Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: [GQC] Tim on December 12, 2006, 08:25:16 pm
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I really don't have the space for a Homebase 1000 litre RO system, so I would like to have an all in vehicle setup. I was thinking 250l was enough since I'm domestic and having not too many customers a day. Should I stick with 250l or get a 400l one? It's for a Citroen Berlingo, I think max payload is 600kg.
At this moment everything is traditional, but late 2007 or early 2008, I'd like to switch to wfp. I'm researching as much as I can, and I must say it is all a bit difficult searching for the info I need. Especially on hose fittings etc.
If anyone has a schematic (can be simple MS Paint) of how everything is connected to each other in the van (with the appropriate name of the connectors as well), that'd be great.
Bit of a multipurpose topic this, but oh well! Better then to start another one I guess! :)
thanks!
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Its all very simple really.
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Thanks for the explanation, helps alot! Just a couple of questions more.
- (Tank size 250l or 400l)
- What kind of Connectors do you use from the Tap to RO system?
- Where does the hose from the RO system go? In the top of the tank? Or with a proper barb screwed in the tank, and at what height?
- What kind of connectors do you use with Microbore? And is 'Pump to Hosereel', and 'hosereel to pole' the only parts in the system that you use microbore?
- How can you stop it from overfilling overnight? (and flooding the van lol) do I need a Auto shut off system for that? And would a floater based one be enough?
Looks doable for DIY installation to be honest, don't need to spend £2500 for a complete system hehe.
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Tank: 250 really. 400 will weigh around 430 when full. That only leaves you 170 for all the other gear, fuel, people on board. If only one person is in the vehicle you should be just about OK with the 400 but 2 will definately put you overweight.
The RO system suppliers all do tap connectors for the 1/4 inch piping they use for the type of system that you will need. You can put the pipe from the RO?DI system into the tank lid but you risk flooding. You can get a cheap,..25 quid..ish auto cut off kit. You would need to drill a small hole in the top of the tank to fit it. Its basically a very small float valve.
The tanks come with threaded female outlets but all the suppliers do connectors for these. From the tank to pump and pump to reel its easiest to use 13mm hose with just a hozelock connector to the reel. You are best to buy complete microbore kits from the suppliers with the reel and microbore hose. You probably could save a few pennies by finding your own connectors but it wont be worth the bother.
You will be able to get a good package deal with all the bits and bobs you need for around a grand or a bit less. The size of the RO and type and length of pole will be what makes most difference.
Rich.
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Thank you so much for that info!! I really appreciate it! (250l it is!)
I have another question (hope you don't mind)
How do you adjust the flow rate? Is it enough to just use a Pole control valve? And how do you know how much pressure you need? (and how to adjust the pump accordingly) I hope the question makes sense. My pump would be a Flojet 60psi pump.
Thanks again! :)
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Through experience I now always use a Varistream to control flow. You can use an inline tap to do it but you risk burning your pressure switch out. The Varistream gives you the right pressure for the flow you want automatically.
Rich.
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Sounds great! What should the pressure be for a 1 pole operator? (100meter hosereel) And why would you ever want to turn the flow down or up?
Am I correct in saying the following lists the most expensive and main items I need? Did I miss anything? (other then connectors and hooking up pump)
RO Man 75 Gpd Pro4 Stage RO System with DI unit
Inline Dual TDS Meter
Flojet 60psi Pump
VariStream 2
Tank 250ltr
19 Facelift Glass Fibre Pole
25cm Vikan Jetted Brush Or Tucker Brush
100 Meter Micro bore Hose
10 mtrs Micro bore hose (Reel to Pole)
Hose Reel
Auto shut off system (float based)
Heavy Duty Tank Fitting Kit
Speedlining van
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Go for a 400l , trust me I have a 250l which is not enough and I have to fill it up
each day at customers houses which can be a pain.. I am now buying another 250l tank to give me 500l capacity which will be enough.
Doug
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hi how long dos it take to fill up a 250 tank with di filter ? do u hav to leave it over night?
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With a DI system a 250L tank is filled in around 10mins.
Doug
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You say that you dont have room for a 1000ltr at home so why not start with a 650 ltr upright at home. I started off with a 650 at home but with a 250 in the van, when i got busier i put the 650 in the van and sold the 250 just something to think about
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hi doug how well do these di systems work as i live in very hard water area
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Your resin would not last long so your costs will be high, therefore for hard water area you will need an R/O which will be a longer proccess.
