Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: HQCS (John Kastrian) on December 02, 2006, 09:25:17 pm
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Did a clean in a rental property,house had been converted to upstairs and downstairs flats,had to clean the downstairs flat carpets.
The electricity was switched off so looked under the stairs and switched all switches on,completed the clean and then switched all switches to off.
Had a call from the agent today complaining that we had not only turned off the downstairs electric but also a feed to upstairs,and the upstairs tenant was now complaining that his freezer had defrosted and wanted compensation.
The switch under the stairs was not labelled to indicate that it was for the upstairs supply,so who is at fault here?
John
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How long was it switched off for,because food in a freezer that has been switched off ( with the door kept shut) will stay frozen for up to 12 hours
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if his electric was on and you turned if off then you are too blame.
to be blunt when did you become a qualified electrician to start turning on electric, what if it was turned off for a reason.
I'd never turn on electric I'd get the householder to do it. Imagine if someone had been working on it upstairs and you turned it on :o :o :o
Mike
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Should the agent be resposible for providing water electricity etc?
I think they have some resposibility as they are being paid for lettings management.
Although if I have a problem with access to water electricity I would usually ring them up.
Could be 50 / 50 here as they left you out on a limb a little.
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If there was no indication of the comlexity of the wiring and / or no clear information / warning was issued I don't think you could be held responsible.
I'm not an electrician, but have frequently found it necessary to turn on / off power supplies in similar situations.
I'm not a gas fitter or plumber either, but , again have often found it necessary to increase the pressure in heating systems, or seek out shut off valves for water.
In the situation described the cleaner was simply carrying out normal procedures to allow him to do the work requested, by an agent, who should have informed him of any possibility of turning off a neighbours electricity, gas, or water supply.
IMO
robbie
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IMO You are
You should have noted the positions of all switches.
Changed those that you required to complete your job and then reset as you found them.
Nigel
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imo its the owners fault and prob againts the law to hav a live feed for another property in another property :o and very dangerous ::) and they should been clearly marked !!! as for frez stuff it takes at least 24 hours to defrost contents id tell them to bog off !! or i report them to the local council there is very strict controls over supply or work done on eletrics now days
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agreed, the flat upstairs should have a seperate fusebox....health and safety issue here! I think it's safe to say that any normal person would not expect a fusebox in a downstair flat to affect the upstair flat. Further, the fusebox should have been correctly marked indicating which fuses were which. I think the landlord has a lot to answer to here. Seems there's been corners cut during the alterations.
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HI
Cleaning Co is spot on here.
I do EOT cleaning all the time and you need the electric to carry out your work you have been asked to do, you are not an Electrician you had no way of knowing there was a feed to upstairs, even an electrician wouldn't know that without looking for it (or x-ray vision to look into walls)
You did your job and needed the means to carry it out, either the La or landlord should of made you aware that
A. The Electric was off in the first place
B. there was a seperate feed for upsatirs and which switch it was.
Good luck
Regards
Martin 8)
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Thanks for replies guys,even the ones with hints of sarcasm,if I was a qualified electrician I would not be earning a living pushing a wand around :)
Just to clarify a couple of points-
Electricity to downstairs flat was switched off at fusebox under the stairs and there was also a switch adjacent to the fusebox,it was this switch that led to upstairs,I know now that it was in the on position when I arrived,but of course it was switched off when I left.I do not know if it was fed directly from the fusebox or from the mains supply before the fusebox,but in my opinion it should not have been there if it was to feed another property,and in any event should have been clearly marked.I completed the job at about 3pm and the upstairs tenant had already left for work (shift worker) so did not realise there was no electricity until he got home about 10-30 pm,thinking it was a power cut he called the electricity supplier and it was they who advised him it was fed from downstairs.
I am assuming the feed was to a seperate meter in his upstairs flat,but don't know at this stage.It was not until sat morn that they got hold of the landlord to switch the power back on,so it would have been off for about 18 hrs.
Back to the subject of having to switch electricity on or off,at least those of us that work within the rental sector will know that it is very common to have to turn on elec/gas/water in vacant properties,as well as having to load elect/gas cards at times,and no I'm not a qualified plumber or gas fitter either. ::)
The agent is away until tuesday so will know more then.
John
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Dont get this problem with a TM! ;D
Phil
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I stand by what i said, I would never turn on an electric supply.
if i did rental properties I would always advise the letting agent that electric & water is required.
if they were not on, I'd not do the job.
Mike
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Phil,you would if it was dark and no leccy,unless you have some of those headmounted led lights ;D
John
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Mike,we have to agree to disagree m8 :)
I don't know how many rental props you get but we get an awful lot and it is common for the outgoing tenant or even the landlord or agent to turn off the services,usually this is not a problem,but I have learned a lesson from this and will be more careful in future.
Am still looking into the legalities of this electrical installation.
