Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: davep on March 10, 2007, 04:36:45 pm
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I know its a bit like 'how long is a piece of string' but. . .
How long on average does it take you guys to do say a through lounge, stairs with landing or a bedroom for example?
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Davep
is it empty, and to what spec will you want it? do you know what method you want?
anyway my answer is as long as it takes. i know that sound bad but its true.
if you are looking at your hourly rate, then you need to keep records on times and then you will get an average which you can then work out a sq ft price and know what you are getting per hour.
respect
Ian Harper
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Ta Mr H,
Bit of a general question i know! Guessing odd bits of furniture to move, HWE.. I am aiming at £35 per hr but am wondering if its correct or not (another 'how long is a piece of string statement!) i have worked out my times prior to the job quite well up until now. Usually 2-3 hrs.
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I would suggest your pricing is spot on at around £70 - £75, aiming at realistic pricing and not excluding yourself, from 80% of the market, this should keep you busy, provided, of course, you do a good job.
This is realism and if you market at that level, you will still get the odd, big job, or jobs with a higher ticket. There are various reasons why this will happen.
rob
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If you are based near me I think around £450 is a good price.
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£450 for what Max?
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Depends but as general rule a lot longer if I use my porty, then am sure someone with a LM system will beat my TM.
Len
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2man team 80mins ( vac, pre-spray, scrub, extract)
cost; £150
charge £70-75 and yes you'll be busy...busy earning crap money.
Mike
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I'm just starting out , i am a one man band with low overheads so i think my price is ok, although i will increase my prices in a while..
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I'd go for £160 ish and allow 2 hours, cleaned and turbo dried ready to walk on.
Shaun
PS extra with protector
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So is that for a through lounge, stairs with landing and a bedroom ? I think i didn't ask the question correctly. .
These rooms wher meant as a generalisation, not that i would do all that in 2 hrs for £35 per hr..
Sometimes i confuse myself :-\ I would price those at approx £120..
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Thru and hsl based on approx 40 m2
Shaun
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£150 around 1 1/2 to 2 hours
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£120 1 to 1,1/2 hours
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If that's the case, gentlemen, there must be some pretty wealthy carpet cleaners around, as £150per job and these are small jobs, after all and if you put in 6 - 7 hours per day / 5 days per week, that,s the staggering sum of £2250 per week ........................ now, this is a pretty average job we're discussing here, so if we add in a bigger job, or two, maybe double the one quoted and chuck in a couple of suites, some protector, we are going to end up with something in the region of £3000 for a weeks work.................Really?
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Carpetguy
Halve that and your nearer the mark ;)
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Speak for yourself, I'm in it to make my wife rich ;D
Shaun
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You keep on doing that Shaun cos im in it just to keep your wife happy ;D
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Well, I really know that Paul.............but new people, or people trying their best to make a go of things, are going to be pretty hacked off, wondering what they're doing wrong, or taking a gamble and doubling the prices, that give them a level of income they are happy with, only to find themselves having to revert to previous, or similar prices....................but how many regular clients have they lost.
NB.............this is not knocking the few high earners out there, but please don't give the impression that everyone can earn these figures and don't mock others, who are happy to work for around £700 - £ 800 a week..............that is a decent income and double the national average.
A lot more than many, many professionals earn !!!!!!!!!!!!
Pro rata, I was earning more than any of you 20 years ago, but there was a fair bit of luck and being in the right place, at the right time, involved and it was in the cleaning industry.
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Well, I really know that Paul............
NB.............this is not knocking the few high earners out there, but please don't give the impression that everyone can earn these figures and don't mock others, who are happy to work for around £700 - £ 800 a week..............that is a decent income and double the national average.
If you know then why ask?
And who is mocking ?
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By my price list it would be €190,.. approx £125 sterling, and I'd be upset if I was there much more than 3 hours, working on my own.
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Paul you make my wife laugh, you've either showed her your willy or she can't understand what you are saying.
Carpet Guy if you are grossing £700-800 a week what about your overheads, leaflets or telephone bill, van, petrol? then there's accountants bill, taxman, breakage!! what about holidays or illness?
