Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: D.Salkeld_Ltd on December 08, 2006, 07:25:36 pm
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Hi All,
After spending a lot of time on this forum I feel most of us on here are
Window Cleaners and not realy Business people
What do you feel??
I will add my further comments later.
David
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I'm a salesman who also cleans windows, as opposed to a window cleaner who touts for more business.
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im a window cleaner who works for himself :)
i dont have idea's of granduar ;) ;) ;)
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Wavie.
What do you sell?
Matt,
What is your Aim?
David
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We are all salesmen selling our service.
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As D Woods says.
I was in sales before I started window cleaning and the customer has got to buy you before they buy your product/service
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Matt,
What is your Aim?
David
you sound like my career's advisor in school :), i told him i was going to be a carpenter / builder
My aim, Hmmmm its a tough 1 that, after a little though, my aim currently is to be able to keep working 3 days a week, my little un starts school next year, so i could work 5 days, BUT dont fancy it, will most prob work 3 or 4 days a week and set up a VW aircooled resto outfit, restoring and fitting custom interior into old VW campervans ( thus my carpentery skils will come into play ) in my spare time, i miss the job satisfaction of carpentry / building work, sure a clean window is a clean window is a clean window ( and i wont rubbish it) but the job satisfaction of fitting a nice kitchen or a clean window, no competion really
the money is good for window cleaning and ive set up a very nice round (mostly brought in, but ive filled the gaps) so i doubt i would pack it in, just take on something else to get that job satisfaction
ive got to be carefull what i type (as my stalker will be watching and is bound to make some snide remark)
Ive also toyed with going to College / uni again , part time 1 day a week , i have my HNC in building studies so could go further that line, or just go for a change, though i dont know if i could put with idiots ( and many students seem to be idiots )
so looks like window cleaning for a while with a sprinkling of Woodwork thrown into the mix ;)
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im a pc,answer phone wage clerk,sales person ,van driver ,order sales ,have biz meetings, petrol fore court filler ,
accountant, father and in my spare time im a fire fighter ,
i would like to see some biz man come from behind his desk and do this im even beter than that
oh did i also mention tyre fitter ,mechanic,networker,advertiser,web analist lol
IN FACT JUST CALL ME SUPER SHAMMY DAVIS FROM NOW ON
;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Bit off topic, Matt thers a guy in my town does the VW thing, he imports all his from California changes them to RHD and fits them out. He sells them for 10K plus and is doing really well. Will get his website to you in a day or so.
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Bit off topic, Matt thers a guy in my town does the VW thing, he imports all his from California changes them to RHD and fits them out. He sells them for 10K plus and is doing really well. Will get his website to you in a day or so.
its a great little earner, buy them in for 3 K and sell them as if for 10 K
do them up a little and fit a nice interior and you are looking at 15 - 18 K
to be honest, i woudnt do it for the money, just for the joy of it, as i would have my WC'ing to bring in the pennies :) aslong as i didnt lose cash on the vans then i would be happy
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I run a business. Our services are window cleaning.
My employees other than admin staff are window cleaners.
The great thing about window cleaning is that you can get out of it what you want. if you want a nice living with the freedom of being your own boss then fine. Some want more and to achieve that you really have to become a business person. There's been many times along the way that I could happily have gone back to the tools on my own but my responsibilities to others as an employer have kept me going.
I also sub a lot of work out and exprience has taught me to only engage the services of people who treat WC as a business.
Rich.
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I have been in business since 67, various. I choose window cleaning, to use as a business vehicle -to make money.
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im a window cleaner who works for himself :)
i dont have idea's of granduar ;) ;) ;)
Come on Matt, its still your business, it may be window cleaning but its still a business. ;)
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I admit,im far from a great business man,but then i dont want to be.Im too generous,and possess a conscience
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im a window cleaner who works for himself :)
i dont have idea's of granduar ;) ;) ;)
Come on Matt, its still your business, it may be window cleaning but its still a business. ;)
true, its a business ( and its mine ) BUT i stil would say im a window cleaner
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OK folks. Let me put this scenario to you.
You are a one man band. You can't work for a lengthy time maybe as a result of an accident or illness. What do you do then? Will your "business" still make money? The honest answer has to be no. Also you will probably lose a large proportion of your customers. They will understand for a month or two but much longer than that and they will go elsewhere.
