Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: david68 on January 27, 2007, 02:07:32 pm
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Was delivering leaflets through letterbox,
and as i push my card through letter box the dog chewed on my fingers.
Ripped by skin worse by pulling my hand out of box.
Please be aware of this and never let young children post leaflets for you.
After knocking door the owner came out. At first she started laughing and thought i was not serious.
Until i showed her me badged up things, which my customer dressed for me.
Due to my illness of cancer i now have to get a teckness and be put on anti biotics.
My consultant said it coul;d be serious so need to be treated to stop rabbies.
Just i report this attack?
Dave
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Should i report this attack???
Well i just have reported this to police
Dave
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This has happen to me about 10 years ago, at the time I did not report it, have to say it bloody hurt at the time and I still have the scare :( even now I am weary of putting my slip (windows cleaned) in the door
Andy
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sorry to hear that, is she an existing customer or a new one? you were out leafletting.
Reporting it to the police is probably not good for customer relations, what did the Police say?
As unfortunate as it is and it must have been painful, what do you hope to achieve by reporting it?
I have had a few near misses myself, one customer has two rottweilers and although they've missed my fingers they have eaten the bill in the past! I now stick the bill to the front door in an envelope.
Simon
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Dogs!
Sorry all you pet owners, I love animals... in their place.
I hate dogs! I never used to, but I do now. I've been bitten 3 times >:( enough already!
Dogs never used to be quite so numerous or agressive when I was a kid, but they have become like a lot of people these days...threatening and ferocious!
There should be a law. If a dog bites you wherever, whenever, the owner should face charges.
The only exceptions should be a criminal assault attempt on the owner or their home.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I hope the owner is fined!
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Should i report this attack???
Well i just have reported this to police
Dave
I'm sorry you were bitten by the dog.
But as the dog thought he was protecting his property whats he done wrong, ???.
I dont think it will be long before everything is banned in this country the way all this pink fluffy stuff is going.
I was bitten in the face about 8 years ago, 12 stitches on the eye brow & i nearly lost my left eye. The hospital wanted to notify the police but i said no because i was on his property.
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Burglar alarms go off when someone tries to break in. When I was burgled the Police said get yourself a burglar alarm it is a proven 90% deterrant. Dogs are not.
Exactly. A dog is not doing it's job, it doesn't know when someone innocent is calling.
Sorry, macc no offence meant to you.
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Should i report this attack???
Well i just have reported this to police
Dave
I'm sorry you were bitten by the dog.
But as the dog thought he was protecting his property whats he done wrong, ???.
I dont think it will be long before everything is banned in this country the way all this pink fluffy stuff is going.
I was bitten in the face about 8 years ago, 12 stitches on the eye brow & i nearly lost my left eye. The hospital wanted to notify the police but i said no because i was on his property.
Well if a person has a dog that reacts that way, it's not rocket science to install one of those cages around the letter box to catch the mail. I think the main poiint is that the injury was very preventable.
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Should i report this attack???
Well i just have reported this to police
Dave
I'm sorry you were bitten by the dog.
But as the dog thought he was protecting his property whats he done wrong, ???.
I dont think it will be long before everything is banned in this country the way all this pink fluffy stuff is going.
I was bitten in the face about 8 years ago, 12 stitches on the eye brow & i nearly lost my left eye. The hospital wanted to notify the police but i said no because i was on his property.
Well if a person has a dog that reacts that way, it's not rocket science to install one of those cages around the letter box to catch the mail. I think the main poiint is that the injury was very preventable.
Cars cause a lot more injury & deaths than dogs, pollution etc, ::)
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If you've been munched on by a dog with your fingers inside the letterbox then there isn't much you can do about it.
Technically you were breaking and entering, seems daft I know, but that is what my mates in the post office tell me, and they have way more experience with dogs than we do!
AS I've said in another post about dog biting, in over 23 years as a window cleaner I've not been bitten once.
One of my dogs was barking at the postman once, the postie didn't know i was watching, he cornered the dog and started driving the boot in.
I was a little angry at that....
so much so the postie was sobbing and begging me not to hit him by the time I'd finished with him, and no, I didn't hit him, but by god I wanted to.
He tried to say it had nipped his ankle, he changed his tune when I showed him where I was standing and had watched the whole thing.
