Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: trevor perry on December 04, 2006, 08:11:35 pm
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I was just wondering how long it will be before d.i.y. shops start to sell small di resin canisters that can fit straight to a tap combined with a cheap pole and brush and if this happens will people start to clean their own windows, i was looking on ebay at various parts and these could be made for around £25 ,surely in the past people have not wanted to clean their own windows because they dont like ladders but do you think this will now change.
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They already make them, I have a customer with one, he just uses it between professional cleans, so I don't think there is any need to worry.
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they do 1
ionics will sell you a 5 K system that will change your life
then sell your customers a "home kit" ::) ::) ::)
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Hi,Ionics do one or did not sure if they still do it,but to youre question...No.
Mankind is lazy,and will invent things to make life easier for ourselves,vacum cleaners have been around for ages but people would rather employ someone else to do it rather than do it themselves,were all like that,which is good ;D ;D
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Ionics already sell them too .... at a price though & it will take you some time to save on your regular pro clean when you take into consideration resin useage and wear and tear
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How often do you clean your own windows?
I only do it when I can't take the nagging any more (Sunday morning they were done, 4 months I held out for), I am seriously thinking of taking on the next cleaner that canvases or flyers through my door.
Marc
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i pressure wash drive ways in the summer ...
pressure washers have been out ages.
we reach the parts other lesser mortals cant be bothered with,,
the list of services people could do themselves is endless.
.cleaning
.ironing
oven cleaning.
car washing
window cleaning
facia cleaning
gutter cleaning
washing (launderette)
but they dont or cant so here we are
GARY.
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It wont happen.
Customers may buy a cheap pole but when the resin runs out they wont want to buy any more resin so will use tap water and think what a waste of time.
Or
They will be all enthusatic for the first clean,1 hour later ohhhh my stiff neck, my arms are killing me and the windows look rubbish,I cant get them clean like my w/cleaner used to. Oh hell I am not ging to use that pole again well sell it on Ebay.
Nel.
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Why spend thousands on just one machine for one van
when you could have 2 or 3 vans diy for the same dosh ;)
Tristan
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Graham, you must be joking.
I can't believe people will pay thousands for a simple machine to pump pure water out of a brush.
The big players in WFP systems started by cleaning windows just like us, and then thought of an easier way to make money.
Ah well, as they say,a fool and his money are soon parted. Dai
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Image talks!!
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I'll second that
but who unless your into WFP knows who ionics is?
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i like the look of thier systems and i may invest in one when i get a newer van, but i will also look elsewhere, i quite like the look of some of brodex stainless steel ones
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Image talks!!
a interesting point, and yes it does
BUT i dont understand why people dont build there own image instead of advertising another company ?? ?? ??
i hear vehicle wrapping will be the new must have item soon
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thats a bit like saying " why buy a brand new BMW when you could get 3 KIAs!"
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i must i never understood slapping a big ionic logo on the side of your van and have your company name smaller above it! ;D
theres a few guys round here with it, i'd rather have my own logo above thiers any day of the week
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sorry reach and wash logo
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Im not tring to start a heated debate here nor am I putting down D.I.Y.
But on big commercial and blue chip contracts what chance does a guy with a backpack or trolley working out of a 1990 rusted ford escort estate have against a real professinal looking company, lovley shinny van and cream top of the range system.
Why do I see the words Reach and Wash on loads of your websites and van's etc or even words that asscociate with it, Its because you know and want the image a top notch system has!
Fair enough 000 out of a pole does the same job, BUT IMAGE TALKS!!!
ProPole
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come on Pro, i'm with you on the image front, but the only people you impres having an ionics system is other window cleaners cause no general public will care what system is in your van
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If i buy one myself it will be because it performs and is value for money because thats whats important
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thats a bit like saying " why buy a brand new BMW when you could get 3 KIAs!"
I dissagree,whichever system you use or buy the end result is the same.......Pure water......
Pure Water whether its Ionics,Pure,Concept 2o or DIY is the same,the only difference is the shape,colour and price of the unit.....
If its Image youre talking about,then there is a difference.....
A New van with youre own logo on it looks far better than a clapped out van.....
Youre Stationary/Flyers are also important,they should look pro. made even if there not,
You could go on and on.......BUT Pure Water is Pure Water no matter who makes it.....
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WOW WOW Fellas ;D ;D ;D
For what I see van systems being sold for by other suppliers, I can tell you that my Reach and Wash System was not much dearer than most of these water fed pole systems I see being sold by most.
