Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Van the man on February 20, 2007, 12:01:58 pm
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Hi Chaps
I am a window cleaner of 8 years with a workforce of myself and 2 others, currently using the trad. method. I am now seriously contemplating, also using a WFP system as well, and take on a couple of extra bodies. I intend to switch over some of my existing customers to Wfp and also canvas for the bulk of my new Wfp work, both residential (which is what my existing work is) and commercial.
I don`t mind spending a few quid for the right Wfp system, but do you get what you pay for?
Or will I be wasting my money on a fancy system?
Also, how do you Wfp boys get on in the rain?
Should you have a 2 man crew for Wfp? If so, why?
Look forward to hearing your thoughts.
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hi Van
To me its all about producing pure water,and I have found through experience it can be expensive.If you are to convert all of your customers to WFP,it can be very daunting.You build your work up to how you want it and then worry how many will get rid of you cos they dont like change.I went straight in at the deep end a few years ago with a tucker system,cost a lot of money and not really the desired work for it.What i now have is a static sytem producing water all day in my garage with just a delivery system in my van(tank and pump).I think to start with you would need to go down the trolley road and if you dont like then not too much outlay and when your commercial side builds up then a van mount system.But you dont need to go for one of the rolls royce systems,as i stated earlier its all about producing good water.
wayne
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So you don`t get a better clean with an omnipole, tucker, ionics etc. compared to a cheaper unit? As I will be trying to convince some of my existing (loyal) customers to change over, I really want to offer them the best quality of clean possible, will i be doing that with a cheaper system?
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Hello Van the Man,
Yes you do get what you pay for when it comes to a WFP System. You say you are a 3 man workforce, will you all be working together all the time? If so you will need a 1000L system to keep the 3 of you going all day. How high will you be working? Anything over 40ft and you should use Carbon Fibre Poles, even though they are more expensive they are lighter and more rigid. Will you want a hot or cold water system. Do you already have a van? if so you will have to take it's payload into consideration. A 1000L system requires a min payload of about 1500kg. Have a look here www.ionicsystems.com (http://www.ionicsystems.com) or give them a call on 0845 22 66 002 or if they are a bit expensive for you try here www.pure2o.co.uk/shop (http://www.pure2o.co.uk/shop)
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Van
I have a 1000ltr ibc tank in my garage with £300 RO system on it.I change the filters regularly and myTDS reading never goes above 004.In the van I have a 650ltr baffled tank secured through the floor with a relay battery and a 60psi pump.It delivers 100% pure water to the window.What I will say is get decent poles and brushes and keep the brushes clean.I paid £4k for a tucker system(360ltr) a few years ago and the best thing about tucker is the poles,quality in my opinion.This is only my opinion,and what I am happy with.I have a lot of customers and no complaints.You can spend a lot of money on setting up so its important to get it right.
wayne
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Do you need a 2 man crew for Wfp work, or does it depend on the type of work you are doing ?
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No, you don't NEED 2 men for WFP but for bigger jobs it will be a lot easier if there are 2 of you
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Van
It depends on the type of work,for residential I do the tops WFP and the bottoms trad.Thats to save on the water and how my round is.For large industrial work I prefer to work as a 2 man team,when youre poling at height it can be pretty hard work so when your arms ache give the pole to someone else.
wayne
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Van the man,
Are you from Basingstoke?
Andy
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Hi Van the Man,
Changing to WFP - what a great idea. I did this about 6 years ago and have never looked back. From the sound of your post you seem to take your business seriously so making the switch should be done in a professional manner.
Do not waste any time or effort with a trolley system, go straight to a decent size van system. If you have the space at base/home then a static tank with delivery pump is the easiest and most cost effective way of producing large amounts of pure water. Then all you need in your van is a tank, pump, hose reels and your selection of poles.
"Do you get what you pay for"
'Not always'. When it comes to producing pure water it is actually a very simple procedure, there is absolutley no benefit (other than lack of set-up hassle) of spending a penny more than you need to. Pure water is pure water.
When it comes to pole choice the answer is 'most of the time'.
"Do you need a 2 man crew for Wfp work"
No. A single operative will work just as well, but why not maximise your profit potential and have 2 WFP users.
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Not from Basingstoke, outskirts of Croydon.
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hi van man
we are based in east sussex/ 20 mins Tunbridge Wells
www.essentiallypure.co.uk
check out our prices and what we supply also if you want to come down and see our systems we will happy give a demo show you around no comittment, if nothing else will give you a better idea of what your needs are
we stock various poles from the super light to face lifts carbon fibre
we have a customer in essex who runs three men on wfp from a 750 system
all day domestic
he has just ordered another one for the next three boys he doesnt run out of water. feel free to call
mark / tony 07950 706623/07944 227635
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you don't sound like you have the kind of setup where you'll benefit from going the DIY route, were you a one man outfit that might be different, but you can spend an awful lot of money that you don't need to spend if you are not careful!
I'd only consider goingthe route of the big boys (Ionics for instance) were I considering leasing a couple of systems, I understand that it can work out cost effective if you are equipping a couple of vans with a full system, it allows you budget and plan ahead effectively.
but a big fancy system won't do any better a job than a more simple system, ultimately it is still a brush on a stick (as squeaky might say)
As Alex has said, a tank and a delivery system + relavent poles & brushes in your van/s And a static pure water production setup and transfer pump at your base.
Whether you are commercial or domestic, WFP is fine for either, but the size of system you go for will be dictated by your work.
