Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: U.S. wfp USER on February 22, 2007, 11:51:25 pm

Title: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 22, 2007, 11:51:25 pm
I hooked up my prefilters and my 4040 RO today and the water its producing is no better then 60tds.

I started with only 150 tds.  What could be wrong?

Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: Alex Gardiner on February 23, 2007, 08:46:32 am
Often these 4040 membranes need 'bedding' in. Try running it for 24-48 hours solid and see what it's like then.
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 23, 2007, 01:43:17 pm
Alex,

Thanks for the insight.  Should I run it at 50/50 or what?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: JM123 on February 23, 2007, 02:16:13 pm
Hi Shawn - like I said in my e-mail to you, it needs to be flushed for at least 2hrs before use.
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 23, 2007, 10:02:00 pm
flushing now.  we'll see what happens in a few hours.
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 23, 2007, 11:26:03 pm
Man I feel like a newbie all over again.

After flushing at 100% waste for 2 hours how long do I have to wait with it at 50/50 to get a good reading?

Thanks
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 24, 2007, 12:20:03 am
Flushed for 2 hours

Ran it for 1 hour at 50/50

TDS is 50  out of the tap its 150.

Not too good.
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: sair on February 24, 2007, 08:23:51 am
how much water  does it make, what is your water presure, if its too low the longer 20 inch pre filters you have can make a problem and allow insuficient presure

or is it in the housing the wrong way around
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 24, 2007, 07:05:00 pm
Here are some photos.

The water pressure out of the tap is 82psi.

When the ro is set to 50/50 it reads about 55psi.

I ran the unit at 100% waste for 2hours yesterday.  After that I set it to 50/50.  After 20 mins it read 80tds.  After an hour at 50/50 it read 50tds.

What can I do to get this thing working more efficient?
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 24, 2007, 07:11:27 pm
another photo
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: Roy Harding on February 24, 2007, 08:02:42 pm
It looks fine the way you have set it up.

One question you do have the out flow from your fillters to the out side hole in the r/o and not the in ?


Roy
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 24, 2007, 08:21:13 pm
The flow going into the ro is off center.  Waste is off center on the other end with the product water being on center.

I just ran it again for another 1.5hours. 

50tds at 50/50 was best.  If I set it to 80% waste 20% recovery then the tds goes down to 35tds.

The psi on the membrane is lower at 80% waste then at 50/50.  At 50/50 its at about 60psi and at 80% waste its at about 20psi.

I dont get it.
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: Roy Harding on February 24, 2007, 10:48:34 pm
I would do the following

1      take a tds reading after your pre fillters to see if the r/o is ok

2      If the tds is the same as after the r/o then you know its the r/o

3      I would take mebraine out and see if the O rings are seated right

4      Re seat the mebraine in the housing and take tds reading if still high

5      I would say a faulty membraine.


Roy




Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 25, 2007, 01:47:02 am
Maybe I should start with the membrane itself.  Here are some photos.

It came wrapped with a label with the manufacturers info on it that I removed.  The membrane itself is wrapped in a white tape material.  Im assuming that this is NOT to be removed.  Correct?
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 25, 2007, 01:48:30 am
The end with the black seal/brine seal is the end I use for the inlet end in the housing.  Correct?
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 25, 2007, 01:50:02 am
Photo of the other end of the membrane.  No black seal on this end.  This end is used as the product end when in the housing.  Correct?
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 25, 2007, 01:50:53 am
up close photo of the white tape wrapping the membrane.  NOT to be removed, correct?
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: Jeff Brimble on February 25, 2007, 11:58:38 am
On my small usa ro from ro-man the tap water supply (red) goes into the first sediment filter then through the second filter, the pre filtered water then goes into the single inlet of the RO housing(green). The ro slides into the housing from this end cap and the seal is tightened at this end. The water is forced thro the membrane and exits thro one of two outlets at the other end/base, one is the product water usually blue which can then go to a DI if needed and the other is rejection/waste (green) and goes to drain.

150 tap tds is not significantly high. Low is 50 high is 350 So there is something wrong it should be about 000 after the RO. Dont remove the tape. 80psi is a good tap pressure so its not that.
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: Roy Harding on February 25, 2007, 02:20:56 pm
I have not taken my 4 x 40 out of the housing but should there be 2 seals on at each end as there is a grove for one?

Roy
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 25, 2007, 03:37:02 pm
I was told there only is one seal and it goes on the inlet end of the housing/membrane.

On the other end the waste flows out of the membrane outside of the membrane and putting another seal would only cause all the water to go into the membrane????
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: sair on February 25, 2007, 04:03:04 pm
other way if i understand what you say correct the end with black rubber seal goes in the housing first as there is a seal in the end of the ousing that you took off

my reckoning its in the wrong way round as i said earlier

you would also do well in putting the presure gauge after the pre filters as you ll measure the drop more consistantly of the flow over them and be able to gauge when filters need changing and see the drop in presure.

 the presure gauge serves no purpose where it is now, but after it will help you see whether you need booster pump or when filters need to be renewed.

regards tony

Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 25, 2007, 04:27:32 pm
other way if i understand what you say correct the end with black rubber seal goes in the housing first as there is a seal in the end of the ousing that you took off

my reckoning its in the wrong way round as i said earlier

you would also do well in putting the presure gauge after the pre filters as you ll measure the drop more consistantly of the flow over them and be able to gauge when filters need changing and see the drop in presure.

 the presure gauge serves no purpose where it is now, but after it will help you see whether you need booster pump or when filters need to be renewed.

regards tony



The end with the black rubber seal needs to be on the end of the housing that has the product water and waste water coming out of it?

I will put the pressure guage after the filters as that makes sense.
Title: Re: Static system problem
Post by: U.S. wfp USER on February 25, 2007, 04:30:17 pm
http://www.gamurdock.com/gam/files/documents/GE-Membranes.pdf

The following document shows a photo of the membrane.  The brine seal is at the end with the flow water coming in so I did have that set up properly.