Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pat Purcell on January 21, 2007, 09:05:24 pm
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I see that a lot of you are having problems with motivation. None of you realize nothing has to do with feeling good. If you want to feel better, grow your business. That is everybody's drag on here.
You need motivation? look in your bank account! Try stopping what you are doing right now and tell me where you will be in exactly 1 year. I hope everyone does not say "the greatest window cleaner ever". Take a look at your kids, want them in college? or are you crazy enough to say " they will grow to be window cleaners just like dad" are you kidding me? You want them to be out doing this mindless crap, that is as high as you dream?
Once you start a business you better not be a window cleaner first. A window cleaner can't sell, can't manage and will drone on until financial death forces them into a job.
Did you start your business to not have a boss? Well you now have a boss who knows absolutely nothing about business. Yet everyone is surprised they are having problems.
Do you guys think joining a window cleaning association will help? Reading a long great positive post on a window cleaning forum? Then what? Did you get your @ss off the computer and plan your business move. How are you going to remove yourself from a worker bee to the queen? What's your time frame? How much can you spend a month on marketing? Will you commit to that every month? Of course not. Everyone wants it for free and do as little as they can to get it at that price.
I have had sooo many run ins with the long time guys on here that hate it when I post ways to become successful now. 400,000 new businesses fail every year in the US, think the window cleaners are holding their own? Most companies in our field absolutely suck at business.
You guys like to poke fun at crappy Fish, right? Fish has managed to become a multi-million dollar company because Mike Merrick has a BS in Business Administration...he is not and never was a window cleaner. Sure they have a bad rep throughout the US with us, but how about with the consumers? Their business will grow more this month than most of you in your lifetime. He could dissolve Fish tomorrow and start over and be there quicker and better the 2nd time.
Am I trying to bum you out, hell no! I want you to see the big picture. There are companies on this forum that have been around forever and they still do the work and have only a couple guys helping. Is that a problem from a business perspective...it is horrible. I know, I know..there is this bullnuts about staying small and enjoying the feel of the glass, sure.
Nobody markets well in the industry, they all suck It is soo amazing to see this much opportunity to grow, yet everyone is jumping over the dollars to get to the dimes, then the say some bs about ethics, and don't be greedy, don't grow too fast. Don't grow too fast!? are you kidding me? who on here is growing too fast? 0
Why is it the flyer posts are soo popular, they are cheap and easy. We tend to run our businesses cheap and easy, don't we? When do we stop doing that and start to play the grown up game of business?
People a;ways ask me to help them with their flyers, I say sure- let me see it. They send me a total piece of crap that I spend my way to valuable time re-doing and I never hear from them again. They have a perception about their company that the consumer does not have. They write their ads trying to force a perception, that goes in the trash. They do not care at all about this comapny you love and have passion for. Don't approach them with what you have...tell them what they get. (that is million dollar advice none of you will use)
I study marketing ALL THE TIME, I love it , it is a total passion. I have 40 cds in my car on marketing and dozens of books, a few courses. I know marketing far better than anyone on here ever will. As I should, I study it all the time. I don't stop there, then I apply what I have learned and adjust to suit my needs.
Our old pal Paneless once told me, "you are in a way different place than anyone on here, you think out of the box" I got out of the box and sold it for 50% more than I paid for it.
I am a great marketer, but suck at accounting, PNL, forecasting, basically management. So I smartly seek out people who are great at this, together I will dominate this area and branch all over. Unlike Fish, I know where they screwed up...and I am not telling, so don't ask.
People love to come on here with some goofy lie stories. They will talk about homeowner association newsletters getting them $4k a month with only a $100 investment, I am sorry, the numbers do not make sense. But everyone jumped when I called this person out, I was ruining their dream of easy money. The guy that posted that turd, gone.
I have seen a lot of other bs "positive" stories that I say nothing about. I love it when people give numbers, because I grab my calculator and go to work. The numbers are not matching what they are saying so, they are lying. Why do we feel like bullnutsting each other.
Shame, we are ashamed we have really not done much. Buy books and learn business, not window cleaning. I guarantee you will not have time to sit around kicking the can.
