Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: DaveBrown on November 09, 2006, 03:14:44 pm
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Does it? Just been to a customer who said she noticed linear scratches on the glass after I had cleaned them the other day. She is right. I had a look and they are there. I couldnt believe it. Doesn't do much for my confidence in my WFP system right now. Looks like I'll be having to stump up a hefty bill for six scratched panes. Ouch! Maybe I got some grit on the brush or something. Any thoughts? Any
advice much appreciated.
Dave
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Dave, is this glass new? There's a manufacturing defect that can cause scratched glass.
Did you used to do this glass traditionally?
Do you really think you're the cause of the scratches?
Other than the above, I haven't a clue, and it's the first I've heard of a WFP brush bristles scratching glass.
I would've thought that would be next to impossible to do.
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Tosh,
The glass isn't new - have been cleaning it about 3 years now but is the 4th time WFP.
Thing I cant understand is me missus did one window in question and I did the other. Customer is spot on tho and I know she isn't pulling a fast one.
Dave
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Dave,
like tosh implied i bet they were always there, i bet that if you did them trad they would dissapear, or even run your finger over it.
had same problem a while ago with a window over a conservatory, i got called back to a now ex customer about scratches, so i took an old mirror mounted on a piece of wood, placed it on the floor and put all of my weight on it to show that it wasn't my kit that damaged the glass.
then went upstairs to have a look and the scratches were the exact arc you would get by doing it by hand with the crook of your elbow on the frame, does that make sense?
hope you get it sorted
Dave
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then went upstairs to have a look and the scratches were the exact arc you would get by doing it by hand with the crook of your elbow on the frame, does that make sense?
hope you get it sorted
Dave
That's a good point. What 'pattern' are these scratches in?
Is the pattern consistant with the how the brush moves over the glass?
Are they also really scratches? This might sound like a daft question, but on my own house, Wor Lass painted the ground floor window frames; not very well; and used far too much paint that what she should've.
My brush then 'punctured' small runs of paint that had dried on the suface of the frame and picked up a small amount of paint and rubbed it on the window.
It could look like a scratch, but I knew it was the paint.
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They're definitely scratches in a straight line down the glass - exactly where I brush I'm afraid!
Dave
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Dave
Are the scratches on the inside, have you checked for this ?
Plus what time of day were you looking, this time of year the sun is very low in the sky.
If you look at the right time,with the sun at the right angle you will find scratches on most windows.
Just a couple of thoughts, hope you solve the prob.
Just seen your last post have you checked your brush,what type of brush do you use ?
Cheers Jeff
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Thanks for the advice all. Yes, scratches are on the outside. We use vikan brushes. You are right about the sun - it was belting straight into the glass, but how do I prove it wasnt me and keep her custom and probably that of the whole cul-de-sac? Maybe its just best to pay up?
Dave
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Your call Dave, but if you do the rest of the cul-de-sac with wfp ,and you concede that you have scratched one house.
Need i say anymore.
I would check the state of the windows of the other clients in the street before i decided what to do.
Jeff
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I wouldn't pay up till you are sure or they can prove it was you.
I think you would have to put some pressure on your pole even if it did have grit on it to scratch the glass.
Even if you pay up for the windows they will probably think again about letting you use wfp on them and word will still get round to the other people in the street.
Craig
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this has happend to me, managed to bluff my way out of paying for new windows but im fairly sure it was my brush that scratched the glass. its something thats always in the back of my mind now when im useing wfp.
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Your call Dave, but if you do the rest of the cul-de-sac with wfp ,and you concede that you have scratched one house.
Need i say anymore.
I would check the state of the windows of the other clients in the street before i decided what to do.
Jeff
Good call Jeff. I think i'll do that. Thanks
Dave
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No probs Dave we are all here to help one another ;) ;)
Jeff.
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Hi Dave,
Ive been using WFP for over 10 yrs, never happend to me. Dont pay!, you will lose the others customers in the Cul as well as probably your reputation, stick to the fact that the brush with plenty of water cant
scratch the windows, they will have a real job proving otherwise (u know "not guilty until proven otherwise".
If your still unsure, then why dont you take your system chuck some sand on the windows and wash them down, I bet they wont scratch! and if they do, then the glass is more than likely lower quality.
Some Panes are produced incorrectly with the unpolished side on the inside, rather than on the outside, also there has been recently a lot of glass produced with a very soft outer surface which scratches very easy, in the future if you are worried do a window and check the outcome before continuing.
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I would agree with Woodley Washers here, absolutely next to impossible to scratch glass with your brush.
Go there on an overcast day, or when the sun is the other side of the house, I'll bet you won't see the scratches then.
