Clean It Up
UK General Cleaning Forum => General Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Jan K on January 27, 2007, 05:01:17 pm
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Further to me looking into Builder's Cleans, I have been trawling thro loads of information and came across the requirements for a CIS card. Now as I understood it this was only required if undertaking actual building work NOT for the cleaning of property aftwerwards.
Or is the CIS card required by a cleaning company as they are working on a building site.
Answers on a postcard.........
seriously any advice most welcome cheers all ;)
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You will need a CIS card, which you can get free at your local tax office.
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The company you work for will deduct usually 18% of your invoice for tax and give you a voucher which you can then use to offset against your tax bill.
The cards are just a case of going to your local revenue office and having filled in the necessary forms, getting a photo id card.
All subbies in the building industry have them and its no big deal
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hi there
cis is changing this year, there will no l0nger be any cards, and the IR will inform contractors of the subbies status , ie gross or net payments.
if yu are a limited company your cis deductions can be offset against your monthly paye return, if you are a sole trader or partnership you cannot do that.
and in that case your cis deductions are offset at the end of year against any tax due to be paid in your tax return.
there is a technicality in build cleaning, in the fact that if you clean new houses that are finished ie build complete, and are purely stock, or showhomes, then these are not liable to CIS.
if you are VAT registered, VAT is not charged on the construction related cleans, but stock plots, showhomes and site cmpounds are VATable.
regards
martin
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hi there
another factor is
depending on the billing scheme that the developer operates ie invoice per plot or payment application or self billing. the QS will be able to explain this to you, along with the tender dcuments.
regards
martin
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Hi Jan,
Even small building firms insist on CIS registration now.
If they don't insist, then they are probably dodgy and good luck getting paid!
And yes - it applies to all trades - even us lowly cleaners!
CIS is actually a godsend in some ways.
You don't have to worry about tax, as it is deducted at source (except to claim as much of it back as possible, of course!)
As of this coming April, the CIS system is changing. From what I can gather, the self-employed will no longer have to be CIS registered to work in construction. But more emphasis is being placed on the main contractor to supply all details of sub-contractors working for them.
To me, this just seems to be a step backwards - but I could be wrong.
If anyone can clarify...?
You were right in another post I saw.
If a self-employed person only does work (and is only paid by) one main contractor - the taxman will insist that that person is an employee.
And of course he will want the extra tax and NI owed!
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Hi Martin,
My accountant assures me that stock/holdings, compounds etc. are 0% rated.
He says the stock/holdings remain that way until sold, because they still fall into the new-build exemptions until the first time they are legally occupied.
Compounds are a necessary part of the new-build process and are also 0% rated.
No offense, but I hope he is right and you are wrong.
I have just been registered for VAT as of 1st Jan, and I have 2 compounds, 2 Marketing Suites, 6 Showhomes and 12 Stock/Holdings every week!
I will certainly get onto my QS, first thing Monday!
Help!
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QS? Are we talking Quantity Surveyor her cos it sorta dont sound right but I cant thinks what else QS stands for.
Now I remember why I didnt get into Builder's cleans in the first place ;D
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Yes Jan,
QS = Quantity Surveyor.
Also known by the following:
Quantity Buyer
God!
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ok so do i address him as your worshipful or just plain god ;D
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hi there
J Deans
i had it from the VAT direct about it, i think it is open to interpretation, as even different VAT persons have differing views, they did some digging for me.
als re CIS the main contractor will have to get the status from HMCE before they can process any payment. so in effect registration chnages.
as the HMCE will inform of the payment status. ie net or gross 18%
we do a lot of large commercial works, and on those the QS expects VAT to be charged, its a weird state of play.
regards
martin
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hi there
do nothing of the sort,
you need a cnstructive, equal level relationship with them.
sme of them just dont know what they are doing, whilst others are very very good.
i find a big difference between commercial builds, and domestic huse builds.
commercial being better, and easier to deal with,
regards
martin
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i was jokin martin:)
altho i will be on a much more serious and professional level when approaching the gods for the jobs :)
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jan
have u thought about adding carpet cleaning to your portfolio??
regards
martin
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i did, but there is sooo much competition on that side of things i cant be bothered tbh :)
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hi there
builders cleans are just as competitive, and its a tough market, but all good luck to you.
regards
martinj
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A few pleasures of 'New-Build' cleaning...
It's hard to get with a developer in the first place.
You had better be good - they will dump you quick-time if you are not!
It's surprisingly hard and varied work.
If you ever get a 'thank you' Frame and post it here!
The nice little 'retention fee' of 5% (half back on completion of contract and half 12 months later!)
Carpenters, plummers and plasterers make your life hell... but painters keep you down there!
(usually nice people though)
Still interested?
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hi there
i agree with all of the above
regards
martin
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i have no misconceptions about how difficult it is to get into builders cleans, but i aint got nothing to lose and i wont need any extra insurance or supplies/equipment. whereas carpet cleaning i would and theres no guyarantees of me being competetive enough :)
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Make sure your PL is at least 5million Jan, as some of the big developers expect that as a minimum
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Just had a look at one of my pay advice slips for last month.
Retention fee now standing at £3,450!
Just one contract, that has at least another year to run!
Money that's not in my bank!
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hi there
sme are l;ooking for 10 mill pl now
regards retention, i always argue it.
the argument- its clean now, unlike faulty kitchen installation.
regards
martin
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why a retention and why so long before they cough up?
is the retention a legal requirement or can it argued against successfully?
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Wimpey homes, jones homes, dont hold any retention from us, a faulty clean is ery ambiguous.
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hi there
jan
the retention is a clause in the terms and conditions that you agree to when you tender.
and if you negotiate the rentention out,then you need to get this in writing.
regards
martin
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cheers guys, getting there lots of info to gather before i kick off :D
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Hi Guys,
UPDATE!
Checked in with HMRC:
Martin, you are right (unfortunately)
Compound Cleans
Stock/Holding Cleans
ShowHome Cleans
All standard rated for VAT! (17.5%)
It has just taken me about 4 hours to go through January invoices to seperate the standard and zero rated items!
But I have to thank you for making me check. My QS had no idea, and their accounts dept. could'nt be definitive about it!
Cheers Martin
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hi there
ive got my system set up so that different cleans invie automatiacally with the appropriate VAT rate.
so not t difficult for me to do.
glad i could be of help
regards
martin