Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dougster on February 13, 2007, 07:51:06 pm

Title: poaching work
Post by: dougster on February 13, 2007, 07:51:06 pm
I went and cleaned a house yesterday, just as i have done for the last eight years. And this old bloke comes out and says he has had a telephone call last week from a windowcleaning firm in blackpool offering to clean his windows for cheaper than his normal window cleaner, thankfully he declined and said he was perfectly happy with the current windowcleaner as usual.

And the old chap then passed me the phone number for this firm, so i was considering sending them on a wild goose chase.

Has anyone else heard of this firm trying to poach there work
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Dave hook on February 13, 2007, 08:31:35 pm
Get your mrs to ring them and arrange for them to clean a house on the same road as the old guy. wait till their up there ladder then go kick it from under them! If they can get up and walk away bet they wont canvass that area again!
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: pylofm on February 13, 2007, 08:36:29 pm
Great reply...I suppose you're the type that believe's they 'own' an area.  ::)

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=32937.0
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: poleman on February 13, 2007, 08:47:10 pm
I agree, Dave is just as bad as the poacher  >:( well at least the poacher wont be on a manslaughter charge! 

Andy
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: steve k on February 14, 2007, 06:40:42 am
yeh Dave...of course ???

nothing like a quick prison stretch to clear the mind of such worries >:(
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Dave hook on February 14, 2007, 06:35:02 pm
I dont think I "own" an area but I do know I "own" a house and I "own" a child that needs feeding and I feel strongly about window cleaners just turning up and trying to under price you on work youve cleaned for years! Of course I wouldnt kick a man off a ladder thats stupid but its an example of how frustrating canvassers are. I get on fine with every window cleaner near my work and often stop to chat, but there is 1 company in macclesfield that constantly goes round canvasing mine and the other nearby wc work!
   Twice ive told them to bugger off and each time they poop there self and appologised but still come back! What do I do???
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: JM123 on February 14, 2007, 06:39:47 pm
nothing wrong with canvassing, thats how most rounds are built at one point or another - the thing that has me well cheesed off today is a local shiner who cleans next door to one of the houses I do knocked their door last week, told them that he will do the windows for £1 less than what I do them for!!  He knows I clean that house, I've spoke to him before while he's been up the ladders and I've been whizzing past him with the pole - well they took him up on his offer so I've a good mind to undercut him on a few of his just to show him how much it can p people off.
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: pylofm on February 14, 2007, 06:43:54 pm
Dave, undercutting is bad...but your first comments were all I could see, so what sort of reaction did you think you would get???

Dave
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Dave hook on February 14, 2007, 06:50:34 pm
Had a bad day at the the office on the day of my 1st post! haha.
 Im a friendly chap once you get to know me! ;D
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: windolene on February 14, 2007, 06:59:48 pm
Hi,


I am very suprised that the customer changed her window cleaner for the sake of £1. Surely it cant have been just to save a £1 a month or whatever.!

Kevin WINDOLENE.
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: JM123 on February 14, 2007, 07:02:02 pm
has to be, I always do a really good job on the windows.
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: pylofm on February 14, 2007, 09:01:26 pm
Dave...Hands-up for me too...Suppose we were both having a bad day...lets make-up and be friends ;D

Dave
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Mr.G on February 15, 2007, 12:36:03 am
I dont think I "own" an area but I do know I "own" a house and I "own" a child that needs feeding and I feel strongly about window cleaners just turning up and trying to under price you on work youve cleaned for years! Of course I wouldnt kick a man off a ladder thats stupid but its an example of how frustrating canvassers are. I get on fine with every window cleaner near my work and often stop to chat, but there is 1 company in macclesfield that constantly goes round canvasing mine and the other nearby wc work!
   Twice ive told them to bugger off and each time they nuts there self and appologised but still come back! What do I do???
Dave, how do you mean, nuts thereself?
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Paul Coleman on February 15, 2007, 07:07:16 am
I dont think I "own" an area but I do know I "own" a house and I "own" a child that needs feeding and I feel strongly about window cleaners just turning up and trying to under price you on work youve cleaned for years! Of course I wouldnt kick a man off a ladder thats stupid but its an example of how frustrating canvassers are. I get on fine with every window cleaner near my work and often stop to chat, but there is 1 company in macclesfield that constantly goes round canvasing mine and the other nearby wc work!
   Twice ive told them to bugger off and each time they nuts there self and appologised but still come back! What do I do???
Dave, how do you mean, nuts thereself?