£700-800 a week when you properly add up those will give you a real figure of a national average wage (£447 a week for a semi skilled manual worker)
If I was earning the same as that I wouldn't be self employed I'd let someone else have the risk of paying me when I'm ill, I could go home at 5pm and think about anything I wanted to instead of walking around my home eating peanuts and annoying the Missus asking her stuid questions about carpet cleaning marketing. OH and the free pension !!
Easy life is employment, I think I should be paid extra to take on the risk of no frills self emplyment and I also need the extra to save for a rainy day just incase things go POP.
Shaun
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Couldnt have put it better myself, how i would love to go home at night at 5pm and be finished for the day.
Instead of having sleepless nights thinking about leaflets or raising prices, if we are gonna lead such sad lives we deserve to be well paid for it ;D
I think you should earn the best part of a £1000 a week after you have paid everything, not that i am but thats what i would like
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::) ::) ::)
some people need to think before they start putting figures down, just because some one earns earn £80 an hour does not mean they earn £80x 7-8hrs.
if it was so, yes they'd earn a fantastic income, I actually 'work' on average 5ish hours a day
I spend £200 a week on advertising plus £100 on the van lease, £50 on diesel, ..etc..etc
so why would I be happy earning £600-£800.
Mike
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And that job would take just under 2 hours
and would cost £150+
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Where's Mosschops he's a greedy little so en so, come on put your 2 peneth in now you've insulted me!
Shaun
PS Your Missus says when I make love to her she floats 6 inches above the bed but when you do she hits the roof when you wipe your tiddly bit on the curtains :o
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Mike is just winding you up Shaun,I know for a fact he makes at least £200 a week.
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Paul i like your new site really is customer friendly.
Shaun
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too much talk about earnings, we all earn different amounts and quite honestly i think it's becoming too common for people to come into this industry and expect to earn fabulous money straight away even though they might be relativley clueless, too many of you tell newbies just to up their prices all the time, surely there is a learning curve, the more experience you gain, the more loyal customers you get and then you can up your price when you are sure and confident that you are doing a good job, i think that just to ask 'what would you charge' shows inexperience.
colin
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cbt- rubbish
If you only get a few calls a week how can you make it pay at £40 a job? if you can get a higher amount say £100 and you get 5 jobs a week then at least you can make money from day 1.
2ndly when you start to grow and up your prices because of your experience and costs going up how do you get your customers to pay for the big price rise without losing them after all it is the customers that make our businesses.
My recommendation to anyone starting is price as high as you dare, as you learn your trade also learn the art of selling, go out and visit the customer to quote, keep it high to allow for slack months - it is YOU that has to pay the bills not anyone else and if you come across price resistance you can always drop your price for that customer if you want to or walk away it's your choice but have you ever dropped an already low price? it hurts!
Shaun
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Think i opened a can of wormys here.. only wanted to know if my cleaning time v hourly rate where reasonable!
Heres another.. How many jobs do you tend to do on an average day? (if there is one)
Also are you porty or tm, 1 man team etc...
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ok shaun, buy a new car, have a problem with it and have the garage tell you that the new apprentice who has been on the job 1 week is going to have a go at it without any supervision or help, i'd like to hear you say that would be ok. we always tell customers how expensive their carpets are to replace, how can we justify top prices until we have learnt to do a professional job?
colin
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Our job isn't rocket science, I could take a car to bits but I havn't got a clue on how to put it back together again, carpet cleaners have and still do go on NCCA courses and go out and clean carpets from day 1 so it's not like for like what you are saying.
Shaun
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I have to agree with Shaun. Well not have too but as is most often he is right in what he is saying. From day one I charged high with the theory of if it was too high I could come down. It just doesnt work the other way around. I can drop my prices from a pound to 75p thus reducing my price by 25%...... but I couldnt start at 75p and then go to a pound as, well you know why. I understand high pricing isnt for everyone but low pricing shouldnt be for anyone. As has been said, why would you do a job for 40 quid when you can do pretty much the same job for maybe 75 or in most cases 100. If you get a lot of work at 40 then you will be busy doing 40 pound jobs. The same goes for getting the job at 100 and then being busy doing 100 pound jobs. Hardly any difference in the work but the 100 man is earning or at least turning over 150% more than the 40 man. I know which one I would rather be. Best, Dave. As to the car and the mechanic. You as a customer are paying the garage the same amount of monies for the rookie as you would for the more experienced mechanic...........
