Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: dai on November 12, 2006, 07:57:41 pm
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I went to price a job today in the next village. The women gives me a list with 10 names on it. She said they are all desperate to have their windows cleaned, and that the last guys just stopped coming a couple of years ago. I know the guys in question and have already picked up 3 days work they had abandond.
I know from past experience that once I start cleaning windows there I will get loads more work.
The thing is, I already have a round that I can't do in the 4 week period so what do I do? Take this on at better prices and pass /sell off some of the more distant work, or put up the prices on another estate knowing I would lose a few? Or put more estates on a bi-monthly basis at 50% extra?
When people tell me they are desperate I charge a pound desperate tax before I price the job. This work would be a good earner. DAI
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go to every 5 weeks. thats what i do.
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Its a great situation for your business to be in Mate. I would just do what is best for the business and you. ie; more money in the bank, less time at work.
Dave
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im in the same position i can't get my work done in 4 weeks anymore.
But i keep taking new work on but only at top prices.
If they say anything i just tell them im really popular and its taking about 5 or 6 weeks to get round.
I have not lost any customers and everyone seems fine with it.
After xmas there is going to be a cull and im going to sell my less productive work off.
Paul
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I am going every 5 weeks now. I don't see any point in taking on more work unless it's going to make me more money.
I bet there are loads of other guys on here that would be a lot better off getting rid of a weeks less lucrative work, and going round every 4 weeks as they should. Those of us with 5 week or more rounds are actually losing money by servicing our lower priced clients. If any big business could increase profits by ditching customers, they would do it. As axa insurance did with my personal accident policy, They no longer cover window cleaners. Dai
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I am going every 5 weeks now. I don't see any point in taking on more work unless it's going to make me more money.
I bet there are loads of other guys on here that would be a lot better off getting rid of a weeks less lucrative work, and going round every 4 weeks as they should. Those of us with 5 week or more rounds are actually losing money by servicing our lower priced clients. If any big business could increase profits by ditching customers, they would do it. As axa insurance did with my personal accident policy, They no longer cover window cleaners. Dai
your right
im doing my round in 6 weeks (thats on a good turn-around with not much time off) though i must say, ive had 3 days off (camping) this turn-around and im 6 weeks 2 days
i could trim my round and still make the same money, the only downside is, its nice to have a bigger round as if you lose a few, its no hardship, YET if you keep a nicely trimmed round lose a few houses and you need to seek more out
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I dont understand ?
Why extend the length of your round it makes no business sense at all, you will just end up carrying dead wood
Stick to 4 weeks put everything up and weed out the worst jobs, believe me it works
Dave
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Dave your dead right. The only difference with us is that we develope relationships with our customers. They say there is no sentiment in business, but it's difficult for some of us just to let people down.
I've come to realise that I am a better window cleaner than I am a business man. Dai
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I run around 5 weeks normally
6 and a bit at the moment due to the van crash.
In my opinion punters do not like 4 week cleans
5 is great for most !
I would take on the extra work at keen prices
then put up the lower priced stuff so it would not matter too much if you lost some of them.
Russ
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Dai, take someone on and keep on growing
Good Luck
Robbie - Clearshine
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The theory goes like this. When You start a customer you give them a price and that price tends to stay static more or less for the duration of the time you clean their windows for them.
You might suceed in putting the prices up a bit from time to time but its a lot of hassle and you can't really put the prices up by much.
So - in theory - continually dropping the dead wood and replacing it with good new customers is the best way to improve the value of your round.
However, I'm not that hardfaced myself and don't practice what I preach. Best idea is to put your less profitable customers on every six weeks "for the winter" and make it sound like you are doing them a big favour - which you are probably.
My experience is that as long as most people know they are going to get their windows cleaned regularly they are not that bothered about whether its four weeks or six weeks or even come to that eight weeks between visits.
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you will get less complaints on a 5 / 6 week rota as you are really saving them some cash and i think people are more likely to pay a little more so everyone wins. i have never felt right about cleaning "clean" windows every 4 weeks but when you first start up you do not have the customers to stretch to 6 weeks its the only option. i have lost count of the 10-20 pound jobs i have picked up lately beacause of this.
simbo
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I agree with simbo. Most of my customers are on 6 weeks now and pay a bit more. It feels wrong doing windows every 4 weeks because they are still clean.
Perhaps years ago when there was more air pollution and the like it was necessary but unless the house is on a busy main road 6 weeks is fine
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That's my plan for beginning of next year is to increase my prices and no
longer do windows in 4 weeks but to push it out to 5/6 weeks. This way
both myself and the customer win.
Another happy problem I am finding with WFP when I go back in 4 weeks
the windows are still clean, so I feel I am robbing my customers.
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I have got the opposite, all my customers start to moan if i am late my round is 4 weeks and i am always on time.
I would rather go back to clean semi clean windows rather than those with an extra 2 weeks of dirt on them.
