Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dai on November 17, 2006, 09:18:07 pm
-
I was doing a fortnightly inside and out job today, and I've learned two lessons.
1] It's ok to use WFP in the rain. The windows still come clean. Right, no wrong.
Today was a mixture of sunshine and showers. With the sun being so low this time of year, every mark on the glass can be seen.
I did a row of top windows during a heavy shower. Later when doing the insides with the sun on them, you could see fresh rain marks. These windows sheet perfectly and were well rinsed. Before someone says I was seeing WFP spotting, believe me, I know the difference.
I examined the windows from the outside and they looked perfect.
From the inside from where the customer is looking, rain marks.
Myth 2. It's ok to clean windows with a TDS reading of up to 5 or 6 ppm.
I have taken about 6 different TDS readings of rain water collected in clean vessels. The readings where from 0 up to 7 ppm, the latter coming off the roof and down the spout. Fresh fallen snow when melted gave a reading of 12ppm.
The wind was from the west today, off the sea, so the rain would have been no more than 5 or 6 TDS. Yet this still left rain marks.
You may get away with cleaning in the rain, but it won't stand up to close scrutiny.
As for WFP windows staying clean for longer. The jury is still out on that one. Try doing half a patio door trad, and the other half wfp. Examine the results next time round. Dai
-
great.. lol..
just when i was getting confident with no horrid phone calls
???
-
dai,
Today did the home of a Chairman from a BIG company.
the heavens opened and we got soaked through.
I wanted to see if its true that windows can be cleaned in the rain.
so we did half the house with wfp.
the rain was a joke it was so heavy so we called it quits and went inside
nice bloke made a coffee
i said if your not happy we will come back and clean it again
after an hour rain eased off a little
and guess what
the side of the house we didnt clean was stilll dirty
the side we did clean was looking good
so maybe your Myth 1 is actually Fact 1
just my side of the story, and this is one case.
but interesting
-
I hope your myth is wrong as i cleaned in the rain today and it was not light rain it was hammering it down.
Paul
-
As for WFP[quote] windows staying clean for longer. The jury is still out on that one. Try doing half a patio door trad, and the [/quote] other half wfp. Examine the results next time round. Dai
I have 2 back windows on my place and done the same over a year ago and trad windows are black as the sticky soap attracts the dirt where the WFP window was only half as dirty
Andy
-
I was doing a fortnightly inside and out job today, and I've learned two lessons.
1] It's ok to use WFP in the rain. The windows still come clean. Right, no wrong.
Today was a mixture of sunshine and showers. With the sun being so low this time of year, every mark on the glass can be seen.
I did a row of top windows during a heavy shower. Later when doing the insides with the sun on them, you could see fresh rain marks. These windows sheet perfectly and were well rinsed. Before someone says I was seeing WFP spotting, believe me, I know the difference.
I examined the windows from the outside and they looked perfect.
From the inside from where the customer is looking, rain marks.
Myth 2. It's ok to clean windows with a TDS reading of up to 5 or 6 ppm.
I have taken about 6 different TDS readings of rain water collected in clean vessels. The readings where from 0 up to 7 ppm, the latter coming off the roof and down the spout. Fresh fallen snow when melted gave a reading of 12ppm.
The wind was from the west today, off the sea, so the rain would have been no more than 5 or 6 TDS. Yet this still left rain marks.
You may get away with cleaning in the rain, but it won't stand up to close scrutiny.
As for WFP windows staying clean for longer. The jury is still out on that one. Try doing half a patio door trad, and the other half wfp. Examine the results next time round. Dai
I'm wondering if "myth 1" is explained further down your post where you say thay the wind and rain were coming in from the sea. I know someone else on here who lives in a coastal area has reported problems with WFP on certain jobs (Rosskeseva ?). I've heard that the air is supposed to be saltier in such areas - even causing cars to rust more quickly if some people have got it right.
-
dai,
Today did the home of a Chairman from a BIG company.
the heavens opened and we got soaked through.
I wanted to see if its true that windows can be cleaned in the rain.
so we did half the house with wfp.
the rain was a joke it was so heavy so we called it quits and went inside
nice bloke made a coffee
so what happened too your new argument commercial only
does it make a difference if the house is owned by the chairman of a BIIIIG company
-
I'll WFP in light/medium rain providing it's not being blown 'sideways' directly onto the glass but definitely not in heavy rain as under very close scrutiny it does show up from inside.
If the weather is bad all week I'll take my chances with some customers I'm prepared to lose but not my best ones as my household bills don't stop for the weather!
If the weather's bad for the odd day- then I don't mind taking a day off as I've always got other jobs to catch up on, i.e. accounts, DIY, gardening, whatever, but I never get in the lazy habit of crashing on the sofa watching TV all day because then I do feel like the day has been wasted!
