Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Sir Squeaky on October 26, 2006, 08:39:09 pm

Title: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 26, 2006, 08:39:09 pm: Right, now listen up you lot!

I'm getting very bored of climbing ladders and doing the same old stuff for £100-130 a day.
I'm tired and fed up. :(
Luckily for me it's bungalows tomorrow.

Looks like if I'm going to carry on I'll need one of these Bogbrush things. :-\

I can't do much about it now, as I've got no ready cash, and no van or place to make water.

However.....

Am I really going to be that much better off?
Is it really that much less tiring?
Am I going to get annoyed with constant problems, like it seems on here?
I need to make enough extra to pay for equipment and a van and still be better off.

I know some like Neil are going to say I'll be an overnight millionaire, but I'd be interested to hear from Ross or Dave of St.Ives, as they seem to not had a major increase in profits.

Lets have some good answers, not "it's safer", I know that. ::)

Lets not have a load of abuse either, I never said I was going to prefer the results, just the effort and the money.

Cheers, Rog. (sorry it's been a long post) :)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...
Post by: Fast 1 * on October 26, 2006, 08:41:02 pm: WELL I BE DAMNNED
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 26, 2006, 08:43:58 pm: It's not that I really want one.
I still disagree with the principle.

I just can't see profits changing much as it is... :-\
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 26, 2006, 08:51:59 pm: Propole, stop gloating and let Squeaks get some proper replies from some impartial posters.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Pj on October 26, 2006, 08:52:38 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 26, 2006, 08:39:09 pm
Right, now listen up you lot!

I'm getting very bored of climbing ladders and doing the same old stuff for £100-130 a day.
I'm tired and fed up. :(
Luckily for me it's bungalows tomorrow.

Looks like if I'm going to carry on I'll need one of these Bogbrush things. :-\

I can't do much about it now, as I've got no ready cash, and no van or place to make water.

However.....

Am I really going to be that much better off?
Is it really that much less tiring?
Am I going to get annoyed with constant problems, like it seems on here?
I need to make enough extra to pay for equipment and a van and still be better off.

I know some like Neil are going to say I'll be an overnight millionaire, but I'd be interested to hear from Ross or Dave of St.Ives, as they seem to not had a major increase in profits.

Lets have some good answers, not "it's safer", I know that. ::)

Lets not have a load of abuse either, I never said I was going to prefer the results, just the effort and the money.

Cheers, Rog. (sorry it's been a long post) :)

Will you take any notice of me?
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Extremeclean on October 26, 2006, 08:55:43 pm: Am I really going to be that much better off? YES within 4 to 5 months you should be around 50% faster. Yes Squeaky I know you say you are fast trad.

Is it really that much less tiring? YES when you get over the new way of working.

Am I going to get annoyed with constant problems, like it seems on here? NO. do it right and prepare well. The best investment I have is a spare pump on every van.

I need to make enough extra to pay for equipment and a van and still be better off. Payback period can easily be less than 6 months.

Having said all this to be better off finacially if you dont have the customers to fill the spare time you will have to get some more. Either that or have even more time off.

Anyone who cant make an investment of a grand or so pay off with WFP very quickly in this game is doing something wrong in my opinion.

Sorry Squeaky a bit more than a grand. I just re read your post and you will have to buy a van.

OK have I just fallen for a wind up? :)

Rich.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: neil100 on October 26, 2006, 09:00:37 pm: Squeaks.

It wont make you into a millonaire. Your right on that score.

I dont know how much extra income you would make as your very quick as it is.

It depends on the type of houses that you will do.

Is it halloween night?

Come on Squeaks its a wind up.

Boss as just told me to get a shower. Have to go.

Nel.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: WavieDavie on October 26, 2006, 09:02:01 pm: NURSE!! Fetch my pills!

Well done Squeaks - it takes a big man to admit in public that he might have got something wrong and has seen the light.

Your best bet is to go out for a day with an established wfp-er, but maybe not someone on here who's going to rip you up for arsepaper! Don't worry, it's just a different method to be used, and is another string to your bow.

Use it for the jobs that need it, and ladder the others, and use extension poles on the other ones, and use applicators and blades on some others, and use microfibre/scrims on the other ones after that.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Pj on October 26, 2006, 09:03:53 pm: You know you'll get an honest answer from me Rog.

But before I waste my time, do you want my thoughts?
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 26, 2006, 09:04:14 pm: Ha ha! No wind-up honest. ;D

It just rubs it in when Gilesy tells me what a day he's had, and it's more than I've ever made in a week.

Admittedly I don't have large commercial jobs, and I'm never going to make his ort of money, but even on my round he'd surely make more...wouldn't he?
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 26, 2006, 09:07:36 pm: Quote from: Pj on October 26, 2006, 09:03:53 pm
You know you'll get an honest answer from me Rog.

But before I waste my time, do you want my thoughts?
Of course Pj, you're one of the people I trust most.

Davie, I intend to cut out ladders full stop, if it can't be done then so be it.
I don't want to have to carry them around as well.

I'll still do my shops trad, as it's far too much bother moving a van about shop to shop for 3 or 4 quid a time.
I know I'm quicker on them, and besides which I enjoy squeegeeing. :)

But everything else will be ladder-free.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Pj on October 26, 2006, 09:10:06 pm: Give me a few minutes, I'll answer you.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: pylofm on October 26, 2006, 09:10:18 pm: For whatever my opinion is worth...I am finding that yes in the begining everything did seem hassle....water, TDS, Pole, hose....but like many things in life we as individuals make things far more complicated that needed and just like starting to learn to drive, there are a thousand and 1 things to do at the same time...after a while driving becomes such a simple process.

Now I do not have anywhere near the amount of experiance that you have (spent 6 months doing trad about 18 years ago) but I am finding that I am picking up work (slowly) that many other w/c are dropping because they either find the heights not acceptable (safety) or too much hassle.

As for useage the many members here have pointed me in the right direction and been fantastic with the advice....

I imagine the changover period will 'hurt' a little but I am find that as I am coming to 3rd and 4th cleans for some of my customers, the cleaning process is taking so much less time ( I appreciate that if you an I were to do the same job, you would more than likely beat me) but then again I am very much still taking my time because I do not have a 'full' round, so I take the extra time.

You have read the gazillion posts as have I....I am just very happy that I can keep my feet on the ground and feel safe about the work I am doing and know that when the insurance companies get themselves locked onto window cleaners....I will not be penalised for working with ladders...lets face it, the insurance companies will more than likely push the ladder usage rules further than HSE will.

Here in Holland....you'll find that w/c tend to stick away from anything over 7.5 meters...I am starting to get jobs from them as they do not want it...

We live in a litigation based world and when the insurance companies find they can wriggle out of claims....and use the regualtions to back themselves up...they will !

Cheers
Dave.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Fast 1 * on October 26, 2006, 09:11:58 pm: how about getting a lad out with you?ive been doing that lately and made more money.Im not up for wfp yet.I think i would only invest in it if the majority of window cleaners used it.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: WavieDavie on October 26, 2006, 09:12:57 pm: Davie, I intend to cut out ladders full stop, if it can't be done then so be it.
I don't want to have to carry them around as well.
Good for you, but I've had wfp for about 3+ years now and still trad or pole more than I do wfp

I'll still do my shops trad, as it's far too much bother moving a van about shop to shop for 3 or 4 quid a time.
I know I'm quicker on them, and besides which I enjoy squeegeeing. Smiley
Never a truer word - but wait till you do shopfront paintwork washdowns with wfp! YeeHaa!!
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: WavieDavie on October 26, 2006, 09:18:25 pm: pylofm

I thought that new ventures requiring ladders in Holland couldn't use ladders and existing ones had two years to change their ways. Are the older w/c firms just giving in and packing up, or will they change to wfp as a last resort.

Sorry for going off topic.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: pylofm on October 26, 2006, 09:25:17 pm: Not heard that, I did ask at the KVK (companies registration), they seemed happy with ladders....but I know w/c seem to be dropping work especially 3rd story+.

I think that just like UK, trad/ladders will be around for many years but insurance will be the problem.

Ladders are very much the norm...as far as I am aware I am the only one using wfp for domestic for at least 50km radius....and other w/c that I have met do not know of others using wfp for domestic and most have said that wfp for 'normal' will not work.

Cheers
Dave.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: WavieDavie on October 26, 2006, 09:42:30 pm: That's strange - when the WAH stuff first got known about over here, the general story was that Holland had given existing ladder-using businesses two years, and insisted that any new companies use alternate methods.

Oh well, these things seem to evolve and become urban legends - I'll have to check on www.snopes.com ;)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macc on October 26, 2006, 09:49:39 pm: I'll reply later, in total shock at the moment :o
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: brett walker on October 26, 2006, 10:02:45 pm: Rog

good luck with whatever you decide ;)

this forum wont be the same if you go wfp :D

but you will earn more money. 8)

a shocked :o :o :o

Brett :o
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Pj on October 26, 2006, 10:04:42 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 26, 2006, 08:39:09 pm
Right, now listen up you lot!