A barking dog is annoying, but it doesn't deserve a kicking for letting me know someone is at the gate!
Ian
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Should i report this attack???
Well i just have reported this to police
Dave
No straw men allowed please :)
I'm sorry you were bitten by the dog.
But as the dog thought he was protecting his property whats he done wrong, ???.
I dont think it will be long before everything is banned in this country the way all this pink fluffy stuff is going.
I was bitten in the face about 8 years ago, 12 stitches on the eye brow & i nearly lost my left eye. The hospital wanted to notify the police but i said no because i was on his property.
Well if a person has a dog that reacts that way, it's not rocket science to install one of those cages around the letter box to catch the mail. I think the main poiint is that the injury was very preventable.
Cars cause a lot more injury & deaths than dogs, pollution etc, ::)
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Should i report this attack???
Well i just have reported this to police
Dave
I'm sorry you were bitten by the dog.
But as the dog thought he was protecting his property whats he done wrong, ???.
I dont think it will be long before everything is banned in this country the way all this pink fluffy stuff is going.
I was bitten in the face about 8 years ago, 12 stitches on the eye brow & i nearly lost my left eye. The hospital wanted to notify the police but i said no because i was on his property.
I was more angry with the womens attitude and was told by the niebours that she keeps this dog locked in a cage.
Also it concerns me if this happens to a child.
If this dog bitten a child for walking onto its property and all that do. Well i dont think this is right.
Dave
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...and was told by the niebours that she keeps this dog locked in a cage.
Dave
Dave,
I used to think this was cruel, but apparantly it's not. When you leave a dog alone, it feels abandoned by its 'pack'; therefore it thinks its open to attack by other animals. So by putting it in a cage can make it feel safe and secure.
I've also been bitten by a dog through a letter box and it hurt like hell and made me bleed.
But what can you do?
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I HAD A RUNNING with two dogs through a letter box ,but didnt know which dog it was.
Soon the house came up for sale revenge, knocked on the door no one in ,
great, in went a block of choclate [laxative] yes u b,,,,,ds got u ;D
gaza
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No, friend of mines dog 5 years or so ago died after eating a selection box of chocolates left on a table.
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WOW! HONEST DIDNT WANT TO HARM THEM :o
mind you cures the vet bills ;)
gaza
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Dogs are just like Kids. They behave according to the way they have been brought up.
My dog (collie cross) comes to work with me every day and when i get out the van to do a job she gets out too and comes with me. Obviously there are houses where she can't get out because the owners have there own dogs that don't appreciate visitors.
i even have customers where my dog goes into there house to say hello while i'm cleaning there windows and most people look for her because she is always with me.
It doesn't matter what kind of dog you have, if you treat it properly it will behave properly.
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It doesn't matter what kind of dog you have, if you treat it properly it will behave properly.
Well said!
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if u hav a letter box u are inviting people to freely post through it so u hav a duty to protect people if u hav a dog that might bite thier fingers if u dont the letter box should be sealed, if i got bit on someones property i would sue the owner u cant just say its protecting the property thats crap
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Thanks for all the comments.
I will be very careful next time by making longer leaflets....and try not to enter my fingers in the box...
Dave
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Hi All,
Just thought I’d share my tip on posting leaflets.
Now I know this thread is about dog hazards but to my mind the majority of letter boxes are a pain when trying to post a leaflet. Either the sharp edges or the internal brushes make difficult to get one through without catching the fingers at some point.
Now this is the method I have used and to date its been successful for me as I am in the process of delivering 10K’s worth of my own and still have all me fingers intact!
First you will need to find a push stick – I use a flat wooded spatula as found in the kitchen drawer at home or can be bought for a pound or so at a kitchen shop. I was going to cut one out of a thin bit of MDF or ply but found this worked well enough so didn’t bother in the end.
The technique – I lift the flap of the letter box and hold open whilst positioning a leaflet in front of the hole so that the middle of the leaflet aligns with the centre of the slot with one hand. With the push stick in the other hand, I then push at the middle of the leaflet and it goes through the slot folding over the end of the flat blade. When it has been pushed through far enough, past the brushes or inner flap, withdraw the stick and you will find the leaflet stays on the other side dropping to the floor.
