Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: [GQC] Tim on March 05, 2007, 07:46:11 pm
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I'm planning for a wfp setup in 2007, but really would like to figure everything out before I start buying things. I can't really seem to find the info I need.
How can I safely fit a tank in a van?
I looked at Cleantech's website, and they offer a heavy duty fitting kit, but I have no idea how that works, or if I can install it myself.
http://www.cleantech.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_25&products_id=90
Can anyone tell me how to do this? Preferably with pictures? I guess it would need fixing through the actual chassis? In that case, I'd do best to let a pro do it? Where to find a garage who does that?
Questions questions. :)
Thanks for your time.
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No one? :)
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Can't see very clearly what you're link is, looks like the usual ratchet straps and a steel bar to secure things to the floor.
Ratchet straps are what road haulage carriers use to hold loads steady. Good option. You ned to get a decent garage to fit them for you, because fitting the steel bars to the floor pan is not good enough.
It will hold things steady as you drive, but not on impact. You really need to get the steel bars bolted to the chassis frame somehow, then the straps are securing your tank solidly.
Only problem is these plasic tanks full of 400 litres of water and more, will probably explode on hard head on impact, bursting half a ton of water coming at you at 100mph + !
But let's not think about that!
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http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=18652.0
You can install the stpas yourself have a look down this post for some pics
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Hi GQC
Those fixing kits are not that safe. The proper way to fit a tank is to use a system whereby the tank cannot use, most commonly a cage fitted through the van floor. Of course the cage needs to be designed for the job as do the plates/legs underneath.
We supply and fit a range of cages for tanks from 175ltr to 900ltr.
Email me j.mills175@btinternet.com for more info and pics
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Well done Easy, I knew there was something on here somewhere. If you decide to go for just straps I got mine from screwfix and my tank has not budged an inch they look like the straps from cleantech but no angle bits
www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=18170&ts=31559hough.
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The proper way to fit a tank is to use a system whereby the tank cannot use, most commonly a cage fitted through the van floor. Of course the cage needs to be designed for the job as do the plates/legs underneath.
No you dont need a cage i used to have a Tucker Pole 700ltr tank and it was fitted with 4 nuts and bolts and when i got hit head on at 70mph it never moved
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I've just purchased 4 x 5 Tonne 4m Straps for £38.22 inc carriage and VAT from
http://www.rhtltd.co.uk/index.php
Be careful most straps are less than 5 Tonnes!
Steve
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I got my straps from HMS Ilustrious, :-X used for holding harrier jump jets to the flight deck, and I hope my tank never takes off. ;D
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Where do you fix the straps to then? I have no clue about that. Could anyone enlighten me?
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Easyclean I think you'll find that your tucker tank is a structural design. Don't take this the wrong way but I know what I'm on about here more than most (I've 2 degrees in Engineering - Chemical and Mechatronic) Tucker tanks are a cage within themselves, the tank makes up the structural unit.
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I send you an email btw JM123
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I had to modify my last post - I can sound like a real numpty at times.
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IF YOU HAVE A Van it should have strap hooks fixed to the floor ,a bolt with an eyelet coming from it
gaza
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GQC e-mail sent back
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Can I give some of you guy's a little tip when fixing tanks to your floors??
Bolting direclty to the floor even with plates underneath is not 100% safe.
but the biggest tip I can give you is, even if you bolt it to the chassis, you should not just drill a hole and put a bolt through it, the chassis metal is to soft, the correct way to do it is to drill a hole bigger than the bolt you are useing, through the van floor top and through the top section of the chassis, but not through the bottom section, the hole in the bottom section should be the size of the bolt you are useing,you should then drop a steel tube that just fits your bolt, into the hole, this way when you tighten the bolts you wont crush your chassis and this also creates a stronger fixing.
The tube and the bolt holes should all be a reasonable fit and not a loose fit.
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jeff good point - you should never ever fix onto the floor,by that I mean the thin plate. You should always put it into a chassis leg (again this distributes load). Sometimes there is no choice but to do this but if you do make sure you use plates (plates should be no less than 6" x 6")
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jeff good point - you should never ever fix onto the floor,by that I mean the thin plate. You should always put it into a chassis leg (again this distributes load). Sometimes there is no choice but to do this but if you do make sure you use plates (plates should be no less than 6" x 6")
The only reason I could give this advice, I had to fit a tow bar to one of my cars and the instructions explained the danger of not fixing it correctly, a Tank carry's more weight than a caravan in an accident.
take care guy's and do it right, you may only have one chance.