I'm getting very bored of climbing ladders and doing the same old stuff for £100-130 a day.
Two issues here: Tired of doing same stuff. For £100 - £130 a day.
Answer: If you are doing lets say £550 a week trad consistently, as you say you are, if you were doing that same work wfp you will do it in less time. At the end of your first year you will have got into a routine of doing that amount in a maximum of 4 days a week, at your average day. So if you pick up extra work for that 5th day only, you will make an extra £100 per week minimum. That is a pessimistic estimate. Don't forget I am much slower than you, I don't do time trials, but I know on your figures I am being conservative.
I'm tired and fed up. :(
Yes, that doesn't go away.
Luckily for me it's bungalows tomorrow.
Still do bungalows mainly trad, makes a nice change, as it always did.
Looks like if I'm going to carry on I'll need one of these Bogbrush things. :-\
You will need to spend more than usual..Take it one step at a time, you already have a good business
I can't do much about it now, as I've got no ready cash, and no van or place to make water.
You know about vehicles, engine size is important, get the biggest box on wheels you can afford
However.....
You must be wasting a lot of money from week to week already on your private life, re-evaluate your spending, re-invest a bit more back into your business

Am I really going to be that much better off?
.Enough to make it worthwhile
Is it really that much less tiring?
Physically, yes! But you will be spending more time and money on the learning curve, which is quite interesting.
Am I going to get annoyed with constant problems, like it seems on here?
No. Most of them are from novices, with no-one they know to ask. you have a personna already, which most like, strangely enough. The teething problems are solved quite quickly.I need to make enough extra to pay for equipment and a van and still be better off.
It is up to your business accumen. It won't take someone like you more than a year, max.
I know some like Neil are going to say I'll be an overnight millionaire, but I'd be interested to hear from Ross or Dave of St.Ives, as they seem to not had a major increase in profits.
I was disappointed you didn't include me, maybe because you are secretly hoping to make big money. That is why Dave hasn't posted lately, I'm sure! He is simply working like mad. There is so much work for wfp if you are in a built up area! I'm not, but I am not stupid.

As for Ross, well he works as a foursome, in a breadbasket of Britain, sorry Ross. I work in a depresseed area. Do it Rog, while you still can mate!Lets have some good answers, not "it's safer", I know that. ::)

Lets not have a load of abuse either, I never said I was going to prefer the results, just the effort and the money.

Cheers, Rog. (sorry it's been a long post) :)

Even longer now!
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: poleman on October 26, 2006, 10:05:10 pm: BH :o well good luck mate ;)

Andy
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macleod on October 26, 2006, 10:06:36 pm: DONT DO IT SQUEEKY :o

There are down sides to it and id be happy to give you my comments.
I do commercial mostly so it will be biased.

Give me a shout tomorrow 07725077862
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Easyclean Windows on October 26, 2006, 10:07:27 pm: Quote
Admittedly I don't have large commercial jobs, and I'm never going to make his ort of money, but even on my round he'd surely make more...wouldn't he]Admittedly I don't have large commercial jobs, and I'm never going to make his ort of money, but even on my round he'd surely make more...wouldn't he

Squeaky i went into this 3 years ago after giving up a £500 a week job driving lorries in and around london all day getting up at 2am it made me ill and i couldnt do anything with my family.

I have 4 daughters 2 of my own 2 step so a past marraige too.

No water fed poles dont make you a millionare, but what they can do is make your window cleaning a more speedier procces than doing it by hand which i know you allready know.

I have a few commercial accounts but i only do blocks of flats and the "special" office block the rest i dont do because in this game i want to make a decent living by doing something i like doing.

When i started by hand i couldnt even knock a door because i was afraid of the door being slammed in my face and being told to f@*+ off tosser we allready got one.

Lucky for you you allready have your customer base so you could intergrate them into water fed poles.

I dont want to make millions i just want to make enough to take my family on holiday,pay my bills and have a great weekend.

I get up at 8am ok some on here even yourself up and out for 7 but i know what i can do in a day with wfp whic is more than by hand.

I was lucky, a chap stoped quick in his car one day and asked if i wanted to clean some flats, ok i said i went and looked 3 floors about 200 windows £400 i said . thats great he said it takes 3 days 3 blokes to do on ladders it takes me 3 hours for £400 wow so then he gave me more work customers were pleased.

I had a call this year from a building company for a quote they needed 4, but ladders were not an option.

So i quoted £300 for a square block of flats which i cleaned every friday for 3 months and because they were cleaned that regular the time it took was less and less £300 for 3 hours work and they paid without fail.

Houses my standard minimum is £10 per house ok it varies in areas but i only do 20 day if i havent got ant £40 to do .

But i dont do less than £200 a day in houses when i do.

My biggest house used to get cleaned by two chaps on ladders it took 2 days all lead glass 3 fllors up 200 windows i charge the same £200 it takes 4 hours.

I can and have eraned £1,500 per week ok not every week but i can.

I come home early i dont work weekends if i dont want to i got a nce house and car ...not that im into flash cars or houses any way.

My girls get what they want ..almost but most of all im happy now im not as ill as i was then.

I know you havent heard great things on here regarding wfp but like anything they all have faults most can and have been sorted.

There you go and for the record when i started 3 years ago i had a ladder and a fiesta and the reason i went wfp wasnt for safety because the wahd hadnt chaged then it was when someone asked me to clean their windows but icouldnt reach half of them.Not because they were to high but in awkward places above roofs with wooden slates.

I then invested in wfp and havent looked back.

If you want to email me i can show you my accounts and invoices for some big jobs i have done so you can see you can ern more.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: jeff1 on October 26, 2006, 10:10:45 pm: What ever way you go Rog, good luck! if you do go wfp at least you can chase those big contracts, and I do mean it when I say good luck. ;)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macc on October 26, 2006, 10:28:18 pm: Hi Squeaky.

It wont make you a million but yes you do earn more. What used to be a long hard day takes me to about 2pm now, thats including chats & extra coffees.

Trust me, its a lot less effert, a major plus for me.
The odd bit of grief but i can live with it, wfp is not brain surgery, if i can sort problems out anyone can.
Since swiching my work is done every week, no lost turn over.
I felt the same as you when i was trad, bored & nackered, not now mate, i enjoy my job & its easy now.
What took me 5 days to complete takes 3 to 3.5 days now. So i can take on more work & have more days off.

A mate of mine told me about wfp 4 years ago, i laughed at him, said all the things you have said, i wish i had listened.

What ever you decide mate good luck. ;)

Macc
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 26, 2006, 10:41:32 pm: Cheers guys, so far so good. :)

It seems to be pretty much the same story so far.

Any bad points?
I'm sure it won't put me off, I'd just like to know what I'm getting myself into.

I know it's more bother at the start and end of the day.
That bugs me a bit.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 26, 2006, 10:47:11 pm: Squeaky - what car you driving? You may not need a van straight away as you can transfer all of your kit into it later. (except the bigger tank you'll buy or the extra one you'll add.) Don't forget the trailer option.

I'm fully wfp and still running out of my honda estate with about 250L (175L tank plus 2-4 barrels) and water saving devices (autobrush/varistream/backpack).
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: ronaldo on October 26, 2006, 10:48:57 pm: Come up and do a few days with me Squeak we,ll have a right laugh earn a few bob and drink a few beers and clean plenty of windows and i,ll let you loose with wfp without any l plates ;)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macc on October 26, 2006, 10:54:26 pm: Getting over the fist few cleans, i hated that bit. It does take longer.
Working out the best routine on each house.
Loading up with water for next day.

To be honest, for me there is nothing to hate about it.

When i'm at home loading water or cleaning the filters or something else needs sorting, it does not seem so bad when i'm home early sorting out the above with a stella.

Oh yes, a big downer to me, my musels are a bit smaller now & i've put a bit on the belly, i think its because work is so much easier going. Cant win them all.

Macc
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: james cairns on October 26, 2006, 10:58:01 pm: rog you have mail

jinky
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Pj on October 26, 2006, 10:59:21 pm: Notice anything Squeaky?

32 replies, and all with sound advice to help you. Not one insult, not one criticism, not one put-down.

Why?

Are they all trying to trick you? For crying out loud!

I must admit, there is a lot of rubbish, as far as I am concerned about wfp, but, when you get the hang of it, it's a bit like the squeegee, the bucket on the belt etc. There is no going back, and you wonder why you resisted so long!

It is a pain in the neck with costs, and learning how it works, but you had to do that trad?? It's not much different.

Why should I bother advising you? I don't even know you! I'll tell you why, because someone took the time to help me! I resisted for 3 years.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Bonzer on October 26, 2006, 11:27:05 pm: I'm into my 5th month WFP and here's an honest appraisal of it;

For the first month I was either the same speed as I was with trad or slightly slower.
After all the first cleans were out the way, I sped up dramatically. I am now doing 40% more per day than I used to.
Even now, I still come home absolutely shattered with an aching neck and shoulders - although this is getting less and lessof a problem.
You WILL get complaints and you WILL probably lose one or two customers, but the extra work you will get (conservatory roofs etc) will more than make up for this.
Even after 5 months I still have a slightly uneasy feeling wondering whether I've left some marks on some windows. This isn't nice because I've always taken pride in my work and know I leave my trad windows nearly perfect. You get to realise there are some windows that will never clean well with wfp. I'm learning to deal with that and I try to only take on new customers with decent UPVC window frames or well-kept wooden frames where I know wfp will be no problem at all. I am always getting comments on how good the windows are now (stay cleaner longer, more 'clear' etc etc) so that helps to deal with the occasional negative comments.

This sounds a bit negative but I certainly wouldn't go back to ladders. I feel safer - not risking slipping on certain roofs trying to reach certain windows, I am earning more per hour and I have more opportunities to earn more. The results are getting better all the time.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: tomo on October 26, 2006, 11:36:56 pm: Rog. before i went wfp i didnt have much ready cash so one way i was thinking of going was leasing a system from ionic i looked into it it was about 60-70 quid a month for a 300ltr system might be cheaper than that but in the end I borrowed some money from one of my relatives and set up all in for about £1250

i work out of a seat ibiza carrying eight barrels of 30ltrs not ideal but saving for a van :) I'm using a freedom trolley. i wouldn't say i'm a millionaire ;) but i am definitley quicker and putting an average £40 per day on my income = £200 a week more its not easy to start but once you work out the quickest way of doing things you'll be away mate.....and your experince as a trad window cleaner will definitly give you an advantage. its been 1 yr now and i average £30 per hour on my rounds as opposed to 23 or 24 on the ladders hope this helps ;)

regards tomo
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Pj on October 26, 2006, 11:47:17 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 26, 2006, 09:07:36 pm
Quote from: Pj on October 26, 2006, 09:03:53 pm
You know you'll get an honest answer from me Rog.