Benefits are the leaflets go right through so on one can complain about them sticking out all day whilst out at work, no cuts from sharp edges within, no more folding up at the brush strips and of course no bites to the fingers!
Hope this is understandable as it’s easier than it sounds and is a quick way to post with once you have done a couple and got your technique right.
Steve. 8)
Disclaimer - I share this information to the brotherhood of window cleaners however you are not to pass this tip on to others outside of the brotherhood and are responsible for practising this technique safety as it does not guard against dogs roaming freely. ;D
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Hi All,
Just thought I’d share my tip on posting leaflets.
Now I know this thread is about dog hazards but to my mind the majority of letter boxes are a pain when trying to post a leaflet. Either the sharp edges or the internal brushes make difficult to get one through without catching the fingers at some point.
Now this is the method I have used and to date its been successful for me as I am in the process of delivering 10K’s worth of my own and still have all me fingers intact!
First you will need to find a push stick – I use a flat wooded spatula as found in the kitchen drawer at home or can be bought for a pound or so at a kitchen shop. I was going to cut one out of a thin bit of MDF or ply but found this worked well enough so didn’t bother in the end.
The technique – I lift the flap of the letter box and hold open whilst positioning a leaflet in front of the hole so that the middle of the leaflet aligns with the centre of the slot with one hand. With the push stick in the other hand, I then push at the middle of the leaflet and it goes through the slot folding over the end of the flat blade. When it has been pushed through far enough, past the brushes or inner flap, withdraw the stick and you will find the leaflet stays on the other side dropping to the floor.
Benefits are the leaflets go right through so on one can complain about them sticking out all day whilst out at work, no cuts from sharp edges within, no more folding up at the brush strips and of course no bites to the fingers!
Hope this is understandable as it’s easier than it sounds and is a quick way to post with once you have done a couple and got your technique right.
Steve. 8)
Disclaimer - I share this information to the brotherhood of window cleaners however you are not to pass this tip on to others outside of the brotherhood and are responsible for practising this technique safety as it does not guard against dogs roaming freely. ;D
The way this country is going, this will probably end up in an Act of Parliament within H & S legislation.
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any dog that bites a person should be put down if it bites once it will do it again and the owner should be fined and sued
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any dog that bites a person should be put down if it bites once it will do it again and the owner should be fined and sued
Totally agree with you. Yes I think the owner should be fine but only sued if there is severe damage to you and prevents you from living a normal life.
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even if i just had 6 stiches in my hand i would want paying
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even if i just had 6 stiches in my hand i would want paying
Depends on the circomstances, if you put your hand into my van to stroke him & you got bitten, TOUGH.
If you came on my property & got bitten, TOUGH.
If you walked over & just started stroking my dog, TOUGH.
Would you just put your hand in a tank if it had a snake in it, ???, so why push your fingers through a letter box or go on his patch & if he protects it you should get money. ::)
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PJ.
The way i read it was, give the dog chocolate it will kill them, it dont take much.
Maybe i misread your post, if i did i'm very sorry, honest.
If someone tryed to harm one of my dogs & kill one or both, i hope for there sake i never get hold of them. I'm not going to say oh well, never mind.
Saying that, if one of my dogs did bite for no reason i would have the dog put down. Not if they came in my house, garden or put their hand through the letter box, not that i have one anyway, its called using commen sence, something some obviously dont have.
Macc
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Macc,
I know where you're comming from. If someone tried to hurt my little dog, I'd want to teach them the error of their ways too; you can't trust our naff legal system; can you?
Our pets are an integeral part of our family.
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Hi All
Look all i say when posting leaflets is to take extra care...As for Macc who loves is dogs well good on you.
Can i ask macc this question
If this was your dog that bitten my fingers through letter box, would you have been shocked or are your dogs trained not to do this??
Lets say it did happen how would u treat the victim??
I ask this because the women just laughed at what happened which i felt was wrong.
I am also a dog owner and would never even think of hurting this dog or take these comments or jokes about the choclate.
Dave
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Hi Dave.
This is how long is a piece of string.
When i changed the front door i didnt put a letter box in. To be honest with you i have had a letter box on the outside wall for over 10 years now, because for the last 5 years ive not had a letter box in the front door & privious to that i sealed it so this did not happen.