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jeff good point - you should never ever fix onto the floor,by that I mean the thin plate. You should always put it into a chassis leg (again this distributes load). Sometimes there is no choice but to do this but if you do make sure you use plates (plates should be no less than 6" x 6")
On some vans the factory fitted anchorage points that some window cleaners use to tie their ratchet straps to are merely eyelet bolts secured through the thin base of the floorpan with very lttle plating actually underneath them. The best thing to do is look under your vehicle and check for yourselves. Caravan/Towing fitting centres are a good place to ask/ install your tank securely in your van for peace of mind if you are going down the DIY route.
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Are you guys saying that fixing the tank to the floor is not enough and that you have to use straps too ?
We had our LDV tank fitted by LDV and have just bought a new van which we are currently kitting out. Its booked in to have the tank fitted next week but again they dont intend using straps :P
Any advice welcome,
Sarah
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No Sarah, straps in themselves are inherently very strong (think of seatbelts) but its the anchorage points that people use. Eye bolts wouldn't stop a 100ltr tank never mind a 400/650/900/1000.
safety is the issue here - I've seen enough systems come from other system builders that are poorly fitted, or are just plainly a dangerous design. I'm talking about the big players in this business too.
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Thanks JM123
I think I will demand both fixing - for the sake of the extra few pounds it will give me that extra piece of mind.
Sarah
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Are you guys saying that fixing the tank to the floor is not enough and that you have to use straps too ?
We had our LDV tank fitted by LDV and have just bought a new van which we are currently kitting out. Its booked in to have the tank fitted next week but again they dont intend using straps :P
Any advice welcome,
Sarah
Sarah, you can cross strap your tank and it will be secure, providing the fixings below the floor are Adequate, have another read of mine and JM123 post, and don't do what EasyClean is warning us about, I to have seen fixings to these points, there really there to secure the cat basket too (something light). do it properly and stay safe. ;)
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Make sure you get it done properly! Watch these videos, they show the differnce between an Ionic system which is fitted safely (bolted to the chassis) and a "competitor's" system (not fitted safely). http://www.ionicsystems.com/english/html/safety.html
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I've got a layflat 650ltr tank strapped to the floor with angle iron to stop it sliding and plates under the floor where I can get them in-between chassis members etc. A total of eight bolts through the floor. I still don't feel safe even with a bulkhead too. I deliberately keep my speed to forty mph - fifty an absoulute max. The tank bulges considerably when full of water. Some of the setups seen on this site are unbelievably dangerous, some with the banding even strapped over the tank the wrong way round ie. across the vehicle only with nothing to stop it sliding through the band and into the cab! Having said all that have a look at how they secure gas cylinders (large ones) to a vehicle if you get the chance. Also how does a builder transport sand/cement/bricks/mixers etc ....... no straps nothing!
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Wow that video made me feel a bit ill. My 650 tank is bolted to the chassis, and it on the back of a double cab pick up, so it would have to break free from the chassis and go through the second row of seats in the cab before it hits us and I've not worried about keeping the speed down, just as long as I'm in the limit. However after seeing that video I might drive a bit slower. Definitely keep it safe, after all thats the whole idea of wfp.
Simon
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The second video looks as if the tank has not been strapped strapped at all.
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Its a shame they never used the same type of tank for both tests, I think the IBC tank would have continued to the front of the van and killed the driver at least.
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Sarah, you can cross strap your tank and it will be secure, providing the fixings below the floor are Adequate, have another read of mine and JM123 post, and don't do what EasyClean is warning us about, I to have seen fixings to these points, there really there to secure the cat basket too (something light). do it properly and stay safe. ;)
Jeff, you misread my post. What I said is that the anchorage points fitted in some vans which window cleaners going down the DIY route use to tie their tanks in by means of ratchet straps are merely bolted through the thin floor plating and are not adequate for securing a Waterfed Pole tank. I agree that they need to be plated underneath. I have a 650 litre tank in a complete frame bolted through the floor with plates underneath.
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Good info here, but I'm sure bolting the tank to the chassis it will then be classed as part of the van therefore upping insurance or at least you needing to tell them of the modifications.
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It's wise to let your insurance company know about your tank that's been fitted in your vehicle because some insurance companies class it as a modification to the vehicle. It alters the handling characteristics whilst driving (i.e. longer stopping distances, slower cornering, etc). If you don't declare it and you are involved in an accident your insurance company may use it against you!
