Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P®oPole™ on November 24, 2006, 03:55:00 pm

Title: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P®oPole™ on November 24, 2006, 03:55:00 pm
Hi fellas,

After knocking out 12 town houses, about four hours later, I packed away my van as you do. Went to start my van........... and nothing was happning, it was just making painfull sounding clicking noises.

Called the RAC out, I was back on road withing an hour.

Im confused as to why my battery would go dead especially when my supplier told me that my pump takes hardly any power and its fine to be wired to the battery.

The RAC guy told me that I shouldnt leave my pump on taking juice from the battery he said the engine should be left on??????? WTF

ProPole
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: ray l on November 24, 2006, 04:06:08 pm
I was told every thing would be ok with system rigged to battery.

Got caught with a flat battery, invested in a booster battery and then rigged a
split battery charge set-up

I found that when filling at home solenoid would cause a drain on battery
 before you even start work, then if your not driving far.

The split charger has definately helped and kept me working.

Ray l
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: mark6765 on November 24, 2006, 04:10:12 pm
Just got my vivaro knicked last week leaving the engine running.
Not sure if the insureance will pay out.
All my wfp equipment definately isnt coverd with my fully comp insureance.
Wish i had fitted a split charge relay to a leasure battery.
I will never leave engine running again.
It will take months to sort everything out and get back to work properly.
Im working out the back of my frontera estate with a shurflo backpak and barrels of water at the moment. which obviously isnt ideal.

Please dont be as daft as me and think it cant happen to you.

If you leave your engine running, someone will take your van, and you might not be coverd.
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: newpy on November 24, 2006, 04:12:24 pm
Split relay charge is what i've got, does the job. I give mine an extra charge on the weekends to be sure and i get through the week ok.
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P @ F on November 24, 2006, 04:13:10 pm
Its all to do with the batteries , if i am right , leisure are deep cycle and vehicle are short sharp burst .

 Rich P @ F
 
 Its ok to do if you get caught out with a flat leisure , but i would not do it all the time .

Also you might want to have your van battery checked out , it could be on the way out , and remember , the cold doesnt do them much good either .
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P®oPole™ on November 24, 2006, 04:14:23 pm
Thanks for the reply Ray,

The RAC guy told me about this extra battery set up, he said sumthing about wiring that to my battery and having it charge me second one.

Funny thing is mate, I have been getting a little trouble in the mornings latley just a little slower at starting up, and this moring I was only working down the road (2mins drive) it makes sense that this happend today.

does the fill swithch or fill process take power from the batter in the night then?




Thanks for your reply Mark,

sorry to hear of your misfortune am glad you told me that because I may of been tempted, definatley wont do that now thats for sure.

How much will this split charger cost?




Cheers Rich,

Gonna get it tested first thing tommorow.

ProPole
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: pjulk on November 24, 2006, 04:15:12 pm
I don't think van batteries are suitable for WFP.
You need a leisure battery as you will ruin your van one.

What you need is to get a leisure battery and a split charge relay and you can then forget about it.

The leisure battery will charge as you are driving and the WFP system will only draw power from your leisure battery so you will not have any problems starting your van.

Paul
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P®oPole™ on November 24, 2006, 04:16:51 pm
Thanks Paul and newpy,

How much do these split charge lesuire set ups cost, can someone with little knowledge set it up?

ProPole
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P @ F on November 24, 2006, 04:37:55 pm
Here is one , got it from MAPLINS last year £6 , and its still in the drawer  ::)

Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P®oPole™ on November 24, 2006, 04:41:25 pm
Hi Rich,

Is that the split relay, do I split it from my van battery to the lesuire? is it simple to do?

Many Thanks
ProPole
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pj on November 24, 2006, 04:42:44 pm
Get yourself an 85amp leisure battery from a caravan accessories supplier for about £40 - £50.  Get a split relay supplied and fitted by local auto electrics for about the same, £40 - £50.
End of worries.

Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P @ F on November 24, 2006, 04:45:29 pm
That my friend is the split relay , and as for fitting it easily , i dont know too much about electrics , hence why its still in the drawer !

This could be a great thread if any of you out there have fitted the same one , it did come with a fitting guide , but i did not find it very clear .

 Rich P @ F
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Davie T on November 24, 2006, 04:47:59 pm
PJ is correct.
We use 2 leisure batteries linked to each other and charged via split relay.  Touching wood, never a problem nor do we need to charge from mains.
DIY waterfed pole forum have wiring diagrams if you are up to DIY
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P®oPole™ on November 24, 2006, 04:52:27 pm
Cheers Fellas,

Might do what pj says then,

Thanks to everyone that posted, much apprcieated ;)

ProPole
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Jeff Brimble on November 24, 2006, 05:04:50 pm
I just got the Beatles " Love "album (its great)and yesterday flooded the town with music at 78 decibels. 3 hours later, 1 flat battery. Cheap jump start wires failed, one call out to the garage.
It was so good to listen too I am doing it all again, but switching the engine on now and then.
You need a lesuire battery as a back up.
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P @ F on November 24, 2006, 05:07:13 pm
HAHAHAHA , That will teach you for listening to love albums .  ;D
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Ian_Giles on November 24, 2006, 06:19:12 pm
Car batteries are not designed to be used as constant drain.

You really do need a proper leisure battery.

They do still wear out though :-\

I'm on my second and I'm having to get a new one, so that'll be my third :'(

But I do have it blasting flat out all the time (the pump that is, I like a high flowrate) and if I have a really busy day then it now begins to fade near the the end of 650 litres.

If it is fading then it means I have ran it down too far, the one thing you should not do with a leisure battery is run it down, and NEVER run it flat.

They are designed to give a constant voltage for long periods of time, if the power is fading in them, then you have taken it too far as it is no longer able to maintain that constant voltage.
If you keep doing it then you will rapidly shorten your battery life.

I've made the mistake of not having a split charge relay fitted, apparently you should still charge up the battery regularly unless you are doing substantial milage.
But I'll bet it is the difference between a battery lasting you 15 months and one lasting you 2 or 3 years :-\

If you want one fitted, check out any local tow bar fitter, they are doing it all the time for caravans and so on and it isn't that expensive to get it done.

Unless you are a dab hand at messing with your van electrics of course ;)

Ian
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: jeff1 on November 24, 2006, 07:04:43 pm
If you really need the ins and out of a split charge relay have a look at this link.

Its to big a topic to copy and paste here with a diagram of how a split charge relay is installed.

http://www.w.com/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=23&highlight=split+charge+relay
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: stuart@skypole on November 24, 2006, 07:52:15 pm
an 85amp hour battery as most leisure batteries are will sufice a pole pump runs around 7amps this will flaten a car or van battery in a day,

a second battery with a split relay charge will solve the problem, the dearer the relay the better.

a spliting diod would be better

but either will do they charge the second battery after the first is charged but you must ensure your vehicle battery is at its optimum, or the realy wont charge the second battery,

short trips will also not allow the second battery to charge

rgds
stuart

Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: advanced on November 24, 2006, 07:56:13 pm
i had same problem
 get a  varistream  the pump does not have to work as hard  , uses less juice
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: matt on November 24, 2006, 08:27:41 pm
my 85 amp leisure battery lasts me 3 or 4 days without charging

its then still 2/3 full, i never run it below that though
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: dai on November 24, 2006, 10:04:19 pm
For optimum battery life it should be recharged when it gives a meter reading of 12.05 volts. Dai
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: pjulk on November 24, 2006, 10:14:17 pm
This is the split charge relay i got.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-Split-Charge-Relay-Kit-Battery-Boat-Motorhome_W0QQitemZ280042576545QQihZ018QQcategoryZ76066QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280042576545

I have been using it now for a couple of months and i have not had to charge the battery at all.
And i don't travel that many miles as most of my work is within 5 miles of my home.