Chew on that
For those of you that don't want to grow, ignore this post. Don't get mad because it is not aimed at you. If you are happy where you are that's great
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Just for the record this was not penned by me
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What an a** >:(
I'm not in the business of window cleaning to make a million! Would be nice though.
I chose to start on my own as I want freedom.
I want to work on my own and not be tied down to a 9-5 job.
If I expand well thats great. :D
Why do we have to be in business to be the wealthiest company out there?
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Just for the record this was not penned by me
Me either ;) ;) ::) ::)
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My gut feeling is it is mostly wrong.
I do not know at all what it is like in the good ol USA. Over here, I am new of course, but it does seem you can grow it as big as you wish. It is just their is a certain point where it obviously becomes not just a part time job, or a full time job, but your life.
I want window cleaning to be my full time job, I am happy that it infects some of my social life on this forum as the forum educates and amuses me and makes me feel a part of something in the same way a factory worker gets that "one of the lads" feeling. However, as for a life that involves just sleeping and working you can stuff that right where the sun don't shine.
Wheres my coat? I am off to the pub! (actually I can not go out but have a bottle of wine in the fridge)
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I'm in WCing because it makes me a goog living. I work when i want to work & not when i'm told to.
I'm at home a lot more than my neigbours & make more than them.
I will never be minted but i bet i'm a lot happier than most, i enjoy my work, i start when i want & go home when i want.
My bills get paid, I'M HAPPY AS I AM.
Macc
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I'm always reminded about the guy on his deathbed who, when he was asked about things he regretted not doing during his life said "I wish I'd built my business bigger".
Ok I realise that you can enjoy leisure pursuits more if you've got everyone else doing the graft for you but I don't have enough trust to relinquish that much control anyway. But how would I spend that leisure time. Travel seems fine but I would still have to take my head with me anyway Bulls******g on the golf course isn't my style either.
I would probably still do a little (not much) manual work even if I became a lottery millionaire. I guess I must be a bit of a Philistine :) .
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I quite enjoyed the original post. There's always something compelling when you read a peice of work, that someone has written in anger (or in some emotional frame of mind).
I thought it was a good read and gave me some food for thought.
However, I'm with Macc on this one. I'm happy to be my own boss, have some cash in the bank and the bills paid.
I became a window cleaner, not to become rich (if that's possible for the vast majority of us mere mortals), but to lead a stress-free(ish) existance.
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I missed the origianl post so I maybe am missing a point somewhere but going by the above (at the top of the page) I think who ever wrote it is writing muddled trollop.
To me it lacks that something that links the person who wrote it to the subject they are writing about. I don't get the feeling of 'realism' about the author.
As for the content.... I don't really get the point being made?
I also agree with Tosh and Macc.
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Seems like an ok post to me, he states at the end it isnt aimed at the people that are happy to stay small etc, His advise seems good if not rather obvious to anyone who has been around self employment for more than a 2 mins.
He seems very confident about his abilities and seems ready to take the whole of the US on and become a ruthless millionare.........be interesting to see him get bigger and better than Fish............or fall flat on his face trying.
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I think its a load of rubbish. From start to finish. I have seen this sort of motivational bull before and it sounds right when you read it but sixty seconds later you can't remember a word of it.
I say if you are happy with things the way they are then be happy. You don't need some nonce telling you otherwise.
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Interesting post, very typically American (not dissing you guys over the pond by that) but window cleaning over there is very different to window cleaning over here...especially in the residential area...
Few are able or capable of truly progressing their businesses to stratospheric levels, those that can usually do so, regardless of the field they work in.
Most of us could well benefit from marketing and business courses, I would agree that many of us do not truly understand 'business'.
How many times do we here "I can earn £30 an hour cleaning windows!" (or more) as the poster says, break the figures down properly and just how many of them are on £62,400 a year?
How many truly knock out the well in excess of the 200 quid per day they'd need to earn that kind of money?
How many look at the money in their pocket at the end of the day and think that is their wage for the day? Or the money they have at the end of a-n-other week and think that represents what they are earning?
Marketing is also a very specialised area too, but most of us are content to either print out some leaflets and knock on a few doors.
If you grow then you have to employ, one man can only do so much work in a day.
How many on here employ more than one person?
