Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: S_RICHARDSON on January 09, 2007, 05:49:40 pm
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Hi all!!
I was wondering who many of JW's where on this site, please reply so I can get a rough idea of how amny there is. I know that this has been on here before but between then and now there has been a lot of new members and maybe they're JW's too.
Come on spill the beans!!!! ;D ;D
BTW I am a JW.
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not me edd
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the bloke i used to work with is and hes a window cleaner
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I am!
This thread will probably soon be deleted though.
Andy
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I am!
This thread will probably soon be deleted though.
Andy
Why?
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I am!
This thread will probably soon be deleted though.
Andy
Why?
Because someone will crack a joke then they'll be a complaint then it gets deleted.
My moneys on you Tosh ;D
I'm not one but my mates brother and mother are and so is someone i went to school with
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yeah............ why. ???
btw, I'm not but my wife is
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Im not, but I used to know a few who were. Theyre just people who enjoy the benefits of our business, Easy life! So they can go about their way of life -- what they believe in! Correct!?
And hope all you JW s didnt accept ya Christmas tips!!!?
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I reckon 40 % of window cleaners are actually not JW
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Because someone will crack a joke then they'll be a complaint then it gets deleted.
My moneys on you Tosh ;D
Not me, mate. I've a lot of respect for JWs. I know quite a few of them (they're either window cleaners or I clean their windows) and they're all decent people.
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I am!
This thread will probably soon be deleted though.
Andy
Why?
Because someone will crack a joke then they'll be a complaint then it gets deleted.
My moneys on you Tosh ;D
I'm not one but my mates brother and mother are and so is someone i went to school with
Yes your right, if anyone decides to turn this into any religious jibe then I will delete the thread, by the way, I am not but my ex - wife and her family are.
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YEP....AND PROUD OF IT ...!
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Count me in Shaun, just mustering up the energy to get ready for the group so will have to switch off.
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Off in half an hour so i'll have to go and my suit and get out there, can't wait to start the Rev Book tonight!!!! Should be very interesting!!!
See you later! :)
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I know this thread has been done before but can somebody tell me why it should be that so many WCs are JWs? I can't see why the two things seem to go togeather.
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I reckon 40 % of window cleaners are actually not JW
I like that ;D
no reason to delete the thread at all, to expand it a little, how many of us are C of E? how many are Catholic?
We tend to pick up on the fact that many window cleaners are JW's, but other faiths are even more well represented!
Ditto Agnostics and Athiests ;)
I know a few JW's who are Postmen, and few in the building industry....even they have to earn a living somehow!!
Ian
I keep trying to post my reply but others keep posting ahead of me!
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Most JW start window cleaning because it sits very well with life style, what other job can you just come and go as you please.
So i got told of one of them
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been studying for 2 years, my wife and most of her family are in the truth. i wasn't brought up that way but i've put the effort in to learn and it's gradualy sinking in. it is very, very interesting (once i got off my high horse and listened).
if the world was full of JW's it would be a far, far better place. :D :D :D
tony
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Athiest me :-*
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Bought a round off a JW years ago ;)
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A lot of JWs window clean because many spend a lot of time in the Field(Knocking on the Doors, Ministry) Service.
So window cleaning allows them to earn a full time wage for part time work. To them the window cleaning earns them a living. But they live for their Faith. It allows them more time for all the Various aspects of their Faith.
W/Cleaning also is a perfect job if you are a JW. You come home from work and can completly forget about it, till you go back to work. You work Generally on your own so if you Pionner it gives you time to think about their Ministry.
I was a JW and I started w/c to give me more time for it. I left in 1996. I would think about 40% sounds right who come on the forum. Many of my Freinds Pionner and w/c. Most I know have moved into wfp.
IF postings dont start slaging them off or attacking them on certain aspects of their faith then their is no reason to Lock the Topic.
Nel.
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I used to be when i was a kid. I can tell you why it is good for them.
We used to go knocking on doors all the time at the weekends (Preaching the word of God.) I know it is a pain but that is the way it goes but to them they have to spread the word of god.
Now for the dull bit.
some of them will try and achieve more hours between 60 -90 hours a month dedicating themselves to this
and finding a job that allows time of to do this is hard.
It has been said B4 Window cleaning is good lolly for the hours worked and your your own boss.
Now for the fun part. How natural is it to knock and canvass for your own customers.
Dudes I know been there and you are less likley to get abuse when u ask if they want a window cleaner instead of a new religion ;-)
Also is door knockers run by a JW ????? ;-)
Regards Jago
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Hi Shawn.
I'm not.
My mum is & a lot in my family are.
Macc
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Jago and Nel,
Very interested to know why you left the truth?
Andy
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Jago,
Do you know the "Bambridge's" by any chance?
Andy
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A few months ago on here i posted a reply to a thread and asked if JWs found doorknocking came naturally as i know some people feel uncomfortable with it.
It was a genuine question and it was deleted :(
Who knows i might get an honest answer to a genuine question ?
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A few months ago on here i posted a reply to a thread and asked if JWs found doorknocking came naturally as i know some people feel uncomfortable with it.
It was a genuine question and it was deleted
Who knows i might get an honest answer to a genuine question ?