Also really easy to install.

And comes with good instructions


Paul
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mr. S on November 25, 2006, 10:33:47 am
Paul, what size battery are you using, mine is a 110amp, would i need a different relay?
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: gaza on November 25, 2006, 11:10:23 am
Ive had a split relay fitted for 4 years, and Imm still on the same battery,but diff van.
its  nearly a must to use a leisure battery,its used to give out voltage in long periods,
a car battery gives short bursts of power all at once{like for starting your ccar/van]
        Once Ive used the leisure battery for starting my van whicch was a god send but frowned apon in the motor trade beccause its not aproppiate use of the battery.
 To cchage my splitter all I had do do was  wire the battery splitter leads red to red black to blacck,pass the ccable through the bulk head to the battery in the rear of the van but you maybe need some extra wire to reacch your battery [in the rear] jobs a goodun

  gaza
 just going on a all day bender with me mates 8)  why do we do it :?















Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 25, 2006, 11:26:24 am
I have been running off my van battery for over 12 months, my auto electrition told me i dont need a split charge relay because the pumps we use draw such a low ampage. 

I use 2 pumps going all day sometimes and still have no trouble starting
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: gaza on November 25, 2006, 12:00:49 pm
DAVE :14AMPS PER HR USAGE : X EST USAGE 6 HRS OF A 8 HR DAY  = 84 AMPS SO WHAT SIZE VAN BATTERY AV YOU GOT FITTED? 120 AMPS?

 GAZA
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on November 25, 2006, 12:02:25 pm
80 amp hours , remember your pump is never in constant use and uses a lot less with a varistream fitted
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: P®oPole™ on November 25, 2006, 03:58:00 pm
I have been running off my van battery for over 12 months, my auto electrition told me i dont need a split charge relay because the pumps we use draw such a low ampage. 

I use 2 pumps going all day sometimes and still have no trouble starting


Dave,

Thats what I was told mate, seems not to be the case tho doesnt it.

ProPole
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: AuRavelling79 on November 25, 2006, 05:25:17 pm
80 amp hours , remember your pump is never in constant use and uses a lot less with a varistream fitted

And of course some charge will be going in when the engine is running (less the juice taken from start-ups)
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: GRAHAM.K on November 26, 2006, 09:34:17 am
my pump has run from the van battery for years, 8 hours a day 5 days a week not one problem.

as for insurance any van with wfp system with a tank permanantly installed is considered to be a modified vehicle your normal insurance will not cover this.

if you just insured your van as an empty vehicle come claim time in the event of an accident you might find yourself up s**t creek.


also your gear is not covered. you need to use a specialist insurance company.
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pat Purcell on November 26, 2006, 12:19:51 pm
Could you fit your Van with a remote starter, then it could be running with no keys in the ignition so less chance of it being nicked and nice on those cold mornings to get into a warm van, or just work as normal and when you feel youve been at it for a while just press the button and start the engine from where your standing
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: JM123 on November 26, 2006, 01:10:06 pm
we always recommend an 85Ah battery for single pump operations and a 110Ah battery for 2 pump operations as a MINIMUM.

Remember also that if you are using a split relay charger go for a high capacity charger and a higher capacity battery, you must remember that a split relay will divert charge to whichever battery needs it most - normally the van battery (diesel requires a huge amount of current to start - flowplugs and a high compression ratio mean the starter has to work really hard), so you'll find that the leisure battery will only start charging about 5 mins after the engine is switched on.
Title: Re: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: neil100 on November 26, 2006, 08:39:58 pm
Graham not all insurance companys class a fitted tank in a van as a modification, Some do some dont.Both mine and My sons Insurance companys do not class the fitted tank as a modification. Though they are well aware that the vans have them fitted. I made absoultley sure the Insurance companys where aware of this.

So our vans are insured but the contents are not. So in the event of an accident we would hope that not to much damage would be done to the tank, Though we are aware you can take out a separte policy for van contents Ins.

Nel