Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: russ_clark on February 08, 2007, 09:38:22 pm
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I have recently installed two varistream controllers to serve my two 60 psi pumps.Both run 100m microbore hoses and I am having difficulty finding the correct setting.I have abided by the instructions and moved the setting back one at a time but to no avail .The pumps just do not shut off when un-plugging poles.
Can you help please ??? ???
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ok russ, the first thing you need to understand is that when the hose is coiled up the pump experiences more backpressure, this is due to an increase in angular velocity of the water as it travels through the hose - you see some of the water travels faster (like on the outside of a racing track) whilst the water closer to the centre actually slows down as water is incompressible and therefore there is displaced by the faster moving water - in turn this means you get an increase in back pressure - which you compensate for when adjusting the variable resistor in the varistream - only problem is when you unravel the hose to use it you have eliminated most of the coils and so the varistream is set too high and therfore when you disconnect the varistream won't switch off the pump.
try setting up the varistream with the hose unravelled and pulled out in a straight line.
other than that you may have a faulty varistream, poorly fitting connectors (not water tight) or not allowing long enough for the pressure to build up as over a 100m of hose there is a lot of surface area for expansion.
hope this helps.
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Have you disconected the pressure switch on your pumps
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ooohhhgood call, sorry I assumed you were running shurflo pumps, of course with aquatec pumps etc you don't need to disconnect the switch, just turn it up.
caught me out there paul!!
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thanks for advice guys
yes I have disconnected the pressure switches
will unravel the hoses in straight line tomorrow and try again.
Cheers
Russ
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remember to click back tomorrow and let us know how you got on.
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will do guys
thanks Paul & JM123
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ok russ, the first thing you need to understand is that when the hose is coiled up the pump experiences more backpressure, this is due to an increase in angular velocity of the water as it travels through the hose - you see some of the water travels faster (like on the outside of a racing track) whilst the water closer to the centre actually slows down as water is incompressible and therefore there is displaced by the faster moving water - in turn this means you get an increase in back pressure - which you compensate for when adjusting the variable resistor in the varistream - only problem is when you unravel the hose to use it you have eliminated most of the coils and so the varistream is set too high and therfore when you disconnect the varistream won't switch off the pump.
try setting up the varistream with the hose unravelled and pulled out in a straight line.
other than that you may have a faulty varistream, poorly fitting connectors (not water tight) or not allowing long enough for the pressure to build up as over a 100m of hose there is a lot of surface area for expansion.
hope this helps.
Very smart answer, I'm impressed. Just like to add one tip to that. Wherever possible fit non-return arrestors to help reduce the amount of work required by the pump.
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what the heck are non-return arrestors ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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what the heck are non-return arrestors ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Its a non return valve, allows the water to travel in one direction only, as soon as you switch your brush on water is instantly there, because the water can't travel back down the hose past the valve.
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URGENT HELP PLEASE
still no joy
have spoken with williamsons pumps (manufacturer) and they do not recognise my pumps.Apparently they are not shureflow pumps.
they are 60psi flo-pumps only supplied by omnipole.
waiting for call back from them now!!!
anyone else got one of these 60psi flo-pumps#????
and are they compatible with varistreams???????????????
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URGENT HELP PLEASE
still no joy
have spoken with williamsons pumps (manufacturer) and they do not recognise my pumps.Apparently they are not shureflow pumps.
they are 60psi flo-pumps only supplied by omnipole.
waiting for call back from them now!!!
anyone else got one of these 60psi flo-pumps#????
and are they compatible with varistreams???????????????
Russ
All the pumps should be compatible with the varistream.
I changed my pump this week, and I had the same problem as your getting, up until I put my new pump on all was working well, then I fitted my new pump and no way would it switch off, like you I turned the blue pot down one notch at a time, eventually I left the cover off and carried on adjusting it until it switched off, after checking the position of the pot, it was almost in the switched off position and it seems to be working fine now.
Perhaps one of the guy's can confirm, but there may even be a small screw on the bottom of your pump you can adjust to help with your problem.
Just a couple of things you can check, hope it helps.
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Hi i find having varistream set to approx 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock setting works fine though i am running a 100psi pump so you may need to increase a little also sounds like you need to adjust the little blue dial inside controller to adjust shutoff point
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Hi Russ
I have a 60psi flojet pump with a varistream and they work fine together, hope this helps.