Yes, it does come naturally to me... I have been "door knocking" since I was a lad!
Andy
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Andy Who Don't
I think I know your Family too
Where they not from round these parts a long time ago.
Hannah Is like my little sister and I still call mum and dad Uncle Justin and Aunty Terresa.
And Uncle Jollyone ;-)
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How do you know you've never met a Moslem or Jewish W/c?
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Art I think it has helped me in knocking on doors to canvas for work as I said it is an easier Question as it make people think to hard about life.
Windows clean Yes or No
Do you believe in 144000 people residing in heaven as goods cleanses the Earth???
Bit more thought for that one (Slam goes the Door) Ahhh the memories
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Jago - Whats your name mate?
Andy
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Art I think it has helped me in knocking on doors to canvas for work as I said it is an easier Question as it make people think to hard about life.
Windows clean Yes or No
Do you believe in 144000 people residing in heaven as goods cleanses the Earth???
Bit more thought for that one (Slam goes the Door) Ahhh the memories
We used to get alot of JW's knocking doors when i was growing up in Scotland and i always remember my Gran buying a Watchtower everytime they knocked.
When i asked her why, she said everyone believes in something and it's not harming anyone.
Each to there own :)
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Andy which one you married to?
As I said to you b4 bro
A Princess off the Hollands
Anyhooo you might not speak to me again and I need Info and Help buddy
Also why you not at a meeting??? Tues or Thurs or do you share a Hall?
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Your going off topic now Andy.
I wont go into the reasons why I left, but I have been a Pionner and I was very Dynamic when I was invloved with it. My sister,brother and Mother are still involved though.
I wish you would refer to it as your Faith and not as the TRUTH.
I had a very good Knoweldge of my faith when I was involved and I am still very Knowledgeable about all aspects of the Witness.
Nel.
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Andy which one you married to?
As I said to you b4 bro
A Princess off the Hollands
Anyhooo you might not speak to me again and I need Info and Help buddy
Also why you not at a meeting??? Tues or Thurs or do you share a Hall?
Tell me your name, and I'll tell you which one I'm married to :)
My little boy is ill at the mo - So I stayed at home to look after him tonight.
Andy
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Your going off topic now Andy.
I wont go into the reasons why I left, but I have been a Pionner and I was very Dynamic when I was invloved with it. My sister,brother and Mother are still involved though.
I wish you would refer to it as your Faith and not as the TRUTH.
I had a very good Knoweldge of my faith when I was involved and I am still very Knowledgeable about all aspects of the Witness.
Nel.
Sorry Nel - Didn't mean to offend you.
:)
Andy
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No offence taken Andy.
I know its natural for you to talk about it in that way.
Nel
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Jason Glenister
And I hope you are not a gooner fan
Hope the boy gets well soon
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Yeah I remember you! :)
Was it you who used to drive the go-karts?
I'm married to Kate.
Andy
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Yup and Had all the Bikes
Katie the Baby cool how is the Family
I hope they are all well
including your Mad Brother in law lol
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It's a bit of a 'Revelation' how many witnesses window clean. In Stirlingshire there are
around 15, mostly trad but now they've seen my WFP they have now been converted.
Now that's a first JW's been converted by something else, so far 5 have gone that route and I have heard other's are following.
In Fife there are loads cannot count how many.
Many moons back when I was in Telford there were around 50 w/c's working in Shropshire who were JW's. Do not know how many there are now.
It was normally a ladder convention, now it's a pole convention ;D
One thing about JW's it is not easy going, they have many pressures in life trying not to keep on the right track. W/C is a job that does not create that much pressure in life hence why a lot go that route.
Wish I knew years ago.
Doug
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Yup and Had all the Bikes
Katie the Baby cool how is the Family
I hope they are all well
including your Mad Brother in law lol
Kate and x2 kids! Harrison's 5 and Emily is 3.
They are all well thanks... They haven't changed much. Alex now lives in California!
Andy
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i am not, but have customers that are and if i was at all religous i think i would prob go thier way, much respect from me
simbo
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Never met a Moslem or Jewish w\c. Wonder why?
My Mrs is a Muslim and she cleans with me at times.Dai
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I am the pastor of a pentecostal church.
I know most of the window cleaners in my area, and haven't come across a single J.W., i HAVE SEEN PLENTY DOOR KNOCKING, THOUGH !!
Years ago, I was working as an insurance salesman, and on my first day out, the only house that asked me in, was, guess what, a J.W house, it took me about 2 hours to manage to get back out !!
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;D
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What is the little sisters name Andy?
and my missus says you used to drink in Crowthorne
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Bethany is the little sisters name.
Who is your missus?
My brother Tom used to work and drink in Crowthorne - Not me :)
Andy
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Helen Alderman the oldest of the three sisters and that means he drank in the Duke using your card lol
only joking I w3ill ask her
Beth used to be My Daughters House Captin at School.
Nice Girl Hannah I knew best but Katy ahhh man she is the funniest of them Mad as a hatter but hey You know that.
I got two boys
Archie and Arthur
this is not for you Andy
The comment about knowledge!! dont bother with your hollier than thow, he was just saying he had a good knowledge of it all he did not say he left because he knew it all.
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I am :) Left for a couple of years when I was 18 then came back.