I speak from personal experience here. When I got back to the stage where I could work after an illness lasting a few months which was bad enough but lack of money really caused big problems I decided that I had to treat WC as a business to protect myself from anything similar again.
Rich
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I speak from personal experience here. When I got back to the stage where I could work after an illness lasting a few months which was bad enough but lack of money really caused big problems I decided that I had to treat WC as a business to protect myself from anything similar again.
Rich
so rich, how did you achive that, what did you do to protect yourself
im interested as on wednesday i pulled my shoulder, the pain was imense and i ended up in the hospital, they thought i could have had a heart attack ( im only 35 and fairly stress free ), 3 ECG's latter they decided i had just muscle damage
it got me thinking
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Matt.
Sorry to hear about that
In a nutshell I had to get disciplined and determined to expand to the stage where others could keep me going. Also I took out any insurances that I could find. It may sound cynical about others keeping me but in reallity it doesnt have to be as hard headed and uncaring as it sounds. It IS possible to do this ethically and with decent morals despite the stereotypical image.
Within a year of getting back to work I had 3 employees and things grew from there. So now if I should get crocked my business will still provide me with a good living. People skills are very important and the one big piece of advice is to find someone who is 2nd in command who runs the business from day to day. A general manager for want of better words.
It takes a whole lot of hard work and determination to achieve and not everyone is cut out for it. They are not inferior in any way its just a fact of life.
I am no typical "high flyer" type. I left school with no qualifications. I've learned from the school of hard knocks. I guess its in my personality to set goals and work until they are achieved.
I'm rambling now so I will leave it at that.
Rich
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Thanks for the replies.
As for me. Well, I am not natrualy a Business man. I come from a Sth Yorkshire "Working Class" family. You go to work, do your hours and come home. On Friday you pick up your wage packet! Simple!
I was doing that 20 years ago.............and told em to stuff it!!
But 20years on I still think the same but my work is totaly different.
I enjoy the sales part of our job but soon get bored of the production side.
The reason I asked Matt what his aim was was because I need to ask myself the same Question??
I like this site because there are folks in the same boat as me who understand where I am coming from (job wise)
I would like a little help as to how I can become a businesman and achieve the best out of my little business
Thanks
David
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OK folks. Let me put this scenario to you.
You are a one man band. You can't work for a lengthy time maybe as a result of an accident or illness. What do you do then? Will your "business" still make money? The honest answer has to be no. Also you will probably lose a large proportion of your customers. They will understand for a month or two but much longer than that and they will go elsewhere.
I speak from personal experience here. When I got back to the stage where I could work after an illness lasting a few months which was bad enough but lack of money really caused big problems I decided that I had to treat WC as a business to protect myself from anything similar again.
Rich
Indeed Rich, I fell foul of a lengthy illness too a couple of years back. I lost a fair chunk of work over it but made sure that I kept my better work (I was able to work part-time on my better days). I'm not yet ready to start employting. That is probably still a couple of years away. First target is to maximise my potential as a sole trader. Before, I had more work than I could cope with and I wasn't charging enough for my services. Now it is different. I still have some work where I should be charging more but the work I have taken on since being ill has a decent price tag attached to it. Would appreciate it if we could talk when I get nearer the time to start employing (don't wait by the phone for me though ;D ).
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Matt.
Sorry to hear about that
In a nutshell I had to get disciplined and determined to expand to the stage where others could keep me going. Also I took out any insurances that I could find. It may sound cynical about others keeping me but in reallity it doesnt have to be as hard headed and uncaring as it sounds. It IS possible to do this ethically and with decent morals despite the stereotypical image.
Within a year of getting back to work I had 3 employees and things grew from there. So now if I should get crocked my business will still provide me with a good living. People skills are very important and the one big piece of advice is to find someone who is 2nd in command who runs the business from day to day. A general manager for want of better words.
It takes a whole lot of hard work and determination to achieve and not everyone is cut out for it. They are not inferior in any way its just a fact of life.
I am no typical "high flyer" type. I left school with no qualifications. I've learned from the school of hard knocks. I guess its in my personality to set goals and work until they are achieved.
I'm rambling now so I will leave it at that.
