Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: julianbiggs on December 06, 2006, 10:02:04 pm
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Hi guys ..ive been offered a really big contract...only problem is the guy before did it all WFP and did a rubbish job...only there for less than half the time of trad and apparently left spots all over the windows...flooded all the paths and did not touch the sills or frames. I am trad and can happily do this work..this makes me ask..
Why do you WFP boys bang on about it being sooooooo much better than trad ?
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All the best to you sir happens with us a lot but i'm clad you asked the question....
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Because if used right it is :o
Andy
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Because if used right it is :o
Andy
I agree.
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yes i have to agree if used correctly wfp can do a great job .
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Yeah, but not better.
Most of the time not as good.
Most people other than wfp users will tell you that.
You can see for yourself the finish isn't as good,
but...
I'm considering wfp myself, but I'll never say it's as good.
It's just less effort, that's what interests me, because I'm lazy.
It's a lazy man's tool, and at the moment I'm grafting. :(
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Yeah, but not better.
Most of the time not as good.
Most people other than wfp users will tell you that.
You can see for yourself the finish isn't as good,
but...
I'm considering wfp myself, but I'll never say it's as good.
It's just less effort, that's what interests me, because I'm lazy.
It's a lazy man's tool, and at the moment I'm grafting. :(
i consider myself a good WC'er doing it the tradional way
i have to agree, when i do downstairs ( trad ) i know its 99 % VERY GOOD
upstairs is done WFP and i know they are clean, but you still get the odd run of dirty water spots ( you know what i mean, a line of a few spots that dry dirty ) or it doesnt get of the odd bit of spider / fly poo
and Before the knockers start, ive been using WFP near 3 years now, so know how it works
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It's just less effort
I wouldn't agree with that at all... On some houses WFP can be more awkward and take more effort than using a ladder.
Andy
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Yeah, but not better.
Most of the time not as good.
Most people other than wfp users will tell you that.
You can see for yourself the finish isn't as good,
but...
I'm considering wfp myself, but I'll never say it's as good.
It's just less effort, that's what interests me, because I'm lazy.
It's a lazy man's tool, and at the moment I'm grafting. :(
A lazy mans tool?
I'd say it's a smart mans tool.
If you want to dig a trench, do you get out your shovel and pickaxe and graft?
Or get a JCB and do it with that?
Does a farmer still go around fields grafting away stacking small bales by hand? Or cutting fields of corn with a scythe??
Don't make the mistake of thinking that WFP is the lazy mans tool, it isn't, it's merely a more efficient way of getting more work done.
If I was being really pedantic I could claim quite truthfully that WFP leaves the glass cleaner than trad, trad leaves behind a residue that is sticky at the microscopic level, WFP doesn't.
I am not going to though, Rog is for the most part being pedantic in the other direction.
How good a job you do depends on several factors, your experience and skill level, the type of glass, the type of frames and the weather.
You may be able to WORK in conditions that you couldn't with trad (High winds and driving rain for instance) but you will most certainly do a poor job with WFP if you do.
Generally WFP does a far more thorough job than trad, frames and sills can all be washed down at the same time as the glass and you will still be far quicker than a trad guy just doing the glass and sills.
The guy who was doing this job (in the topic) was obviously doing a crap job...he just wasn't any good with WFP.
Some people seem to think there is nothing to it, you just rub a brush over the glass and move on....not so, not by a long way...
Work beckons.....60 mph winds and WFP....oh joy :-\....sigh :'(
Ian
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I'm trying to work out how someone who works three days a week can call someone lazy. I use WFP AND probably work an average of 4 days a week. I must be a right dosser. ;D
The truth is that none of us on here are truly lazy. Some may choose to work part-time for a full time income and there is nothing wrong with that. Others may choose to invest in equipment that makes their work easier. Nothing wrong with that either. Yet others may choose to do both. The real point is that we don't sit back and expect others or the state to do it for us. Even those who choose to employ people and make profit from others' labour are not lazy either. It takes a lot of hard graft to build up a business to that degree.
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Hi guys ..ive been offered a really big contract...only problem is the guy before did it all WFP and did a rubbish job...only there for less than half the time of trad and apparently left spots all over the windows...flooded all the paths and did not touch the sills or frames. I am trad and can happily do this work..this makes me ask..
Why do you WFP boys bang on about it being sooooooo much better than trad ?
Congratulations on what appears to be your first 5 figure contract.
For every bad job with WFP you come across you can find just as many bad traditional jobs??? It really is that simple.