I was going to start a thread like this a while back because a lot of Witnesses are window cleaners, but I was afraid the post would be deleted or turn bad.
Its true, window cleaning is ridiculously good money and uniquely flexible so it suits our lifestyle perfectly.. as does lawn treatment :P
Chris
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Hi all!!
I was wondering who many of JW's where on this site, please reply so I can get a rough idea of how amny there is. I know that this has been on here before but between then and now there has been a lot of new members and maybe they're JW's too.
Come on spill the beans!!!! ;D ;D
BTW I am a JW.
Which congregation are you in, Shaun?
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A few months ago on here i posted a reply to a thread and asked if JWs found doorknocking came naturally as i know some people feel uncomfortable with it.
It was a genuine question and it was deleted :(
Who knows i might get an honest answer to a genuine question ?
Art
I have to be honest & say that I have never found the preaching work easy. It doesn't come naturally to me but that doesn't stop me doing it at the weekends.
When I was young free & single I too pioneered (Spent 60 or more hours in the door to door work) but still didn't feel terribly comfortable doing it.
I have often said if our organisation decided tomorrow to stop the preaching work I think I would have the biggest smile on my face. Now if you asked me to give a public talk in front of hundreds of people I would enjoy that, after all they have come to see you, not the other way round.
Neil
Apologies if a few of us JWs use terms that offend you, I can assure you they are not said with that intention in mind.
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A few months ago on here i posted a reply to a thread and asked if JWs found doorknocking came naturally as i know some people feel uncomfortable with it.
It was a genuine question and it was deleted :(
Who knows i might get an honest answer to a genuine question ?
Art
I have to be honest & say that I have never found the preaching work easy. It doesn't come naturally to me but that doesn't stop me doing it at the weekends.
When I was young free & single I too pioneered (Spent 60 or more hours in the door to door work) but still didn't feel terribly comfortable doing it.
I have often said if our organisation decided tomorrow to stop the preaching work I think I would have the biggest smile on my face. Now if you asked me to give a public talk in front of hundreds of people I would enjoy that, after all they have come to see you, not the other way round.
Hi Paul,
So is it one of the things to do x amount of hours doorknocking if your a JW? Hope you don't mind me asking but i'm curious as i've never really understood much about it.
Arthur
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I reckon 40 % of window cleaners are actually not JW
I like that ;D
no reason to delete the thread at all, to expand it a little, how many of us are C of E? how many are Catholic?
We tend to pick up on the fact that many window cleaners are JW's, but other faiths are even more well represented!
Ditto Agnostics and Athiests ;)
I know a few JW's who are Postmen, and few in the building industry....even they have to earn a living somehow!!
Ian
I keep trying to post my reply but others keep posting ahead of me!
Around the East Grinstead area of Sussex, there are a number of scientologists who have turned their hands to window cleaning. W/Cing suits a lot of JWs because of the flexible hours as quite a few of them (as in nearly all) like to be able to spend time doorknocking with their preaching work. My father is a JW and was a builder in his working days. He disliked a lot of the building workers as he got more into religious stuff so he went window cleaning as a sole trader back in the 60s. From there he eventually got back into construction but stayed as a one man band who hired subbies for the work he couldn't/didn't want to do.
Me? Well I'm just seven headed, ten horned, frothing at the mouth apostate :) . Just joking guys. Considering what I went through, I'm pretty laid back about it all really.
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yes, along with my familly, my father turned to window cleaning after the second world war, after he went to Durham jail twice for being a concientious objector and couldnt get a job because of not going to war. He was one of the first JW`s to window clean,in the North east and probably why many became w/c as he is a millionare through window cleaning. Now 82 years old, still an elder and faithfull jw, and still does his own downstairs windows.
idealrob
Robert Turnbull
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To repeat some earlier comments, I have also found it surprising how many WC appear to be JW. The attempt to widen the thread doesn't hold water (sorry) because Cof E and Catholic are for want of a better word mainstream. JW are a minority, so their relative high numbers in this profesion is hard to explain to explain away easily.
A sterotypical or racist interpretation of the sort likely to get this post deleted would be that they maybe have a thing about door knocking, and the evangelism required to hold their faith in the face of constant knock backs and rejection does have some parralels with what we do for a living.
Certain Jobs do attract certain types of people. Does that mean then that JW are a type?
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jws are a cult.
with a history that can wake you laugh and cry in equal measure. the "rev book" has changed nearly everything it once taught as have jws throughout the ages.
thousands dead by refusing blood transfusions. more by thier immoral excommunication rules.
if ANYONE is interested in this religion please email me on ngg74@hotmail.com
if you took a dart and threw it ramdomly into the mess that is our religious world, you couldnt hit a worse example of a corrupt man made religion. run like hell.
jo
i garuentee this gets cut but its the real truth trust me.
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When my Mum was ill they used to call around in the daytime and sit with her , she loved it ., they had time for her .Her local vicar could not of given a t#ss
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Jo as yet no one has got religiouse so please do not
someone was just asking
no one else has slagged of this thread off
I am not a JW and went to Hell and Back through things
and i have not like many objected to this thread
does not mean people can not share info as that is all they are doing here
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jws are a cult.
thousands dead by refusing blood transfusions. .