When the winter sun is low in the sky and shining directly on the glass, every flaw and mark in the glass will show up.
I had a complaint last Friday, customer reckoned it looked like I hadn't done half of her windows.
No problem I said, I'm on my way!
Turned out it was just the low sun highlighting water stains and mineral deposits that I also showed her were quite imposible to remove.
Whatever you do, totally deny responsibility, hell, give her the brush and see if she can add more scratches to the glass, or even see if you actually can scratch the glass...I'll bet you won't be able too.
Wash them and then squeegee them off and see if there are anymore marks on the glass.
The vikan Brushes have flocked bristles, so they are even softer at the tips than most of the other brushes around!
Ian
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If you are fairly positive that you could not have caused the scratches then you should try to convince the home owner that you coukdnt have done it but in the interest of good customer relations you will replace the glass or pay a percentage of the price,
From experience i would say never admit fault as it could lead to other claims and as someone said these scratches may be there for years but the angle of the sun coinciding with newly cleaned windows and the homeowner standing in a certain position may have led to them being noticed for the first time ,
I dont know what size scraper you lads use over there but see if the scratches run parrallel for that width as a scraper is the much more likely culprit
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Some of the very old surplus stock of ancient waterfed poles had jets that protruded through the WFP brush with a screw head attachment. Does your brush have any plastic or METAL jet heads protruding through the bristles- if they do, they are more than likely the cause of the scratched glass. However if they don't then you have nothing to worry about. Why don't you try washing a piece of OLD SPARE glass whilst pressing very hard against it and check the outcome after the glass has dried. Then you will definitely know for yourself if you are liable or not and most importantly the outcome will give you the peace of mind and confidence to continue using your WFP equipment. I've cleaned glass coated in cement, sand, you name it and never have problems with WFP equipment.
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we had the same problem last month, couldn't understand how we had scratched the glass on a job, but it was evident that we had with the direction and movement of the scratches. Turned out that when we had swapped the pencil jets for fan jets i had inserted them a little too deep and the metal lip was pertruding through, only slightly but enough to scratch.
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Some of the very old surplus stock of ancient waterfed poles had jets that protruded through the WFP brush with a screw head attachment. Does your brush have any plastic or METAL jet heads protruding through the bristles- if they do, they are more than likely the cause of the scratched glass. However if they don't then you have nothing to worry about. Why don't you try washing a piece of OLD SPARE glass whilst pressing very hard against it and check the outcome after the glass has dried. Then you will definitely know for yourself if you are liable or not and most importantly the outcome will give you the peace of mind and confidence to continue using your WFP equipment. I've cleaned glass coated in cement, sand, you name it and never have problems with WFP equipment.
Hi EasyClean, there is no protruding parts - the only way I see it is there was grit or a stone in between the bristles but from what you GUys have said this seems to be a bit far fetched. I told her today I wouldnt accept liability. She was not very happy tho! She may well take it further.
Dave
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it is possible to stratch glass and I'm surprised it doesn't crop up more often. The number of guys I have seen who leave the bristle side of the brush resting against brick is amazing. Even worse is when I se them letting the brush run down the side of a house against the bricks, this is just askig for trouble.
But as other have said you would still have to scrub the windows with some force to make a scratch.
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DONT PAY - Let the customer feel how soft the brush is, tell her it has never happened to any of your 200 other customers, then give the option of continuing service or not. Don't worry about the outcome - I imagine that it would be virtually impossible to prove conclusively that it was your brush..I had that problem once with a customer, and once he felt the Vikan brush was happy enough and am still doing the house now.
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I had somthing similar several months ago (early Spring) but this customer claimed that I had scratch thier Up stairs sills. like you I felt the brick hit the pit of my stomach, but I smiled and bluffed.
"Its impossible for the brush to scrach because"
a) Its very soft with featherd end especially designed for the job
b) because there is a constant flow of water any gritty materials are washed away before the brush head reachs that section
c) Its quite possible that microscopic particles of dirt were in the scatches before and the pure water has leached the dirt out of the scratch.
All this was put over with an air of I know what I'm talking about... and it worked (this time)
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I just tested this out on my own windows. I swept the drive with my vikan first and got loads of grit and sand on it then I washed my own windows scrubbing hard. There was absolutely nothing there, not a scratch.
Dave
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I clean my friends parents' house been doing it about 5 months when he complained to my friend i'd scratched the windows.
I had a look sure enough it looked like a couple of scratches.
Leaning out the window and feeling it, it turned out to be a few slivers of mastic from a few years previous.
Pure water brings glass up cleaner than it ever was. On the downside it shows the imperfections up a lot more.
Her dad had never noticed these scratches before, any of you guys find this now you use wfp