Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Dave hook on January 31, 2007, 08:06:20 pm

Title: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Dave hook on January 31, 2007, 08:06:20 pm
Just been looking through the ionics brochure at some of their wfp systems and the prices! Now ive read alot of comments on this forum about the "best" system and many people have different opinions. My question is, the systems that cost thousands in the ionics, brodex, skypole etc brochures dont look much different to the ones you see for sale on ebay. The ebay systems seem to have all the same parts as the top brands at a fraction of the cost. Is there really that much difference?? I can afford the prices ionic charges but would i be better saving some money or what?
Is the quality really that different???
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Easyclean Windows on January 31, 2007, 08:14:53 pm
Dave email me @ easycleanwindows@fsmail.net got some info for you
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Davew on January 31, 2007, 08:20:32 pm
I asked pretty much the same question and it seems if you have the money then go for the big names. What you won't get from Ebay is a crash tested cage/speedlining/guarantee/fitting etc. I had a good look at Concept20 and was very impressed. Looked at Ionics too very similar. If your going commercial then get one. I've gone down the Ebay route and saved thousands but I don't need to be running straight away so am quite enjoying the diy so far. Also not all the Ebay offerings are the same some really look a little dodgy.
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: edd on January 31, 2007, 08:37:21 pm
email me ive got some stuff for you too V8edd@hotmail.co.uk it will make you think twice!!! :o :o :o
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: groundhog on January 31, 2007, 08:44:09 pm
The price of wfp systems from ionics ect is ridiculous, save yourself thousands of pounds and fit your own system.
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Ladders on January 31, 2007, 08:51:26 pm
I have gone down the D.I.Y route, and i am very happy with my van mount system.

Saved myself ££££££. and it does the same job as much more expensive systems  :) :)

Jeff
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Neil Williams on January 31, 2007, 09:05:00 pm
I have gone down the D.I.Y route, and i am very happy with my van mount system.
Saved myself ££££££. and it does the same job as much more expensive systems  :) :)

Ditto: 26 ft pole and vikan brush, 50m hose and reel, 100 psi pump, battery,  250L vehicle tank...£600
330 GPD ROMan system and 1000L holding tank.
Total cost less than £1k

And does exactly the same job with the same results  :D
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: steveaqua on January 31, 2007, 09:07:08 pm
26ft pole :o you surely don't work with that all day do you? how heavy is it, we use 18 and 12 ft for all the work, i carry a 32ft pole and that is way heavy, to heavy to work all day with
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Easyclean Windows on January 31, 2007, 09:07:28 pm
Hooky have just sent
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Dave hook on January 31, 2007, 09:13:04 pm
E-mail recieved steve, cheers for that pal
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Neil Williams on January 31, 2007, 09:14:26 pm
26ft pole :o you surely don't work with that all day do you? how heavy is it, we use 18 and 12 ft for all the work, i carry a 32ft pole and that is way heavy, to heavy to work all day with

2Kg or so, Brodex
Easy to use all day.
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Easyclean Windows on January 31, 2007, 09:15:08 pm
No probs dave if you need any help give me a knock
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: matt on January 31, 2007, 09:21:46 pm
watch it folks

if you dont go with a "named system" you wont be in certain online gangs ;)

the t'internet is a wonderfull place, it helps spread the good word of DIY and saving money

<---------- DIY site, e.mail me for a link ;)
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Ladders on January 31, 2007, 09:30:56 pm
Steve B.

I think any pole would be o.k with your avatar  ;D ;D :P

Jeff.
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: crystal.clear on January 31, 2007, 10:24:57 pm
easyclean could you send me a email with ur info. im looking at buying a inonics and would like ur views
crystal.clear1@ntlworld.com thanks
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: macmac on January 31, 2007, 11:13:42 pm
26ft pole :o you surely don't work with that all day do you? how heavy is it, we use 18 and 12 ft for all the work, i carry a 32ft pole and that is way heavy, to heavy to work all day with

try a 24ft facelift carbon, i work with mine all day one handed!! bottoms too  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: poleman on February 01, 2007, 12:32:43 am
No we are not being ripped off, I am happy for someone to build me a tryed and tested in the field WFP system

Andy
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: DASERVICES on February 01, 2007, 09:22:19 am
Easyclean / v8edd,

Go on spill the beans, what's so bad that cannot be said on here  ;D

You're not going to tell me that there is price fixing going on  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Moderator David@stives on February 01, 2007, 12:58:03 pm
A Bentley and a lada do the same thing they will both get you from a-b.  the same as a kit car would.