Wait for the winter gails etc, you will start seeing more dirt on them
I really cant understand some peoples business sense
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Dave it depends what area you cover, 90% of my work is rural so there is
not the grime and dirt you get from city centres. Another reason I am going
this route as want to strecth my work out to 3 days a week.
I'm happy my customers will be happy, that's what counts but I do offer a
service if they have friends coming around etc.. and they want their windows
cleaned earlier I'll do that.
Make life simpler and you will have time for more important things in life,
and it makes no difference to my income.
Cheers
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Time to put up your prices and get rid of the cheapy's and moaners, this way you spend more time at home with your family with the extra money you will earn.
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David
I make more money doing 6 weeks than I would doing 4 weeks. I win and the customer wins. The trick is in how you approach it. I am still refining my technique.
Basically when you get a new customer you ask them how often they want thier windows cleaned before you tell them the price. Most will say once a month so you say
"actually with this new system the glass stays clean longer so we could probably get away with every six weeks. And that works out a lot cheaper for you because its only £15 every six weeks instead of £12 a month"
Then, before they have time to think about it you say " so well make it six weeks? " like you are asking for confirmation. Most just say OK and are perfectly happy with it. I have not had any say anything negative, and they all seem content with the arrangement.
To be truthful even after six weeks the windows are still pretty good. My windows at home haven't been cleaned at the back since July and they are not noticably dirty. If you go up to them and look you can see a bit of grime but thats all. These WFPs really do make the glass stay clean longer.
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Ive been down this route, I ended up with such a huge round that I couldnt manage, at earilest I would get round in 6 weeks at worst 8 weeks, ive given up half of my work now, which was a big step because turning away work isnt in my nature, but realistically i couldnt do the work on time, for me personally cutting down to a smaller more compact round was the correct move, i earn atleast the same as before, but with less stress, I should have done it years ago.
I know its hard, as you dont know whats around the corner, and it seems natural to keep the business growing, but more work doesnt always mean an improvement to your round. good luck
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I dont understand ?
Why extend the length of your round it makes no business sense at all, you will just end up carrying dead wood
Stick to 4 weeks put everything up and weed out the worst jobs, believe me it works
Dave
I agree with the above. I've too much work; some of it underpriced, still, and once I find the time and a bit of 'balls'; I'll be doing just that. It's easy to 'mince' along, doing your round, no stress, but earning less than you could; isn't it?
However for new large - stand alone - properties, I always quote a high price I would be happy to clean 'every other month'.
So I quote a high price, giving the customer the option to have it done monthly or every other month.
On the rare occassion they want it every month; bonus.
Some say, 'Well, we'll start of monthly and then see'; still a bonus.
Others say, 'Every other month will be great'. Still good.
Some say, 'How much; sorry, no'. Never mind. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Having too much work is a great position to be in. You can quote high, and there's no problems if they say no.
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I've been doing 6 weekly for quite a few years now. I found that cleaning every month was attracting a lot of the "not today thanks" customers and also had a lot of rather insistent requests for every other month which I didn't really want to do. I was overloaded with work (I admit I should have dropped a fair bit of this but didn't know the score so much then) so I went around saing to everyone (including the bi-monthlies) thatI intended to call 6 weekly in future. Most of the bi-monthlies went for that - the ones that didn't, ceased to be my customers. It saved me the hassle of having lots of work on different cycles and trying to remember if I did them the previous time or not (I didn't have a computer then so kept records by hand).
It did backfire on me a couple of years or so back because I lost a lot of work when I was longterm sick. I do get between 1 and 2 weeks off during each 6 weekly cycle now but, apart from a few jobs, most of my work is OK to very good. I have chosen to rebuild my business slowly this time. I turn more work away these days due to poor access or because they try to beat my price down. As soon as they try that, I'm not interested. Once I fill those gaps, I will be having a major cull. North Sussex will resemble "killing fields" ;D
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I get the max money out of my customers from the beginning i dont need to extend the time to get more .I charge them that much they would not pay more.
My customers want regular clean windows 6 weeks is way too long for my customers.
If you get rid of your excess work this will help to feed new window cleaners and your dead wood will keep them busy instead of poaching your cream customers.
I have just give away 6 jobs to a local shiner, here 2 things happened , firstly it keeps him sweet and if he approached one of my jobs and found out it was mine chances are he would back off, secondly these were bad jobs for me and they will help to keep him occupied whilst i am cleaning my lucrative work.
If we all keep stuffing as many jobs under our belts as possible and extending the cleaning time we wont get anywhere.
Sit down with pen and paper and do the maths , extending your round from 4 weeks to 6 weeks = a 33% loss in income ,
So as someone was saying 20% increase in price then 50 % reduction in frequency to me that means i have to find 50% more customersto cover the loss, i know what route i am taking.