Jeff
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Russ, maybe i've got the wrong end of the stick here but I thought the point of a varistream was to shut off the pump when the water was stopped or when the pressure had reached it's maximum required pressure. To change your poles you would turn off your water supply on the valve (on your hip) the pump would shut off then. Obviously when you disconnect your pole the pump will start up again unless you have a non-return valve on your pole connection like Gardiners Ez-snap connecters. Unplugging your poles will cause a drop in pressure otherwise and start your pumps up.
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Thanks for all replies to date
omnipole have confirmed flo-jet pumps are compatible too- so thats a relief.
I am getting somewhere but still not working properly.
I have completed testing the varistream by just plugging a short 1 metre length of hose into my system - this has got both varistreams flashing red then green (turning off then back on again).This is with the internal adjuster on minimum and the varistream control panel(front of unit ) set at approx 12 0'clock.
I have then done the same thing but this time plugging my 1 metre length of hose into my reels and one of them does the same thing (red then green,etc)
the other remains green (on) but slows down.
Ladders what reel / hose do you use please.
Any more suggestions guys ??? ??? ???
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What if you swap the pumps over? Perhaps one pump is not getting up to pressure? Then the Varistreem is still telling it to keep pumping but it has not enough power to get there?
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its a two man set up that I have .
I am testing the pumps seperately so I do not think that is the problem.
I have used them this afternoon both seperately and together with exactly the same results ??? ???
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Do you need the varistream??
If you have a 60psi Flojet pump with a 100 metre length of microbore you should have just the right flow rate as standard. Then you can just rely on the Flojet pressure switch to switch the pump when turning the pole valve off or unplugging.
We always try to keep the pump set-up as simple as possible.
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have you tried the pump on its own without varistream to check there is no fault with the pump. i also don't think you should have internal blue dial on lowest setting try all the way round turning one notch at a time then you can test as you go
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Thanks but I have been running the set up without varistreams
and when it comes to unplugging only doing it as little as possible.
Mostly keeping the poles attached and walking back to the van to switch them off.
I purchased the varistreams to enable me to unplug and not put undue pressure on the pump and also save a little water.
I have tested the varistream internal adjuster twice over completely going around the clock one by one.
My external (face ) setting I like around 1- 2 o'clock mark
Could it be that I have to reduce this (and reduce flow) to get the darned things to work??
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I purchased the varistreams to enable me to unplug and not put undue pressure on the pump and also save a little water
You can do this without a varistream i do it all the time without a varistream and never get a problem pump switches itself off.
I have a varistream but i didn't like it so took it back off.
I prefer the simple approach as Alex Gardiner has said less to go wrong.
Paul
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Paul
My pumps never turned off without the varistream
How did your turn off without one??
Having invested in this kit I would like to actually get it operating properly before I make a decision and fit them in another van.
Cheers Russ
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Hi Russ
If you fit a flow control valve (or something similar) to your pole hose you can turn the water supply off at your pole whenever you want to thereby saving maximum water. Turning the valve off at your pole will trigger your pumps built in pressure switch which will switch off and put your pump under no strain whatsoever. When you turn the valve back on, the pressure switch will switch the pump back on. This is exactly what the pressure switch on your pump is designed to do.
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So what is the point of a varisteam? is it just to provide adjustable pressure?
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Alex
Thanks for the info
My pumps have never switched themselves off when I have disconnected my poles.This is the whole purpose of me forking out for the varistreams.
I have the 2 x 60 psi Flo-pumps and neither one has ever done this.
Either I am being very unlucky here or there must be something more to it ( or I am doing something wrong)
The plot thickens and I am getting nowhere!
Do appreciate all the replies
Please keep them coming as I do not want to remove the varistreams at this stage of the game.
All I have done with the pumps is disconnect what I believe to be the pressure switch at the base of the pump (undo one screw and pull wires off two terminals)
This is exactly as williams pumps instructions
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Beginning to see where your coming from now Russ, so it looks to me like your pumps never build enough pressure for the varistream to sense that the pressure has been reached so they don't switch the pump off. Are your joiners weeping at all anywhere from your system? Didn't you swap your DI vessel to after the pump - don't know if it would make a difference though.
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My pumps have never switched themselves off when I have disconnected my poles.This is the whole purpose of me forking out for the varistreams.
You haven't got a bypass on your pumps have you?
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The pressure has always been pretty good as I do tend to use quite a lot of water.As for leaks I do use the plastic hozelock connectors but they are changed fairly regularly and I cannot see any leaks at all.
Rob - how do I find out if there is a bypass fitted??
Anyone else with a flo-jet 60 psi pump know the answer to that one ??
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Maybe posting some pics of your pumps and the setup may help someone to advise you better
Chris
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pics of the two pumps / varistreams
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Russ have you tried turning down the dial cause i use 100psi pumps 100m micribore and the vari2's are never used on more than the 11oclock position
Chris
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I have gone through all the settings again this morning on one of the pumps.