But before I waste my time, do you want my thoughts?
Of course Pj, you're one of the people I trust most.

Davie, I intend to cut out ladders full stop, if it can't be done then so be it.
I don't want to have to carry them around as well.

I'll still do my shops trad, as it's far too much bother moving a van about shop to shop for 3 or 4 quid a time.
I know I'm quicker on them, and besides which I enjoy squeegeeing. :)

But everything else will be ladder-free.

Yes, keep these

Think of wfp as the ladder free option, thats where it saves you, and if you work it right, makes you more profit.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: JM123 on October 27, 2006, 12:36:58 am: Oi Squeeky, no matter what Ior anyone else says, there will always be work to do with the squeegee (shops etc) so don't bin your unger yet. What I will say is buy as good as you can afford, especially hose and pole wise, and as long as you continue to take pride in your work (which everyone here knows you do) then you will always do a great job and who knows, the extra time off could be used to canvass etc leading to more work and better money. Finally don't ever say you'll never make as much as anyone else, if I can do 200/300£s a day then you definitely can.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 27, 2006, 07:58:52 am: Well I've slept on it, and it's still on my mind.

I'll have to have a try at it with one of the locals.

I hope having a bad back and neck a lot isn't going to be a problem though. :-\
I assume you can get really lightweight stuff (which costs a fortune).
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sunshine Cleaning on October 27, 2006, 08:24:53 am: If your angle of pole is correct you shouldn't get a bad neck.

Try to find extra work, and save a bit of money, it is worthwhile getting the best system you can for your work, rather than keep spending. If the Mrs has a car a van is ideal.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Terry_Burrows on October 27, 2006, 08:42:24 am: he has gone soft :o its going to cost you big bucks to start that window brush sweeper fing,plus the every so oftern filters etc,you would not get me with all the tea in china to use one ;D :-X just not worth the hassle :-X
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macc on October 27, 2006, 09:09:28 am: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 27, 2006, 07:58:52 am
Well I've slept on it, and it's still on my mind.

I'll have to have a try at it with one of the locals.

I hope having a bad back and neck a lot isn't going to be a problem though. :-\
I assume you can get really lightweight stuff (which costs a fortune).

Good idea about trying it out mate.

As for the aches & pains, yes i got them for the first few months, your using different mussels, but now nothing to realy moan about. I was always aching when trad.

Like Terry said, wfp does make you soft.

Another point Rog, its friday, my weeks work is done, i would have had to work today & saturday to get it done. But i've also done 2 con roofs & power washed a patio this week.

So today i had a exta hour in bed, going to clean my van & have a easy day at home.

Macc
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sarah Sarill on October 27, 2006, 09:17:40 am: I NEVER thought Id see the day.........
[/b][/glow]

Roger,

You have had some very honest advice from the guys - most of which I can endorse.

Regarding tools and set up. You can get a half decent system from many suppliers that will give you a trolley, small RO Man and pole, which is great if you want to do things simply and have the back up service and advice contacts (This is the option I would recommend on start up). Approx £995

Money can be saved by prcing these parts yourself (or even buying the water from Tosh or Ian for a few months) whilst saving for kit.

Get some prices from RO Man direct, Concept O2 do an 18ft pole (inc Head) for £99 and get a cheap backpack (Tosh will know where from - hes the backpack mentor here ;D) Probably cost you £600.

You can always upgrade when you have used wfp and know its for you.

Im sure Tosh and Ian will take you out for a few days but if not then we will be more than happy to.

Sarah
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: DASERVICES on October 27, 2006, 09:25:13 am: Squeeky,

I am the most sceptic person around and decided to give WFP a go. Have
not looked back, increased earnings up by 30%. In fact so I am know going
to take Jan off.

The first few months are a right pain, you will loose money.

My advise is make sure you are trained properly and do not spend
excesive money, the end results are the same with a £1k system as it
is with a £5k system.

I am that impressed with WFP and wish more folk would follow that I am
thinking of hire out a trolley system for a week or so, this way they will
see the benefits.

Doug
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: geefree on October 27, 2006, 01:20:16 pm: well i bought a backpack for £200.. a used pole and brush..(40ft but taken it down).. £160...
and i am going to be buying my water until i get a ro...

thats not a bad start up price in my opinion squeaky.

gary.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 27, 2006, 01:32:37 pm: That's good Gary. :)

My only concern with a backpack is having a dodgy back the weight will be a problem over long periods.

I'm strong as you like, but my back gives me pain. :(

Wouldn't you have to keep filling it up too?
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: www.crawleycarpetc on October 27, 2006, 01:43:28 pm: Squeaks :'( :'( :-[

You were the one that got me swearing my allegiance to traditional! I can`t believe it, I'm gutted :'(
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: geefree on October 27, 2006, 01:57:16 pm: yes , i will have to keep filling it up, but for the odd awkward window here and there..( and that is what i got wfp for initially)... its not a prob.... when i use it more and more i will buy a pump to fill it from containers in the van... but for now a couple of 25 litre containers full will be ok for me....and when it gets too much i may just place it on a trolley... or buy one...

i like cleaning trad... but wfp means i can leaflet drop just about every house now instead of hand picking the houses.... as i aint as confident as you pros putting my ladders at an angle for porches... alone .. or walking on sloping roofs... and wary of damage etc...

the backpacks are not too heavy after a window or two has been done.

gary.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 27, 2006, 02:30:22 pm: Quote from: GAZZASP8 on October 27, 2006, 01:57:16 pm
i like cleaning trad... but wfp means i can leaflet drop just about every house now instead of hand picking the houses.... as i aint as confident as you pros putting my ladders at an angle for porches... alone .. or walking on sloping roofs... and wary of damage etc...

gary.

Gary, one of Prince Charles's window cleaners is severely brain damaged after a fall. He was 52 years old (I think) and very probably extremely professional.

There's nothing professional about risking yourself doing dodgy stuff.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: LSB on October 27, 2006, 03:13:17 pm: last year i bought 35ft pole di tank etc , but not for van mounted ( im not sure enough about it ) i have only used it a few times and am not that keen on it , but will admit i wouldnt have got those jobs without it ! it has however paid for itself ! the majority of my work is normal 3 bed houses , and im not sure if changing over would be any easier i certainly wouldnt go for a van as i wouldnt be able to park near enough to most of them ........ but i may look at these backpack thingys i keep reading about .. if squeeky does go wfp !!
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Ian_Giles on October 27, 2006, 04:22:43 pm: Good to see you’ve gritted your teeth and asked the question on the forum Rog…

You are welcome to come along and see it in action…been trying to get you to do that for bloody months now!
But this isn’t a challenge; it is simply to show you the system in action on domestic houses.
I’ve mentioned more than once about this large bungalow I do, you don’t need a ladder if you do it trad but with WFP it is quite literally twice as fast and you have the added bonus of cleaning all the frames too, and all with less effort than you would exert were you to do it trad.
I’ve got quite a few domestics to do next week, take a morning off on either Tuesday or Wednesday and come along and see it in action.
As you know I am full van mount so you will be able to see how easy or frustrating it is dragging metres of hose around.

I’m sure Tosh would also show you how he works with his backpack method.

You can at least see then precisely how effortless (relative) WFP can be in use and also how quickly you can work without rushing and you can also pop back and check the results.
You can even grab hold of my pole and give it a waggle if you like too!
At the moment, you have very little that you would regard as high, so you would not need an enormous pole setup, strain on your back should be pretty minimal I would think.
You will certainly have aches and pains from using it, you will have no end of teething problems, you will have to contend with customers complaining, you will probably lose a few customers too, and you will also make mistakes, you WILL get spots! And you WILL at times wish you’d never invested in the bloody contraption!

You have to relearn your round, your approach to the job will have to be very different, every account you have will have to be planned differently, and for the first few weeks you are going to be slower.

It is a steep learning curve, you have to learn to walk before you can run, and you will find that frustrating in the extreme…

However, when you get around to repeat cleans you will be amazed how much easier everything starts to become, that house that had you snarling in impotent frustration last month is suddenly a doddle, you will start to feel guilty on some accounts and deliberately slow down if they are in (I still do now on some) and you will also find yourself actually picking up new work as a direct result of having WFP.
You have no idea how easy…say, that Georgian bungalow you do up at ST Arvans will become or that other house with the horrible deep set panes (No 47?) Though you will still need you ladder to get over the garage roof)

As for a van….why?
There are other options…
If I started over I would have gone for a trailer system From Peter Fogwill, it is the same one you see in that rather controversial thread I started.
Working out the back of the car trashed the blasted thing, the car stank of water and mildew.
I’d have also got a backpack for fiddly stuff.
I’m still happy with the Unger poles, they are lightweight and cheap, and for the sort of height you will be working at, they are perfect.

With a little ingenuity I am sure you can work out a way of transferring your water from the back to the front of the house, I know you rent so drilling holes through the walls may not be a possibility! But there are bound to be ways if you put your mind to it.
If you are knocking out over a ton every day, you are doing bloody well, and what with Em working too you should have the means to save some money surely??
Get a bank loan for a couple of grand, even if you don’t even earn more than you are doing at the present, surely you can find 25 quid a week out of £500+ ??

You know where I am, you are welcome to bend my ear any time you like.

Ian
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 27, 2006, 04:46:15 pm: Dear Roger,

If you want you're welcome to borrow my gear for a weekend, if you want to try it on friends and family. I'll even supply you with all the water you need.

Honest.

I know you've been really rude to me, and I've been nothing but lovely to you on this forum, but I'll forgive you, mate, the good guy I am!