Take your time, check out the options but don't spend more than you need too!!!
Ian
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i think you do get what you pay for .but you can still pay over the odds if your not weary .
also i think that any serious wc buisness should be running a wfp system .it makes you more pro and opens up more doors when it comes to comercial work .
so yes expensive but worth the hassle in the long run .
good luck .
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I'd disagree with Eddie here, I don't think the system you have makes a ha'porth of difference to a potential customer, most are not going to be interested in coming out to your van to have a butchers at what you've got in there, a glossy brochure might look smart but most of the time it will be you the individual that gets the work not the equipment you use.
All they will see when you are actually doing the job (or your employees) is a guy with a long pole with a brush on the end of it and a yellow hose trailing behind them to the van...and that's it.
The more simple a system is, the less there is to go wrong, it need not be complicated.
Ian
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I agree with Ian, pure water is pure water, and as Alex says with poles, yes you get what you pay for, depending on the hight and workload this is the area where you should invest. Theres plenty of info here, do some research on previous posts about different poles, its worth it in the long run.
Simon
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Pure water is pure water but to an extent you do get what you pay for but you can pay a lot more than you need to. I have an Ionics system and I am very pleased with it but I took a mate of mine to the guys at Purefreedom to see what they could do for him because they are only an hour away from me and I had seen and heard good reports about them and their kit. He got at least as good a system as mine if not better because they tailor made some usefull little extras for him. His system cost him a whole lot less than I paid. :(
They were real busy but took plenty of time to talk to us and seemed businesslike but down to earth. He has his system now and he is over the moon with it.
I don't know if this is OK but here is a link to their website. www.freedomwfp.co.uk
It should be OK as I see suppliers sticking their links up on the forum
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Hi Van
I can assure you as a system builder that you do get what you pay for to an extent - at the end of the day pure water is pure water. However as you have 2 men on the books you need a fair bit of water so you need an ro that can easily handle what you require. Also its best to run 1 pump per pole, allows for greater control of flow etc. There are a few more considerations to make (type of hose, length of hose per reel, what reels etc etc) but probably the most important consideration is poles, you spend a lot of time working with the poles so you need to make sure you buy the lightest, most rigid poles you can afford.
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I agree with JM123, I'm in no way knocking the people that make whole systems! Only that you don't need to spend more than you need too!!
Ionics do a top of the range, zero waste hot water system, I'll bet it is a really top piece of kit too, I believe they are the only ones to do it too, so pretty exclusive and if you have loads of wonga and lots of high paying work then dive in & fill yer boots!
There are quite a few on here that can fill your needs for considerably less than Ionics though, Alex Gardiner, JM123, Peter Fogwill, Sair and a few others...it's early and I've not woken up enough to post links to them all I'm afraid :-\
And there are others who's names escape me forthe moment...and Freedom was mention (plus link) in the previous post to my own ;)
Ian
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If your in Croydon pop along to omnipole great systems , good people they wont put you wrong
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Hi Van the Man,
Changing to WFP - what a great idea. I did this about 6 years ago and have never looked back. From the sound of your post you seem to take your business seriously so making the switch should be done in a professional manner.
Do not waste any time or effort with a trolley system, go straight to a decent size van system. If you have the space at base/home then a static tank with delivery pump is the easiest and most cost effective way of producing large amounts of pure water. Then all you need in your van is a tank, pump, hose reels and your selection of poles.
"Do you get what you pay for"
'Not always'. When it comes to producing pure water it is actually a very simple procedure, there is absolutley no benefit (other than lack of set-up hassle) of spending a penny more than you need to. Pure water is pure water.
When it comes to pole choice the answer is 'most of the time'.
"Do you need a 2 man crew for Wfp work"
No. A single operative will work just as well, but why not maximise your profit potential and have 2 WFP users.
I have to agree with this man. ;)
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Hi Van
All i can say about the wfp way is what i see from my office with all walks of window cleaners coming in from one man and an estate car to corporate companies,
The choice of system depends soley on your circumstances, cost shouldnt come into due to very attractive leasing options.
One or two operatives, its up to you although we deal with customers that have one operative and will look to acheive around £150-£180 aday from wfp or with two operatives £300-£400 aday from wfp
now if you have two men trad doing £200 a day then one man will do that with wfp thus saving you wages
the choice is yours
rgds
stuart
www.skypolesystems.com (http://www.skypolesystems.com)
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Hi Guys
I purchased a complete system from pure freedom 3 months ago comprising of:
30ft glass fiber pole
8ft glass fiber pole
sureflo pump (100psi)
varistream controller
100 mtrs microbore hose and reel
250ltr flat tank
200gpd R/O
all for less that £1000 inc vat
The poles are streamline which i have seen most suppliers selling, both with Vikan brush heads.
I have since purchased a 1000ltr ibc tank for bulk storage.
My only fault was that i wish i had purchased a larger tank for the van but was limited by the weight as i operate from an escort van. And also changed the supplied pencil jets to fan jets as i found them better for rinsing down. A colligue who has been in the business for 30 years now operates a Tucker system but is so impressed with my purchase that he has now kitted out another van with the same system with no complaints.
My advice is to shop around as most companies appear to supply the same components with astounding price variations.
As for customers, I have lost 0 customers by using the WFP. Most have actually praised the systems ability to clean their windows. But as others have stated I maintain my water quality to a TDS of 0ppm. That and good rinsing is the answer.
My opinion only