Quite a statement !!!! Where do you get you figures from
idealrob
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fair point jago
i will shut up.
however its a red rag to me this one.
i even raised this one myself many moons ago.
cheers
jo
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ow come its a red rag to you?
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ill wait till i get shouted at a little bit. and if mods allow will happily open a new thread here on any board you want.
cheers
jo
though i would allways recommend a websearch of something thats lables itself "the truth"
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yep...please keep it civil were all here cos were window cleaners .... 'friendly lot.. 'i thought regardless of wich religion your part of ..or not....dont spoil it for me.. :(
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No one is gonna start 'shouting' at you - we're a placcid lot us here on CIU (Ian Giles can be hard work but no one pays any attention to him ;D ;D ;D)
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like everything everyone has got to have a different view Life would be sooooo boring with everything the same
Jo has his View I got mine but each to there own
I can pick holes all day
But it is thier faith
Anyhooooo who cares seems 40 % are where or still have connections so in that case could be 60%
Scary huh Jo lol
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JM do you know the Ponds are they still on that there Island?
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jm123
i nearly lost my sister to those blood transfusion rules and had to ignore her for 15 years because she dared to break the rules.
thankfully now i have a great relationship with her, no thanks to "the truth"
jo
but ill stop now
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fair point jago
i will shut up.
however its a red rag to me this one.
i even raised this one myself many moons ago.
cheers
jo
If you feel resentment against them, surely the best revenge is to have a good life and show you don't need their belief system.
If you experience anger towards them, surely they are running your life just as surely as if you were one of their number?
Just a couple of thoughts.
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jm123
i nearly lost my sister to those blood transfusion rules and had to ignore her for 15 years because she dared to break the rules.
thankfully now i have a great relationship with her, no thanks to "the truth"
jo
but ill stop now
Sure thing. I wasn't without my problems with them too. It's healthy to rise above it and forgive them. Took me a long time but I got there in the end.
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more than dhw, and maybe more thought out than his last.
jo
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I've had a number of friends faced with that situation, not one of them has taken blood - they all made the decision for themselves, as for having to ignore her for 15 years thats rubbish and you know it - she's your sister - the elders and society would NEVER tell you to ignore her, they might have asked you not to discuss matters relating to meetings etc but ignore her?/ Never. Supposed she was banned from coming to meetings?
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more than dhw, and maybe more thought out than his last.
jo
Well that excludes us none JW's then ???
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shiner
good advice mate. i try to do just that, but it gets to you sometimes.
jo
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I've had a number of friends faced with that situation, not one of them has taken blood - they all made the decision for themselves, as for having to ignore her for 15 years thats rubbish and you know it - she's your sister - the elders and society would NEVER tell you to ignore her, they might have asked you not to discuss matters relating to meetings etc but ignore her?/ Never. Supposed she was banned from coming to meetings?
So am i getting it right here, if your a JW you can't have a blood transfusion?
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jm123
you are prepared to state what goes on in other congregations ?
you know all the elders and how they act ?
my sister was made homeless at 16 because my parents were told to do so. that may have been against the rules, but it happened.
your hall may be great, but i bet you know that its just the same there.
again, i think i should leave it now. my email is there if you want me to chat.
josephus
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google em Art.
itll scare the crap out of you.
and dhw ive been polite im staying thank you.
jo
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Art, if you want to find misconstrued information regarding JW's then by all means google it - if you want to know the facts then I'd suggest you talk to someone who is a JW.
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Art, if you want to find misconstrued information regarding JW's then by all means google it - if you want to know the facts then I'd suggest you talk to someone who is a JW.
That's why i asked the question?
I 'm open minded about most things, even though i had a gut full of religion being brought up in a catholic, protestant enviroment
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Art if you want the fact on unger who do you go to ? Unger or the men who uise Unger and might know what its really like ?
beware anybody who tells you not to look into what they tell you. thats how you get hypnotised ;)
jo
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A few months ago on here i posted a reply to a thread and asked if JWs found doorknocking came naturally as i know some people feel uncomfortable with it.
It was a genuine question and it was deleted :(
Who knows i might get an honest answer to a genuine question ?
Art
I have to be honest & say that I have never found the preaching work easy. It doesn't come naturally to me but that doesn't stop me doing it at the weekends.
When I was young free & single I too pioneered (Spent 60 or more hours in the door to door work) but still didn't feel terribly comfortable doing it.
I have often said if our organisation decided tomorrow to stop the preaching work I think I would have the biggest smile on my face. Now if you asked me to give a public talk in front of hundreds of people I would enjoy that, after all they have come to see you, not the other way round.
Hi Paul,
So is it one of the things to do x amount of hours doorknocking if your a JW? Hope you don't mind me asking but i'm curious as i've never really understood much about it.
Arthur
Sorry didn't reply earlier, nobody is required to do X amount of hours if they don't want to or their personal situation doesn't allow it. I go out at the weekends only, so you can do the math as they say, that's not going to add up to a huge amount each month. But it's not expected of me as I have a wife & 3 children to support.
For those who don't have such responsibilities & who CHOOSE to do so they can volunteer to do so many hours each month. That is called pioneering. But nobody has their hand up your back, it is your own choice.