How would i treat the victim? I would be concerned but then as a responsible Rott owner i dont have a letter box. I could see a potential problem & sorted it.
A responsible dog owner no matter what breed of dog, Rotts down to these little dogs that i call Rats, need to look & see what can be a problem & take some sort of action so things can be prevented if possible.
At the end of the day if i can take steps so the public are safer from my dogs, anyone can.
Macc
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it does happen to me 2 mounths ago. i told my custemer she said to me her dog never done ot before i said (done it now) after then i stop doing her windows my health is more imported then her windows .
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Macc that is a good answer to my question.
It was the owners attitude that shocked me more.
I am not a dog hater and will always ask customers first if their dogs are ok for me to be near them
I just thought laughing from this lady was not acceptable.
Dave
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even if i just had 6 stiches in my hand i would want paying
Depends on the circomstances, if you put your hand into my van to stroke him & you got bitten, TOUGH.
If you came on my property & got bitten, TOUGH.
If you walked over & just started stroking my dog, TOUGH.
Would you just put your hand in a tank if it had a snake in it, ???, so why push your fingers through a letter box or go on his patch & if he protects it you should get money. ::)
sorry mac but u are so wrong your dogs should not in anycase bite anyone full stop no tough about it ::)
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It has to depend upon the circumstances, to say that any dog that bites a human will do it again and should therefore be put down is blinkered and shortsighted and shows very little knowledge of dogs.
If you step on a dogs foot, or its tail for instance, and you are a stranger to that animal there is a more than strong chance it will react strongly and possibly unpredictably.
It may well snap at you, but even if it does, in almost all cases the bite it might give you won't be a savage mauling.
All dogs have a bite reflex and most bites trigger this reflex.
The bite isn't a full power one, it's a warning one, the odds are it won't even break the skin.
If you get bitten by a dog that has not learned the bite reflex it'll have you down to the bone, even a little jack russell.
My dad had a golden retriever, she was as soft mouthed a dog as you could ever meet and would greet everyone by grabbing their hand in her mouth and 'walk' them into the house.
Technichally you could well call this a bite and if you ripped your hand out of her mouth you'd probably hurt yourself.
Their are some that would now bleat, "I want some compo! that dog bit me and I want it put down."
I know who I'd rather see put down >:(
A dog sees some little fingers waggling through the letterbox, wrong though it is it sees them as something to play with, or letters as something to tear apart.
It doesn't make the dog a viscious beast, quite apart from which, as any postman will tell you - and as I said earlier - if your hand goes through the letterbox technically you are breaking and entering.
Therre are even rules about the how and the where of how postmen are supposed to deliver letters and gain access to your property.
If a dog is injured, or has come back from the vets after an operation, if disturbed or frightened it is likely to bite.
If a dog is blind or deaf and is surprised it is likely to do the same thing.
It is not a black and white issue, not all bites are because of some viscious, unpredictable and dangerous dog.
My own dog will have your hand off if you put your hand though a part open window in the summer when he is in the van, ditto if you were a thief and tried to nick my van while he is in there, but I sure as hell wouldn't have him put down if he bit someone in this context.
time is getting on!
Work beckons!!
Ian
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I have a very large dog, cross alsatian/akita. He weighs in at 8 stone and is VERY protective of our house.
I also have notices on both my back gate and front gate explaining I have a dog who may be running free and to use the bell to get attention and not to enter. Our tel number is also on the bottom of the notice so they can call me if I don't answer.
Yet even still, I get people who ignore these notices and enter my property. This scares the hell out of me as I know my dog will bite them if he is roaming around. I now go one step further and lock the back gate and secure the front gate just to protect someone who refuses to respect my request and wants to enter my premises uninvited??????????
A final note:
I discussed my dogs behaviour with a dog trainer and he pointed out this:
People wonder why a dog snaps at them when they go to say hello?? The reason is this!!
1) you look at the dog (eye contact and staring is the 1st stage of threatening)
2) you smile ( dogs perception is now you are growling at him)
3) You put your hand out to stroke him ( dog thinks, your going to hit me now)
result - warning snap by dog asking you to leave me alone. I will come to you if I want to say hello otherwise leave me alone!!