WFP is not magic, its not some clever self cleaning wand, its a tool of the trade that just like any other if used badly will give bad result?
We have several contracts in this bracket and the biggest focus point is H&S. I guarentee when you look for the next step up in contract value they don't care about your cleaning technique but will scrutinise your methods, H&S and Safety policies. You will now experience on some sites ladders are not permitted.
Its not the WFP boy's you should be looking at but more like the guy in Germany who has sanctioned this Directive and directly affected the working process of thousands of window cleaners?
Good luck on your new contract.
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Just a word of warning, be careful of putting all your eggs in one basket, if possible don't ditch any of your other work until you are certain that this contract is a perminent one. Oh & be careful of companies that want to renew your contract on a yearly basis, the chances are they will probably look for cheaper quotes than yours, each anniversary.
I'm very pleased for you but in my experience I would much prefer lots of small jobs than one big one.
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Not getting involved with trad/wfp argument, but acording to WAHR you can ny use ladders thet are secured at bottom and at top id=f using over 6m ladder. If an accident took place you would both be sued by HSE. Fact You have to only use aladder after considering all methods, andthe firm giiving you the 5 figure salary could be sued for corporate manslaughter.
robert t
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Not getting involved with trad/wfp argument, but acording to WAHR you can ny use ladders thet are secured at bottom and at top id=f using over 6m ladder. If an accident took place you would both be sued by HSE. Fact You have to only use aladder after considering all methods, andthe firm giiving you the 5 figure salary could be sued for corporate manslaughter.
robert t
Correctamondo!!
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Not getting involved with trad/wfp argument, but acording to WAHR you can ny use ladders thet are secured at bottom and at top id=f using over 6m ladder. If an accident took place you would both be sued by HSE. Fact You have to only use aladder after considering all methods, andthe firm giiving you the 5 figure salary could be sued for corporate manslaughter.
robert t
Well said!
;D
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Not getting involved with trad/wfp argument, but acording to WAHR you can ny use ladders thet are secured at bottom and at top id=f using over 6m ladder. If an accident took place you would both be sued by HSE. Fact You have to only use aladder after considering all methods, andthe firm giiving you the 5 figure salary could be sued for corporate manslaughter.
robert t
i do not know of any commercial company who still uses window cleaners on a ladder???
Most wont and the ones that do, have a facilities manager who hasnt a clue on health and safety so they would let anyone clean their windows.
i have just spent the best part of three months aquiring safe contractor approved which most of my clients have asked for.
A big job five figure sum so thats a lot of windows..alot of windows means spending more time up a ladder than wahd will allow.
Like everyone else has said wfp will work just as good if not better than cleaning traditional.
I have just finished cleaning 50 flats every friday for the last three months for a housing developer and guess what because they are " well known " building developer ladders and squegees were not an option i asked why "health and safety" every time.
When im cleaning 3,4 storie buildings for 5,6,7 hours non stop i know which method i will be using.
And again in simple terms :
If you clean windows on a ladder by hand and you have a serious accident or fatal one you will be liable to prosecution if they prove youre risk assesment could have shown another way of cleaning them other than by ladder. "telling them you cannot afford a wfp or dont want one will not be good enough.
And im sure those with wives,partners and children will tell you that they would rather be coming home each day after using their wfp than identifying them in a morgue because they fell off a ladder to get that nice big 5 figure sum.
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Julian
Well done for getting the contract.
It could be a case of the last guy wasnt very good with a pole.
I have just took a big job off some trad guys heres why.
Windows were full of squeegie trails
frames were black,
balconies were damaged badly from the ladders
a lot of windows were never cleaned.
As you can see its all swings and round abouts, some you win some you lose
Dave
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Thanks for all the those positive comments guys...can i just say there is no work higher than first storey windows on houses...They just happen to be between £500,000 and £700,000 houses and there are 25 of them!!!!
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Are you getting £10000 to clean 25 houses?
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Yes...But we have to clean each of them 3 times. So 75 cleans in total.
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That seems a good deal
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Really good deal, they dont come along very often.
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Yeah it's a great deal..had to do some serious " networking" you know, keeping in touch with the site managers over a period of many months before the building started. The best thing is the houses are only ( and i'm not kidding) about 400 yards from where i live. I can actually see the showhome from our bedroom window!!
Also, my business cards have gone in all the "new home starter packs" which the developers give to each new home owner...usual stuff about local contact numbers.
Should hopefully get some new customers from that too...