Rich
I would like to be in that position.fair play to ya
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I had an experience today whilst cleaning windows, out comes the next door neighbour and says can you do mine. My first thoughts its the Crimbo period not going to get caught again for a one off clean.
So start adding windows come up with a price of £18 to make it high, see the old girl wave in the window and think oops too high as they are old need to drop it. Quoted £14 and she took it.
Later she says popping off the hubby will pay, out comes the spanking new Mercedes. She then says do it regular, after finishing the husband says thank you we will call you when we need it done next time.
I've been done again, if I had my business head it should have been £18 but being kind hearted a big fault I've got cheated.
Same again in the pub, landlord asked for quote on pub. Knowing him I want to quote low but being business like it should be high.
I can be business like on people I do not know , but when it comes to old people and who I know it goes out the window.
Doug
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Its all about motivation really.
Mine? Never to lose everything I have again. Never to actually go hungry and watch loved ones do the same. If you dont think it can happen to you. You are kidding yourself unless you are protected properly. It's all well and good to say "I can work when I want" or "Its the easy going lifestyle"
Sorry if this ruffles a few feathers. Its not inteneded to. I went through a very bad time because my attitude was the same. never again!!!
Rich.
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I admit,im far from a great business man,but then i dont want to be.Im too generous,and possess a conscience
Well said Fasty, a decent chap. ;)
Me too.
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;) very kind sir
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I admit,im far from a great business man,but then i dont want to be.Im too generous,and possess a conscience
Well said Fasty, a decent chap. ;)
Me too.
I'm assuming that you two are joking?
To be a succesful businessman you've got to be hard nosed and ruthless.
Do you honestly think that your customers give a monkeys if you can pay your motgage, provide for your kids, pay your bills etc...
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I'm assuming that you two are joking?
To be a succesful businessman you've got to be hard nosed and ruthless.
Do you honestly think that your customers give a monkeys if you can pay your motgage, provide for your kids, pay your bills etc...
Not at all.
It's not that sort of business.
It's a an honest working class profession.
I despise hard nosed ruthless people.
They're the ones who drive like inconsiderate numptys, and never thank anyone for anything.
Why not go to work in a suit if that's their attitude?
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I'm assuming that you two are joking?
To be a succesful businessman you've got to be hard nosed and ruthless.
Do you honestly think that your customers give a monkeys if you can pay your motgage, provide for your kids, pay your bills etc...
Not at all.
It's not that sort of business.
It's a an honest working class profession.
I despise hard nosed ruthless people.
They're the ones who drive like inconsiderate numptys, and never thank anyone for anything.
Why not go to work in a suit if that's their attitude?
Sorry Rog, my post was meant to be helpful. I didn't expect to get abuse.
Ok i'll put it another way, if you haven't got the numpty attitude, good luck and i sincerely hope your window clenaing round gives you a good standard of life.
Arthur
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Do you honestly think that your customers give a monkeys if you can pay your motgage, provide for your kids, pay your bills etc...
Exactly.
Anyone who thinks their customers give a 4X should ask themselves how many clients come round to pay them when they haven't turned up because they're running late.
When anybody mumps that I'm late, normally because of bad weather, I ask them what happened to my get well card! In a jokey fashion of course, but the message sometimes gets across.
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I have worked for Very wealthy businessmen,and they all have been arrogant,inconsiderate,rude,tight fisted bell ends.Maybe i have been unlucky on the ones i have met.It is just their out and out greed,and thirst for power that does my head in.These people are thick skinned,and overly obsessed with money,to the point of neglecting what really is important in their lives.I think you need a balance
By the way i am talking about real money men
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Well Gerry there you've said it " real money men" be honest, wouldn't you like to be in there position with all off what they've got?
Going into business for yourself surely means you want to make as much money as is humanly possible?
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Yes i do mate,but i dont like taking the mick out of people,like some employers do to their employees.Im just too soft.There is a part of me that wants to eventually have people doing the work for me,but it doesnt dominate my thoughts like it does some.Some people judge a man on what he earns,or what motor he drives etc etc.Ive never really been like that.Dont get me wrong,i do like a bit of luxury here and there,but my main concern is my happiness
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Well Gerry there you've said it " real money men" be honest, wouldn't you like to be in there position with all off what they've got?