I have read some of the postings on here about harming a dog who would bite your fingers if put through your door?? Sad, very very sad!! If a burglar put his arm through your window and you hit it with an iron bar, broke his arm, you would be sued and in trouble for assault. Yet in the papers it would be condemmed that a man cannot protect his property and that the burglar got all he deserved!! So whats the difference when someone sticks thier fingers through a letter box and the dogs protects his home????
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I asked a local Policeman as my dog nipped a teenage lad hand one day whilst in my front garden.
The lad was teasing the dog infront of his mates whilst hanging over the wall and thought it was funny.
The Policeman told me that because the lad was leaning over the wall it was classed as trespassing and nothing could be done if the lad wanted to sue.
He told me that if someone climbed over the wall into the garden and was bitten by my dog nothing could be done.
He also said that if someone walked down my front path and was bitten then yes i could be sued.
The reason for this is beacuse the front path leading to your front door is classed as a public right of way, climbing over the wall isn't.
He also said that if someone put their hand through the letter box and was bitten, nothing could be done as silly at it sounds is classed as breaking and entering.
I am putting a fence on top of the wall now to stop these idiots teasing the dog plus have put a letter box on the wall and sealed the door one up.
I've been bitten loads of times by dogs, but don't blame them. They are only protecting their home.
My dog goes mad if someone comes near my van especially if my kids are in it.
He's only protecting the kids.
He's part of our pack and glad to have him.
A final note:
I discussed my dogs behaviour with a dog trainer and he pointed out this:
People wonder why a dog snaps at them when they go to say hello?? The reason is this!!
1) you look at the dog (eye contact and staring is the 1st stage of threatening)
2) you smile ( dogs perception is now you are growling at him)
3) You put your hand out to stroke him ( dog thinks, your going to hit me now)
result - warning snap by dog asking you to leave me alone. I will come to you if I want to say hello otherwise leave me alone!!
I have read some of the postings on here about harming a dog who would bite your fingers if put through your door?? Sad, very very sad!! If a burglar put his arm through your window and you hit it with an iron bar, broke his arm, you would be sued and in trouble for assault. Yet in the papers it would be condemmed that a man cannot protect his property and that the burglar got all he deserved!! So whats the difference when someone sticks thier fingers through a letter box and the dogs protects his home????
I agree with what Trevor posted.
I have a sign on the front gate, but people still ignore it.
The back gate is always bolted so i'm not worried about that. If they go over the fence it's their look out.
Craig
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I have a very large dog, cross alsatian/akita. He weighs in at 8 stone and is VERY protective of our house.
I also have notices on both my back gate and front gate explaining I have a dog who may be running free and to use the bell to get attention and not to enter. Our tel number is also on the bottom of the notice so they can call me if I don't answer.
Yet even still, I get people who ignore these notices and enter my property. This scares the hell out of me as I know my dog will bite them if he is roaming around. I now go one step further and lock the back gate and secure the front gate just to protect someone who refuses to respect my request and wants to enter my premises uninvited??????????
A final note:
I discussed my dogs behaviour with a dog trainer and he pointed out this:
People wonder why a dog snaps at them when they go to say hello?? The reason is this!!
1) you look at the dog (eye contact and staring is the 1st stage of threatening)
2) you smile ( dogs perception is now you are growling at him)
3) You put your hand out to stroke him ( dog thinks, your going to hit me now)
result - warning snap by dog asking you to leave me alone. I will come to you if I want to say hello otherwise leave me alone!!
I have read some of the postings on here about harming a dog who would bite your fingers if put through your door?? Sad, very very sad!! If a burglar put his arm through your window and you hit it with an iron bar, broke his arm, you would be sued and in trouble for assault. Yet in the papers it would be condemmed that a man cannot protect his property and that the burglar got all he deserved!! So whats the difference when someone sticks thier fingers through a letter box and the dogs protects his home????
Trevor. I feel that there is a big difference with climbing through a window vs. fingers through the letterbox. Firstly, as a human being, you can make a more reasonable guess than a dog as to what is breaking and entering and what is someone delivering the post. Secondly, if someone has a dog who goes for posties fingers, it's possible to either put a cage around the letterbox or, as some have said, to seal the box and have a wall mounted one. Even though I might be legally entitled to claim the dog was making a reasonable defence of the front door, I still wouldn't want someone to end up injured for no worse a thing than putting a letter or a leaflet through my letterbox. However, I would have no problem with thumping a burglar if I felt threatened.