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Julian, are you CIS registered? Check out with the company offering the contract if you need to be, as this could lead to a big delay and agro when payment is due. If you are cleaning them 3 times are you negotiating payments for each time you clean or one final payment? Just be careful if these houses are not yet sold you could be looking at monhts before you receive any money!
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Helen, you don't need to be CIS registered for window cleaning for builders, what we do is outside of the building regs.
Window cleaning is not deemed part of the construction process.
Regards,
Ian
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Well clearly it depends on who the builders are and how they read the regs.
We have done loads of work for Kings Oak who are part of the Barrett empire and they insisted we got CIS.
Whilst I agree that window cleaning might not appear to be part of the 'Construction Process' whilst it is a building site the CIS payment scheme applies.
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Not to the taxman it doesn't ;)
Ring him and check for yourself ;)
but if you are doing a lot of work for big builders, then it doesn't hurt to be registered...its a great way of saving and paying your tax bill, do enough of that work and you'll probably get a rebate at the end of your tax year.
Ian
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This should be of some help as the cis scheme is changing a bit in april 2007
http://www.new-cis.com/
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just had a constuction clean i needed a cis
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Well clearly it depends on who the builders are and how they read the regs.
We have done loads of work for Kings Oak who are part of the Barrett empire and they insisted we got CIS.
Whilst I agree that window cleaning might not appear to be part of the 'Construction Process' whilst it is a building site the CIS payment scheme applies.
Even though i do have cis i have to say that i also have done a lot of cleaning for barratt homes,i told them you dont need cis for outside cleaning and after checking found i was right.
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Julian,
Way to go with that great marketing strategy!!!!! :o It just goes to show that if you want to "catch a fish" you must put out the "BAIT".
Congratulations! Everyone should pay attention to what helped you get this contract. You are focused on good marketing techniques.
This is an awesome accomplishment!
Hugs,
Texas Girl :-*
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Julian,
Way to go with that great marketing strategy!!!!! :o It just goes to show that if you want to "catch a fish" you must put out the "BAIT".
Congratulations! Everyone should pay attention to what helped you get this contract. You are focused on good marketing techniques.
This is an awesome accomplishment!
Hugs,
Texas Girl :-*
I reckon he sent the site manager your calendar pics ;D
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Yes i do have a CIS card....the building company ( which is a big one ) asked to see it, as well as my H & S policy, method statements and risk assesments. I wasn't even allowed onsite until they had received all of these.
In answer to a previous question i was sent the site plans for every single property so sat up for some very late nights working out how much to charge them...obviously had to get a good balance between making it worth my while and not pricing myself out of the market. It obviously worked.
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Yes i do have a CIS card....the building company ( which is a big one ) asked to see it, as well as my H & S policy, method statements and risk assesments. I wasn't even allowed onsite until they had received all of these.
In answer to a previous question i was sent the site plans for every single property so sat up for some very late nights working out how much to charge them...obviously had to get a good balance between making it worth my while and not pricing myself out of the market. It obviously worked.
So you had to do the risk assessment BEFORE you could enter the site? That seems to diminish the value of it. Although you could do a generic one, didn't they want a more site specific one?
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Its quite strange but i still have not been asked to produce a risk assessment for any of my jobs.
I do a lot of commercial and blocks of flats, also some building site work.
A cis card is only required if you clean the inside of a new build as outside cleaning is exempt
Dave
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No i just used my generic one...I was allowed on site just not allowed to do any work until they had received these.
Can anyone explain in simple terms the use and benefit of me giving them my CIS card from a tax perspective ??
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No i just used my generic one...I was allowed on site just not allowed to do any work until they had received these.
Can anyone explain in simple terms the use and benefit of me giving them my CIS card from a tax perspective ??
I believe the difference is that they would have to pay you in full allowing you to make interest on the tax money until you paid it out. The other way, they retain the tax money, pay it to the taxman at some point, and you claim it back eventually. I'm not clear on timescales though.
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Hey Shiner;
;D
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Just a word of warning, be careful of putting all your eggs in one basket, if possible don't ditch any of your other work until you are certain that this contract is a perminent one. Oh & be careful of companies that want to renew your contract on a yearly basis, the chances are they will probably look for cheaper quotes than yours, each anniversary.
I'm very pleased for you but in my experience I would much prefer lots of small jobs than one big one.
perminent ;D
I will say no more now, except dont ever correct someone on a forum ;)
ProPole
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Hey Shiner;
;D
Hiya Debbie.
Nice calendar pics. ;D