I
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: paul wright on February 01, 2007, 01:34:33 pm
i think wfp are way to much !   u can get a 7.3m water fed tele pole from northern tolls for  83 pounds !!!  is there really such a big diff between this and say a 25ft wfp from tuckers at ABOUT 350 POUNDS ?
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: rhys11 on February 02, 2007, 10:07:09 am
I think ionics is a  ripoff  :o i looked on here done some research and went down the DIY rute .
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: John Peters on February 02, 2007, 02:34:49 pm
I drive a BMW M5, people who can't afford one tell me they're crap, but I don't believe them.

My chosen system is an Ionic Pro-7 Thermo-pure, it wasn't cheap but its the only Zero reject RO machine in the market, its also CE approved, nothing else is, and its crash tested. But the best bit is that because I use Ionic's literature and boast about my BWCA training certificates, I'm winning loads of new business at top prices. Because just like Ionic's I'm offering something to my customers that my competition can't, quality that can be measured.

On another thread someone said that Ionic make a big profit, good on 'em because that means they've got something that they won't want to lose. So just as in the past you can expect that Ionic will be the company to watch for new products that make our job easier, because they have the money to spend on R&D.

Hooky, don't be lead by all the silent whispers, be your own man look into it yourself, they're only jealous because they couldn't afford the best kit themselves.

John
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: matt on February 02, 2007, 02:56:19 pm
I drive a BMW M5, people who can't afford one tell me they're crap, but I don't believe them.

My chosen system is an Ionic Pro-7 Thermo-pure, it wasn't cheap but its the only Zero reject RO machine in the market, its also CE approved, nothing else is, and its crash tested. But the best bit is that because I use Ionic's literature and boast about my BWCA training certificates, I'm winning loads of new business at top prices. Because just like Ionic's I'm offering something to my customers that my competition can't, quality that can be measured.

On another thread someone said that Ionic make a big profit, good on 'em because that means they've got something that they won't want to lose. So just as in the past you can expect that Ionic will be the company to watch for new products that make our job easier, because they have the money to spend on R&D.

Hooky, don't be lead by all the silent whispers, be your own man look into it yourself, they're only jealous because they couldn't afford the best kit themselves.

John

Ive made BOLD 2 points you have made

quality that can be measured


now this isnt really true, is it ?? ??

you use a pump ( industry standard pump available to all )

you pump pure water ( 000 TDS) made by a RO ( available to all )

to a brush head with Jets ( also available to all )

why does does your system produce quality work that can be measured better than "mr X's system"

afterall its just a brush and pure water ( 000 TDS )

you must be a salesman's dream

2nd point

they're only jealous because they couldn't afford the best kit themselves

many choose not to buy your "super system", they may not be able to afford it, then again they might be able to ?? ?? they may choose to buy "another system" and save the money for a car / holiday / home improvement etc etc the list goes on, afterall they can see the end job is just the same ( afterall its the same pure water ( 000 TDS )isnt it )

i run a DIY system, doesnt mean Im poor ( or does it, did the salesman tell you that ) AND it doesnt mean you do a better job than me as we have noted above, same pure water ( 000 TDS ) going up a bit of pipe to a brush head with jets ( or does it, did the salesman tell you that ** ive seen a demo and they do tell people that, so no need to answer that question **)

i speak to a fair few online, and people come in 2 camps who have paid "top whack prices " for systems

Camp 1

they still blindly belive that the system is worth it, and everything the salesman told them is true

Camp 2

They wish they had either brought the bits off the shelf and gone down the DIY route OR had a cheaper system, they think that the price thay paid was a few K over the top and the were ripped off

its getting more and more often that people fall into CAMP 2 ( sure they wouldnt have contacted me otherwise, so i guess its not a fair gauge of people )

Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: DASERVICES on February 02, 2007, 03:05:42 pm
John,

Good on you as it's working out for you, but a lot of tend not to treat our window cleaning job as a business. Why, because prices are dire in some parts of the country so buying a £5k piece of equipment would take someone in a poor paying area a longer time than someone in a good paying area. By the time we have paid for it we will need to replace it.