What is expected of you health permitting is that you devote at least some time each month to the preaching work.
Our name is Jehovah's Witnesses, so that is what we should do, witness or talk about Jehovah. If you don't how can you really be a JW?
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Art if you want the fact on unger who do you go to ? Unger or the men who uise Unger and might know what its really like ?
beware anybody who tells you not to look into what they tell you. thats how you get hypnotised ;)
jo
Jo,
Believe me when i tell you this, i'm more than capable of making my own mind up about any sort of preaching.
As i said previously, JW's or any other sort of religion aren't hurting anyone.
Arthur
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Whoops, sorry, my Mrs has been using the laptop & was logged in under her name.
To some of the offensive posts on this thread, please don't carry it on, I started a thread on exactly the same lines about 6 months ago & eventually it had to be locked because of the agressive nature of some of the comments.
LETS ALL KEEP IT CIVIL PLEASE!!!
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I've had a number of friends faced with that situation, not one of them has taken blood - they all made the decision for themselves, as for having to ignore her for 15 years thats rubbish and you know it - she's your sister - the elders and society would NEVER tell you to ignore her, they might have asked you not to discuss matters relating to meetings etc but ignore her?/ Never. Supposed she was banned from coming to meetings?
Although the issue of taking blood or not may be an individual choice, the penalties for taking it have the potential to be severe though don't they? Although a non believer may not regard it as severe, I believe a JW would?
After all, for some people there is a promise of future immortality and perfection from the day they were born (if born into the JWs). All their friends would be JWs too. Taking of blood leaves the potential for all the above to be removed followed by a friendless life and destruction at the pending Armageddon. So yes, it is a choice but I believe the term is "Hobson's choice". Having said that, I am aware of the policy of repentance/forgiveness/re-instatement that often comes into play in situations where someone has drifted (whether by blood transfusion or other means).
My memory may be serving me badly due to the passing of the years but I understood that unecessary communication with disfellowshipped persons was frowned upon even if not expressly forbidden? BTW. I was a walk away job. Never baptised. Never disfellowshipped so I am not a candidate for shunning (if it's still called that).
I don't actually regard the JW beliefs as any more strange than that of most other religions for what it's worth. It seems to be immortality and perfection on Earth vs. zapped at Armageddon. For others it's live your full lifespan followed by heaven/hell/purgatory. For others it's reincarnation no matter what.
I have no axe to grind but am sometimes curious as to whether the JW faith has become more compassionate over the years. I have to remember that my father was a hardliner and associated with others who had similar views so maybe my early perceptions of JWs was discoloured a bit.
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Art i dont mind if you become a hindu or a mormon.
i dont like it when people tell anyone to ignore commen sense and beleive them. if you ended up loving them i wouldnt mind in the least, but im betting if ANYONE honestly studies thier faith they will be shocked.
this isnt a bad thing, unless you are in a cult. then its the worst thing.
cheers
jo
night all feel free to vilify me. ive got lots to do in the morning !
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An interesting thread, having been brought up a Mormon and having left 3 years ago at the age of 34 I KNOW WHAT THE UPS AN DOWNSIDES oF THESE EVANGELICAL RELIGIONS ARE. Like some one said before, there are lots of great people living good lives in and out of religion and I DONT FEEL THE NEED TO be a part of one, to be a good person, good luck to you if you do. peace
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Whoops, sorry, my Mrs has been using the laptop & was logged in under her name.
To some of the offensive posts on this thread, please don't carry it on, I started a thread on exactly the same lines about 6 months ago & eventually it had to be locked because of the agressive nature of some of the comments.
LETS ALL KEEP IT CIVIL PLEASE!!!
Totally agree Paul. Although I do not share the JWs views on religion, I think it's healthy to disagree without being disagreeable.
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Art i dont mind if you become a hindu or a mormon.
i dont like it when people tell anyone to ignore commen sense and beleive them. if you ended up loving them i wouldnt mind in the least, but im betting if ANYONE honestly studies thier faith they will be shocked.
this isnt a bad thing, unless you are in a cult. then its the worst thing.
cheers
jo
Josephus please dont keep refering to us as a cult, the dictionary definition is,
a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
We do not follow a charismatic leader unless you put Jesus Christ in that classification.
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Art i dont mind if you become a hindu or a mormon.
i dont like it when people tell anyone to ignore commen sense and beleive them. if you ended up loving them i wouldnt mind in the least, but im betting if ANYONE honestly studies thier faith they will be shocked.
this isnt a bad thing, unless you are in a cult. then its the worst thing.
cheers
jo
night all feel free to vilify me. ive got lots to do in the morning !
Jo, no offence to you or anyone else :)
Things were getting interesting and then when i asked exact questions nothing? So maybe i'll leave it as it is.
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the bible clearly states to 'abstain from blood'. There are many alternatives to blood and nowadays most surgeons prefer to use alternatives. In most cases where a transfusion takes place it is not even necessary. One of my best friends was told he would die without a transfusion, he rejected it, had EPO treatment instead, had his operation and has more or less fully recovered, the consultant (who was flown in from America) to perform the operation was stunned with his recovery, better than anyone who had ever gone through a similar procedure. Most of the post-operation complications come about because your body is busy fighting the foreign blood as well as trying to heal itself and so the body is run down. Another good friend (not a JW) is a surgeon, he has studied medicine for 8 years - he agrees that Blood Transfusion is an outdated practice and has told me himself that he would not have a transfusion nor would he allow his family to have one, the substitutes available now are far superior to transfusion and pose none of the post-operations threats that come from blood.