I'll even give you a quick lesson on how to do it on my house and my neighbors; (who don't have a window cleaner, they just wait for me to clean them for free)!

If you've back problems, I doubt a backpack would be for you; a trailer system or a van-mounted system would be better, particularly if you want to do 100% WFP, which is obviously quicker.

But you could try it.

I never carry my backpack full; I'm quite happy to keep topping it up as I go, pulling spare water along with me on a folding sack truck.

So I'll lend you all the gear, water and a lesson; just for the price of a slab of good quality German beer!

I can't be fairer than that! Can I?

Tosh.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: P®oPole™ on October 27, 2006, 04:48:52 pm: Tosh or Squeaky

Do you guys actually talk when you bump into eachother around town?

Im confused with your relationship, at times it seems like your arch rivals.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Johnboyfree on October 27, 2006, 04:52:52 pm: Quote from: ProPole on October 27, 2006, 04:48:52 pm
Tosh or Squeaky

Do you guys actually talk when you bump into eachother around town?

Im confused with your relationship, at times it seems like your arch rivals.

Me Too,actually I thought they could all be married to each other ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Johnboyfree on October 27, 2006, 04:57:51 pm: I will admit it is nice to see free advice,offers of work and working practice bieng offered between these members,cant think of any other trade where this would happen.....keep it up
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Ian_Giles on October 27, 2006, 05:00:47 pm: We get on fine the lot of u ;)s..well, except for one pillock who isn't part of the forum.

Ian
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 27, 2006, 05:12:29 pm: Quote
Right, now listen up you lot!

I'm getting very bored of climbing ladders and doing the same old stuff for £100-130 a day.
I'm tired and fed up.
Luckily for me it's bungalows tomorrow.

Looks like if I'm going to carry on I'll need one of these Bogbrush things.

I can't do much about it now, as I've got no ready cash, and no van or place to make water.

However.....

Am I really going to be that much better off?

Your turnover will increase if you can find the extra work to go with your investment.
I turn down less work since I went wfp
I now work at a faster pace on upstairs windows , to say 50% faster is very optimistic, I still do ground floor windows by hand , there really is no time to be gained there unless they are georgeon , leaded etc. Lately my workload has increased ,

To sum up

groundfloor same speed ,give or take.

First floor and above definately faster , I reckon up to 50% faster.

Quote
Is it really that much less tiring?

I dont think it is less tiring, I reckon you still use the same amount of calories, but saying that I probably work longer than I ever did, whether that is due to me giving up smoking or getting less bored, I dont know.

Code: [Select]
Am I going to get annoyed with constant problems, like it seems on here?If your nature is to get annoyed easily, wfp will drive you nuts, what with the hose constantly getting looped around everything it can find, and the constant walking back to see what the hose it stuck on, especially when you only needed to get 3 foot further,.

There is a learning curve with the equipment which you will soon get over, but its worth it in the end, I had one employee who never got as stressed as me with the hose getting stuck etc, and he usually laughed at me getting constantly stressed, 18 months on i am much calmer and I now know what i am doing more with the equipment.

Quote
I need to make enough extra to pay for equipment and a van and still be better off.
It wont happen overnight , but by the very fact you have got wfp you will find extra jobs to cover it eventually, ie gutter jobs, third floor windows and all those windows which you always had to leave

Quote
I know some like Neil are going to say I'll be an overnight millionaire, but I'd be interested to hear from Ross or Dave of St.Ives, as they seem to not had a major increase in profits.

My profits are steadily creeping up now, mostly due to taking on more lucrative work, I have now got one or two big contracts which i would not have looked twice at before wfp.

Code: [Select]
Lets have some good answers, not "it's safer", I know that. Lets not have a load of abuse either, I never said I was going to prefer the results, just the effort and the money. Cheers, Rog. (sorry it's been a long post)

To sum up

I am a lot happier since going down the wfp route , I now turnover 20% more money than i did over 12 months ago before wfp.

I use wfp on tops only now, there are too many variables to be considered if you use it on everything,
Also it is easier for the customer to accept if you use it tops only to start with, you can experiment on the odd ground floor bungalow etc, but for me a squeegie is the best all rounder for ground floor.
The reason i bought wfp was to get rid of the ladder not to get rid of the squeegie.

If i have not covered what you need to know, ask me a question

Dave
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 27, 2006, 05:12:59 pm: Quote from: ProPole on October 27, 2006, 04:48:52 pm
Tosh or Squeaky

Do you guys actually talk when you bump into eachother around town?

Im confused with your relationship, at times it seems like your arch rivals.

I've told Wor Lass that she's got to 'knock him out' the next time she bumps into him.

We hate each other! ;D

Good post Dave.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macc on October 27, 2006, 05:57:44 pm: It sounds to me there married ProPole. :-*
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: P®oPole™ on October 27, 2006, 05:59:30 pm: Lol macc ;D ;D ;D

Thats what I first thought ;)

ProPole
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macc on October 27, 2006, 06:06:01 pm: Amazing dont you think ProPole. What we were talking about yesterday, go on the forem, and this topic.

Macc
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: P®oPole™ on October 27, 2006, 06:09:23 pm: I know mate, strange isnt it.

He has allways wanted a system, but like we said he dug himsef a big hole, that welsh pride has stopped him for so long ;D ;D

Great minds think alike macc ;)

You on the beers tonight matey? mite crack one open myself ;) need to let my hair down abit, well it is a friday isnt it ;D ;D

ProPole
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macc on October 27, 2006, 06:20:10 pm: Got a Stella on the go now. ;D

If he gets a set up hes going to eat humble pie LARGE, i did, but not like he will.

Macc
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Jeff Brimble on October 27, 2006, 07:17:06 pm: Ne ver seen a response like this. I have a bad back. Do it for the money. Save your life go waterfed.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: rugby on October 27, 2006, 08:02:15 pm: well done squeaks, cant have been easy. once you get the first few weeks of frustration out of the way and you gain confidence in the system, im positive you will not regret investing in wfp.

take up tosh and ians offer to join them one morning. i wish id had the chance of a bit of tuition of a couple of mates, it will make the transition to wfp a bloody sight easier.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 27, 2006, 08:33:52 pm: Squeaky - take no notice of the gloaters on this forum, just pick up tips from those of us who are glad you're going to improve your life from now on.

A word about a trailer - if you have to do a lot of reversing in the back lanes of the Wye valley it might not be the best option.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 27, 2006, 09:05:32 pm: You're right Malc, I don't want a trailer.

Parking would be a pain.
What about when I go to do the banking and have to pull up in town?
Sod that!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it yet, but I know I want to find a way.

Main problem is nowhere for a tank.
If I had the money a van-mount is what I want.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Jeff Brimble on October 27, 2006, 09:11:17 pm: Do you mean a rainwater butt Rog ?
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 27, 2006, 09:17:13 pm: I don't know. The thing you make pure water with in the garden. ???
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: dai on October 27, 2006, 09:19:51 pm: Congratulations sqeaks, I thought it was going to cost you a fortune in Rennies after eating all that humble pie. However your post handled the situation perfectly.
I think Dave St Ives post was really honest and realistic.
If I were you I would go down the backpack route first. You don't have to carry the ruddy thing, mine sits on a very light shopping trolley frame that only weighs about 1lb. If I need to pick it up it's no hassle. No matter what you decide on later, the backpack will always earn it's corn. It would sit in your car too, along with a few containers, or as Ian said, get a small trailer I think Ians advice on the unger pole is sound too.
I have said on previous postings. I get no complaints from customers. I had a few in the begining when I was learning, well 2 to be precise. One was that the windows were a mess, when I checked they were perfect, and the customer said that the rain had washed the dirt off.
The other was about a bit of bird muck I hadn't seen because the sun was reflecting off the exact spot.
The other handfull of complaints were not about how clean the windows were. They were about customers not liking the water running down the walls. Now I get no complaints at all, I may have lost about 6 and gained loads more.
My income now is about the same as yours, mainly domestic, but I live in a depressed area and still have loads of £5 jobs.
When you really get into it, you will resent getting the ladders off. Believe me.
And honest Rog, it does do a better job. When you drive past the houses you have WFP'd you will be proud of the way they gleam.
Good luck mate. Dai
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Jeff Brimble on October 27, 2006, 09:20:49 pm: Well ? :)
You could get one that fits under a sink or in an outside loo, make water and put it into 25 litre containers or a rainwater butt. Then transfer to your vehicle.
Rog the whole process may take you 2 months or 6. Then you have to sell it to your customers. Is it worth it ?
Yes.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Jeff Brimble on October 27, 2006, 09:32:38 pm: Rog, well done- I really am impressed.. You now have an open mind and can look at the issues. You may eventually decide that trad is even more for you. But at least you will have had a look. I have often thought of you when I have been working. We all get bad backs, fallen arches, pain and heat in the knees. Or at least I did. Fell off 2/12 times. My wife thought I was mad, never thought the custmers would buy it. Nobody round here ever saw anything like it 8 years ago and fortunately I am still the only one. So I dont mind that you knocked wfp cause its kept my competittion away. But if you decide to get on board, I am (and everyone on here) are here to help if I can.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: D.Salkeld_Ltd on October 27, 2006, 11:14:57 pm: I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joking aside,
Best of luck Rog.
And remember. KEEP IT SIMPLE

Make pure water
take it out with you
and brush and rince windoww with it

David
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Paul Coleman on October 27, 2006, 11:27:14 pm: Quote from: macc on October 27, 2006, 05:57:44 pm
It sounds to me there married ProPole. :-*

Yes they are - just not to each other though.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Paul Coleman on October 27, 2006, 11:29:04 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 27, 2006, 09:05:32 pm
You're right Malc, I don't want a trailer.

Parking would be a pain.
What about when I go to do the banking and have to pull up in town?
Sod that!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it yet, but I know I want to find a way.

