Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Neil Grainger on November 27, 2006, 05:01:07 pm
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Hi All
Had a customer send me an e-mail today to cancel a job for tomorrow. This is the secound time she has cancelled and it is a full days job worth £400.00. So I have lost 2 days work space because of her.
The last time she cancelled on the morning of the job and I did make her awhere that I will charge her if she does this again.
She has and I am very angry.
Can I do this?
Cheers
Neil
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Hi
I have one customer where i have been 5 times in all, but he was in on only 3 occasions.
Its a personal thing. Wheather you want to keep them or not.
You could send a letter beforehand stating 1/2 invoice price due if cancelled less than 24 hours.
But is it enforcable.
Dave
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I think you can reasonably charge for costs incured,if you get there and they are not in i.e. - fuel etc, & time travelling but not a penalty for lost work.
I generally charge my minimum if that happens unless they rebook straight away.
I think you can only charge a cancellation fee if you have notified them of this before hand (which is always good to do anyway).
But i could be wrong ;D
regards
steve
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This has happened to me a few times and it really p*** me off.
I often think of sending them an invoice for £40 for wasting my time.
It would be interesting to know if we would have a leg to stand on in the eye of the law. I have heard some where (may not be true) that a verbal agreement is as good as a signed agreement.
My biggest worry about making customers sign an agreement is that it might put them off and it's not worth it for the sake of the odd one off cancellation.
Another way you could always take a deposit.
Send them a bill and if they don't pay it then all it's cost you is another 5 mins of your time and a stamp.
Rob.
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i would absolutely charge them seeing as its second time, and if they dont pay the charge i would go to the small claims court, as far as the laws concerned you have every right to charge them as long as you can prove lost revenue as a direct result, no probs there. the court will back you and they will have to pay
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Had two cancel by text and one by email >:( Not a great deal you can do unless its in your terms and conditions that they have signed.
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no Steve you not got to have a signed contract, your miss informing people.
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I'm not sure a verbal agreement would stand up in court but would have to check it out?
There is a perception that verbal agreements are not enforceable. Several people have said to me, "well, we never put anything in writing so I guess there is nothing I can do".
The general rule is that verbal agreements are enforceable. There are exceptions, the most notable of which relates to agreements concerning the transfer of an interest in land.
The biggest problem with verbal agreements (also know as oral agreements) is proving them. If one person says that an oral agreement was reached and the other party denies the agreement, it may be difficult to enforce the agreement.
To be legally enforceable an agreement (oral or otherwise) must meet certain conditions. It must contain essential contractual terms; the terms must be sufficiently certain to allow for enforcement and no essential terms may be left for future agreement.
What essential contractual terms are necessary will depend on the context of the agreement. For example, an agreement of purchase and sale will have the following essential terms: who is the seller; who is the buyer; what is being sold; what is the price; when and where will delivery take place. If, for example, price is uncertain - the agreement provides that "market value" will be paid, the agreement may be unenforceable due to uncertainty. Or, if the agreement provides that the price will be agreed to later, the agreement may be unenforceable as being an "agreement to agree".
In circumstances of oral agreements, there is often disagreement between the parties on: whether the parties actually intended to contract; whether the parties agreed on any or all of the essential terms; or what the essential terms of the contract were. In the case of conflicting evidence, the court must decide what evidence to accept. Once deciding which evidence to accept, the court must then go on to decide, based on the accepted evidence, whether an enforceable contract has been proven on a balance of probabilities. The person alleging the contract carries the onus of proving the contract. A balance of probabilities generally means that the court must be satisfied that it is more likely than not that a contact exists. If the probabilities are even, the party alleging the contract will lose.
In many cases involving an oral agreement there is documentary evidence in existence. The documentation may fall short of constituting a written agreement but may still substantiate the assertion that an agreement was reached. For example there may have been draft agreements that were prepared but unsigned. Furthermore, the parties may have acted in a way that supports the assertion that an agreement was reached. The court will consider all such evidence in determining which evidence to accept and in determining whether the evidence, as a whole, establishes an enforceable agreement.
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This happens occasionally, boils your urine but just move on and never book them in again.
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Steve, your getting side tracked, you do not have to prove any 'agreement' in court, if is considered 'reasonable' or 'common business practice' then your fee will be upheld.
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If anyone remembers John Flynn, he got fed up of late cancellations so spent some time checking the law and DID find that you are legally in your rights to send a cancellation invoice, but I don't know what the legal amount is.
A verbal agreement does stand, if you have a divert to your mobile you can trace the caller by your phone bill.
Shaun
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Hi all,
Looking from another prospective can a customer claim against us if we don't make an appointment?
