp in some cases are not allowed to be used. My question is how does the wfp system work and not get water everywhere and how does it out clean more of a hands on if that makes sense? Again bear in mind I have no idea about either, apart from what I pressume which is dangerous of course. I ask because a property I work on pay the window cleaners £38,000 a year to maintain all the "glass". They, the cleaners are retiring and the client is now having to look elsewhere. The present cleaning is done by trad methods as for reasons mentioned above. Also a great deal of the windows are leaded and bowing to blazes. The gentleman cleaning now has stated that wfp can not be used. Just wanted to know a) if that is correct and if so does it mean that there will always be both used in the cleaning of glass business. A wfp man has looked at the job to quote and has said to my client that wfp would be better to use. As both are saying their way is better I just wondered on the thoughts of all you learned people in here. I dont give a monkeys which system is to be used but they have asked my opinion so wantd to know. I offered no opinion as it is not my field and accordingly didnt want to take on any responsability, again just wanted some feed back from your selves, best, Dave.
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If there is no glass on the top then wfp would make a mess inside. The water would just squirt straight in. It sounds as if some of your job could indeed be done wfp and parts trad with great care it, sounds like an old building and I would guess very thin glass.
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in some cases where the glass has started to go back to its liquid form it has dripped to the point of there being no glass at the top of the pane.
As you point out later in your post this is leadwork - the glass isn't regressing, the lead framing is needing serviced to stop it leaking, or replaced.
If the frames are leaking, they can't be wind-tight either. Their heating bills must be something else! I'd mention to your potential client that for windows which do the job properly, wfp is the way to go - much faster and an outstanding result vs traditional.
Anyone retiring isn't going to drop the equivalent of a £760 per week job - they'd sell it on. Find out the real story. I'm assuming that this is a large country mansion/palace? He'd be better having someone full-time doing windows - the money he would eventually save would be enough to have his windows repaired and then he'd have lower fuel bills too.
That'll be a Fiver, thanks!
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how daft are some people? - wants to save water!! Its a joke, over 70% of earth is covered in the stuff!!
Here's ya link.Now what i have i misread? Or do you have a desalination plant in those trucks as well?....
:) He only said what was on the Earthj. Didn't say he used it for cleaning windows.
So what was he talking about then? In a discussion about WFP and Window Cleaning, you're now saying he was'nt actually talking about window cleaning.
The point was raised about drought, he added the world was covered in 70% of water.Sea water. Therefore i can only assume you clean windows with sea water.
Well just read what he said. No need to put your own personal interpretation on it.
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WavieDavie, the glass is regressing but there is also a lot of repair work needed too. So my earlier comments are as they said. There is both leaded and "normal" glass within the building. But thankyou for the comments.
Mike, exceptionally thin glass.
As to the retirement. Due to disclosures this type of job can not be sold on, if that makes sense. I have clients too that stipulate if I was ever to sell my business that they did not go with the sale. So I understand that side of what is going on.
The gentleman retireing has been maintaining the property for I think he said 15 years, on his own and has enjoyed it from start to finish he says. So although not too much monies for doing it it has served him very well.
The idea I think is a bit like the painting of the Golden Gate Bridge. Once you finish you just start again.
Anyway, again thanks for the comment and I gather then that both systems could be used with caution of course to where one or the other couldnt be used.
And that the wfp and the trad just voiced an opinion against the other.
Best and thanks again, Dave.
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Perhaps a mixture of platforms/ladders and wfp all used intelligently is the way to go....
Oh, and NickOZ your profile says your location is Sydney Australia so you may be British (I don't care if you're Martian! ;D) but you're not working in the current British marketplace as a resident here and so may not be best qualified to comment on wfp use.
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with the leaded work, If the glass isn't too bad, and particularly if the insides are also done, then any trickles and runs of water would be picked up when the insides were done.
With some of the extremely lightweight brushes and poles that are now on the market, even fragile glass can be cleaned with WFP, the bristles are soft and very litle pressure is applied.
I wouild say it is a case of mix and match, much as Malc has said.
Unfortunately, you won't know for sure which will be best until both methods are experimented with.
Ian
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THIS MAY SOUND ODD BUT I CLEAN A FEW HOUSES WFP 1st FLOOR & TRAD ON THE GROUND FLOOR & THEY ARE MORE THAN HAPPY. IT WILL JUST TAKE TIME FOR PEOPLE TO GET USED TO THE IDEA THAT US YOUNGER CLEANERS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN WON'T RISK WORKING OFF LADDERS & NOT SEEING OUR KIDS AGAIN FOR £6.00.
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I sold some work onto another window cleaner last year wfp, hes absolutely crap-cowboy! >:( Some of the cuatomers have askes me to go back to them but when i sell work i guarentee i wont go back on it
I feel that i have let the customer down therefore i started passing them on to another window cleaner that does a good job, mind i am a hard act to follow ;)
Brett
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I clean a listed building that has very thin old original glass that is a minimum of 150 years old. I use a gardiners supalight pole and brush head and cold water (not warm or hot like I normally use) just to be on the safe side and just go slowly and very carefully and have been safe so far with regards the glass. No breakages yet! Amazingly not one pane of glass leaks on the sash wooden window frames.