With only two employees, I've carved out quite a nice life for myself. I have to say that the majority of "real money men" that I've met have definitely got the blinkers on - long hours at work, maybe 6 or 7 days a week and anything outside of that is a distraction. The wife they seem to have picked up along the way runs the "hotel", and any kids get in the way of the telly if they're trying to relax with a 24hr news channel.
Going into business for yourself surely means you want to make as much money as is humanly possible?
See above. I'm comfy now, and because any excess funds haven't been pee'd up against a wall, I'm more than comfy for the future. But part of that was being in the right place at the right time, realising it, and being able to do something about it.
There are always pluses and minuses - because of the frequency of the work, I can't take as much time off as I'd really like. But come the revolution . . .
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Hey, my experience has lead me down the road of being a one person window cleaner to a business person with 5 workers.
I say workers because I sub out my accounts; (about 300).
I resorted to hiring people when I developed tendinitis(tennis elbow) in both arms. Really did not have a choice. I did cortisone shots, arm bands, exercises, etc. It finally got really bad and I started slowly hiring help.
Once you go in this direction you really can't turn back. Management is a full time job. When you do clean windows you have 2 jobs and the management part suffers if you become a laborer again for long.
Boy am I glad I did this about 10 years ago because when my son died I crawled into a mental cave for at least 6 months. Could not work.
Thank God I had a decent staff at that time because I floated along financially OK.
I too learned everything about business from the school of hard knocks because my education was in the teaching field.
Never did teach. Began window cleaning to help a friend; liked it and never looked back.
From time to time I have thought what a pain in the *** dealing with workers; but you get used to it and develop better methods of screening, hiring, etc. The business part is also learned as you go.
I always remember to treat others the way I would like to be treated. It keeps things real.
Best to get advice if possible if you are going in that direction. I would highly recommend becoming a business person as well as a laborer if window cleaning is a long term goal.
I have operated my business from my bed when I was ill; on the phone.
Anything is possible if you want it and aren't afraid to work for it.
Now I am rambling; but I am serious.
Hugs, :-*
Texas Girl
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Debbie. I am very sorry to hear about your tragedy but your story just goes to help illustrate my point exactly.
I can't imangine what you went through but it would have been a lot worse if you also lost the ability to earn as well. By the way I've seen Decembers calendar pic and have written to Santa to ask him for what you have under your tree for Xmas :P ;D
Art. You do not have to be ruthless to succeed in business. Firm yes but the minute you lose the human touch you are heading for a very sad and lonely time.
I am no walk over as a few have found out over the years but I am not ruthless. It gives me a lot of satisfaction having staff and subbies who have been with me for many years who will go the extra mile for me if needed. In any walk of life you meet good and bad and with staff its particularly pertinent. Many will try to screw you over and with me if that happens once they are gone.
It's my experience that a lot drift into wondow cleaning because in reality they are unemployable. Anyone who employs staff on this forum will feel the same I am sure.
I have a great bunch who work for me. I appreciate them and they know it. Take today for instance. Its my favourite day of the month. I am off in a few minutes to get on the tools with the lads to clean the windows of a Hospice for free. We do it every month and no-one gets paid for it but I am never short of volunteers to get it done. Afterwards we all get off to a nice greasy Joes for a good old cholesterol hit and then to the pub for a few. :)
Rich. << In more ways than one hopefully the things that really count. :)
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i work for my self.but i work for a company ther work ther unifourm ther van ther contracts it is a pain in the rear.its ther rules i have to do what they want.when they want .they want ur phone to be on 24 hours a day.if they phone u have to be ready.it is not for me and next year time for a change. the now iam a window cleaner. :)
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I'm assuming that you two are joking?
To be a succesful businessman you've got to be hard nosed and ruthless.
Do you honestly think that your customers give a monkeys if you can pay your motgage, provide for your kids, pay your bills etc...
Not at all.
It's not that sort of business.
It's a an honest working class profession.
I despise hard nosed ruthless people.
They're the ones who drive like inconsiderate numptys, and never thank anyone for anything.
Why not go to work in a suit if that's their attitude?
Sorry Rog, my post was meant to be helpful. I didn't expect to get abuse.
Sorry Art, I wasn't aiming it at you, it's just hard to get things across on a page sometimes. :-\
No, I just don't like self-important prats who push others aside to get what they want.