That is why we refuse transfusions, to some it appears hardline and somewhat insane, if you're not convinced try googling blood transfusion substitutes or words to that effect.
Finally, in agreement with paul Mather, referring to us as a cult is derogatory, our faith is based solely on gods word with everyone encouaged to look to gods word for guidance.
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anyway, can one of the mods lock this thread, its gonna get outta hand.
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god i cant leave !!
art sorry mate if you are interested in anything, ask away.
Paul
i agree you are a tricky sory of cult. but a cult you are
your history is superglued to your first 2 leaders. even claiming that your founder was the "faithfull and discreet slave" mentioned in scripture.
now you are stuck to the governing body, who tell you what is truth.
think about it, if you think something is correct, but they dont. your wrong. if they later agree with you,,, your still wrong for jumping ahead.
as to the other things you mention. you are certainly considered to be wrong by mainstream religion, though if anyone of a different faith agrees with you on any point they are masked as a "biblical scholar" and printed in your books. if you read Hans Kungs books you will get in trouble, but your religion can publish him !
as to living out of the mainstream, you do that too.
meeting teusday/thursday night. sunday daytime. service, study. you can hardly be more out of the mainstream and you are forbidden many of the things the mainstream enjoy. ie voting, your choice of career.
cheers
jo
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the bible clearly states to 'abstain from blood'. There are many alternatives to blood and nowadays most surgeons prefer to use alternatives. In most cases where a transfusion takes place it is not even necessary. One of my best friends was told he would die without a transfusion, he rejected it, had EPO treatment instead, had his operation and has more or less fully recovered, the consultant (who was flown in from America) to perform the operation was stunned with his recovery, better than anyone who had ever gone through a similar procedure. Most of the post-operation complications come about because your body is busy fighting the foreign blood as well as trying to heal itself and so the body is run down. Another good friend (not a JW) is a surgeon, he has studied medicine for 8 years - he agrees that Blood Transfusion is an outdated practice and has told me himself that he would not have a transfusion nor would he allow his family to have one, the substitutes available now are far superior to transfusion and pose none of the post-operations threats that come from blood.
That is why we refuse transfusions, to some it appears hardline and somewhat insane, if you're not convinced try googling blood transfusion substitutes or words to that effect.
Finally, in agreement with paul Mather, referring to us as a cult is derogatory, our faith is based solely on gods word with everyone encouaged to look to gods word for guidance.
Thanks for the reply, but that was nothing more than deflecting the question i asked.
So my origional question wasn't really answered.
If you could without quoting scriptures answer my question?
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Jo,
I think you should just leave it at that, this is no place for it!
Pro
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Intra-operative or post-operative blood salvage: Patients undergoing surgery sometimes need transfusions to replace the blood lost during or after the operation. In some cases this lost blood can be 'salvaged' by collecting it with a special machine and infusing it back into the patient. Giving a person back his or her own (autologous) blood cuts down on the need for transfusions from other donors. (Another type of autologous transfusion is described in the Blood Donation section, below.)
Blood substitutes: So far, there is no real substitute for human blood. Researchers are working to develop a blood substitute that will not have the risks of blood transfusions. Products that are being tested include hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers and perfluorochemical compounds. They can perform some red blood cell functions, such as carrying oxygen to tissues, but they do not replace human blood.
Most blood substitutes are experimental and are rarely used. They may be used as a temporary measure in patients whose religious beliefs do not allow them to have blood product transfusions. They may also benefit patients with rare blood types whose immune systems would destroy available donated blood. The substitutes may be used until compatible donated blood can be located, which in some cases might take several days.
true, but the body also produces blood very quickly - test studies have found that there is no significant risk in not having a transfusion (I'll try and find the reference).
Art - in a word No, JW's are not permitted to have transfusions although its not just as straightforward as this.
Thomas, how old is that information you have - EPO has been used for about 15years, is not considered experimental - it is expensive though, ut then again thats why transfusions have been used for so long - they're very cheap. But hey, what do we pay our taxes for?
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thats a deal pro my email stands anyway.
sleep well
jo
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the bible clearly states to 'abstain from blood'. There are many alternatives to blood and nowadays most surgeons prefer to use alternatives. In most cases where a transfusion takes place it is not even necessary. One of my best friends was told he would die without a transfusion, he rejected it, had EPO treatment instead, had his operation and has more or less fully recovered, the consultant (who was flown in from America) to perform the operation was stunned with his recovery, better than anyone who had ever gone through a similar procedure. Most of the post-operation complications come about because your body is busy fighting the foreign blood as well as trying to heal itself and so the body is run down. Another good friend (not a JW) is a surgeon, he has studied medicine for 8 years - he agrees that Blood Transfusion is an outdated practice and has told me himself that he would not have a transfusion nor would he allow his family to have one, the substitutes available now are far superior to transfusion and pose none of the post-operations threats that come from blood.