Main problem is nowhere for a tank.
If I had the money a van-mount is what I want.

But you would need a trailer to carry the extra money ;D
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sunshine Cleaning on October 27, 2006, 11:45:40 pm: He's winding you up!!
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Easyclean Windows on October 27, 2006, 11:47:03 pm: Rog have you thought about leasing the lot ok some will say its expensive but you can put every months lease payments against your tax at the end of the year Brand new mercedes all with tank,poles etc for around £300-400 per month
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: pjulk on October 27, 2006, 11:48:43 pm: Quote
I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it yet, but I know I want to find a way.

Main problem is nowhere for a tank.
If I had the money a van-mount is what I want.

Make your own if money is tight they are really easy to build yourself and im sure if you get stuck someone on here would help you out.

Paul
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: neil100 on October 27, 2006, 11:59:58 pm: Come on Squeaks, let the cat out of the bag, Is this a wind up?

I hope its not and I hope you have a Serious look at wfp. You may still decide to stay trad, but at least I will have some respect for you that you gave wfp some serious consideration.

I bumped into my w/c mentor today, Hes still w/c and he got me started many years ago, he taught me an awfull lot about w/c and how to run it as a business.

He asked me point blank today how much more I had earned since switching to wfp, The look of shock on his face said it all.

He still intends to carry on trad for now. My reply was it shows how old you are getting. What do you mean? He said.

Well if you where 20yrs old and a w/c you would be wfp. I have no doubts at all about it. But your old and set in your ways and your reluctence to switch to wfp shows how old you are getting.

He thought about it and said your right.

Its a pity because he has a good paying round but he would earn more per hour wfp then trad. Fact.

I dont know how old you are Squeaks but you will slow down as you get older, you will get more tired which effects you and the quality of your life and those around you.

My wife loves the fact I am wfp because she as allways dreaded a phone call saying that I am seriously injured because of a fall. She still is not 100% happy because I still use them on the odd house, I probably allways will but at least I am not up and down them all day long week in week out.

If you decide to switch to wfp reserve your judgement of it for 6 months. By then you will love it. But for the first couple of months you will hate it and think wfp is the biggest wind up of all time.

Pinch me someone I dont think I wrote this I am dreaming yet again.

Nel ;)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macmac on October 28, 2006, 12:29:46 am: get a credit card with 0% for first 12 mths, buy your system with it, pay it off WITHIN 12 months and thats a bargain! buy now, no interest, thats what i'm doing now as i need to buy a new carbon pole. just remember to cut the card up after 12 mths.
moneysupermarket.com list all the best deals
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 28, 2006, 01:32:16 am: Quote from: neil100 on October 27, 2006, 11:59:58 pm
Come on Squeaks, let the cat out of the bag, Is this a wind up?
Not at all, honest.
I seriously want to move on, assuming I will be moving on, not everyone recommends it. :-\
I haven't got a big commercial round, and a lot is unsuitable.
Quote from: neil100 on October 27, 2006, 11:59:58 pm
My wife loves the fact I am wfp because she as allways dreaded a phone call saying that I am seriously injured because of a fall.
My missus says the same.
No matter how much she hates me, she does worry about me being up ladders, and getting that call....

Look at this Neil, I'm being nice to you. ;D
I just got a bit fed up with hearing your stories, but maybe I'll be doing the same thing... :)
Maybe I won't...who knows?
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: james cairns on October 28, 2006, 08:53:53 am: squeaky you should start a new thread and ask

who has converted to wfp in domestic , and found themselves going back to ladders and why

jinky
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 28, 2006, 09:00:52 am: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 28, 2006, 01:32:16 am
I seriously want to move on, assuming I will be moving on, not everyone recommends it. :-\

He's dithering already! I mean who cares if 'not everyone recommends it'?

He sounds like Wor Lass, when she's deciding what pair of shoes to buy.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: matt on October 28, 2006, 09:22:12 am: Quote from: D.Salkeld_Ltd on October 27, 2006, 11:14:57 pm

And remember. KEEP IT SIMPLE

Make pure water
take it out with you
and brush and rince windoww with it

David

this is the best advice you can get, keep it simple

personally my other advice would be, build it yourself, i use a car and 6 X 25 L barrels, from what i remmber your work is all local to you, so you could get away with 4 and pick up some more at lunch time at home
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Paul Coleman on October 28, 2006, 10:45:34 am: Quote from: Tosh on October 28, 2006, 09:00:52 am
Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 28, 2006, 01:32:16 am
I seriously want to move on, assuming I will be moving on, not everyone recommends it. :-\

He's dithering already! I mean who cares if 'not everyone recommends it'?

He sounds like Wor Lass, when she's deciding what pair of shoes to buy.

;D . Seriously though, I was hesitant about it too Tosh. I had been cleaning the traditional way since 1991 so it was a big change to make. Living in a flat set back from the road caused me to make the changes faster than I might have done otherwise. It just wasn't practical making pure water at home and transferring it to the van manually so I had to seek a place to store a tank. Also, once I felt the weight of a 25 litre container of water, I didn't fancy humping them about so went for van mount. Once that decision was made, I felt that having to return to base for topups during the day was impractical so I paid out more for a larger van and tank. I keep some containers of water put by in case of problems so that I could get by with trolley and containers for a day though.
It is a big decxision and I feel that Squeaky is wise to take his time in considering his options.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Ian_Giles on October 28, 2006, 10:52:45 am: Rog, When you say a lot of your round isn't suitable, what do you mean exactly?

Anywhere you can get to with a ladder you can get to with a pole.

All of us who use WFP are well aware that there are some windows you can never get right, but to be honest, you don't really know which ones they are until you have attempted to clean them.
I've had a couple of accounts when my heart has sunk and I've thought, 'Crap! Oxidized paintwork :'('
I've washed them, thrown the pole in the back of the van, grabbed the squeegee with the intent of at least making sure the downstairs windows are blemish free...only to find they have all come up perfect, and that from a first clean too.

As I've told you, my biggest gain as a result of WFP has been domestic accounts, and I use it on all of them, I don't have a single domestic account I don't use WFP on, and they are not cherry picked for suitability either.

All of those St Arvans Accounts would be fine for WFP, and the saddle shop would be a doddle ;)
As would just about all of the accounts up at Brockweir, ditto those ones on the estate by your mum and the ones up by Em's mum.

You've 'come out' and admitted you are thinking about WFP now, so you still have a long road to travel before you get your equipment, and knowing you that will be a road thats a lot longer than most others too.

For those of you that don't know Roger personally, even his missus will tell you that his song should be; 'There's a hole in my bucket' (no window cleaning pun intended) Roger IS Henry, trust me, this song is Roger to a tee ::)

It took him 2 years to try out a microfibre cloth...and they are only a fiver each!!

Ian
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 28, 2006, 11:21:49 am: Quote from: Ian_Giles on October 28, 2006, 10:52:45 am
Rog, When you say a lot of your round isn't suitable, what do you mean exactly?

Anywhere you can get to with a ladder you can get to with a pole.
Of course you can't!
Where on earth did you get that idea from? ??? ;D

I've got a lot of flat roofs with windows above.
7 accounts by my mum's are over garages.
A lot of rotten wooden windows.
Leaky leaded.
Balconies.
Locked gates.
etc...etc...

As I've repeated many times, there's more I couldn't do with wfp than extras I'll be able to do.

If you don't believe me I'll point them all out to you. (But don't ask, it would take ages!)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: mark f on October 28, 2006, 11:25:13 am: squeaky your in more or less in exactly the same situation as me. I have resisted untill now because like you i am a fast and good window cleaner with a lot of work such as old tatty oxidised georgian stuff with ancient paper thin glass that i know wfp will struggle with.

  But ive taken the plunge and paid out for the gear to start using it where i can. I think if i can have an easier life on some of my work all well and good.

  I will start just on the tops so as to limit any customer flak!!

Also if h&s gets any more crazy then we will have the gear and customers will just have to accept it whether thier windows are suited or not.

  Also my work is 98% domestic and some of it is so fiddly i have wondered how on earth i will manage! But i have been lucky in that the system im getting is ideal for domestic work and the trolley im getting is a trolley to die for.

It does all that a domestic window cleaner could wish for and more. It is light versatile and isnt mad on the water. I cant say to much about it yet because the patent is going through in next two weeks. But the inventor who is a friend of mine is a big commercial window cleaner and i have used this system with him for a few days and this experience has helped me take the plunge.

But there are many options such as backpacks and other trollies as well.

Im going to have a tank system in the van and use this to fill the trolley as well.

I will keep you posted when i can or if you want me to pm details of my system to you as and when i can then i will.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Ian_Giles on October 28, 2006, 11:53:24 am: I also clean windows on balconies, climb over gates and garages, so what? The pole goes with me.
And you can't have many leaky leaded windows either, there are not that many about!!
Real leaded windows are fairly rare, and even so, not all of them leak do they?
Rotten window sills? And your point is? If sills are that manky I never cleaned them trad anyway.

Henry keeps putting abstacles in front of Liza when she tells him how to repair his bucket...anyone see a connection here ;D

At least Rog is actually thinking about it, but I think he will just find too many obstacles to make the move.

Ian
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 28, 2006, 12:05:39 pm: Quote from: Ian_Giles on October 28, 2006, 11:53:24 am
I also clean windows on balconies, climb over gates and garages, so what? The pole goes with me.
What do you do? Pole vault? ???
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Ian_Giles on October 28, 2006, 12:17:55 pm: You use a ladder dear Roger, a ladder ;D

Ian
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: mark f on October 28, 2006, 12:20:50 pm: my reasoning is that if your a fast ladder using window cleaner and work on your own then even if you carry a rojak ladder stopper as i do in high profile places, there is no way you can fully comply with WAHR. So if i can limit my use of ladders then im complying to a greater extent.