I just don't tolerate it.
If any window cleaner with that attitude steals my work he'll be introduced to brake fluid and nails. >:(
Also, for every account taken I'll undercut 2 of his. ;)
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I always think self employment means you are a businessman, if you are responsible for finding your own work and paying your own taxes you are in business.
Doug if you gave up getting a wage packet 20 years ago you are a businessman and a good one at that, 20 years in self employment is a long time, there are so many people never manage half that time and give up and go back to being employed.
As for being hard headed and ruthless, yes and no. In your business day you need to take no bull, that does not mean you need to be cold or ruthless, treat others as they treat you is the way I work it, I give a guarded benefit of doubt but if someone takes a lend you let them know your feelings if they want to here it or not, they do it again and you hammer them.
Remember it is your busness that feeds your family and any direct harm to your business is direct harm to the benefits you pass to your family. If you were getting a wage packet every week you wouldnt let strangers take a handfull of your cash when ever they felt like it.
Now thats the business day, what your like in your personal life is completely different, my kids rap me round there little fingers, thats when they dont have there hands in my pockets, my wife gets just about everything she wants (within reason and cash allowing ) i like to think i bend over backwards to help friends out when ever i can.
I am a completely different person at home to what I am at work, and I learnt that the hard way along time ago when i first started out in self employment, I neglected my family to work every hour god sent, I looked upon business coleagues and employees as friends and they took the p*ss and cost me hundreds of thousands. It was not in my nature to say no to anyone, but you soon learn that people will exploit that in you. Now I can stand face to face with anyone and take it as far as they want to go with it, thats business :)
I guess what im saying is you can be a good business man without being a a tw*t, also remember there are plenty of of nasty tw*ts who arnt business men.
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Mmmm.....
Anyone who is self employed is a businessman, who a good a one is another matter entirely!
Of the local window cleaners that i know of, Roy Harding is to me what a successful business man is all about.
He is efficient, his books are always up to date, and he's up for early retirement in a few years.
Roy understands the 'business' side of things, he is also very professional in the way he conducts himself, he is a good window cleaner, and plainly a good salesman (you should see some of the accounts he has :'()
He understands the difference between turnover and income.
I envy Roy and admire him too, I could never be as efficient and organised as he is, don't get me wrong, I'm very good at what I do, but my book keeping is appalling :o
I'll never be able to retire early, my pension is next to useless, I'll have to work till I droop unfortunately :'(
Most window cleaners treat their turnover as their income....I'll bet very, very few of you work off a business bank account, and have an income paid into your personal bank account...
Where window cleaning is concerned, were you a business man, you would do so...and no...I don't either :-\...sigh :-[
Ian
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how many cups off tea do u get offered at a high end clients
exsatly they have lost touch with there human side
i did one thursday there he had just bought anouther factory worth millions ,and said to me i will have a few glasses of champagne tonight ......
this house to put you in the picture is £180 pounds a clean
he was floating round all day with a guy that came from l,pool from the hsbc bank,,,
did the prat offer any of us a cuppa
this really pes me off
i dont care how big i get but if any worker does work in my house they get fed and a cuppa tea even if the maid has to make it ,,, its one of my pet hates
probably would sit up that night in front of the painted potrate of him self in his suspenders and gimp mask
while his kids are at boarding school and wife in there villa in portugal getting one from a butler
there he is sharing his moment of glory by him self not with his family but instead rubbing baby oil all over him self in front of the mirror
i will stick with my feet firmly planted thank you
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Hi Shammy
That's a vivid imagination you have there.
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A lot of true points though.
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Shammy - you're taking £180 off some guy for cleaning his windows AND you want a cup of tea - seriously mate, I wouldn't care about a cup of tea - we hardly ever get offered a cuppa, maybe happens once a month.
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Shammy
You sure about the gimp mask, I think blokes that have all the power tend to be the big babbies when they get home, the big nappies and bottles.
I think my old boss used to!!
