Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: lands on February 20, 2007, 07:20:50 pm
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Wonder if anyone knows what we should do.
Cleaned 2x2 Italian designer sofas and over wet so staining has come through from lining. Customer has had quote and report from manf. who have quoted £5.8k to replace and £4k to re-upholster (supply of material only). They are 6 years old. Thought our PL ins covered us but apparently there is a "contracted works" exclusion so that was a waste of bloody time and money.
Anyone know what we should do next?
Pete
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Pete
You got no info on your profile so update or your unlikely to get a response.
There are lots of pro cleaners that may sort this out with further info.
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PL policies only cover you for Public Liability, that is third party items, just like with car insurance when your own vehicle is not covered. With PL insurance in this business, the items you are cleaning are not covered. You need PL plus'Process' cover or 'Items worked on' cover. Bit late now, so as Paul says fill in your profile for more advice.
Dave.
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Its on now. Just so you know we have tried to rectify twice under the guidance of Prochem but customer will not let us make any other attempts to put right. For the sake of the profile we are London and Surrey based in Croydon and Caterham, Surrey and we are a partnership. We use only prochem methoeds etc. This is my fault, I shoud have used pre-spray gold and avoided such a wet clean as it was a very cold day that day and ventilation (other than doors in this property was poor.
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Hi Lands
Sorry but dont know your first name.
Loads of guys on the forum from that neck of woods that should be able to do something for far leass than the insurance quote of 4k.
Shaw you will get some response once they read,may be a good idea to put your name and number or email on the board, you may get a call to help out ;)
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Hi Guys,
Name is Pete Sweeney
email londonandsurrey@btinternet.com
07791 235113
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Lands,
What type of Fabric, how long ago was job done, did it stain straight away or was there a delay, what is colour of staining, is it like a water mark?
Dave.
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this is going to to be interesting, i wait with bated breath to see the outcome
who can rectify this prob , john kelly, steve gunn , paul moss,etc stand up all the pro hands hand help this guy out, i could be us one day , i hope not
ps what is the colur of the fabric.
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Hi Dave
Did job first week in Jan. Didn't stain until a few days later. It was a yellow to brown (there is a yellow lining inside cushions but don't know if that has caused the brown mark on inside of underneath the sides (does that make sense) which looks very much like a tide mark. The cushions and backs are more like urine colour but appear as thick but faint lines. The sofas are from a range called cassina and are called maralunga purchased from a company called Chaplins in Pinner, Middx. After second attepmt under advice of Prochem to make them better they did improve (used fibre shampoo and next step was to use that with oxibrite but she is having none of it) The customer is getting quite heavy handed (which of course I don't blame her for but she did let slip at one point that she wished they were not white and would like a different colour. Tried to upload photo but my techy skills are poor.
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Maybe contact Paul Pearce at the NCCA if it can be rectified he will do it I think he is based in Surrey
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when white sheets get water stains it is very difficult to remove without bleaching, the cushions if removable, may benifit , from this only a thought
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Unlikely anyone would be willing to rectify it for you or they will inherit the problem. However the customer needs to understand that she has to give you the chance to rectify the problem which sounds like browning. The Prochem advice is the next step. You need to put this to her in writing.
What detergent did you use. Sounds like a cotton fabric which should have been cleaned with an acid based product.
If you have already admitted responsibility then I'm afraid you are going to have to swallow it. You could hold out and offer her an imdeminity settlement (current value) which she then may take you to court and try your luck. Sorry couldn't be more helpful.
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Pete,
Buy the sofa, or in other words buy the customer a new one, tell her it was 6 years old so you think you should buy a new one for a bit less than that was new, if shes going to be kind she will.
but insist you have this one, fix it best you can and sell it.
might be the least expensive way out ;)
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Paul Pearce is your man, he is based in surrey and speciaises in putting right other cleaners mistakes i doubt his charges are cheap but i would expect a little less than 4-5k as has been suggested.
Paul will at the least be able to tell you that the problem cannot be rectified, with any luck he will put it right for a couple of hundred quid heres a link to his site http://www.healthyhome.co.uk/
If all else fails, cut of your current phone number
get a new 0800
and your new name is "xxxxxxxx carpet care"
good luck in your new buisness ;)
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I think I'll be talking to Paul, I don't live in a caravan. Thanks guys, your input is much appreciated. Pete
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If, as John suggests and I agree, from several hundred miles away, that the problem is " browning ", it has nothing to do with the backing, but everything to do with possible overwetting and uneven drying.
If this is the case, it should be possible to remedy, but you need to get it out of the house and checked by someone of Paul Pearces stature, in this business.
What the owner will be concerned about, is the possibility of it, not being rectified, getting worse, what your proposals are..................
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I like a nice ending.
And all the good guys are called Paul ;D ;)
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Just so that you are aware.
Even if you had the type of insurance that would cover you for this problem they WOULD NOT pay out for a BRAND NEW suite.
Commercial insurance pays out to the value of the item at the time of cleaning, so they would only compensate the customer to the value of a 6 year old suite.
If you claim on your car insurance policy do they buy you a brand new car, even though its 6 years old ? NO, they give you the current market value for a 6 year old car. New for old insurance is only available on domestic policys.