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What I said is that the anchorage points fitted in some vans which window cleaners going down the DIY route use to tie their tanks in by means of ratchet straps are merely bolted through the thin floor plating and are not adequate for securing a Waterfed Pole tank.
I wonder where the van manufacturers stand on this.
They quote a max payload e.g. 800kg and describe stowage rings to "ensure your load is securely fixed". (Taken from a Renault brochure.)
What do other industries do? Would they go to the trouble of bolting the load to the chassis?
I'm sure there must be companies moving loads on a daily basis that weigh the same as our water tanks. We have the advantage in that our load is the same day in day out so we can take things further by bolting down. But it would appear from the manufacturer’s vehicle brochures that these vans are designed to carry these loads securely when the rings are used. ???
Steve
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With other trades (builders, removals, etc), their loads are tied down by means of ratchet straps to their van anchorage points and then their loads are secured because nothing can possibly move. Our WFP tanks are secured in our vehicles but the weight of our water (being a liquid and not a solid object) has the ability to violently move around suddenly in the event of an emergency brake which puts excessive strains on the WFP tank fixing points.
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Sarah, you can cross strap your tank and it will be secure, providing the fixings below the floor are Adequate, have another read of mine and JM123 post, and don't do what EasyClean is warning us about, I to have seen fixings to these points, there really there to secure the cat basket too (something light). do it properly and stay safe. ;)
Jeff, you misread my post. What I said is that the anchorage points fitted in some vans which window cleaners going down the DIY route use to tie their tanks in by means of ratchet straps are merely bolted through the thin floor plating and are not adequate for securing a Waterfed Pole tank. I agree that they need to be plated underneath. I have a 650 litre tank in a complete frame bolted through the floor with plates underneath.
Sorry I did misread it ::) I thought you was on about those silly little bars/hooks, that are some times fitted, for the cat basket/small loads, you know the type I mean?? sorry Dude ;D
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No worries Jeff!
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With other trades (builders, removals, etc), their loads are tied down by means of ratchet straps to their van anchorage points and then their loads are secured because nothing can possibly move. Our WFP tanks are secured in our vehicles but the weight of our water (being a liquid and not a solid object) has the ability to violently move around suddenly in the event of an emergency brake which puts excessive strains on the WFP tank fixing points.
Valid point!
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So where did you guys have your tank fitted, and how much would a rough estimate be? (on cost)
Where to go to get it properly fixed?
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The proper way to fit a tank is to use a system whereby the tank cannot use, most commonly a cage fitted through the van floor. Of course the cage needs to be designed for the job as do the plates/legs underneath.
No you dont need a cage i used to have a Tucker Pole 700ltr tank and it was fitted with 4 nuts and bolts and when i got hit head on at 70mph it never moved
70 mph head on? :o
Are you sure it was quite that fast? ;D
Very rare to get survivors from that sort of impact.
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70 mph head on?
Are you sure it was quite that fast?
Very rare to get survivors from that sort of impact
i sure am
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Well that's proved it.
That's how much damage you do at 30mph. ;D
70mph it would be absolutely destroyed.
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Can I give some of you guy's a little tip when fixing tanks to your floors??
Bolting direclty to the floor even with plates underneath is not 100% safe.
but the biggest tip I can give you is, even if you bolt it to the chassis, you should not just drill a hole and put a bolt through it, the chassis metal is to soft, the correct way to do it is to drill a hole bigger than the bolt you are useing, through the van floor top and through the top section of the chassis, but not through the bottom section, the hole in the bottom section should be the size of the bolt you are useing,you should then drop a steel tube that just fits your bolt, into the hole, this way when you tighten the bolts you wont crush your chassis and this also creates a stronger fixing.
The tube and the bolt holes should all be a reasonable fit and not a loose fit.
That is exactly how my steel welded frame is fixed through the chassis - and the guy who fitted it, gave me the same reasons for using the tube.
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easyclean - 70mph? mate I was in a head on at 45mph and there was nothing left of the front of the car (Audi A6)
Thats a tap mate.
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So where did you guys have your tank fitted, and how much would a rough estimate be? (on cost)
Where to go to get it properly fixed?
Our current LDV Convoy had its tank fitted by LDV themselves about 6 years ago.
Sarah
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easyclean - 70mph? mate I was in a head on at 45mph and there was nothing left of the front of the car (Audi A6)
Thats a tap mate.
Mabe it was at 70 KMH?