Nuts is a word that is used by the automated censor on this site.  On of the words it replaces is the word for the brown stuff.
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: lucymulligan on February 15, 2007, 08:40:28 am
i just started out a few weeks ago .... ive knocked on doors of people who already have window cleaners and i just smile and say "ok well is it ok if i leave a card and if your normal guy dosnt show ,then you know i am here" .... its there choice ... but i am to provide a good friendly reliable service ..so anyone thats not going to provide that will lose out ........... having said that  i have got a house to clean on saturday and yesterday i saw the chap and he said .." ive just had a flyer from a WFP company who will do my windows (same price as me ,but i am Trad ) but it says that it will take a couple of cleans to get clean maybee even 3 ! so i will stick with you "  ...... im not bothered but ive only just started and i already got competion . you never know if the house you knock at already has a window cleaner
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Dave hook on February 15, 2007, 09:10:32 pm
The answer to that is simple lucy, buy a round
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: dougster on February 15, 2007, 10:32:53 pm
I agree with dave , as i have spent thousands on rounds in different areas. And when i first go to buy a round/ area one of the first things i do is ask is there any other windowcleaners on this patch. if they say yes, i say i am not interested. as i want to buy an area.which is mine.   around my area there is always rounds for sale in lancashire, and the understanding i have is that if it is a new build good look to the first windowcleaner to get in there. Hence why i and others do builders cleans so we can get the job of cleaning the windows.
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: lucymulligan on February 15, 2007, 10:40:50 pm
urm what if there is no round to buy ??? what if it is all just odds n sods area you gotta pave your way right ???
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: lucymulligan on February 15, 2007, 10:41:49 pm
what oyu mean buy a round
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: zeusjazmin on February 15, 2007, 10:42:28 pm
i have been canvassing many years ago,if i went to an estate and ,5 or 6 of the first doors chaped had a window cleaner i just walked away,that was my way of doing it
i know we dont own areas but,in the past i have been asked to go to a certain area to clean a house,if i know there are regular cleaners in the area i dont go.
i have passed on work quite a few times because of this
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: DaveWilkinson on February 15, 2007, 11:43:16 pm
Its a nice idea to "own" a round or area, the only thing that spoils it is in todays society customers have the right to choose who cleans there windows and most wc's have accepted that fact and I think its better that way.

If you live on a wc's patch and he carn't clean windows to save his life does that mean you can only get a bad job done or no job, you can not go and get a good wc ???.

What about if you got the local painter to paint your window frames and he did a bad job, would you keep using him because he is the local guy, or would you ring another painter ???

Every other trade i can think of works any area they want, trading standards advice is to get 3 quotes, they dont say go with the cheapest either but a customer has the right to make sure he is being quoted a fair price and to choose who he lets do the job.

I dont agree with going out and targeting another wc round and undercutting them, but thats more to do with respect for fellow wc and because I consider prices today dont leave any margin for price wars.

Final thought.....why is commercial ok to compete over price but domestic isn't ???

DAve
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: brett walker on February 16, 2007, 03:41:03 pm
Poaching, i would look at it more as expanding your business i have heard for years from winodw cleanes in one of my areas say that this is my area patch work etc.  I tell them no-one owns an area its up to the customer who they wish to clean their windows and what service they require
If they are loosing customers they should be looking at their own standards and asking themselves why they are loosing business
If you are a good window cleaner and you do your job as you should you will have loyal customers you will soon sort out the time wasters, then when people come along canvassing poaching looking for new business whatever we want to call it you will still have your loyal customer base.