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When I first started I thought probably the same as everyone else that I made profit from 1 job well actually you don't start making a profit or wage until Tuesday or even Wednesday.
This is how most small and young businesses fail, if you are working for someone at say £10 an hour and then come into cc and charge £20 an hour you may think that you have doubled your money when actually you have halved what you were originally on.
Shaun
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i am still a new 2 cc.although i have been doing it for a couple of years now....
when i started i was cheaper because that gave me the chance to get practical experience.....i sacrificed earning so i could practice!!!
i would agree with shaun.....it isnt rocket science spray chems.....extract!!! hey presto clean carpet!!
imo the more exp. you have the more you can charge....
exp. gives more than just the confidence to hike up the prices, but you gradually learn the" gift of the gab"
i started with ....oh well nevermind ;)
now i have a ninja...............
my prices are still quite reasonable............but with experience you can spot a "earner" a mile away.....
i think if you are smart, polite, friendly and punctual....that also goes a long way
answering the original question......i would think bout 2/3 hrs....@£120
i can afford to charge slightly less others because i dont have any overheads!!
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When you get involved in hourly rates, or earnings in general, it always amuses me, how one persons reality, is anothers dream, or fiction.
At the moment, I am slowly backing out of c/c and have not advertised for about three years, nonetheless, I have just had my busiest January / February, ever.
I run a small Susuki van with a Berlingo available as back up ( never been needed ). Previous van was a little Diahatsu and before that a small Honda.
These small vans are clearly not suitable for t/m's, but I've never found the need for one, but can carry a second person.............Ninja, with 100 ft of hoses, wand and a couple of upholstery tools.
17 " Rotary
Puzzi plus hose and tools
Selection of chemicals, brushes, sponges, towels.
Turbo drier
Steamer with vacuum
Hunter vac
Yard brush
The cost of this vehicle ( new ) was £5400...............about £180 for tax............£300 for isurance..........returns about 55 miles to the gallon............servicing costs are extremely low.
Phone costs, are the cost of diverts to my mobile, from our domestic line, plus around £12 per month for 0800
over the past 2 - 3 years I have halved my workload, only doing a couple of jobs daily, rather than the 5 - 7 per day, when advertising.
This only takes up about 3 - 4 hours daily and leaves the afternoons for other business activities.
So, the £700 - £800 IMO represents a reasonable return, for the time and effort and is about 3 times the charges of 7-8 years ago.
No big van..........no big machine ...........no big advertising bill..........no unnecessary office expenses.
Incidentally, for the past 5 years, or more, Chem dry operators have been changing to these small vans, so they cope adequately for whatever they carry around.
I'm not criticising any individual, or system,or business sense, just suggesting that, what's perceived as reality and absolutely necessary, to one person is'nt necessarily correct, or even best practice.
Best practice, in business....................is bottom line.
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Carpet Guy we were under the impression that this was your only income business all of this thread is constant with a full time cc and that is what the figures are based on, you are running 2 or more businesses so the equasion for you will be different.
Shaun
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Carpetguy, good post with good reply.
This has been a good and interesting post for all,but mainly new cleaners in the industry.
There is no right way or wrong way,no best van or worst van, no best system/machine or worst system/machine.
You aim your business down the road you can afford with the experience you have.From that you build it up.Some people are very lucky and get work quickly and big contracts, others arnt so lucky and have to work harder.
The best thing the new carpet cleaners have over the last 2 years is this forum and others like it as in no time in the past has there been so much free info from experienced cleaners availible.
My advice to any body new is.
Go and get trainned and certified in as many disciplines as you can afford.
Get an experinced c/c to take you under his wing for a year.
Read , read and read more on all the back posts on the forum regarding marketing,pricing and presentation.
Then put it into practise and change it as you need to as your business developes.
Normally you will have 2 hard years and in those 2 years invest as much as you can back into your equipment/marketing.