If wfp doesnt work on some work or IT ISNT PRACTICAL then your quite entitled to use your ladder. But i reckon after using the pole we will do all we can to limit ladder use which will become a pain.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 28, 2006, 12:22:06 pm: Squeeky

Just treat it as another tool in the box, the same way you decide which windows to scrim and which to squeeegie.

Unfortunately i have had to carry my ladder again for the odd couple of jobs, which are too lucrative to give up and the customer will not accept them being left.

But that is the nature of the job, you decide on the tools at every job, and if the jobs seem too much hassle and they are cheap enough drop them and find something more suitable.
It wont happen overnight but its worth it.

I would suggest working a week with Tosh or Ian and in return they work a week with you to show you the best way to aproach each job.

I wish i had offers of help when i started, I am self taught trad and wfp, there was no-one local to guide me.

Dave

Dave
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: matt on October 28, 2006, 12:43:39 pm: roger

you dont have to spend big to get into the WFP world

do as Tosh will s.gest

get yourself :

a backpack -- 150 - 200 quid (havent checked recently how much they are)

a 60 GPD RO and DI unit -- 75 quid from RO-MAN

a Unger or Cleantech pole -- 40 quid

brush, hose etc etc -- 50 quid

6 X 25 L barrels -- 30 quid

TDS meter -- 15 quid (from RO-MAN, i would add a small bag of resin to the order to make it above 100 quid with the RO unit , thus free postage)

a 210 L water Butt -- 30 quid (or if you are in a flat a 200 L flat tank, to fit where ever you can, ive helped some1 fit it in the ariing cupboard)

it'll start you off in the WFP world, then if you dont like it, not much lost and the kit will allways come in handy for the windows you hate from ladders
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 28, 2006, 01:17:04 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 28, 2006, 11:21:49 am
I've got a lot of flat roofs with windows above.
7 accounts by my mum's are over garages.
A lot of rotten wooden windows.
Leaky leaded.
Balconies.
Locked gates.

I've got all that.

Windows above garages; just use a single section of your ladder to gain access and trad them.

Dodgy paintwork; try them with WFP. Most of mine come up great apart from Georgian stuff with flaky paint.

Leaky leaded; I still WFP these, with just a low flow rate and don't spend too much time on them.

Baconies; just use your ladders and trad them.

Locked gates; shouldn't be a problem for you. You've stated on this forum you knock first before cleaning and if the customer isn't in, you don't clean. When you knock, ask the customer to open their gate. Some of my customers have hidden keys for me; others I just leave the rear if it's too much bother to get access.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 28, 2006, 01:44:30 pm: I know what you're saying, but I didn't want to have two lots of kit.
The idea was to replace ladders, not have them as well.

I don't knock everyone first, only the ones that look like they might be out.
Some who aren't in I just get on with and they send a cheque.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 28, 2006, 02:00:48 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 28, 2006, 01:44:30 pm
I know what you're saying, but I didn't want to have two lots of kit.
The idea was to replace ladders, not have them as well.

Carrying ladders isn't a problem, but undeniably it is a pain to use them at times.

In some areas I'll do all my WFP stuff first, then get a single section of my ladder and go running round the windows above flat roofs and stuff. In other areas, I started using ladders for flat roofs, but then found there were ways where I could get to them with my pole.

I still have a street of houses, probably around 15 of them, and about ten of them have garages I have to climb over.

They're fairly well priced, good customers, so for this portion of the street where all the garages are and the houses are spread out; I use ladders for the lot, since WFP and ladders would be a pain here.

I have days when I don't climb a ladder once. Other days where I climb it two-to-ten times! I promise you it's a lot better than climbing up it 100 + times per day.

As many have said, use your WFP as just another tool.

Rog,

I suspect that you're fussy who you take on as customers and over the years have only selected properties that are easy to do with ladders. At the time, that was good business sense.

Once you get a WFP, you'll then start selecting better paying, bigger, more awkward properties (if they were done trad only) and making more money for your time; dropping your awkward stuff.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Grafters Cleaning Services on October 28, 2006, 02:38:45 pm: Is it April 1st? Squeaky asking for advice on wfp whereas for months he has been slagging it of without even trying it.

If you are genuine about this thread Squeaky then I will try to help out with your questions, if on the other hand it is a windup then it may make interesting reading for any other trad cleaners.

Will it make you a millionaire overnight? …….. NO
Will it increase your earning potentials? …….YES
Will it make life easier for you? ……..YES
Will you get teething problems? ………..YES
Is it safer?…….YES
Is it worth the investment? …….YES

You won’t become rich overnight but what you will find is that after a few months you will find yourself faster therefore having more time to take on more work or at least getting home earlier. It also has a lot of spin offs i.e. cleaning conservatory roofs, guttering, facias etc without putting 1 foot on a ladder, once again earning more in less time.

As for teething problems you will get 1 or 2 even the possibility of losing a customer or 2 but you will soon replace these with better paid jobs.

Now for the crunch question THE COSTS!!
If you buy from a dealer/s (no names mentioned) you will pay far over the costs, consider doing what I did.
Shop around for the equipment and build it yourself, it’s a bit like going to Ikea, if you buy flat pack furniture you will pay far less than ready assembled.
All the dealers do is to buy in the gear and assemble it to your specs and if you take away the cost of buying the gear i.e. pole, pump, tank, di/ro etc you will find that there hourly rate is even higher than garage mechanics.
So why pay these costs when there is a wealth of information on this forum alone to explain how to DIY, if you lived here in my location (Southampton) I would be more than happy to assist you with this. (that also goes to anyone)

As for what system is the best for you, only you can decide on that one. If you only have a car I would go down the backpack/trolley route although I myself prefer van mount as you don’t have to keep filling up 25ltr containers.
To keep the cost down go for a DI vessel first until you pickup more work (and you will) and at a later date get yourself an RO unit as I have done.

Converting your customers can be sorted by means of a explanatory sheet (see previous threads) you will find most of them genuinely glad to see you off the ladder.
e.g only this week I have picked up 5 new calls (average £10-00 each)
1 lady in 1 area told me her old window cleaner fell from his ladder a few months back and has not been back since and another lady (in a different area) told me she has had the same w/c for many years and he fell from his ladder breaking his leg. After 6 mnonths he returned to his round and in the lady’s words “he looked very ill and was scared to climb his ladder” he has since packed in losing his livelihood (scary eh?)

if you still want to do trad do what I do, I do the tops wfp whilst my son does the bottoms trad, the only reason I do this is to keep him employed, if for any reason we parted company I would do bottoms wfp too as I do when he goes on holiday just to keep up with the workload.

As for budgeting for wfp why not look at a bank loan? I don’t know what the interest rates or repayments are but lets say you borrowed £1,000 and paid it back to the bank at £20 per week or £80 per month that would only be 2 new jobs per week @ £10 each which you would be able to do standing on your head (and not your ladder)

Finally Squeaky, if you are genuine about going wfp then the very best of luck to you, you will never look back.
I know several trad w/cs that have change over to wfp but have never (as yet) come across a wfp w/c that has gone back to trad!

Don’t forget, if you ever come unstuck this forum is only a click on the mouse away to help!

GOOD LUCK MATE ;)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macc on October 28, 2006, 02:44:09 pm: Rog.

I lease my van mount, ok, it may be slightly higher on the payments but it 100% against tax, no down payment & at the end of the lease its mine.

As for the flat roofs i have a set of telescopic ladders for access & use my mini pole.

I've not 1 window i cant get to with a pole if i could get to it with a ladder, you will be suprised what you can do with a pole, i still get the odd time that puts a smile on my face.

Macc
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 28, 2006, 03:22:42 pm: Cheers Jay (and the others).
A lot of useful information. ;)

Can't see me getting anything out of the bank until I've paid off the loan for the last whopping overdraft!

I'll keep pondering...
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: D.Salkeld_Ltd on October 28, 2006, 04:00:09 pm: Q. Will WFP totaly eliminate ladders?

A. NO!. But you'll be surprised where you can thred that pole when you get the hang of it. I think even on your round you will have a 70 - 80% reduction in the use of your ladder

Q. Can ALL windows be done WFP?

A. NO! But, again 90% can. Even flaky paintwork you'll be surprised! The worst are where white paintwork has gone "powdery" Also some aluniium windows are like that. In these cases DO NOT TOUCH THE FRAMES. Get a swivle brush so as to be more accurate. It takes time, patience and practice but you'll be surprised!

David
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: matt on October 28, 2006, 04:16:19 pm: Quote from: D.Salkeld_Ltd on October 28, 2006, 04:00:09 pm

Q. Will WFP totaly eliminate ladders?

A. NO!. But you'll be surprised where you can thred that pole when you get the hang of it. I think even on your round you will have a 70 - 80% reduction in the use of your ladder

Q. Can ALL windows be done WFP?

A. NO! But, again 90% can. Even flaky paintwork you'll be surprised! The worst are where white paintwork has gone "powdery" Also some aluniium windows are like that. In these cases DO NOT TOUCH THE FRAMES. Get a swivle brush so as to be more accurate. It takes time, patience and practice but you'll be surprised!

David

i beg to differ with both points, i have 2 houses now i have to get onto the garage flat roof, i could either not do the windows or drop the account, thus no ladder fro me at all (its possible)

if the window is upstairs then it gets done with WFP, end of, i do a few alu framed windows, i have explained the score and they accept it, you get the odd run of metal paint on the odd occasion, but you would get the odd smear from the frame doing it trad aswell
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: poleman on October 28, 2006, 04:27:03 pm: Me to if it cant be done with WFP it dont get done FULL STOP
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: brett walker on October 28, 2006, 04:38:52 pm: I only use my double ladder a couple of times a month but i regulary use my pointer to unlock gates, i think ladders will aways be needed in one way or anothr for this job
When people see ladders or a pointer on a van it obviously distinguishes you as a window cleaner, so i leave my ladders on my van all the time because you never know what they will come in handy for as they are just another tool for the job

regards

Brett
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Paul Coleman on October 28, 2006, 04:58:48 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 28, 2006, 12:05:39 pm
Quote from: Ian_Giles on October 28, 2006, 11:53:24 am
I also clean windows on balconies, climb over gates and garages, so what? The pole goes with me.
What do you do? Pole vault? ???