Marc
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how many cups off tea do u get offered at a high end clients
exsatly they have lost touch with there human side
i did one thursday there he had just bought anouther factory worth millions ,and said to me i will have a few glasses of champagne tonight ......
this house to put you in the picture is £180 pounds a clean
he was floating round all day with a guy that came from l,pool from the hsbc bank,,,
did the prick offer any of us a cuppa
this really pes me off
i dont care how big i get but if any worker does work in my house they get fed and a cuppa tea even if the maid has to make it ,,, its one of my pet hates
probably would sit up that night in front of the painted potrate of him self in his suspenders and gimp mask
while his kids are at boarding school and wife in there villa in portugal getting one from a butler
there he is sharing his moment of glory by him self not with his family but instead rubbing baby oil all over him self in front of the mirror
i will stick with my feet firmly planted thank you
good post, im happy with my lot and dont need to change much
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Mmmm.....
Anyone who is self employed is a businessman, who a good a one is another matter entirely!
Of the local window cleaners that i know of, Roy Harding is to me what a successful business man is all about.
He is efficient, his books are always up to date, and he's up for early retirement in a few years.
Roy understands the 'business' side of things, he is also very professional in the way he conducts himself, he is a good window cleaner, and plainly a good salesman (you should see some of the accounts he has :'()
He understands the difference between turnover and income.
I envy Roy and admire him too, I could never be as efficient and organised as he is, don't get me wrong, I'm very good at what I do, but my book keeping is appalling :o
I'll never be able to retire early, my pension is next to useless, I'll have to work till I droop unfortunately :'(
Most window cleaners treat their turnover as their income....I'll bet very, very few of you work off a business bank account, and have an income paid into your personal bank account...
Where window cleaning is concerned, were you a business man, you would do so...and no...I don't either :-\...sigh :-[
Ian
Ian.
I'm still trying to work out if that was a Freudian slip in your post or if that's what you meant to write ;D
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better a cuppa than having to hold his baby oil lol ;D ;D ;D
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better a cuppa than having to hold his baby oil lol ;D ;D ;D
I'm still trying to work out what's so wrong with baby oil ;D
I'm so narcissistic, I even reply to my own posts.
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Definately a business!!
Oh and Rog, cheers for the generalisation about suits, I wear one to work!!
What does it matter how you percieve your self as long as whatever you are doing keeps you in pocket and happy?
There are do'ers, there are dreamers, there are employers, there are employees, we are all the same people we just have different takes on what we what out of life.
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When I first started out I was a 1 man operation, now I employ my son and next week we are putting another van on the road and employing a fulltime canvasser/window cleaner.
I consider myself to not only being a window cleaner but also a business man.
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Mmmm.....
Anyone who is self employed is a businessman, who a good a one is another matter entirely!
Of the local window cleaners that i know of, Roy Harding is to me what a successful business man is all about.
He is efficient, his books are always up to date, and he's up for early retirement in a few years.
Roy understands the 'business' side of things, he is also very professional in the way he conducts himself, he is a good window cleaner, and plainly a good salesman (you should see some of the accounts he has :'()
He understands the difference between turnover and income.
I envy Roy and admire him too, I could never be as efficient and organised as he is, don't get me wrong, I'm very good at what I do, but my book keeping is appalling :o
I'll never be able to retire early, my pension is next to useless, I'll have to work till I droop unfortunately :'(
Most window cleaners treat their turnover as their income....I'll bet very, very few of you work off a business bank account, and have an income paid into your personal bank account...
Where window cleaning is concerned, were you a business man, you would do so...and no...I don't either :-\...sigh :-[
Ian
Ian.
I'm still trying to work out if that was a Freudian slip in your post or if that's what you meant to write ;D
Shiner, to begin with it was a typo....but I thought it more apt than 'drop'!
With my domestic stuff, there are just a couple who'll make me a cuppa, In a one of the pubs I do I often get offered a drink, and in a couple of the offices I do, one or two of the secretaries often makes me a cuppa too..
But there aren't that many, and If they all offered cups of tea or coffee you'd never get any work done!!
Being a good business man does not mean being some fish-eyed, hardnosed son-of-B.
It means understanding your job, it's market, knowing and identifying your personal strengths and weaknesses.
People skills are vital, and a good business man will be right up on the fiscal side of his business.
And so on and so on, most of us simply go out, do our job, collect the money, pay it in the bank to pay the bills with and deal with things as and when they crop up.
We do ok, its a pretty simple setup being a window cleaner if you are a one man band isn't it.
But the sky is the limit if you have what it takes...
Ian