There are some of course, and there are plenty of partnerships, but the vast majority of us are one man bands.
With a little education we can all improve what we do, become that little bit more efficient, that little bit more profitable.
Our unknown American poster seems to sneer his distain at those of us who are content to bumble along, he is obviously a marketing zealot who is also somewhat blinkered to reality.
He might do better to lower his sights a tad and try and help others improve their businesses, but not to millionaire status, but just for them to be able to maximize what they do have and open their eyes to how a business works (not just window cleaning).
Though by the sound of him he would probably run vast seminars (only $50 for a 2 hour seminar!!) leaving people walking out the door brimming with confidance!....only to go back to their old ways within days :-\
I understand what he's saying...but I don't really give a stuff, I'm still striving to improve my work, to become more efficient and so on, but I know my own limitations and weaknesses as well as my strengths...I think!!
In fact being on this forum has opened my eyes and has increased my awareness of what is possible, I've been in business for 29 years and I'm still learning ;)
Ian
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Sorry but to me it still read all motivation and hype without the 'how to' and without substance.
How does this sound:
Most of you on this forum just don't understand what it takes to get on. That's ok if you just want a few dollars and the enjoyement of what you do but think about what you really want.
All you have to do is study how business works, study marketing and plan big because without planning big, you'll never get there. You need to eat, sleep and breathe success every waking moment of your day.
Always see the bigger picture and study, study, study and never take you eye off the goal. Success is simply application and modeling those who have achieved. There are thousands of books out there...........
And so on.........
It don't take much to write something with out giving real advice. What is lacking is substance and to me, believability. Also, why post it on a forum? I don't read about other big shots posting on forums?
And to me it makes no difference where the person lives who posted it, it's the posting itself.
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You can only motivate someone that wants it, most people will of read the first paragraph and thought ok here we go again big, big, big and then went off and read another thread.
Marketing is very important while developing your business, once your rolling and your happy with the work you have it becomes secondary, I dont see the point in being a marketing god if your only looking to get enough work to keep you busy.
I also think you may fall victim of running before you can walk if your marketing was too good, imagine when you first started learning the ropes of cleaning and your phone never stopped ringing, sounds nice at first but would soon be a major pain, and taking on too much has sunk many companies.
One of the best pieces of advise i have heard on these forums is to develope your round and then refine it over the years to the best paying, easiest and loyal customer base. After a few years of this you should have a VERY good living and a round people would kill for.
Dave
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One of the best pieces of advise i have heard on these forums is to develope your round and then refine it over the years to the best paying, easiest and loyal customer base. After a few years of this you should have a VERY good living and a round people would kill for.
For most window cleaners I think that's it in a nutshell.
As for marketing and all that, I also agree. It's fine if you have the resourses and time and organisational abilities. If you don't, then all the marketing in the world means nothing.
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I study marketing ALL THE TIME, I love it , it is a total passion. I have 40 cds in my car on marketing and dozens of books, a few courses. I know marketing far better than anyone on here ever will. As I should, I study it all the time. I don't stop there, then I apply what I have learned and adjust to suit my needs.
This is where it fell down for me. 40 CDs? What an idiot. The guy is a dreaming type of person not a doing type of person. He thinks that buy listening to CD after CD, reading book after book, he is going to learn something about sales. Maybe he has,
Start CD 1. A sucker is born every minute, end of CD 1.
Start of CD2.
Look we all know that marketing is all about being "first in mind". If we want a washing machine we tend to go to comet because they keep showing us washing machines on TV and flyers. If we want a cola we tend to ask for a coke because we are constantly shown cola and the word coke.
First in mind in window cleaning (domestic at least) is all about being seen cleaning windows or getting recommended or at the very least canvassing.
You can canvass, anyone can canvass, you just do it when most people are in and eventually the law of percentages swings in your favour and you get a cluster. You can appeal for recommendations, either offering a discount for getting them or just asking outright if a customer would mind recommending you as you need more work. The only real way to get seen cleaning windows is by getting customers in the first place but it is worth noting that clusters will mean you have more chance of being seen by the customers you want (same street).
It is not rocket science. Get out and canvass, appeal for recommendations and clean windows. It certainly should not take 40 CDs and a few dozen books to work it out.