That is why we refuse transfusions, to some it appears hardline and somewhat insane, if you're not convinced try googling blood transfusion substitutes or words to that effect.
Finally, in agreement with paul Mather, referring to us as a cult is derogatory, our faith is based solely on gods word with everyone encouaged to look to gods word for guidance.
I've no intention of discussing doctrine in any depth but my (admittedly addled) memory recalls that the abstaining command was a reference to actually "eating" blood (presumably meaning drinking it) and was given in times when transfusions could not possibly have been envisaged. Having said that, I fully accept what you say about there being plenty of viable alternatives to blood transfusions these days and that transfusion is largely an unnecessary practise.
As for the "cult" label, I wasn't aware of the exact meaning and may have used the term myself in another thread a few months ago. I did not realise that JWs found the word offensive. So for my earlier indiscretion, I sincerely apologise and promise not to repeat it.
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Intra-operative or post-operative blood salvage: Patients undergoing surgery sometimes need transfusions to replace the blood lost during or after the operation. In some cases this lost blood can be 'salvaged' by collecting it with a special machine and infusing it back into the patient. Giving a person back his or her own (autologous) blood cuts down on the need for transfusions from other donors. (Another type of autologous transfusion is described in the Blood Donation section, below.)
Blood substitutes: So far, there is no real substitute for human blood. Researchers are working to develop a blood substitute that will not have the risks of blood transfusions. Products that are being tested include hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers and perfluorochemical compounds. They can perform some red blood cell functions, such as carrying oxygen to tissues, but they do not replace human blood.
Most blood substitutes are experimental and are rarely used. They may be used as a temporary measure in patients whose religious beliefs do not allow them to have blood product transfusions. They may also benefit patients with rare blood types whose immune systems would destroy available donated blood. The substitutes may be used until compatible donated blood can be located, which in some cases might take several days.
So it's a choice between life and death!
Let's hope that babies aren't ever subjected to that choice and who has to live with the decision.
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anyway, can one of the mods lock this thread, its gonna get outta hand.
JM123.
Personally I find this discussion interesting and hope it isn't locked. Ok so "Josephus" may have the hump a bit but apart from him it all seems fairly reasonable and even he seems to be showing a certain amount of self restraint (though fairly limited maybe).
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Propole - Jehovah is gods name, Exodus 6:3 Isiah 83:18, anyway, most people are not familiar with it because many of the churces have removed it from their bible. By the way the references are from the Old King James bible (as used by CofE).
Art - do you think ANYONE takes the decision lightly? Babies cannot make decisions for themselves and are therefore dependent on their parents, its a very sensitive area. I know parents who have faced that decision before and again it helps to know what alternatives there are.
Shiner, I just feel that sometimes the internet isn't the best forum for these sorts of things. As for comparing JW's and beliefs to Unger?? I do feel very strongly though about people making assumptions about the blood issue when they obviously know very little about it - I lost a good friend not so long ago - he refused blood, it wouldn't have saved him anyway, the cancer had spread into 3 chambers of his heart and they couldn't see it on his scans, but low and behold some other people had a go at me because 'he'd still be here if he had taken blood' - nonsense, we want good health and value our bodies as much as if not more than most people - hence we don't smoke, drink excessively or do anything that puts our life in danger unnecessarily. Now if we can please go back on topic, I think the original post was asking who on here is a JW?
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).
Art - do you think ANYONE takes the decision lightly? Babies cannot make decisions for themselves and are therefore dependent on their parents, its a very sensitive area. I know parents who have faced that decision before and again it helps to know what alternatives there are.
Johnathan, of course i don't think ANYONE takes these decisions lightly!
Are these alternatives available to everyone in every hospital in the UK?
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Well every hospital has its own medical teams who may use different procedures/drugs etc, I could not honestly say whether every hospital has these provisions but my guess would be that they all have at least some of the substitutes. Sorry if this is boring anyone else to tears by the way, but it is the most important thing in my life.
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Johnathan,
As i stated earlier about everyone had to believe in something and JW's weren't harming anyone, well sorry but you've changed my mind about all that, unless i've missed something, but your faith is beyond the realms of my understanding of realism.
Good luck Arthur
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Propole - Jehovah is gods name, Exodus 6:3 Isiah 83:18, anyway, most people are not familiar with it because many of the churces have removed it from their bible. By the way the references are from the Old King James bible (as used by CofE).
Art - do you think ANYONE takes the decision lightly? Babies cannot make decisions for themselves and are therefore dependent on their parents, its a very sensitive area. I know parents who have faced that decision before and again it helps to know what alternatives there are.
Shiner, I just feel that sometimes the internet isn't the best forum for these sorts of things. As for comparing JW's and beliefs to Unger?? I do feel very strongly though about people making assumptions about the blood issue when they obviously know very little about it - I lost a good friend not so long ago - he refused blood, it wouldn't have saved him anyway, the cancer had spread into 3 chambers of his heart and they couldn't see it on his scans, but low and behold some other people had a go at me because 'he'd still be here if he had taken blood' - nonsense, we want good health and value our bodies as much as if not more than most people - hence we don't smoke, drink excessively or do anything that puts our life in danger unnecessarily. Now if we can please go back on topic, I think the original post was asking who on here is a JW?