It's these facts people need to consider when purchasing equipment and not listen to the sales pitch that you can earn thousands in a week. Some may do but some would be lucky to turn over £400 a week.

So in fairness one must consider their market place before spending loads of money then find they cannot cover the costs. Hence reason why I went DIY as I looked into this as well as buying. My market place was best suited for DIY.

Nothing against Ionics but people need to consider running costs etc.. and the last thing I would like to see is someone driven to debt because of bad sales advise.

Doug
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: John Peters on February 02, 2007, 03:40:57 pm
I don't often have time on my hands to post, but today is an exception. I'm firmly in camp 1 and my guess is that there are lots more like me but they're all too busy earning good money during the day and too busy spending it during evenings and weekends and don't generally feel the need to justify their choices.

I don't do houses any more, but I know window cleaners in my area who do. There is one who will argue black and blue that customers in the area won't pay more than £5, but I know another on the same patch who charges between £17 - £25. I'm not the cheapest either and regularly take contracts away from cheaper window cleaners who are missing a trick by not delivering what corporate customers are looking for these days.

Its not what you do, its how you do it.

John
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Moderator David@stives on February 02, 2007, 04:38:07 pm
I am finding out this week just how much people are willing to pay, and it is a hell of a lot more than you think.

Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: John Peters on February 02, 2007, 04:50:38 pm
Exactly Dave, the price barrier is usually in the mind of the window cleaner who doesn't value his service highly enough. Provide a top quality service, look the part and be confident about the professional way that you clean windows and charge accordingly.

John
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: steve k on February 02, 2007, 05:02:39 pm
hang on a minute John...I have just seen a post from you on January 28th...5 days ago :P

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=31680.0#msg249909

You say you have just received their brochure and they seem quite expensive.
You must have purchased this system in the last 5 days!!

They may be good but your not tellin me you have had a system a couple of days and are suddenly a successful commercial window cleaner...

The post says you are just getting into window cleaning... ???
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: DASERVICES on February 02, 2007, 05:05:45 pm
Is there an Ionics spy in the camp ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: macmac on February 02, 2007, 06:50:35 pm
COME ON JOHN, ANSWER STEVE K's QUESTION. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Count Phil on February 02, 2007, 07:02:19 pm
Yeah, and as to the 'loads of money to spend on R&D' arguement, the ionics brush is THE worst brush out there. A diy broom with jets is better. Honestly the crap they try and shift. But then if I used it I would earn loads more money....NOT
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 02, 2007, 07:10:51 pm
hang on a minute John...I have just seen a post from you on January 28th...5 days ago :P

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=31680.0#msg249909

You say you have just received their brochure and they seem quite expensive.
You must have purchased this system in the last 5 days!!

They may be good but your not tellin me you have had a system a couple of days and are suddenly a successful commercial window cleaner...

The post says you are just getting into window cleaning... ???

I've just checked this thread out and John doesn't have a post matching your description steve k - or has he deleted the post? Shall we ask the moderators or will John explain himself ...
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: steve k on February 02, 2007, 07:16:56 pm
he has deleted his post...?

On the 28th January 2007, he posted that he was just starting out in window cleaning and was looking at WFP systems on Ebay and had also received a brochure from Ionics but they seemed a bit expensive.
5 days later, he is on telling us he has a thermo pure system and it has allowed him to build a successful commercial window cleaning outfit with not too much time on his hands to answer posts on the forums but he was also one of the FIRST to purchase a Thermo pure system and that it is the best decision anyone could make.
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: AuRavelling79 on February 02, 2007, 07:21:50 pm
Jawohl Obergruppenfuhrer spymeister Steve! ;D

I have reported his presence to the mods to see if they can suss out if he is the real deal or not.