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BRETT NAME AND SHAME ME .WAS IT ME YOUR ON ABOUT AGAIN IF SO I THINK U ORT TO DO THE PREVIOUS MENTIONED,AS ON HERE U SLAG PEOPLE OFF TO MAKE URSELF LOOK GOOD,AND AS IVE NOT HAD A COMPLAINT SINCE A YEAR LAST NOV I TAKE ITS NOT ME THIS TIME. ;D BUT SOME ONE ELSE.
GAZA
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Last summer, we had a busy period in new-build cleaning on a large development.
They wanted the windows (front elevation only) cleaned on 15 empty houses, every 2 weeks.
By 'front elevation' we mean sills, downpipes, doorframes and metering boxes etc.
We did it ouselves for a while, then we subcontracted the work to a WC.
Average 6 windows per house and front door. We paid him £30 per house (we were getting £40 from the contractor)
Everything was fine at first. Then he went WFP. The complaints came in thick and fast from the site agents and the sales people. Streaks, smears etc.
We asked him to go back to traditional and he refused - so we sacked him!
We understand that he had invested a lot of money in his WFP, but to simply refuse to go back to traditional and lose £450 for 2 - 3 hours work, is beyond me!
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wow!! Hadn't looked at this post in ages!! ok NickOZ - what I was saying is that the earth has an abundance of water, over 70% of the earth is covered by hundreds feet of it! I wasn't saying sea water could be used for wfp, you could pass it through a high pressure membrane to make it suitable but it wouldn't be as easy as using tap water. Secondly the water companies lose millions of litres of freshwater per day due to their incompetence, greed and poor management so no, britain doesn't have a water problem and what happens the water we don't use?? It evaporates from the reservoirs and lakes - all part of the cycle.
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BRETT NAME AND SHAME ME .WAS IT ME YOUR ON ABOUT AGAIN IF SO I THINK U ORT TO DO THE PREVIOUS MENTIONED,AS ON HERE U SLAG PEOPLE OFF TO MAKE URSELF LOOK GOOD,AND AS IVE NOT HAD A COMPLAINT SINCE A YEAR LAST NOV I TAKE ITS NOT ME THIS TIME. ;D BUT SOME ONE ELSE.
GAZA
;)
I think ive got a paranoid old man stalking me ;D ;D ;D
mind you i like the idea of name and shame window cleaners, especially those who claim to have done it for 4 yrs but have only been legal for a year. :-X Good thinking Gaza, i dont need cowboys to make me look good ive got 16yrs expierence if i didnt think you were capable i wouldnt have kept on passing work on to you my old chum! We must catch up for a pint sometime, you can give me some advice on a van mount for hopefully when i get a bigger van
regards
Brett :-*
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legal for a year that why Ive three tax returns stamped by the tax office ,with 6 kids YOU ARE ENTITLED TO FAMILY WORKING TAX AS WELL U KNOW. UR SLAGGING ME OFF AGAIN AND IM GETTING A BIT FEDUP WITH YOUR CONSISTANT SLY DIGS .OLD
MAN i MIGHT BE OLDER THAN YOU BUT STILL WORK AS HARD AS U AND AS FIT.
16 YRS IS NOTHING WHEN YOUVE BEEN TRAD FOR 15 OFF THEM. WHO SHOWED YOU A FULL VAN MOUNT WFP SET UP AND HOW TO USE IT ? ME :-X OR DONT U WANT
ANYONE TO KNOW THAT.
HOWS UR DRUG SMOKING DOLE SIGNING COUSIN IS HE STILL WORKING FOR U ?
GO FOR A DRINK NO THANKS RATHER DRINK WITH THE KRAY TWINS AT LEAST U EXPECT TO GET STABED IN THE BACK
GAZA
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Hi Gaza
i think you are building your blood pressure up again old boy! As i said earlier, paraniod :P
If you read back to my original post on this thread i sold work to a window cleaner last year did not mention your name in fact it was'nt even you i was refering to so calm down. I have asked you before if you got anything to say please say it to my face and not make a big scene like a child, as you know i have passed work on to you these past few months i have no grevience with you. I even offered you a lift to the show a small argument sometimes can get out of hand if you let it, 16yrs may be nothing but you know my reputation and my work and i am proud of it and yes you did show me your van mount and i was very greatful.
Any complaints i have had about you or regarding your tax returns etc are irrelevant to this forum that is your business private and confidential
If there is something bothering you please feel free to talk to me about it or i will come and see you tomorrow to get it sorted out mate
My drug smoking dole signing cousin known as "broken flask" as you named him has been gone a year this month good ridence, no i dont admit hes related to me :-[ but he was a good window cleaner just everything else about him was crap. Hes now working off a rickety old ladder unsafe with worn feet round where he lives at 4 pound per house ::)
The Kray twins are now both dead i think they used to drink in the boat and horses ;D
regards
Brett
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Just to update, it has been sorted out now so thanks for the replies, on here and by e-mail. Someone took it on who does both trad and wfp which I kind of guessed would happen. He sold his services for 1000 a week to do what the other cleaner was doing and both the client and he is happy. Thanks again, best, Dave.