-
Good post Dai, i can see where your coming from.
At the end of the day my customers are ok now with me working in the rain. They accept they do come up clean but the rain does make them dirty again. Thats why we turn up regular, 4 weeks or agreed time scale.
This week has not been good & i reckon if i was trad (not knocking trad) i would have been lucky to do 2 days. As it is, all done & up to date. Not one customer complained, my only complaint was too many coffee's because they felt sorry for me.
I feel its this time of year wfp really pay for itself with the rain & the deck being slippy.
Macc
-
See? Told you it was crap. ;D
-
See? Told you it was crap. ;D
Glad to see your back on the sceen Rog. ;)
-
Yeah, stick with trad Rog, I don't think you are cut out for WFP.
Dai has a good point though, but as was posted out, he was talking about coastal work, and if the rain is sufficiently sideways to hit the glass then other much will be deposited on the windows, not just rainwater.
you are only goingto need traces of sea salt in the water or atmosphere for it to show up if it gets on the glass.
If the rain is wetting the windows it will also be wetting the walls, muck will be swirling around, just because we can't see it, it doesn't mean it isn't there.
For me very windy weather is the highest risk condition to work in (I don't mean safety in this case) it is the element most likely to get windows dirty again, and probably in particular for us WFP users.
The longer the glass stays wet, the more chance of airborne pollutants sticking to the glass, getting wet and causing spotting.
Windows definitely stay cleaner for longer done WFP.
I have a shop with a series of large, plate glass panes along a 50ft stretch.
On the one end the wind always forms something of a vortex, and when I was doing them trad, the 3 panes on that one end ALWAYS needed cleaning the following week, ALWAYS a film of dust over them.
With WFP that isn't the case, it's great, they come up so well and stay that way until the next clean.
For the most part it is anecdotal though, hard to actually prove definitively, after a month of weathering you just can't say for sure because some months are better than others.
But for those of us using WFP I think we feel it instinctively, particularly those of us that made the change after many years of working traditionally.
Ian
-
See? Told you it was crap.
Roger, as it was the rain that caused the marks they would have been just as bad if not worse, had I done them trad.
Although the wind was blowing from the west, the windows in question faced south.
I must stress these windows looked fine from the outside, and you had to be looking closely from the inside to see the marks.
They were rain marks not salt. Salt leaves a mist on the glass. a much finer pattern than rain. Sea water atomises when it is rough, and can be carried a long way inland too, where it dries like a greasy film on the glass. This can be a nightmare to clean trad. If your scrim touches the frame and then the glass you will leave streaks. Some windows used to need doing twice to get them clean. So much easier with WFP[. dai
-
A very Hypothetical Topic.
Does it matter working in the rain?
No.
To me its not weather they are clean or how long they stay clean in the rain, Its a case of do you want to work in the rain? Generally I dont work in the rain, I did yerstaday, I wanted to finnish a certain area off so I donned the waterproofs and cracked on, I also did a gutter and facia job, I prefer doing these in the rain as the moss comes off so much easier.
Customers have to accept their will be certain times of the year when windows will get dirty really quickly. Yesterday was a day in point and it does not matter if you are trad or wfp, The wind was howling in the Northwest,every time I jumped back in the van to move, I had to clean the van windows with the madgic washer button. If the wind is doing that to my van windows then its sure to deposit dirt on the customers windows I have cleaned.
I remove dirt and clean the customers windows, I do not offer any garauntees on how long they stay clean for, I clean windows throughout the year not for 6 months in the summer.
Its a lot easier cleaning in the winter with wfp and in the rain then trad.
Nel.
-
A very Hypothetical Topic.
Its a lot easier cleaning in the winter with wfp and in the rain then trad.
Nel.
amen to that Nel.
I'll take Dai's word on the manner in which salt deposits show up on glass, fortunately for me it isn't something I have to deal with ;)
I will generally keep cleaning unless the weather is rather extreme, combine strong wind and rain and you will always have problems :-\
Justifying it to a customer when you knock on their door in the pouring rain and the wind is howling through the trees takes some doing! :o
Ian
-
Salty deposits on windows are a pain!
Ask david@StIves and Rossk' - I bet they would agree.
and try cleaning windows with salty deposits plus the needles etc from overhanging pine trees all over them! What is normally 10 mins work took nearly 45 mins this week.
Ah, the joys of work :)
-
i had a customer in on friday and it was blo*dy tipping it down he reckoned he had done £290 and it was only 3:30pm there were two of them,
he was soaked and before you all start he showed me his sheet and he was right,
PS he has not got my machine :o
the rain was that bad there were 1 1/2ft floods on the way home!!!!!!!!
rgds
stu