End of CD 2.
Start of CD 3. What are you doing? You should be cleaning windows or canvassing or asking people to recommend you. End of CD 3
Start of CD 4. You just don't get it do you? Your wasting your time listening to a CD, go out and find work!. End of CD 4.
Start of CD 5. Oh sod this, lets put some Kylie on maybe that will wake you up, the following 35 CDs will be me going on about how you can zap some life into your butt if you insist, it will do you no good, you just need to go out and do it, but if your paying... End of CD 5. and I give up!!!
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Alot comes down to the scale of your marketing, i started a company ( not window cleaning ) a few years ago, spent 13k on ads in yellow pages to start it off and boy did it start it off, after 6 months increased the spend to 20k, second year started with a 40k ad budget, turnover was heading for silly money.
We were only able to fulfil 50% of the work that was comming in at busy times but we needed that level of ads to keep us busy in the quiet times. Hurts like hell turning it down but when your at full stretch but thats all you can do.
I was no marketing guru, i had never read a marketing book in my life, i knew what the customers were looking for and offered the service in the way that wanted it.
As a side note price never came into it, we charged twice the rate of other local guys, our motto was do half the volume for twice the price.
Dave
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Karl,
IMPRESSIVE !!!!!!
;D
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I agree with all of you more or less, and it's easy enough to pick holes in his diatribe, his motavational CD's I'm sure cover more than window cleaning! lol, but I enjoyed Karls swipe at him ;D
But that doesn't mean he hasn't got a point in his general thrust (even though I think he's blinkered)
Marketing isn't the simple thing you think it is, get out, knock on doors, law of averages etc etc...
You can just plod away in that manner and you will certainly get there, but if you should wish to grow to any kind of size then your marketing needs to become more effective than just knocking on someones and asking, "Do you want a window cleaner missus?
But of course, as Dave says, if you are too good at your marketing you will end out running before you can walk.
You need to learn your trade first...whatever that trade may be.
With window cleaning it is a job that most people can turn their hands to, and it is simple enough to learn it as you go along, it's particularly suited to knocking on a few doors and slowly gathering more and more jobs, by the time you've picked up enough work to keep you busy 4 or 5 days a week you will be a reasonable accomplished window cleaner.
A window cleaning newbie for instance may well buy an established round, but for 3 or 4 months he'll be like a fish out of water, no way on earth will he get his round done on time, he'll fall way behind, he'll lose accounts...he'll really struggle for a while.
Perhaps our newbie builds his round from scratch and he is marketing genius, but unless he knows the trade inside out he'll come undone if he grows too fast.
So our trade is full of people who are mostly content to be in charge of their own lives, who earn enough to get by on and all of us know that if we put that little bit more effort in we could a whole lot more...if we really wanted to that is...
As a rule it isn't a trade that is going to attract the type of go-getters that want to earn mega bucks and build dynasties!
So our American poster's motavational diatribe is going to fall on deaf ears...mostly ;)
Ian
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What forum was this on? I'd be interested to read the responses on that forum too.
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We don't know who these Fish people are. I assume they're the coco cola of window cleaning, and an American institution. Except that from his remarks they are also resented and much critisized.
I go along along with what you all say. Carl was being sarcastic, but I found his post instructional. As for reading books, wouldn't it be helpfull for some people to do a bookkeeping course at least.
When people post about lifestyle and working three days a week, and the zen aspects of the job, I find this bigger bull than what the yank is being accussed of. Zen? I always think of the Karate Kid, shine on, shine off!
What made the Yank a hippocite though, was that he was extoling the virtues of the perfect business he could biuld, and yet also saying that he didn't want his children to do any of this mindless crap (his words).
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Fish window cleaning are a franchise based on low price high output
It works for them but has served to keep prices down since they came into existance
Powerclene, the forum I think is the national window cleaners directory not sure as the post was e-mailed to me
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I window clean to earn a wage to live comfortably after paying for all my bills, NOT marketing, sleeping, working, marketing, sleeping, working. That chap who started this topic shouldn't preach MARKETING to us because: 1. It bores the pants off us Brits and 2. us UK window cleaners have a social life outside of work!!!!