Doug
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hi doug how well do these di systems work as i live in very hard water area
Hard water area = RO + DI only, just DI is way to expensive for that. Check out the link below and you'll have a rough estimate.
http://www.cleantech.co.uk/tdscalc.htm
You say that you dont have room for a 1000ltr at home so why not start with a 650 ltr upright at home. I started off with a 650 at home but with a 250 in the van, when i got busier i put the 650 in the van and sold the 250 just something to think about
Well, I'm moving in 2008 to a 1 bedroom flat. Maybe I'll have a shared garden, but I don't see that working to begin with. In fact even a vehicle based setup might be problematic. :-\
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Go for a 400l , trust me I have a 250l which is not enough and I have to fill it up
each day at customers houses which can be a pain.. I am now buying another 250l tank to give me 500l capacity which will be enough.
Doug
I've just upgraded from 250 to 400 litres and i can work all day now. I used to come home luchtime to refill with 250 litres.
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Thanks for that, I guess 400l is a must then! :)
If anyone could answer this last question, that'd be great!
What should the pressure be for a 1 pole operator? (100meter hosereel) And why would you ever want to turn the flow down or up?
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Thanks for that, I guess 400l is a must then! :)
If anyone could answer this last question, that'd be great!
What should the pressure be for a 1 pole operator? (100meter hosereel) And why would you ever want to turn the flow down or up?
Could anyone please answer that last question please? Thanks! :)
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GQC, to answer your last question, pressure is not important, a 60psi pump will supply the same flow as a 100psi pump if the flow rate of the 2 is the same. It is flow rate which is important - I'd recommend a 5ltr/min 100psi shurflo pump from williamson pumps (www.williamsonpumps.co.uk (http://www.williamsonpumps.co.uk)), one of the best but cheapest pump on the market.
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Just looking through this thread again I reckon that a 400 litre tank in a vehicle with a 600kg payload is just not on. Even a 250 could be pushing your luck.
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we fit a 400ltr tank as STANDARD to all 600kg payload vans. a 400ltr tank hold less than 400ltrs (about 360 due to baffles), tank weighs 27kg, plus battery and 2 poles plus reel etc comes in at around 440kgs so assuming a full diesel tank (45kg) you'd need to be over 17stone to even come close to your payload, and thats fully loaded with a full water tank and fuel tank.
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we fit a 400ltr tank as STANDARD to all 600kg payload vans. a 400ltr tank hold less than 400ltrs (about 360 due to baffles), tank weighs 27kg, plus battery and 2 poles plus reel etc comes in at around 440kgs so assuming a full diesel tank (45kg) you'd need to be over 17stone to even come close to your payload, and thats fully loaded with a full water tank and fuel tank.
I suppose it does depend what other equipment someone intends to carry. I find a water trolley essential equipment for certain jobs so need to allow more to carry that. I also tend to carry two hosereels as I need them on some jobs plus I have a larger diesel tank (90 litres).
I see what you mean about it being possible though it would be necessary to travel light on equipment (lighter than I would wish to anyway). I suppose a lot depends on the type of work someone has. Also, I wasn't aware that the 400 litre tank only held 360 litres. That can make a difference too.
Apart from that, I'm overweight :)
Here's to New Year resolutions.
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The last berlingo we kitted out had a 400ltr tank, pump, varistream, 110Ah battery, tank cage, 11ltr di vessel, 12ft extender pole, 25ft eco-lite glass fibre, 35ft eco-lite carbon fibre, metal hosereel with 50m minibore and a full set of handtools. Took it the weighbridge at the farming supply yard, with a full tank of water and all equipment it only weighed 432kg more than the empty van (weighed it before fitting the van out, only about a mile to workshop from weighbridge so very little fuel used).
Can't imagine a trolley would be that heavy?? Why not go for a backpack instead??
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The last berlingo we kitted out had a 400ltr tank, pump, varistream, 110Ah battery, tank cage, 11ltr di vessel, 12ft extender pole, 25ft eco-lite glass fibre, 35ft eco-lite carbon fibre, metal hosereel with 50m minibore and a full set of handtools. Took it the weighbridge at the farming supply yard, with a full tank of water and all equipment it only weighed 432kg more than the empty van (weighed it before fitting the van out, only about a mile to workshop from weighbridge so very little fuel used).