If your customers say not this month thanks drop them let the wolves have them, It is your round you set the frequency if the customers dont agree let them find someone else
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It does seem strange sometimes.Some people are really fussy and want a regular 4 week wash,while others dont particually care.Sometimes,because you are cleaning on the four week cycle,some people make you feel as though you are a hinderance because the windows are reasonabally clean.I can see why some do every 5 or 6 weeks,because it feels like your service will be valued more which does obviously improve customer relations.But i can also see the more business like theory of every 4 weeks.My work is done every 4 weeks,but as said,it attracts the "not this month" brigade.
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My round used to be monthly and because i forseen an 8 % gain in income i switched .
Monthly you get 12 cleans a year
4 weekly you get 13
6 weekly you get 8.66
sayin each customer was £10
you would get £120 £130 or £86.60 accordingly per customer per year amplify that over say 300 customers
you would get accordingly £36'000, £39'000 or £25'980
even if you put your 6 weeklys up by 20 % which was suggested earlier you still would have only £31'176
I reckon if i could get 20 % by going six weekly i certainly could get it on 4 as well , a customer will pay x amount regardless of frequency
Dave
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My round used to be monthly and because i forseen an 8 % gain in income i switched .
Monthly you get 12 cleans a year
4 weekly you get 13
6 weekly you get 8.66
sayin each customer was £10
you would get £120 £130 or £86.60 accordingly per customer per year amplify that over say 300 customers
you would get accordingly £36'000, £39'000 or £25'980
even if you put your 6 weeklys up by 20 % which was suggested earlier you still would have only £31'176
I reckon if i could get 20 % by going six weekly i certainly could get it on 4 as well , a customer will pay x amount regardless of frequency
Dave
that's very interesting dave.
There's no arguing with those figures. 6 weekly need a 50% increase.
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50 % increase needed in either price rise or 450 customers required instead of 300 to achieve the same income
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money, money money, its not the be and end all. surely it depends on how much you need and if you have employee's or not, i get plenty of 500-600 pound weeks working less than the 40 hours we would all normally do and sometimes a lot more so why flog ourselves silly we might as well go back to 9-5. We all know how well you can do at this with the right groundwork over time if you are any good you will have 400 customers prob more so why worry
simbo
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sorry but that doesnt work out dave i understand what your saying but you think if you clean say 20 house's a day, over 4 weeks you will clean 400 houses but over 6 weeks you will clean 600. i work every day non stop. i never run out of work and i come round every six weeks.
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50 % increase needed in either price rise or 450 customers required instead of 300 to achieve the same income
When I originally switched to 6 weekly officially, I was often doing it 6 weekly anyway because I had more work than I could handle in a monthly rota. Therefore I didn't need to get more customers and it didn't affect my income because I was already working flat out. In fact it slightly improved my income because I was no longer wasting my time turning up at a place and getting that "not today" garbage .My problem back then was pricing too cheaply and having trouble saying "no". Looking back, I should have done a cull way back then. The cull should have taken the form of big price increases and saying no the the bi-monthly requests as the customers would have done the culling for me. I find it hard to believe what I used to accept as a standard hourly rate - even up to 18 months ago.
There are two reasons that I don't have a full workload right now.
1) Losing a lot of work when I was ill.
2) WFP. It's taken me quite a while but in the last few weeks I've been on a roll with the pole (that rhymes ;D ) . I have been astounded at how fast I can get through most of my work when I apply myself properly.
If I was still working trad, I would probably have pretty much a full 6 weekly workload but with WFP, I can do what I was doing in a reasonable 6 weeks over a 4 week period. AND, I'm pricing much higher now too.
In a years time, it is my goal to have doubled what I was earning a year ago. Double my money in two years is my goal. I may not achieve that but all the signs are that even if I don't, I won't be too far off.
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money, money money, its not the be and end all. surely it depends on how much you need and if you have employee's or not, i get plenty of 500-600 pound weeks working less than the 40 hours we would all normally do and sometimes a lot more so why flog ourselves silly we might as well go back to 9-5. We all know how well you can do at this with the right groundwork over time if you are any good you will have 400 customers prob more so why worry
simbo
I agree with you totally about not making money too important Simbo. My philosophy of life is more about happiness, freedom, and leisure pursuits. Unfortunately I made some bad choices in life that proved very expensive and I also got into a lot more debt through ill health some time back. This means that I have to shelve my laid back attitude to life and work a lot more than I would like to in order to repay my debts. It's a drag but at least I'm facing up to it now.
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I dont have problems at all with not today thank you, and if I did they would be just struck off, you may live in a particular bad area but its not all like that.
Dave
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I dont have problems at all with not today thank you, and if I did they would be just struck off, you may live in a particular bad area but its not all like that.
Dave
I've got a lot stricter about this too in recent times David. If they ask me why, I just tell them straight. I tell them that working that way is unviable for me and I can no longer afford to carry any unviable work.
Of course there are times when it's reasonable to not have windows cleaned. Sometimes the windows may be part way through being painted or they may be getting replaced very soon or very dirty/dusty building work is going on. I'm not so harsh that I cannot be reasonable about it but I do request that people let me know in advance if possible so that I do not waste my time going there in the first place.