His pole has a spring in the end and he uses it as a pogo stick.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Paul Coleman on October 28, 2006, 05:04:10 pm: Quote from: Squeaky Clean. on October 28, 2006, 01:44:30 pm
I know what you're saying, but I didn't want to have two lots of kit.
The idea was to replace ladders, not have them as well.

I don't knock everyone first, only the ones that look like they might be out.
Some who aren't in I just get on with and they send a cheque.

Squeaky.
I think you will have trouble ditching ladders completely. I need to carry one for a few jobs (above flat roofs etc). I often go a few days in a row with the ladder untouched but it's a useful tool to have.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macmac on October 28, 2006, 05:14:04 pm: totally honest answer:-

you will NEVER eliminate ladders,

WFP does NOT work on every job,

sometimes its that much hassle draggin hoses etc that its far quicker and easier to do trad,

i have both and NEED both,

when the windows are suitable wfp is BRILLIANT,

you WILL have jobs that require both trad and wfp,

going wfp without a van IS more hassle than its worth,

there are days when i HATE wfp,(especially in winter, you sometimes create a skating rink for your customers, and your equipment freezes up in van at night unless you bring it in- more hassle)

i know a guy who got wfp, he boasted so much about it (he spent 9 grand including van) that he talked his friend into getting it.most of his friends work wasnt suitable for wfp so he lost loads of his work and ended up selling it for a huge loss!

take HONEST advise, if its not broke dont mend it is sometimes a good frase.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 28, 2006, 05:21:09 pm: Quote from: macmac on October 28, 2006, 05:14:04 pm
totally honest answer:-

most of his friends work wasnt suitable for wfp so he lost loads of his work and ended up selling it for a huge loss!

take HONEST advise, if its not broke dont mend it is sometimes a good frase.

Macmac,

I think you're being honest, but how do you know that this bloke who lost loads of work wasn't a case of 'user error', rather than unsuitable work?
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: macmac on October 28, 2006, 05:45:18 pm: hi tosh

it was both user error and unsuitable work, work that was easier and faster to do trad (rat-runs of council estates, old oxidised farm house sash windows etc). i felt for the guy to be honest, he'd taken bad advise.

for example:- if he did loads of commercial work with big panes and new frames and modern detatched houses with new pvc windows i would have said to him YES get wfp you will benefit no end, but that was not the case. he had been led to beleive that he no longer needed ladders, he would be done in half the time etc..............

what i'm trying to say i suppose is that everyones work is different and not everyone can afford to say "if it dosn't work with wfp then it dosn't get done"

my pal earns 30k per year doing trad, he works 6 to 7 hours per day at a very steady pace, 5 days per week (weather permitting) + a good lunch break.

i personally would swap him tomorrow and i've got wfp.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: AuRavelling79 on October 28, 2006, 08:32:08 pm: You can go completely ladders free if you want to - I have. It took fifteen months.

First my commercials - no sweat - 25% of the round.
Then a three/six months later the farms/bigger properties/posher areas, now 80% of the round.
Then six months later the small terraces, village houses with steps and awkward access - a backpack sorted that - now 95% of the round
Finally the die hards! See below:-

Half a dozen elderly folk (some with new pvc, some with wood)who didn't want water running down their walls. A couple living in an 18th Century house with old leaky sash georgian windows.

In all about ten final customers who I knew were going to be difficult. Total spend, about £100 per month out of about £2500. Because all the rest were "in the bag" and had been converted with explanatory leaflets, downstairs trad. (initially) etc. I knew I could lose them if necessary.

I wrote a final letter explaning WAHD, insurance etc and three adamantly refused and seven said they'd try it. Of those seven, six have stayed. And of the four that have gone I was glad to see the back of three of them anyway.

My round has gone from just under £2k to about £2.5K and it takes me 30 hours instead of 35.

All is good.
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 29, 2006, 08:02:23 am: Malc

You know that is a mirror image of what i did and felt.

The percentages of money and time are about right to.

I dont know where these firms get 400% faster from lol, perhaps they cant add up

Dave
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Terry_Burrows on October 29, 2006, 01:27:34 pm: I fail to see how wfp can be faster than trad ???time you have pulled all that hose out,trad would be done and gone,the stuff I see in the west end of london going on,is nothing but laughable ;D when it was much easyer to trad it in the first place,just my thoughts :-X and then you have to pack the lot away again :-\ I just could not be bothered with it,now winter is coming and the freeze facter on pavements etc with all that water flying around :-\ you have a portable skating ring ;D :D
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: P®oPole™ on October 29, 2006, 01:49:27 pm: Quote from: Terry_Burrows on October 29, 2006, 01:27:34 pm
I fail to see how wfp can be faster than trad ???time you have pulled all that hose out,trad would be done and gone,the stuff I see in the west end of london going on,is nothing but laughable ;D when it was much easyer to trad it in the first place,just my thoughts :-X and then you have to pack the lot away again :-\ I just could not be bothered with it,now winter is coming and the freeze facter on pavements etc with all that water flying around :-\ you have a portable skating ring ;D :D

Hi Terry,

You wouldnt get know were near those houses/buildings in the west end with your ladder tho would you? how would it be much easier with trad they are all 3/4/5 old floors high. sit out on the window job?

ProPole
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 29, 2006, 04:10:02 pm: Quote from: ProPole on October 29, 2006, 01:49:27 pm
I dont know what you have seen around there, but its certainly not me working it. Because if you did you would of had a little think to yoursef "good gosh he looks very pro" then the bells would ring in your head ££ ;D ;D
Oh, come on Propole!

I may be looking at wfp myself, but that's silly.
No way does any wfp user look as pro as Terry!
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Ian_Giles on October 29, 2006, 05:05:37 pm: Well as Terry is the fastest window cleaner in the world, what an earth would be the point of him going WFP? ???
His bag is trad ;)
But for us lesser mortals WFP makes life very much easier, its still hard work, but it requires less physical effort.
And by and large you will be roughly 30% quicker, and that even applies to the guy on the forum (forgive me, I can't remember his tag now! :-\) who claimed he was lightning with trad, he got derided something rotten, but he also put it on the line and proved it too.
He went WFP and is now more profitable than before.
As I've said before, you have to re-learn how to clean windows, if you want it to work then it will, but it really is a whole different board game in approach and execution.
I am not religious, but I thank god that I made the change. Truth.

Ian
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Paul Coleman on October 29, 2006, 05:42:52 pm: Quote from: Ian_Giles on October 29, 2006, 05:05:37 pm
Well as Terry is the fastest window cleaner in the world, what an earth would be the point of him going WFP? ???
His bag is trad ;)
But for us lesser mortals WFP makes life very much easier, its still hard work, but it requires less physical effort.
And by and large you will be roughly 30% quicker, and that even applies to the guy on the forum (forgive me, I can't remember his tag now! :-\) who claimed he was lightning with trad, he got derided something rotten, but he also put it on the line and proved it too.
He went WFP and is now more profitable than before.
As I've said before, you have to re-learn how to clean windows, if you want it to work then it will, but it really is a whole different board game in approach and execution.
I am not religious, but I thank god that I made the change. Truth.

Ian

I think you might be referring to Steve Richardson (also called himself UBA1 or similar. I remember the name because I travelled a long way to spend half a day or so with him. It was a pity that this was not too long before I changed to WFP because I wish I had been out trad cleaning with him years before. I didn't make all the changes he suggested as a couple of them didn't feel safe for me but I changed enough to speed up considerably. Although I earned a lot more over the short sprint, he is 15 years younger than me and a lot fitter so I would not have been able to sustain the pace consistently. However, it was a very big help.
Even bought me breakfast too ;D
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: freshwater on October 29, 2006, 05:46:30 pm: Looks like you have allready sold it to yourself

"I'm getting very bored of climbing ladders and doing the same old stuff for £100-130 a day.
I'm tired and fed up.
Luckily for me it's bungalows tomorrow.

Looks like if I'm going to carry on I'll need one of these Bogbrush things"

steve@freshwatersystems.co.uk
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: P®oPole™ on October 29, 2006, 06:23:07 pm: Ian & Squeaky,

Officially Terry is the world champion, but the Americans seem to think differently they have made the likes of Hugo Bordet, Franck Lauret, Jim Willingham and the small japanise guy I would put my money on all day long. The ultimate flying squegee, Takeo Sato.

Mark my words fellas Takeo Sato, will be the next champ.

ProPole
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 29, 2006, 08:40:52 pm: Quote from: ProPole on October 29, 2006, 06:23:07 pm
Mark my words fellas Takeo Sato, will be the next champ.

ProPole

Takeo is my Japanese Grandad's name; no poo!

Coincidence or what?

Howay the lads!!!!!!
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: poleman on October 29, 2006, 08:56:02 pm: Quote from: Tosh on October 29, 2006, 08:40:52 pm
Quote from: ProPole on October 29, 2006, 06:23:07 pm
Mark my words fellas Takeo Sato, will be the next champ.

ProPole

Takeo is my Japanese Grandad's name; no poo!

Coincidence or what?

Howay the lads!!!!!!

(http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/marvinjp/imgs/7/c/7c0c598a.jpg)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: P®oPole™ on October 29, 2006, 09:13:37 pm: The big boys.....