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Thought you guys would like to know that I have taken a lot of accounts away from "Fish". Their prices are the same as mine and their reputation is not what you might think. :o
As in all businesses, once you get to be a certain size you lose control over the grass roots unless you have great managers.
And to have great managers you have to pay them pretty well. And to pay them well everything has to be going pretty smooth.
As we all know, this business is unique in service and you have to be involved to be successful.
Just thought you might like to know from one across the pond that competes with the "Fish".
Love you guys and what you(we) stand for.
Texas Girl :-*
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I heard this post was causing a stink across the world, I had to see it to believe it.
I wrote it...and it was just some thoughts. It was not about money, it was about business and running a business mindset.
As Americans tend to do, we easily offend. Sorry about that. The real offending took place in the reply war we had. Somehow more people liked it rather than hated it, a first for me ;D
I hope you all "across the pond" are having a great day and it was nice to visit your forum. Looks like a very interesting community.
Success!
p.s this post is out of context to what has been happening on our forum, so it even sounds worse. We have a lot of people with motivational problems, so I thought I would motivate them, it worked...too well. :o
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originally posted on
www.nationalwindowcleaningdirectory.com
cheers!
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Sorry for calling you a yank csp, but you didn't have a name. We disscused what you said and the poll vote suggests you had some points that we could learn from. I would like to ask:
Have you been a window cleaner long? Have your methods lead to success?Show us a leaflet (Flyer)?
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No offense taken, if you want to learn to be more offensive, I could tutor you :P
I have been doing windows for almost 12 years, started my business a little over 4 years ago and started running a business very recently. I spent 3 of those years floating in the abyss.
My post was meant to shake people up, not to make them like me. Believe in the post or not, people are thinking....thinking I am a dink, but thinking ;D
I love the accents on here! You betcha I do
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Welcome to the forum, I think you will find this forum very similar, i look forward to reading your posts.
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Thank you...however, I probably will not post much. I may have my visa yanked ;D
This forum gets A LOT more traffic than ours. It is nice to see its so lively.
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Go on show us a flyer?
Something outrageous.
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I think a few good points were made in the original post.
One of the problems is, we all have to realise that sales and marketing are not the same thing and thats not being patronising its just a fact that selling your service is not the same as marketing it!
Take MacDonalds, they market the name, the experience, the need for the product - then once in the building they sell you the product.
As the famous saying goes - dont sell the sausage, sell the sizzle!
:)
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Nice point John, however there is not one without the other. Even a roadside vegetable stand advertises "fresh corn" "fresh strawberries"... a lure.
They are twins, one male, one female. Not identical, but close.
Sales is nothing if someone is not asking for it, and if we can't make the sale all the advertising in the world will not help.
That is the point of my post, that this is where most of our industry's people are having problems....both making the sale and getting the sale.
Both are a must
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Okay. Lets see what you can do. Assume I have a smart van and all the equipment. I want to sell the experience. So on the side of my van I have a great graphic and the words - Mr Tickle Window Cleaning.
Now what? How should I proceed? What's so different about your approach?
Have I misunderstood?
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Mr Tickle window cleaning is your name. Do you have "FREE Quotes" anywhere on there? If I am going along and see your van and I need window cleaning, I had better see something I can instantly grasp.
We all get a little wrapped up in our names and forget to give any incentive for the prospect to call. Huge name, small number and maybe a silly graphic is what I see mostly.
Instead of the name I would have put
Want Clean Windows?
FREE Quote
Call 333-334-4343 today!
Not a bunch of "been in business since 1985", or some stupid slogan. Most people will have only a moment to read your ad. They see an average of 2500 ads per day, they will not remember our name and at very best, they will now enter a book full of window cleaners to get quotes. All because we reminded them they needed to be done.
but wait....what do I care? Do whatever feels right.
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Curious
Make a list of all the things a customer requires from a window cleaner - in no particular order - window cleaning, regular and reliable, domestic and commercial, windows and frames cleaned, free quotes, conservatory cleans, gutter and facia cleaning, fully insured etc etc then tailor your van signage to suit the business and your area.
Emphasise the services not necessarily yourself, ie be big on services not your name, be big on the contact phone number and be recognisable.
. . . just thinking out loud :)