You may well get more technical info on this if you post on www. cleantalk . co .uk
Some of the top men in this industry will not post on this forum, because of a falling out with the owners a couple of years ago.
good luck
Chris
ps Photos would be a big help. Also taking away a damaged cushion for a pro to try and put right would be a good idea
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Hi Pete,
I had a situation similar to this a year or so ago. Suite wasn't quite so expensive, problem wasn't as bad but I did have treatment risk cover.
When I contacted my insurance company they asked how old the suite was, 10 years old I said, they said that insurance cover payout will reduce depending on the items age year by year. I'm sure they said something like 10 percent a year devaluation and after 10 years there will be litte or no value in the item in their opinion.
As you haven't by the sounds of it got treatment risk cover I would seek legal advice if it goes that far, as it was 6 years old theres no way you're liable for replacing with new or getting it re-covered at that cost!
Hopefully it won't come to that and someone can sort it out for you.
Good post Chris, great minds think alike ;D
Good luck,
Jason.
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Clean talk ;D ;D ;D :o ??? :-X :-\ :'(
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top men ???
whats wrong with us then Chris? lol.
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whats wrong with us then Chris?
Nothing at all mate ;D
But John Bolton is the man to ask for info on a tech problem like this, and he will not post on this forum.
regards
Chris
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Jason
How did you get a misuss like that you ugly rat. :D
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Hi Paul,
Thanks mate, its a good picture of her but a bad one of me ;D!
One too many glasses of sangria!
Why isn't there a picture of you with your profile?
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Jealousy will get you nowhere ;D
Not all carpet cleaners are good looking, fit young studs like me!
As you well know :D
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Id agree with Steve Gunn on this one, time to run for the hills and let the NCCA sort it out, they will recommend Paul Pearce im sure, i dont think he will be cheap but he delivered my training (with Pawlo) at the NCCA course and this guy knows his stuff. Another guy that certainly knows his stuff is John Bolton but as previuosly described he wont post on here, id trust my reputation to either of these gents, Along with Ken Wainwright and Derek Bolton, if these men cant sort you it cannot be sorted, another idea may be to post on some of the american forums, you never know our cousins across the pond may have a answer to your problems. I wish you luck, jus out of interest what extraction machine do you use?
Dene
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As every one has said, the In s Co will not give her a new suite, they will pay on indemnity ie take the value off because of the age.
If nothing can be done her best bet is to claim on her own Insurance. That way she will get 'new for old' and as both units are damaged she will get both replaced, if only one item was damaged they would only replace one item with a possible contribution towards the other uinit.
You then pay her excess which is probably £75.00.
Hope it goes well for you.
Our fingers are all crossed. Let us know how you get on.
Murky
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If she tries to claim on her own insurance and tells the truth about how the event happened (i.e. a result of hiring a professional cleaner to clean the items) they will not allow the claim, as it is not accidental damge.
Dave.
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I would put my money on the fabric being an off cream (Wholemeal) linen, course woven. Prone to pool browning, the browning often looks like patches of coffee stains, has an aroma and creates tiding.
Occurs mostly on linen fabrics when left for time in a damp and alkali state, usually on the bottom of base cushions when they have been returned to sofa before dry.
Does the fabric also feel less supple and doesn't quite have the original soft feel?
Ps.. I would love to taste a small section of fabric, I could tell you approximately what you left the pH at, and pull it to where it needs to be. Don't litmus the fabric, results are very unreliable doing this.
Have rectified them in the past.
Regards
Peter
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There are a lot of assumptions being made here....we don't know what the fabric fibre content is or what the reverse of the fabric looks like. Then again one would need to know what chemicals were used and the procedure that was carried out.
It may well be browning but it could also be a pH sensitive dye....the comment about 'thick lines' would indicate a colour movement within the fabric
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An interesting thought is that if you've cleaned 3-400 suites and there has been no problems, with all bar one, one would tend to think that the problem may lie with the suite???? ie a liner that hasn't been dyed correctly or is unstable or a dye that reacts to acid rinse etc.
If the fabric or liner is unstable then the problem lies with the manufacturer not the cleaner, however has the suite been cleaned before without problem? if so then i'm afraid that you may have to bite the bullet.
Hope these thoughts may be of help
Kind regards
Dave
Ps some chemicals that i have used in the past have caused browning in materials, make sure you are using good quality chems. ???
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Peter B's assessment is spot on. Have Paul Pearce on the case. Had never heard of him prior to this situation (only 18 Months in industry). Waiting on his report. Will let you know outcome. Once again, thanks everyone, I think I've learnt more from you lot on this post alone than I did on my Prochem training course.
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Best of luck, let us know the outcome. Even if it is completely your fault, I'm sure there are ways and means of not ending up being £4K + out of pocket.
Shame it didn't happen on a £499 suite from DFS!!!
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Hi Pete,in your original mail,you indicate that what has happened is because the fabric has been over wetted(unless I`m reading it wrong! ) In your view if the material had have been dry cleaned or not wetted out as much would the same thing have happened? Something similier
happened to me years ago.My insurance company organised the local ServiceMaster to inspect and provide a written report.In writing he said the material had been overwetted and a too high a ph solution had been used.I wrote(as I had been instructed by the ruling of my insurance co.) and denied all ServiceMasters comments which I believed to be the case.If your saying the suite was overwetted,,,,,,,its an admission of liability really as I see it although I could be wrong.Could you clarify thanks.