However mine is crash tested that is worth every extra penny to me its also very well made, never lets me down and I can boast and legally brandish the Reach and Wash TM the marketing power of that alone in the right hands can demolish any competition hands down especially the little guy in the rust heap 1977 vaxuall nova with backpack
I dont expect many of you to understand so say what you want back, I can take it ;D.
ProPole
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WOW WOW Fellas ;D ;D ;D
For what I see van systems being sold for buy other suppliers, I can tell you that my Reach and Wash System was not much dearer than most of these water fed pole systems I see being sold by most.
However mine is crash tested that is worth every extra penny to me its also very well made, never lets me down and I can boast and legally bradish the Reach and Wash TM the marketing power of that alone in the right hands can demolish compition hands down, I dont expect many of you to understand so say what you want back, I can take it ;D.
ProPole
Ok Pro if its so powerful
how many contracts (honestly) have you got through having use of the Reach and washTM? that you couldn't of got any other way
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A few dont you worry about that matey ;D ;D
I have won contracts and blue chip ones too, by tender that is and at the mere age of twenty, I’m not talking over the other local shiner either I’m talking real tender. My system maybe, my comprehensive safety policies and procedures maybe. But I’m sure the hopeful’s were no were near my standard, or just didn’t come close to match the Pro ;D
Next year im going to clean up round these parts, not many stand a
chance ;D ;D
ProPole
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but still not on your system, i'm not up for a argument its all with in my interest for the future as if this is some magical power of getting contracts then i want in, but all practices that we/I put in when go for tender is not based on what reach and wash...oops sorry...water fed pole system i use ;) i personally have just landed what could potentially be huge and not once did my system come into play, my method, insurances & Health and safety practices obviously did...thats what got me in there
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Pro Pole.
I like your attitude to business. You seem to be a real go getter but really you would do far better building your own branding than someone elses which in fact is exactly what you have paid to do.
That certain logo wont have got you one pennies worth of work. OK it looks pro and I imagine your vehicle does and of course yourself.
Matt was right. Van wraps are becoming more widespread because of the impact they have. I choose to have them but ONLY to build my own branding and no-one elses.
Yes XXXX is good kit but really in this day and age there is just as good out there at much more reasonable prices. Yes be proud of yourself and your business but dont for a minute be fooled into thinking that XXXX makes any difference at all to whether you get any work or not.
Keep up the enthusiasm and .. sometimes the bolshy attitude. It will stand you in good stead for years to come but you will also learn a few hard lessons along the way.
Keep it up though You remind me of myself many.. too many years ago. :)
Rich.
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matt would love an ionic system and and new van but that might involve committment and getting off his whining lazy a**e to actually do some work.
" oh i only work 3 days a week my own time is much more precious"
the times i've heard that on this site. please !
You can feel the under current of envy and jelousy towards those fellas that have top class gear and new vans and.............put in the graft to be able to afford it and make a good living.
face facts, you dont have a business you have a part time job, so cut out the snide remarks and let people who want to move on do so.
Where have you suddenly spung from to be making remarks like that about Matt? ::)
He's helped a lot of people arond here get kitted out and provided a lot of useful information regarding wfp.
If he chooses to work less and spend time designing systems then fair play to him.
That's more of a business than you've got.
No-one's jealous of you if you've got a flash system.
Not me for a start.
I work hard by hand not wfp, and I guarantee I can at least match any of your work and get more respect for it.
If choose to get wfp Matt will be an invaluable person to consult.
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matt would love an ionic system and and new van but that might involve committment and getting off his whining lazy a**e to actually do some work.
" oh i only work 3 days a week my own time is much more precious"
the times i've heard that on this site. please !
You can feel the under current of envy and jelousy towards those fellas that have top class gear and new vans and.............put in the graft to be able to afford it and make a good living.
face facts, you dont have a business you have a part time job, so cut out the snide remarks and let people who want to move on do so.
Where have you suddenly spung from to be making remarks like that about Matt? ::)
He's helped a lot of people arond here get kitted out and provided a lot of useful information regarding wfp.
If he chooses to work less and spend time designing systems then fair play to him.
That's more of a business than you've got.
No-one's jealous of you if you've got a flash system.
Not me for a start.
I work hard by hand not wfp, and I guarantee I can at least match any of your work and get more respect for it.