Oh right. Josephus made a comparison with Unger. I can't speak for him but I assume he was using analogy rather than trying to demean your beliefs (although he seemed to do that in other posts).
Totally agree with you about looking after our bodies. I don't drink or smoke either. In fact, I don't even eat meat as I have doubts about that too. However, I'm currently dieting as I have got sloppy with my weight management since the onset of middle age (and a little bit before if truth be told :) ).
Also, it is very true what you say about the internet not always being the best medium for such discussions. It is very easy to make assumptions about the emotions of someone else who is writing - often wrongly. That is why I am often at pains to make it clear that I have no problems with the JWs on here (or the ones I occasionally meet in my non internet life). Hopefully they have none with me either. In discussions like this, I have always striven to be factually correct and have not let it get personal and I do understand that my father was exceptionally extreme with his interpretation of JW beliefs. Rightly or wrongly, I call it the way I see it and have always done my best to be totally honest in threads like these. I do try to have a sense of humour about such things but have realised that some may interpret this as me being mocking. This is an unfortunate side effect of humour via written word inasmuch that it can be easily misunderstood.
Anyway, back to topic. No I'm not one but I was brought up as one but left in 1973 without being baptised.
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hi
dont want to get to involved in this interesting discussion... can sleep but must try...
the alternatives are widley available problem is people are not informed about them ,reasons being
cost ! how would people react ...stop giving blood.. this is crazy when most of the time for a small capital expenditure say on a cell saver machine...bear with me .. would reduce lose of blood during procedures,at a cost of about £15000 (for wich locally we have raised money for several hospitals to purchase) and in its life time would save millions on obtaining blood... but guess what no money for capital expenditure....and that was from a doctor !
interestingly so advanced are alternatives that many hospitals worldwide are going bloodless we have one right here in uk in essex i think...
whilst jw's descision is purley a scriptual one , seeking and using alternatives is fast becoming
best practice for many hospitals,naturally jw's becouse of thier stand have to have a greater understanding of this,but in my opinion and that of an ever growing number in the medical all would do well to make an 'informed' descision before ever taking blood.
hop this helps art & goodnight....
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No sweat shiner.
Art, to many it does seem illogical, you are entitled to have an opinion but I wouldn't be the best person to talk to about this. Anyway, goodnight, I need to sleep.
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must be tierd just checked my spelling and grammer......can we av spellcheck on er .. ;D
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I agree this is an interesting discussion. and im trying to be fairly nice throughout it. if anyone is upset at me, well they should want to put me straight on the issues.
as far as blood transfusions are concerned, I can help. the bits of the bible the guys have mentioned that they use to say blood is wrong in medical settings were also used in the 50s to say organ transplants were wrong. and before that jws were told to, sorry ordered, not to take inoculations!! they were told by thier leaders in brooklyn that inoculations were "filthy animal pus" I know it sounds bizarre but its true guys and one final, final point I can make is this.
youl will see a good few guys here who are witnesses will no longer post on this thread or in future any I start. that’s fine I hear you say. except they will do it because they are commanded to ignore me, if they don’t and their leaders in thier local halls find out they will be punished.
now that’s just creepy.
jo
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Jo, you say punished? In what way?
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by being sentenced to six months scraping birdpoop off leaded windows in the rain!
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Guys, you know who you are but lets stop now. It may be good talking about it but as many a time as mentioned in assemblies we never know who we are talking to.
So can we refrain from this subject as if like me I start beginning to wonder who I am talking to. There are many good chaps on this forum witness and non witness but we need to be weary.
Some good comments and good discussions but as many as you know this can get out of hand, as you know.
We are all window cleaners wether religion or race so the best thing we should talk about is how do we get this industry recognised to higher profile.
Work tomorrow so night, night.
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The first ever window cleaner I ever chatted to about his job was my mate who was JW, he was doing OK I was about 20 ish and he was about 17, lots of unemployment around. He gave me a quick explaination of what was inolved. Told me to go and knock a few doors.
So I did, only it was much harder than he made out, I think (it was a long time ago) I got two customers but I decided to not bother.
Now, this is why a lot of WCs are JWs I guess. I guess by the time he started he had built into his mentality that you could knock, knock and knock some more, getting no where at all, then a result. Keep it going over a period of time he could look back and say to himself "I remember when I first met all these people". In other words, he knew the power of possetive thinking getting results if given enough time.
Me? I had not got a clue, to me I was doing something wrong. I got 2, if I had done that every spare hour I had I would be very happy now. But I was not used to getting rejection after rejection and did not understand that 1+1+1+1+1 continued for as long as you like = as many as you like.
My religion was Anglican, now I have none and still respect everyones. (though I do enjoy offering vegeterians a sausage sandwich which probably offends a few religions)
PS. As I was posting this I read D.A's post. Deleted my friends name from this post. Shame I did not realise their were those sorts of threats but I think I get ya.
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Time to lock the topic, far too many replies are discussing aspects that need to be discussed on the other part of the forum!
This isn't the section for theological discussions or debates on religion!
I think we can all agree that window cleaning is a job that is most suitable to JW's.
Ian