In year 3 things will start to take off and you will start to earn decent money. ;)
UNLESS YOU ARE VERY LUCKY OR HAVE GOOD BACKING YOU WILL NOT DO IT STRAIGHT AWAY.
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shaun, i know there are plenty or courses out there for people to take but how many people new to the industry actually take courses? do you consider yourself a professional or do you tell people that you are self taught cowboy? i read post after post from people who stand on their soapbox and tell me how to clean a carpet and then we find out a few months later that they are giving up their other job to go full time carpet cleaning!!!! with people like you giving advice no wonder that carpet cleaners have a bad name with the average joe public, charge as much as you can for as little work as you can do.
colin
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with people like you giving advice no wonder that carpet cleaners have a bad name with the average joe public, charge as much as you can for as little work as you can do.
Tell me what you mean? I've been full time carpet and upholstery cleaning since 1988.
Compared to some carpet cleaners I charge too low ie Dave Liohona or CDry or Andrew Walker etc
Say what you want but please back it up.
Shaun
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Chris
How long did you spend with me " gift of the gab" I prefer smooth talker! ;D What was the question! How long to do a job? Next time I will take my time and earn less. :'(
Shaun
Giddy up ;D ;D
Len
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regarding the impression we are giving new starts, with this in mind i should quilify my post- my times are TM
I agree with Paul Moss, you should expect to earn nowt the first couple of years.. even then when you do start earning that will need to be ploughed back for another year or two.
in fact! starting up now would be EXTREMLY difficult as the number of c/cers has been growing esp in the last 10 years, and is now full with a argueably smaller (due to hard floors) market to service.
all in all a very competitive market.
sorry if it sounds negitive, lol ;D
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i don't care if you have been carpet cleaning since 1888, what makes you think that makes you an expert? i know idiots who have been in the trade for years and i know really clever guys who have been in the business for a couple of years, trade and price on your knowledge, don't think that just because you can afford to run a truck-mount that makes you the best cleaner around, that is arrogant and stupid.
colin
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Colin
While I see where your coming from and to a fair extent agree with you sentiments, but Shaun is quoting a standard business sentiment, which is often suggested at " business schools "or seminars.
However
If you're in a competetive environment, or, like Shaun, you've invested a lot in equipment, and training, you would clearly be justified, in charging more than " the cheap guy " who advertises in your local paper.
I personally, would never contemplate charging some of the prices, I've seen quoted, but I have never been in the position, where I felt the need to charge high prices, as I've never had huge overheads to cover.
This has nothing to do with worth......................my worth, as someone who relieves pain and restores spinal flexibility, is an awful lot higher than my worth, as a carpet cleaner.
Why ?
Very few people can do what I can, in pelvic / spinal alignment, but almost anyone can clean carpets, so I have an exclusivety which anables me, with justification, to charge a much higher hourly rate when fixing bodies, as opposed to cleaning carpets
If you can justify high pricing fine, but the only way you can justify high pricing, is exceptional results, that stand out from the others.................How to show that..............That's up to your marketing
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I've never been so arrogant to say that if I run a TM that I am the best cleaner ever, but an investment of a TM means that you can operate at high work levels ie more jobs because it's quicker but you have to charge more to keep it on the road.
Don't you have a TM? you know how much it costs to run and buy and keep running your prices will reflect this as apposed to the half price sleaners who may have a puzzi or the likes.
Shaun
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Colin I hear some of what you are saying and healthy debate is good,thats what the forum is for.
I dont know why your are attacking Shaun as I have read back through the thread and cant see where he has upset you so much.
We all are entitled to our opionions and we dont have to agree with others, but some of your comments are getting a little close to the knuckle.
I personally know Shaun and he is a very good and experinced c/c with a decent set up.
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Problem with this kind of " discussion" is we get a little carried away, sometimes and we don't really have a clue about the real person behind the post.
I have also met Shaun and he's a pro', but we won't necessarily agree, in fact we rarely do, but I respect his striving for contineuous improvement.
rob
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just to pick up on one thing carpetguy said, and is often repeated by people who charge lower prices;
I don't have to charge high prices because I have low overheads
what a load of nonsense :D its not about covering overheads its about making money, people talk like overheads are a bad thing.