If choose to get wfp Matt will be an invaluable person to consult.
why thank you kind sir :) and i mean that, the genuine people like you, make my contribution to this board worthwhile
Oh and just out of interest he hasnt suddenly just sprung from anywhere, he has been on here for 26 months and made 32 posts (most of them jibes at me and/or DIY systems ) he is just the type of person helpfull message boards like this need ::) ::)
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the whole image thing for comercail contracts is a little OTT though
as you could turn up to meet the client in a nice car and a suit, they would be equally impressed with that, afterall does your client really care if you have a ionics system or a supersonics system ?? ?? ?? not really
so the "professional" look can just a easilly be achived by a nice car and a "top-shop suit" and pair of new shiney shoes (any1 remmber the flowered up song ;D ;D ;D )
ive gone to contracts in my new car and a smart suit and got the contract, ive mentioned i use a " WFP " and showed them my shiny colour brochure and thats enough
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Anyway.... ;) do you think customers will clean their own windows soon.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Rich,
Thanks for your kind comments.
I do infact have very well designed logo and branded corporate image which obviously helps my marketing look more professional. Also I have large panels set aside for my logo and branding etc.
I have seen wraps and although I agree that they look the biz, I can’t really justify the cost of them to be honest if you really work these things out there all win win.
If xxxx sells a king650ltr for £2899 and xxx sells his royal650ltr for £4199 now if I bought royal650 and you bought the king and also wrapped it for £1200+ and I just signed mine for £150 with my colours and flag and also had my industry number one recognised logo. I would have no doubt in my Mind that I received the better deal. Thats my opinion anyway.
Rich I am sure you have a top system withing your fleet(s) ;)
Regards
Alex
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Propole - fair play to you for doing it right first time - most probably won't agree with spending x amount on an Ionics system, nor do I. However, your drive and determination are strong points so stick at it.
As for crash testing don't be mislead - they are not conclusive tests (if anyone from Ionics or otherwise doesn't agree then let them explain how conclusive a 30mph crash test is - especially when it is a generic design, and therefore will perform differently in different vehicles and conditions).
We have just has our first tank chassis built (designed by moi) and installed, I can assure you that it will cost only a fraction of what our competitors charge. The chassis is for a 900ltr tank, it has not been crash tested yet - we are looking into it and will let you know of any developments as they happen.
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Try & stick to the subject guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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propole you do well to boast of your ionics system but didn't you say some time ago that you received a grant to set your business up lots of guys will not have been fortunate enough to be in your position so cost will play a major part in their business decisions. Granted ionics is a recognised name within the industry but as far as potential customers go they tend to be intrested in weather you have a pole system not who made it. if a van is smart who can tell what system is inside it unless it is advertised on the outside.
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Let’s have this right, I never come on here singing and dancing about what system I have nor do I put down D.I.Y, I just don’t lie down and let small time merchants rubbish talk certain systems when they obviously are envious over the superior party. At the end of the day that’s what it boils down to, that’s a fact im afraid
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i don't think it is, not from where i'm reading anyway
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You have been able to buy little domestic carpet cleaning machines for years - But, that hasn't put carpet cleaners out of business!
Andy
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i think it is all down to peoples laziness and people not really doing as good job as someone doing it day in day out, it was the same when we use to valet cars, they didn't know the good products, they don't know the tricks of the trade, they try it...bodge it...then ring up guys like us to sort it out for them!
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Let’s have this right, I never come on here singing and dancing about what system I have nor do I put down D.I.Y, I just don’t lie down and let small time merchants rubbish talk certain systems when they obviously are envious over the superior party. At the end of the day that’s what it boils down to, that’s a fact im afraid
So who's putting down Ionics?
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matt ,as usual December 4 06 8.22 PM
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matt ,as usual December 4 06 8.22 PM
do you mean this post ?? ?? ??
they do 1
ionics will sell you a 5 K system that will change your life
then sell your customers a "home kit" ::) ::) ::)
i pointed out they sell a "home kit"
which i think you might find they do
is that putting down ionics ? ?? ?? ??
learn to read eh, before you make anymore silly remarks
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dearest matt,
cannot you see how bitter and sad your postings are.
"ionics will sell you a system that will change your life, then sell a customer a home kit"
you said it !
yes i can read.
what do you mean???????????? you can't help it can you ?
you didn't just say they sold a home kit, you infered that if you buy an ionics system you've been suckered in to some big advertising scam by some two faced fly by night company.
on this site it's always the diy crew on the offensive, ready to slag off any factory fitted options,.
I like Ionics gear and my new van (two years old). its about image, presentation,professionalism and basically looking the part.
When I go for a job I look the part ,act the part, and most times I get the job.
I can afford it, it makes me feel good, it makes money and thats the bottom line.
Times change ,(duh) I see window cleaners every day who look like they are stuck in the 1970's. Charging 70's prices as well. (Scrims flying from the ladder is always a goog indicator) . Well guess what some of us have moved on...(shock!!!).