John
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i agree with mike! i also do a lot of end of tenancy and rental props and on my site surveys to quote the job in hand i always look for a water supply and and an electricity supply and always advise the letting agent or landlord that these are a must and to ensure these are on on the day of the job! if there not i charge for the inconvinence!
all the best
Will
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i think mike and will are missing the point ,regardless of a survey or not this property should not hav a live feed to another property and at best should hav had stickers/notices on each switch stating that ie switch 2 feeds the upstairs flat , what if the person upstairs had a medical prob that relied on power? and even if u surveyed the job how would u hav know that the supply was also for upstairs ? only one person at fault here and braking the law is the landlord
gary
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we have done hundreds of rental properties and have learnt this lesson before, you need to qualify with the letting agency that it is ok to switch power and water on and where each is located, otherwise it can be very dangerous, as sometimes work is in progress or been left in a precarious way.
once we turned the water on in a flat not knowing some pipes had been disconnected, fortunately caught it in time before too much damage :o
a quick flood restoration followed :)
agents are a bit thick sometimes and no matter how many jobs you do for them, they often forget the necessary things like water and electric or reasons not to touch it!
I think if you are going to flick the switch or turn anything on you need to be absolutely sure whats going to happen, otherwise you're taking a huge risk.
regards
steve
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if a letting agent asks u to clean a carpet and says heres the keys go do it u say is there power ? they say should be if not switch it on u just do it if there is a fault /havnt told u it supplys upstairs etc its on there heads period we are not sparkeys etc and do all agents even know that the landlords has done somthing in a property ? prob not, if u asked every agent to come with u to a prop 10 miles away to turn the power on they say get stuffed just turn it on and off ,in noway are we liable for anything in this situ unless its are machines /cords / or workmanship that causes a problem
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Hi all,
From what I understand is that you stated that you were aware that it was a house converted into 2 flats before entering the premises, you then stated that there was no power to the flat you needed to clean, you then found the power terminal, half of the switches must of been in the on position to power the flat above.
When you completed your work you switched all the switches to the off position.
From the evidence provided by yourself I find you guilty as charged, your punishment is to receive 50 lashes of electrical twin flex from the tenant above at 06:00hrs on the 01/01/2007. Dismissed.
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lol nice one fletch ;D
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It may not be worth trying to wriggle out of if you get lots of work. But you could always mension the fact that you thought 'self contained' means exactly that.
Ask them how this affects multiple occupancy by laws and council regs. ;)
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Just give them £50 of Iceland vouchers, but state its a good will gesture.
Put it behind you, and its tax deductable you know.
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sod the 50 quids !! lets all chuck in them open packs in our frezzers what been in since 2001 i start the ball rolling , pack 10 iceland fish fingers 2 left bit moldy but hey what the hell !! also tesco healthy living chicken curry dated 2002 , prob not so healthy now !!! lol send all donations to jhons house (carefully wrapped second class post )
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I agree its your fault as you touched it last even though you didnt mean it or if its wired wrong or whatever.
As Glynn said how much ££££££ can one have in ones freezer.
On the other hand if you dont want anymore work from these people then stick to you guns.
Mark
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Gary,at least 2 of us work in the real world :)
End of tenancy jobs are very rarely surveyed in advance,just a matter of turning up on the day asked and doing the job,it is a total waste of time to go to an empty prop just to do a survey,may as well get on and do it.
I have an excellent working relationship with the letting agents on my books and they hardly ever even ask a price.
Fletch you say that half the switches on the fusebox would be set on to feed the other flat,if you read my post again I did state that it was a seperate feed going to upstairs,and it was this single unmarked switch adjacent to the box that I switched off,I just assumed it was for the shower in the bathroom,why would one even think that it could be for another property.
Also I did not know it was a flat until I got there,l/a just gave me an address.
Have since found out that even the agent was not aware that there was a feed to upstairs.
The point made about health problems is a perfectly valid one,it should not be possible to interrupt a power supply to another property,even accidently.
John
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If your so confident that what you did was right ??? why ask for peoples opinions on this subject ??? and you did switch an on switch to an off position which was reckless and caused the guy upstairs problems.
Regards,
Fletch.
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::) i giv up !!! lol
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it would appear to me that Phil does not vac before he cleans, come to that he doesnt aggitate either, :) ;) maybe you got a vac that plugs into your cigar lighter Phil!!! ;D
Geoff
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how much is the tennant wanting anyway?
Shaun
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per usal single bloke in flat at leats 200 pounds worth of food ::)
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If your so confident that what you did was right ??? why ask for peoples opinions on this subject ??? and you did switch an on switch to an off position which was reckless and caused the guy upstairs problems.
Regards,
Fletch.
Because that's what I thought forums were for. ???
Fletch,as you have only been trading for about 3 months,you probably have not yet come across many things that we have to contend with to get the job done.
We learn every day and I have certainly learned from this incident.
John
Just forget it,I give up too :)
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my dad rents flats out to council tenants & are regularly inspected by fair rent inspectors & health inspectors ! in a block of 4 self contaned flats. i.e large house split up into 4.
the fuse boxes are all in the same cupboard & are clearly marked for safety purposes. each flat has there own box & are marked for lights & plug sockets ect.
who's to say someone else didnt flick that switch off that wasnt marked, as all the other were off !
there are 2 ways to deal with it as i see it ! goodwill those £50 vouchers someone has mentioned or forget about it !
can't see anyone chasing you through small claims for this muddle up !
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Very interesting post, I think it will make us all think if faced with a similiar situation.
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I agree Ian...........especially when working in a tower block! ;D ;D ;D