I think the legal term is "reasonable" force. A dog is less likely to understand what is reasonable IMO.
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Trevor. I feel that there is a big difference with climbing through a window vs. fingers through the letterbox. Firstly, as a human being, you can make a more reasonable guess than a dog as to what is breaking and entering and what is someone delivering the post. Secondly, if someone has a dog who goes for posties fingers, it's possible to either put a cage around the letterbox or, as some have said, to seal the box and have a wall mounted one. Even though I might be legally entitled to claim the dog was making a reasonable defence of the front door, I still wouldn't want someone to end up injured for no worse a thing than putting a letter or a leaflet through my letterbox. However, I would have no problem with thumping a burglar if I felt threatened.
I think the legal term is "reasonable" force. A dog is less likely to understand what is reasonable IMO.
Totally agree that a dog can't understand the difference, hence my posting, in the dog's eyes you are attempting to enter his domain?
I agree methods can be implemented to help with fingers in letterboxes but my main reason for the quote was the regarding the reference to harming an animal for his actions? Thats what I believe to be a sad reflection on what is natural to the animal.
On another note, if you are delivering a leaflet and putting it through someones letterbox without their permission or request for such information isn't a dog snapping at a letter box par for the course?? Lets face it, isn't this method construed as junk mail??
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Trevor. I feel that there is a big difference with climbing through a window vs. fingers through the letterbox. Firstly, as a human being, you can make a more reasonable guess than a dog as to what is breaking and entering and what is someone delivering the post. Secondly, if someone has a dog who goes for posties fingers, it's possible to either put a cage around the letterbox or, as some have said, to seal the box and have a wall mounted one. Even though I might be legally entitled to claim the dog was making a reasonable defence of the front door, I still wouldn't want someone to end up injured for no worse a thing than putting a letter or a leaflet through my letterbox. However, I would have no problem with thumping a burglar if I felt threatened.
I think the legal term is "reasonable" force. A dog is less likely to understand what is reasonable IMO.
Totally agree that a dog can't understand the difference, hence my posting, in the dog's eyes you are attempting to enter his domain?
I agree methods can be implemented to help with fingers in letterboxes but my main reason for the quote was the regarding the reference to harming an animal for his actions? Thats what I believe to be a sad reflection on what is natural to the animal.
On another note, if you are delivering a leaflet and putting it through someones letterbox without their permission or request for such information isn't a dog snapping at a letter box par for the course?? Lets face it, isn't this method construed as junk mail??
Sure thing. I don't advocate harming a dog either - unless it is totally necessary for self protection.
As for the junk mail bit, surely junk mail and ordinary post are delivered through the same method? Whatever the view of junk mail, delivering it isn't punishable by assault. Several years ago, I was too sick to clean windows for a few months. Even on the days when I had some energy, I was too light headed to climb ladders (I was trad then). To help me get some sort of income, I got a self-employed leaflet delivery job and I had a few near misses - including dogs grabbing leaflets from my hand through letter boxes. I even saw one letter box with a dog warning on it with a picture of a finger in plaster :) . All somebody has to do is to have a no leaflets or no junkmail sign on their letter box. I can't speak for others but I won't push a leaflet through a box where it is stated not to.
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Hi All
Look all i say when posting leaflets is to take extra care...As for Macc who loves is dogs well good on you.
Can i ask macc this question
If this was your dog that bitten my fingers through letter box, would you have been shocked or are your dogs trained not to do this??
Lets say it did happen how would u treat the victim??
I ask this because the women just laughed at what happened which i felt was wrong.
I am also a dog owner and would never even think of hurting this dog or take these comments or jokes about the choclate.
Dave
I agree with you Dave care should be taken when posting leaflets, I am a new window cleaner and have very limited work, so I am posting leaflets. I posted a leaflet today and below the letter box was a cat flap, where the dog pushed his head out and tried to bite my leg, he was fast, but I was faster. Ha-ha-ha.
Peter.
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Was posting more leaflets to day.
I get nervous when lifting the letter box up and try and push it sucure in...
It must take me 3 times longer than before....lol
Dave