Left- Right

Jim Willingham, Franck Lauret, Hugo Bordet.

Who knows what terry set the record at?
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Johnboyfree on October 29, 2006, 09:29:06 pm: Hi,his record is 9.24 seconds.....and that is for 3 seperate windows at 45 inches square,no runs no drips and wipe the Sills..I can do one in that time 8)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: billozz on October 30, 2006, 07:29:12 am: squeaks,
dont be fooled by all the hype, you will definately have problems with a pole system, some of the probs we have had have almost made us consider going back to trad, poles wearing, non kink hose kinking, pumps failing, customers moaningit is very frustrating at times and you will feel like chucking it in the skip on occassions,....but but but, it is quicker than most trad ppl can work and less tiring and as some have said when you get used to how to use it you can earn cosiderably more than trad, be prepared for problems though you will get em
bill
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: billozz on October 30, 2006, 07:29:54 am: e
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Sir Squeaky on October 30, 2006, 08:00:31 am: Quote from: billozz on October 30, 2006, 07:29:12 am
squeaks,
dont be fooled by all the hype, you will definately have problems with a pole system, some of the probs we have had have almost made us consider going back to trad, poles wearing, non kink hose kinking, pumps failing, customers moaningit is very frustrating at times and you will feel like chucking it in the skip on occassions,....but but but, it is quicker than most trad ppl can work and less tiring and as some have said when you get used to how to use it you can earn cosiderably more than trad, be prepared for problems though you will get em
bill
Cheers Bill, there's one of my big problems.
I don't want a lot of headaches and let-downs.

Can't someone sell me a reliable system? ???
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: neil100 on October 30, 2006, 08:27:31 am: Bill,

Of course you will have problems with wfp. It goes with the territory.

But carrying spares will allways mean you can fix it their and then or at the end of the day. Example, You damage your pole, you cannot use it, You have no spare, Stop work go home and order a new pole. hang around for three days waiting for your pole to be deleiverd cursing wfp because you cant earn any money.

Thats not wfp fault, Its down to the individual who as not had the forsight to carry a spare pole should that sitiuation ever arise.

The poles dont last long, granted. I use an 18' pole mainly. I buy cheap poles. Target time to last is a year then throw it away. If it lasts longer all well and good. I have been wfp for 10 months and all my poles are going strong not had to throw one away yet, I bought 2 new predator 18' poles last week, they only cost £79 plus vat from Brodex. Metal collar and butt on them as well. Hardly an expensive item less then 3 hours work for one.

I use m/bore hose, its never kinked on me. I have got it caught on stuff before but that is something you just except. But if you are aware what you can snag the hose on you can minimize snaging.

I think when you start wfp you allways seam to tinker with your system, trying to improve it wasting your free time. But when you have it set up perfectly and you have been at wfp for a while it does not take a lot more of your free time to get ready for the next days work.

Squeaks may not move to wfp, only he can make that choice but at least he is considering it. I thought about wfp for 2 years, thinking yes I wiil change, No I wiil stay trad. I did not think I would ever switch because I was perfectly content in the main with trad w/c. Wfp seamed an all new ball game.

The turning point for me came when I asked my freind to come round and demonstrate on my house how good it was. He kept telling me I would earn more money with it. In your dreams mate was my reply.

Despite it being a demo and me having a go on few windows, he was about 15 mins faster then me doing it trad, I was impressed with the results when they had dried, but I could not beleive how much quicker and safer it was.

On a personal note I hated it. I did three windows and my arms where wrecked. I thought if I do switch I will be safer I expect I will earn more money but I will never enjoy w/c again to the same degree.

Within 4 months of the demo I had my van set up, Though I waited untill the turn of the year to unleash it in all its raging fury on my customers.

My biggest worry was that my round would be devasted by customers leaving me in there droves and a system that I hated leaving me wanting to return to trad w/c.

But the biggest worry being I got it wrong big time.

10 months on, I love wfp, much more then trad w/c, honestly. I find it very therapeutic for some reason. If wfp got banned for some reason I might leave w/c alltogether as I do not want to go back full time to ladders.

My round is now growing at a massive rate. In the last 2 months I have lost £110.00 of work but gained £750.00 of new work. My average weekly wage as increased over the last 43 weeks by over 50%. But I am still not working any longer hours then when I was trad, and the real positive is I am nowere near as tired as I was this time last year being a trad w/c.

For me its been the right move I only wish I had done it years ago.

I am glad I am not in your position Squeaks, It is really hard to decide what to do and despite what people write none of us can stop you worrying weather its the right thing for you to do. Even if you decide to stay trad it will allways nag you in the back of your mind when you are up a ladder where would I be now if I had gone wfp.

All the best.

Nel 8) ???
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Ian_Giles on October 30, 2006, 08:40:01 am: If for some strange reason they banned WFP I'd dump window cleaning like a hot brick.

I agree with Neil on that one for sure, not a snowballs chance in hell of me ever going back to working off a ladder.

Bill is right though Rog, you will certainly have lots of frustrations and headaches and it'll take a few weeks before you begin to sort them out.
You will have customers moaning, no doubt some will cancel, pumps sticking or not working, worrying about the TDS, worrying about how much water you are using, problems with spotting (at least to begin with)

Will it suit you?

No idea, but come along with me and Tosh and see two different methods in action, Tomo may also be happy to show you a trolley system in action too...

Ian
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Paul Coleman on October 30, 2006, 06:14:46 pm: But Squeaky, still burning with desire to put to death the disciples of the Great Pure Water God, went to the high priest of Tosh, 2 And made a request for letters from him to the Synagogues of Damascus, so that if there were any of the Way there, men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Chepstow. 3 And while he was journeying, he came near Damascus; and suddenly he saw a light from heaven shining round him; 4 And he went down on the earth while falling from his ladder, and a voice said to him, Squeaky, Squeaky, why are you attacking me so cruelly? 5 And he said, Who are you, Lord? And he said, I am the Great Pure Water God, whom you are attacking: 6 But get up, and go into the town, and it will be made clear to you what you have to do. 7 And the men who were with him were not able to say anything; hearing the voice, but seeing no one. 8 And Squeaky got up from the earth, and when his eyes were open, he saw nothing; and he was guided by the hand into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was not able to see, and he took no food or drink.

10 Now there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ian; and the Lord said to him in a vision, Ian and he said, Here I am, Lord. 11 And the Lord said to him, Get up, and go to the street which is named Howard Road, and make search at the house of Omnipole for one named Squeaky of Chepstow: for he is at prayer; asking the Great Pure Water God about which system to buy.

Adapted from the book of Acts in the Bible. :) (hope no-one gets the hump about that). It's applying the overnight conversion of Saul on the road to Damascus to Squeaky's first flirtation with WFP :-)

Bet this one gets deleted :-)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: neil100 on October 30, 2006, 06:35:31 pm: Better to have a giggle Shiner.

My only worry is Squeaky could be put to death by Stoneing because of His Zealot Evangelism for the Traditonal Window Cleaning God and his fanatical followers ::) before His wfp conversion.

Nel ::)
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Terry_Burrows on October 30, 2006, 06:49:47 pm: right time to put the record again straight,Jim willihgham Frank lauret dont know who the other guys are,for a start they do not stick to Guinness Rules fact!Guinness book went to france with me to find all this was true what I said about America France was fact,they do not have any sill to wipe ??? and whats more its crooked as you like contest, I have beaten these boys on there own turf,they dont bother me jack poo!
they are not good enough ;D 8) when I was there in 1997 vegas,I took the fastest time over 2 days,who did they give it to,an American bent as you like,sky news was there with me,you can butter these boys up all you like,there is only one Guinness World Record Holder and thats me,and I do not intend to down :o ;D 8) at least to them :-X
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: D.Salkeld_Ltd on October 30, 2006, 07:46:22 pm: Now if we Great Pure Water God worshipers could convert Terry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that WOULD be a Mirical(SPELLING!!)

Come on Terry.........You know HE's calling YOU!!!!

David
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: Terry_Burrows on October 30, 2006, 08:05:13 pm: He might be david but I cant hear him :-\ ;D
and I forgot to add I did the windows in just 8.24 seconds :o ::) and I did get 2 penaltys how bad was I ;D :o WATCH AT NEC ;D 07 AND PROPOLE you have never been to IWCA convention have you :-\ its bent as a 9 bob note I been and seen it :P so do not comment how pro like they are,they are krap :P
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: P®oPole™ on October 30, 2006, 10:01:01 pm: Hi Terry

Firstly let me clarify, I was not having a dig at you personally infact I have alot of respect for you, when I met you at Windex 2006 you seemed like a very nice guy. I would also like to add that I am indeed glad that the title is in English hands.

However there are a couple of things what I would like to point out, the whole compition is bent if you think about it, you can go right into anything like this "oh but they use a different squeegee" "they dont have a sill" The apllicators would have to be damp to the exact same degree. if it was 100% fair everyone would use the same squeegee and every one would have a brank spanking new factory cut blade also the worst thing is your fellow committee chums are your judges. And you the actuall world champ are the judge to every U.k contestent those two things alone are enough for me to call our U.K comp bent as a nine bob note!! ;)

Also only two mistakes is very good, I hope you hold the crown, but watch out for Takeo he is very quick.

ProPole
Title: Re: Come on, sell wfp to me...!
Post by: billozz on October 31, 2006, 03:57:26 pm: i would never try to talk sqeaks out of going the wfp route because i do think that all in all it is better than trad safer, quicker, and does a better job for the customer, but it does, or i should say we, have had some serious problems that we were not forwarned about and did not expect.
To go neils route would have meant us having to by double of almost everything, not cost effective me thinks or practical, i wont bore you with the details as i have mentioned on here already some of the probs that we have had, but youcant buy two of everything just in case it fails, and if you are new to wfp how can you possibly "foresee" problems