Can't imagine a trolley would be that heavy?? Why not go for a backpack instead??
A trolley is more practical than a backpack for my particular uses - the main issue being the amount of water that can be carried. Also, I tend to start with the trolley full to save filling time if I need to use it I have a number of jobs where I would need to return to vehicle a couple of times (a long walk) to refill backpack whereas the trolley (50 litres) can do it in one journey. Having said that there are a couple of jobs where backpack would be easier but they are far outweighed by the ones where the trolley is better.
Another issue for me with a smaller van would be the amount of water that can be carried. I often use rather more than 360 litres a day. This may partly be because I don't use a varistream or similar. I have tended to work with a pretty high flow from the tank and reduce it with a manual flow tap at the end of the hose. In recent times I have reduced the flow further and it still seems to come up fine.
I opted for a larger tank etc from the start as I wanted to be able to do distant first cleans on larger jobs without being concerned as to whether I had enough water on board. It is often not possible to hook up to a supply to produce pur(ish) water on the fly.
I do see though that a smaller tank with flow restrictor (varistream or similar) would be OK for certain work. I wanted to allow myself room for expansion without needing to upgrade the kit too much a year or two down the line. If I had gone for the 600 kg payload with 360 litre tank etc, I would have been looking to get something bigger by now.
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The bottom line is to always go for more than you need, if you think you only need 400ltrs in a day,get a 650ltr tank (obviously without going over your payload). It doesn't cost much more to start with (only the extra cost of the larger tank) and will allow room for expansion. Think of it as elasticated jeans :D
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You only want to turn the flow rate down if you are useing to much water.
In time you will clean windows with less water as your experince grows.
Flow rate is important in the sense that the higher your flow rate the faster you will empty your van tank. JM123 says 5ltrs a min. For me thats way to much, I have a flow rate about 1.9 to 2ltrs a min on average. So that means ny water will last twice as long from my tank. If your flow rate is to slow you will spend more time rinseing a window then if it where faster.
I have a 60psi flowjet and its fine. Because its 40psi less then a 100 psi pump you put less pressure on your connections in your van. For me that means LEAK FREE.
I had one of my reels fitted with a 50mtr 1/2" hose when I started,I used it for first cleans due to it haveing an higher flow rate. About 6 ltrs a min I clocked it at. I now just use 100 mtr Microbore on both reels.
I dont use a varistream as the flow rate is spot on. I use a valve on my hose to turn the water on and off.
Nel, Good luck.
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Hi Nel, I only recommended the Shurflo 5ltr/min 100psi pump - not a flow rate from the end of your hose of 5ltrs/min - thats way too much, without a varistream, over 100m of minibore it will pump approx 2ltr/min, I still would recommend using a varistream though as you can turn the pump speed down and still get 1.5 - 2.0 ltrs a min out of the hose due to way water behaves, its hard to explain but try it yourself, you'll be amazed. If you look at your own pumps they are probably around the 5 or 6ltr/min mark.
Main reasons for recommending the shurflo is its cost (just about the cheapest), it is SPECIFICALLY designed for wfp applications (most aren't) and the fact that the 100psi model has more robust internals (dial setting inside the varistream will determine the pressure level it will cut out at).
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The pressure of the pump and flow rate are really irrelevant if you use a varistream - unless you turn it up full blast. Listen to the pump when the varistream is on your normal rate. Even with the varistream half way its barely ticking over and kicks out way less than 5 ltrs a min. Also, because the varistrean turns the pump off when you turn your tap off, the pressure never builds.
I used to use the pressure switch with the 100psi pump and the pressure kept rising after i turned the tap off. In fact it was immense and things leaked.
Same pump with the varistream and hardly any pressure and no leaks. Even turned up full blast, when I turn the tap off the pump stops so you never get 100psi making the connections leak.
I have a doblo 630kg and a 400 ltre tank. I just don't fill it up to the brim when I'm carrying extra kit.
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i wouldn't go for a 19ft facelift pole, i would recommend you get the 24ft or even 34ft one. the pole is fully de-mountable anyway, so you can still use it at any length you like but having the extra sections does come in VERY handy and it's not that much more in price if you buy it longer to start with.
you'll be suprised how many windows you just can't quite reach with a 19ft pole. you will have much more flexibility if you go the above route. ;) ;)