I think not! If I get a cancellation its normally with a reasonably valid excuse, kids taken to hospital, mothers sick, fathers on death bed etc etc........
How can you send these people a bill if the situation is real?
I tend to ask for another appointment or ask them to call back when convenient to re-book and most of the time they do.
Alright some people might be timewasters but others are genuine, I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt!
Having a days work cancelled at the last minute is frustrating but nothing compared to what the customer is possibly going through!
Not always the case but I've had a sticky patch of my own recently and have had to cancel odd appointments, none of them have asked for compensation!
Just a thought,
Kind regards,
Jason.
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jason well wrote piece
been reading this alnight and verbal agreements ect
no chance might as well like you say give a little customer service
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Customers are no different to me life happens! Three weeks ago had to pull of a job due to traffic, the verbal and I mean verbal, I received from the customer was unbelievable, I offered to re-book for Saturday, he mumble some like where the sun don’t shine ¾ of a hour later he phoned back apologies, and to rebook, since our encounter he has passed 3 jobs to me and they are very local to me.
Shaun
Remember him still have nightmares about him. (Wonder how his doing well I hope) not if they with hold the number.
Len
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Jason,
i dont normally charge a cancelation fee, even when i had custy cancel on same day 1 hour before appointment because there going to hire a machine instead :-X (we all lose alot of biz to these hire machines >:()
but in Neils case its the second time! in that case i would.
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yes so would i, and hav done
p.s craig u taken u email off? was gooner mail u
gary
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ive had 2 cancellations for today
both phoned late last night, 1 at 9pm and i at 9.45 pm
one said they could'nt afford it and the other said something had cropped up
decided to spent the day doing some marketting for jan/feb
this im sure will easily recoup the value of the jobs i've lost
of course i'm angry but much calmer than i used to be so i've even got time to take the missis for lunch and get some xmas presents bought
as far as the small claims court, well i wonder if it is worth the effot
maybe it would cost you more time sorting it out than forgetting about it and moving on
it still pi***s you off though!
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The key thing for me is to do all I can to prevent it happening in the first place, at least I have some control over that, no point crying over spilt milk.
If they appear a bit flakey I usually say ok have you got your diary/calender there? If they don't get it, I say best write it down and if for any reason you have to cancel within 24hrs there will be a cancellation fee.
Now would I follow up on that if they did cancel, no. The whole point is to cover the decision. There have been times when I didn't have the energy for something, something better came up etc. and my brain had to weigh up the consequences of changing a decision. The pain of losing money usually sways things.
Also lots of other service providers charge you if you don't turn up, dentists, solicitors is your time any less value than theirs? etc.
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Being cancelled is part of business life. It's nothing new and your not the first and certainly wont be the last cleaner it will happen to. Humans will be humans! This is just another fact of life, get used to it, get over it and move on...........
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lol some people are so happy on this site ;D
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Well, let's say it how it is!
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hang on, i have charged cancellations in the past, and got it ! ;D
its worth doing, and small claims court takes 10 mins on line,(if it has to go that far) blimey some defeatest here. also you can charge them further admin fee for having to resort to court plus they have to pay court costs, you will be better off if it does go to court!
keep this link for such times as non payers: www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
Hi Gary: gixer6@blueyonder.co.uk
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Craig, i see your point but you may do more damage than good, there's a saying ive heard, "do a good job (or please someone) and they will tell 3 people, do a bad job (p someone off) and they will tell 10", so i suppose its worth considering if your cancellation invoice will realy recoup the lost work. I normally put cancellations down to sods law and as long as i use that time for marketting i dont feel that let down, however i must admit if someone called me on the same day to cancel because they had hired a machine then Craig im with you on this one mate becuase thats just taking the p*ss.
Dene
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After much thought, I pulled away from doing this. customer threatened to report me to the Trading standards. ???
I explained the situation to them calmly without getting angry or heavy with them and they just got abusive and threatening.
If I was not busy I would go after it but as I am I just explained why I could charge them and then pulled back.
The Law is that if you can get proof that a booking is real and the customer cancels without reason within an unexceptable time then you can Charge.
Dentists do this as do some doctors, and you never sign a contract with them.
I do see the point about walking away though and the effect it could have on future business, its just that I dont do it.
Customers want it both ways, they want you on their own terms and its something we have to live with unfortuantley.
Cheers
Neil
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Hi
At the end of the day you may have had a lucky escape.
Do you really want to work for these people.
If a custy of mine cancelled by email they wouldn't be a custy.
Dave
PS Not PC i know, but women are all bonkas....................its well known.
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I'm pretty sure that from a legal standpoint all you can charge for are any items you have bought in specifically to do that particular job, ie special chemicals or whatever.