If someone cancels your service for a petty reason for another wc they are not worth having there are plenty of customers out there

Undercutting is a sticky subject are we yet again telling the customer what they can pay is it not up to them if they want to pay more or less and if they want to shop around as we all do.   I will be the first to admit i charge as much as i can because of the standard of my work so i cant complain about undercutting, so this just leads us back to someone saying this is my patch so it seems to go round in circles.

At the end of the day in your area and my area there are loads of window cleaners as you would have noticed some of them will pass the time of day and some of them look at you as if they want to kill you we are all in the same job, even if you buy a round it doesnt give you sole rights its all about business and earning a crust

regards  :P

Brett
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Dave hook on February 16, 2007, 07:41:04 pm
If youre good at your job theres no need to canvass, word of mouth will get you more work than canvassing anyday. Ive never canvassed in my life not even when i started out. I worked for a chap when I was younger saved my wages, bought a round then expanded by word of mouth and people noticing the uniform etc.. Thats how it should be done and if we all did it no wcs would fall out about who cleans/owns what!!!! Youve gotta speculate to accumalate, not undercut or poach thats pathetic!!!
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Majestic on February 16, 2007, 08:04:08 pm
Dougster

I do work in Blackpool , whats the name of the company
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Londoner on February 17, 2007, 08:35:49 am
Every road I work in has at least one and often several other window cleaners also working it. Most are one/two man outfits like myself. We don't get in each others way but I suspect thats going to change.

Loads of people are moving towards van mounted WFP systems and are effectively moving up a gear. Other people who would never considered doing trad are now seeing a business opportunity in window cleaning as a commercial venture.

This is being fuelled by a number of franchise companies who are telling people outside the trade that there are fortunes to be made (provided you first pay them a fortune) in window cleaning.Where do you think they are are going to get the work from?

They will  need to take the work away from someone else. Their arguement is that with slick sales techniques, flash vans and smart uniforms they will have the advantage. Like a lot of other businesses, its survival of the fittest.

Add to that our Eastern European cousins who will soon tire of labouring on building sites for £40 a day and will be looking elsewhere.

The shrinking jobs market is driving people to look for alternatives to feed their families. Many of the people on this forum came into the trade this way.

Poaching if you want to call it that, competition if you prefer is here to stay. We have had it all our own way in the past but that doesn't mean it will always be like it.
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: Ian_Giles on February 17, 2007, 12:01:25 pm
i just started out a few weeks ago .... ive knocked on doors of people who already have window cleaners and i just smile and say "ok well is it ok if i leave a card and if your normal guy dosnt show ,then you know i am here" .... its there choice ... but i am to provide a good friendly reliable service ..so anyone thats not going to provide that will lose out ........... having said that  i have got a house to clean on saturday and yesterday i saw the chap and he said .." ive just had a flyer from a WFP company who will do my windows (same price as me ,but i am Trad ) but it says that it will take a couple of cleans to get clean maybee even 3 ! so i will stick with you "  ...... im not bothered but ive only just started and i already got competion . you never know if the house you knock at already has a window cleaner

I think that Lucy has it right, this is honest canvassing, I think it only becomes poaching when you offer to undercut the opposition even when you haven't seen the property!! :o
I have been going donkeys years, and get on fine with all but one of my fellow window cleaners, none of us go out to undercut the others, nor would we dream of going up to one of outr competitors customers and offering to deliberately undercut them to try and get the job. (except that one guy that is ;))

That doesn't stop us competing for new work, nothing wrong with that, my the best man win (even Squeaky! ;D)
Where you get an undercutting culture, eventually the customer suffers as the only way of making money is to cut corners...

Ian
Title: Re: poaching work
Post by: dougster on February 19, 2007, 09:14:03 pm
john 
     didnt manage to get the name of the company, but will do the next time i phone them