All this doesn't ring true to me!

Modified to add: - And for someone who's out working all day he seems to always post between 8.30 and 5pm!
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: matt on February 02, 2007, 07:57:22 pm
 ;D ;D

now this has turned into a cracking post

the best policy online is honesty

look at that guy who tried to blag me a while ago, first he was going to buy a van, in a few days he had a fleet of vans with a handfull of staff working for him and had a holiday home on the coast, he doesnt post much these days  ::)



Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Count Phil on February 02, 2007, 08:05:30 pm
Since ditching my DIY and buying a thermopure ionics system i'm positively turninging away massive commercial contracts which seem to magnetically attract to me. I now earn more because the brushs actually scrub the window for you. It's amazing. Ooh, the wife's just brought the aston home. I told her the ferrari is her car. Oh well, the pressure of success........ oh no, it's not the wife, its the ionics man bring me another brown envelope.
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: matt on February 02, 2007, 08:10:39 pm
Since ditching my DIY and buying a thermopure ionics system i'm positively turninging away massive commercial contracts which seem to magnetically attract to me. I now earn more because the brushs actually scrub the window for you. It's amazing. Ooh, the wife's just brought the aston home. I told her the ferrari is her car. Oh well, the pressure of success........ oh no, it's not the wife, its the ionics man bring me another brown envelope.

lol

not sure they give away brown envelopes, i belive its poles they deal in ;)
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: mark dew on February 02, 2007, 08:13:05 pm
heeheehee, i enjoy these threads
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: matt on February 02, 2007, 08:13:33 pm
heeheehee, i enjoy these threads

makes it all worthwhile :)
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: rhys11 on February 02, 2007, 10:19:51 pm
hang on a minute John...I have just seen a post from you on January 28th...5 days ago :P

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=31680.0#msg249909

You say you have just received their brochure and they seem quite expensive.
You must have purchased this system in the last 5 days!!

They may be good but your not tellin me you have had a system a couple of days and are suddenly a successful commercial window cleaner...

The post says you are just getting into window cleaning... ???
[/quote

nice one steve lol
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Dave hook on February 09, 2007, 06:50:29 pm
Is John Peters gonna explain himself? Does he work for ionics or something?
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Neil Williams on February 09, 2007, 11:08:41 pm
What do you think?
There are no ends to which Ionics and 'assosiated' companies will stop to try and take over the window cleaning world.
These people have no limits on how far they can go.
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Ladders on February 09, 2007, 11:24:42 pm
A Bentley and a lada do the same thing they will both get you from a-b.  the same as a kit car would.

I

Dave if you dot mind me asking do you have the bentley or the lada
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Dave hook on February 10, 2007, 08:31:41 am
Definately a lada at the mo, been having some problems with my system over last few week so im getting a new one. My vans also clocked up the miles im doing about 400/500 a week so could do wiv new van as well! Selling yours? ha
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Ian_Giles on February 10, 2007, 10:48:26 am
Many get confused with all the blurb out there, as Matt says, at the business end all systems are the same, pure water pumped up through a brush, and the rest is up to you.

Someone on here was extolling the virtues of and Ionics system, and how it made him more pro, inferring the system got him more work...quite how I'm not sure as I also read in another post how he keeps the back of his van locked (sensible, not criticising) and has his hose plumbed in through the side of the van.
So no one is going to see his flash system anyway!

And I've yet to find anyone outside of window cleaning circles who has the remotest comprehension of who or what Ionics/Brodex/Omnipole are! Or any of the other top end manufacturers are.

Get what you need, not what you want.

Though if you have deep pockets then go for the big expensive systems...

Ian
Title: Re: Are we being ripped off?
Post by: Davew on February 10, 2007, 07:55:36 pm
I loved the look of the concept20 system but whats the point? customers are only interested in how clean their windows are and how much they cost. Why pay so much for top end systems that nobody sees?