I have got the external setting at 12 o'clock and the internal on (a)
the result of this is that when I disconnect the pole the motor is slowing down and after about 30 seconds it goes off then 2 seconds later kicks in again
(all very slowly) and keeps repeating itself
So my question now is :-
once you unplug should the varistream shut the pump down immediately or is there a delay??
If there is supposed to be a delay in it shutting down the pump then its probably me being an impatient twat.
If there should not be a delay then I am getting warmer :)
but not there yet :(
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Hi Russ
I use same as you 100mtr microbore, hose reel from b & q.
Jeff
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Russ
Dont know if this makes a difference but your pump is not a flojet, it is a different pump to mine.
Jeff
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Thanks for that Jeff
They were purchased from omnipole who assure me they are manufactured by the same company ( Flo-Jet? )
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This is my pump & varistream Russ.
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Russ
mine stops about 4/5secs later and the internal (blue) dial is set on "G"
Chris
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Russ you say that when you unplug your pole the pump does not switch off, if the pump is still running where is it pumping water to.?
Jeff
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Chris -does it remain switched off??
Jeff -the pump motor is still working (you can hear it) so when I plug back in you can see by the increase in the water jet that the pressure most be building up.It does not blow any fixings off but can't be doing much good-which is why I have bought the varistreams in the first place.
Bit of a vicious circle for me at the moment ??? ???
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Russ it comes back on for a split second just to test the pressure then goes off again it does this every 10 secs or so, The longer it's in this mode the 10 secs seams to stretch to maybe 20/25 secs
Chris
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Thanks Chris
Thats good news then
I think I may have one of them set up - nearly ;D ;D
Now for number two :'(
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As Chris says it will run for a few seconds after you unplug your pole or turn off your flow.
After that the light will turn red and your pump will stop,it will keep coming on for a second or two just to test the pressure.
Jeff.
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Hey Hey !!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Two varistreams up and running.
I have had to set them both on (a) internal and around 12 o'clock on the dial
I do think that if somewhere in the instructions it told you that it would shut the pumps down intermittantly I would have got there a lot quicker ??? ???
maybe or maybe I was just the impatient twat as stated earlier.
Many Many thanks to all for your assistance
Cheers Russ
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Glad youre sorted Russ
Chris
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Hi Russ,
I think I have spotted your underlying problem. On the photos of your set-up the hose on either side of your Flojet strainer is just pushed on to the barbs not 'jubilee' clipped on. This will allow air to enter the input side of the pump (only a small amount) but it will mean that the pressure switch on the pump will never fully 'switch'.
You have managed to resolve this by means of a varistream as this works on the pole side of the pumps pressure only. I suspect that the problem is still there though.
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Thanks for that Alex
You are quite right the hose is just pushed on the strainer barbs.
Thought that would be ok as the strainers are only plastic and if I 'jubileed' them they may crack??
I guess I am wrong again :)
Will get it done and let you know if it makes any difference.
Can you advise at all (as a supplier) re stronger industrial fittings as I use plastic
hoselocks at the moment and they may also be a source of leeking (although they do not at the moment- I'm pretty sure)
Cheers Russ
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Hi Russ,
Depends what size you need.
If they are for 1/2" hose on say a DI vessel then it is hard to do better than NITO quick release fittings, not cheap but very good.
For your microbore ends and your pole tails then I would recommend EZ-Snap connectors or similar.
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I can only think that there's a leak somewhere.
Try this, take the outlet pipe off the hose reel. so now you are left with just a couple of feet of hose coming from your pump. Start the pump, then fold the hose to stop the flow. If your pump stops, you know that there must be a leak further down the line. If it doesn't stop, then either you have wired the varistream up wrong, or the varistream is faulty.
As the Varistream cuts off the power to your pump when it senses the pressure build up, the pump can not be at fault. Dai
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Hi Russ,
Depends what size you need.
If they are for 1/2" hose on say a DI vessel then it is hard to do better than NITO quick release fittings, not cheap but very good.
For your microbore ends and your pole tails then I would recommend EZ-Snap connectors or similar.
you mean rectus type 21 female ends and schrader male?
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NITO quick release !
Rectus 21 female !
Schrader male !
Please advise where I can get supplies/ prices for these items?
Also want to upgrade my 1/2 inch hose to the best quality in my van.Any ideas where from?
Outside the van is all microbore for info.
Russ
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open up the box 4 screws inside there is a switch that will adjust the flow.