Your,re very fortunate you can spend your nights drilling brush heads and making poles, I have niether the inclination nor time for such hobbies.
I v'e seen home made gear on this site. Some good , some so bad i would have to work nights. Water butts tied to sack carts........dont thinkso...
As long as some people treat this business as an easy alternative to full time employment others will reap the benefits.
If you walk like a cowboy, look like a cowboy ,chances are you are a cowboy.
yeeeeeeeha
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i've got bow legs does that make me a cowboy ;) ;D
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The only answer you can give to such a person Matt. ;D
He's got a new van and expensive kit, so he must be a good window cleaner.
Makes him look more professional you know. ;)
Tool. ;D
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Come on Rog, we know you want one ;)
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;D
If I did it wouldn't cost thousands, just so I could tell people that.
I think a few heads need to be extracted from some bottoms...;D
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back to the original topic and they wont because they cant be bothered so dont worry about it , just remember how many problems we had after changing to wfp and we are proffesionals with the knowhow of how to clean windows just think if we were novices what a mess we would make then . also most of the training for wfp for me has come from this site which my customers dont know about.
gary
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Selling WFP to domestics will not catch on, what you have to watch is selling to
the Commercial side that's when it will have an impact. The Maintenance Manager along with Accounts will soon cotton on once the likes of Ionics start to target this side.
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also most of the training for wfp for me has come from this site which my customers dont know about.
gary
My thoughts exactly Gary. When i think how i started using wfp a year ago & how i use it now, there is no way i would be were i am now, if i was on my own with out this forem. The truth is i would have proberly given up.
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i am sorry to disagree but washing windows with a pole that squirts water isnt brain surgery anyone can do it and when you think a lot of window cleaners are charging upto a pound a window the customer is bound to question its worth unless their loaded.
most people wash their own car and only get them professionally valetd maybe once a year, most people mow their own lawn and dont pay a gardner a lot of people dont really want windows cleaned every month but realise this is only way to retain a window cleaner so yes i do think there is a threat especially if someone makes a system that sells at under thirty quid .
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On the original question.
I don,t think many will clean there own.
1) How many of you clean bugalows (they don,t need a pole)
2) How many do you think will pay for £80 - £100 for a pole plus the cost of water DI ( in hard water area ) or a RO unit.
I believe most of our work is time saving service for the customer.
Ray
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i am sorry to disagree but washing windows with a pole that squirts water isnt brain surgery anyone can do it and when you think a lot of window cleaners are charging upto a pound a window the customer is bound to question its worth unless their loaded.
most people wash their own car and only get them professionally valetd maybe once a year, most people mow their own lawn and dont pay a gardner a lot of people dont really want windows cleaned every month but realise this is only way to retain a window cleaner so yes i do think there is a threat especially if someone makes a system that sells at under thirty quid .
Trevor,
There was a documentary about a year ago about the domestic cleaning industry being a boom industry nowadays.
It went along the lines of that most couples are dual income (with or without kids) and they have less time for running a home, especially since here in the UK the average employee does more hours at work than our European neighbors.
They buy take-away or ready-made food, shop on-line; have groceries delivered to their door and employ cleaners (domestic/car valets/window cleaners) to do the the mundane chores they don't have time for.
I don't think we're under-threat from customers cleaning their own windows, what-ever 'home window cleaning kits' are available.
I think it's the Kosovans and the Polish that we have to watch out for!
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I think it's the Kosovans and the Polish that we have to watch out for!
I'll go with Tosh on this one, people doing their own windows will never be a problem for us, there will always be a few who will do so, there always has, but no matter what kit they have, they rarely do as good a job as a pro can do.
The DIY WFP systems are usually DI systems, they have colour change change resin and gobble it up very quickly.
And contrary to what Trevor says, not anyone can do a good job with WFP, there are a fair few so called Pro's out there who do an awful job, and they are using it day in and day out.
It's only a semi skilled (whichever method you use) but it still takes time to learn.
Half hour every couple of months (which is all they'll end out doing it) is hardly enough to become accomplished.
They should still be able to do a good job, but it will still take them 4 times as long as a pro to acheive the same high standard...and if they are taking 4 times as long they are going to use 4 times as much resin as they need too.
If they happen to be in a hard water area they might even deplete the resin reservoir on just one clean :o
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it ;)
Now the Poles and the Kosovans are another matter :-\
Ian
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when the easten europeans catch on we will really be up against it
if people think a odd dole cheat is bad, wait till the work ethics of the easten europeans take hold, 15 hour days and happy with 5 quid a hour, not paying tax etc etc, and people who think that the bigger comercail stuff wont accept them, you will just have a " figure head from the UK " running the show