I'll tell you what, stay in the house and spend nothing, then your overhead will be nil but so will be your earning.
Mike
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I think Colin got the mumps on with me when I wrote
cbt- rubbish
If you only get a few calls a week how can you make it pay at £40 a job? if you can get a higher amount say £100 and you get 5 jobs a week then at least you can make money from day 1.
for that Colin I appologise irrelivant of where the arguement goes
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This is how most small and young businesses fail, if you are working for someone at say £10 an hour and then come into cc and charge £20 an hour you may think that you have doubled your money when actually you have halved what you were originally on.
Shaun
how can anyones overheads be running at £15 an hour when starting out...??
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Steve
You still going into c/c
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i generally charge what i think i can get away with.......then throw in a 10% discount .......feel good factor for them.......they are happy...so am i
i aim for £40/50 ph............
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Mike, nice comment and I would agree. Of course you have to be aware of your overheads but to charge low if you dont have any is just bad business, period. I am not saying it doesnt work but in the same words, what a load of nonsense. Apart from day to day running costs I have no overheads whatsoever. Do I charge low because of? Absolutely not. I charge what I do for my own reasons. One being purely and simply to be more than Mr Walker. (yes he knows) Best, Dave.
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shaun, i didn't get the 'mumps' with you over that comment, i just find it offensive when people think that just because they have a truck-mount they think they are somehow better than everyone else, i have a truck-mount, a boxer 427, and i have friends who have 'puzzis' and often the only difference is the time taken to do the job, i woud'nt do this for a living if i had to use a portable but i wouldn't be so arrogant as to think that i am somehow 'better' than a portable guy, i think they really earn their money, the only proviso i would put is that EVERYONE should learn to clean carpets before they think of charging 'top dollar' for their work, we need to think ourselves as professionals, not as 'cowboys', you cannot be really proficient from day one. how long did it take you to be comfortable with cleaning carpets? for at least a year i thought i was a complete t**t! i was always surprised when they actually paid me money!!!
colin
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Can't help wondering how you make any money Mike, according to your advert' almost everything appears to be FREE
colin
now that's a good post
rob
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I keep looking through my posts and I can't see where I have put anything about a TM cleaning better than a porti or trying to take customers for a ride, as for training that comes 2 fold, 1 is to do the job properly and professionally and the other is to be trained on how to get the correct prices.
Shaun
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why care about what other people charge, i charge as much as i think i can get out the custy
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Paul Moss,
yes...just finalising what set up to get...selling off some of my stuff to raise some funds etc etc.
If overheads are £15 a hour...£105 per 7 hour day!!! £525 a week (5 days)...surely not... :o :o
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Last time i worked mine out they were around £600 a week
Some peoples will be £100 some a grand
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Steve
You really have to analyse what's being said here and consider what you expect / plan to do in your first year.
A fair number of people are spending, or appear to be spending huge sums on marketing, purchase of equipment, etc.
Before you spend money " unwisely " you have to consider what you will have to spend in order to generate income...............this is where we all have our favourite methods of marketing, but, if you consider the basics..........
You want to get people to purchase your services ! Why should they use you, rather than another ?
If your budget is £50k, you can become a franchisee and let someone else do your initial marketing, on the other hand, if your budget is limited, you can buy a secondhand machine and find out, whether or not you are suitable for this life. ( not everyone is )
It's fairly common, for people to purchase a machine and start part time while still in full time employment. Some would say this shows a lack of confidence or commitment, others would say it shows good common sense.
As with most things, there's no guarantee you will be successfull, as it depends on you and unfortunately, you could be a crap cleaner, with a bad attitude, giving poor value for money and still be very successful in this business.
The time taken to do a particular job will vary, from person to person...............some will thoroughly vacuum the area then prespray, rinse and protect, might even add a turbo drier to speed op drying times. As this will be time consuming it would have to be charged at a higher rate than, another, who would simply set up his machine and clean with chemical in the tank, accepting the result as their standard and charging anything, from, the minimum wage rate, to what others appears to be absolute rip off prices..........
Whatever route you follow, I wish you good luck and follow your instincts, but avoid unnecessary expense, especially at the start up.
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some sensible advice :D :D