Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: rugby on October 20, 2006, 05:38:33 pm
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Had a phone call 8am this morning,customer in a panic, " all my windows are steamed up on the outside,we have never seen them like this before it must be your wfp system its done something to our windows,you will have to come and have a look "
went to see them just after 11am expecting the worst but couldnt see a bloody thing wrong with them,still looked spotless and it was 10 days since i had cleaned them. customer said yes they are ok now but you should have seen them this morning,like a big square of condensation on every window.
I tried to explain pure water yet again and how it couldnt be the cause of the condensation and since they all looked perfect now their cant be a problem, but they wouldnt have it and cancelled me.
so that was £15 pound a month lost big deal, but then two of their neighbours join in the conversation and decided that if my system was damaging windows then they would cancel to,so now thats a total of £45 lost, even though all their windows looked great.
has anyone else had a complaint about condensation on the outside of windows after wfp, i would be very supprised if they have.i just hope all my other customers dont talk to these idiots.
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Funny you started this thread.
Today I cleaned a house I do every 8wks but the garage windows were soaking on the outside. It is down to the garage been colder than the outside air temp, so the warm air hits the cold glass and forms condensation. It is because there is no heating on in the garage, had there been no problem.
So long and short not your fault.
Roy
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thanks roy
even though i realised it was not my fault it does knock your confidence abit when you get customers complain,thats why i love this forum,its a mixture of good advice and moral support when you get those crap days that every window cleaner gets now and again
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Hi Rugby, had a customer cancel last week as they believed the water would not dry from their glass....nothing could be said to explain to the customer that all would be well despite a full explaination being given 1week before when we quoted the job...in the end people are people....it does not take away the bitter taste of a cancellation especially when you know you have done nothing wrong...some people are just sheep...
Just keep the faith and plod on.... ;D
Dave.
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We had a customer cancel a few weeks ago because the RO water was damaging his brickwork. ??? What he was refering to was the grit etc that gets washed down the wall on to the path that goes around his house. He claimed our RO water was disolving the brick and there was the proof on the path. Forget the fact that his house is 140 years old.
When I pointed out the obvious he kept repeating it was something we were adding to the water. After 10 minutes of listening to this idiot and trying to explain, I just held my hands up and walked away with him in mid sentance.
Sometime people take a little bit of information and guess the rest and treat it as fact.
We've never had anything to do with condensation though.
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Is it possible that the condensation was between the panes and only rises when the sun shines on the glass and dissapears when the glass cools down , If so then the window has a thermal seal leak which is not your fault
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One of my customers remarked to me the other day how they are now getting a layer of "mist" on the outside of their windows in the mornings when there is fog in the air.
I said I had never come across this before, they are reasonably new windows (no blown seals) and he is a very intelligent bloke (former army surgeon now a practising GP), he reckons it is something to do with the pure water, says it clears fine, just thought it was a bit odd, anyway he is going to delve into this out of curiosity - will let you know if comes up with anything.
Marc
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I had one last week with the same problem, said that the windows were misted up on the outside and as they were new windows did not want me to clean them as she was waiting for the installers to come and correct the problem, tried to explain that it was just condinsation but would not listen, (heaven help the installers she was going to give it to them good)
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Really odd.
Normally you only get condensation on the outside of glass when the temperature outside is higher than the inside and the dew point temperature is higher than both.
I can't see that happening very often.
It'll be interesting to find out the cause.
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Have these people not got cars? Our cars windows are misted up every morning as are the wing mirrors. If double glazing is working properly and retaining the house heat, then what's the difference between house and car windows? Dai
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That is true.
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Hiya,cars move houses dont ;D ;D
And you dont or shouldnt use wfp on cars,
Ive had the same on two new builds,did them trad the next time and no problems since,dont know if its the weather or what,the other 20 odd houses on the estate were fine or they didnt notice as they leave for work early or have not told me yet?if you do find out I would be interested.
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This is what you need to tell your customers...
If they say that 1 or 2 windows have "steamed" up because your wfp then you politely let them know it cant possibly be as why havent all your other windows gone like it..
Condensation...... windows always have moisture in-between the panes of glass always, but the reason you don't see it is because the silica gel between the silver strips is absorbing the moisture. The reason for the "excess water not condensation is because the moisture is already there and the silica gel has absorbed as much moisture as it can therefore as it can no longer absorb moisture it then seems to leave "misted up or condensation between the panes" but like i said its always between the panes its just that the silica gel has been absorbing it.
No insurance company or wfp manufacturer could take the blame or you as if you were taken to court the window manufacturer would tell you exactly what i have.
That's why you get the silica gel packets in a box of shoes to absorb the moisture in the box.
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It is not between the pabes, but on the outside.
Double glazing is supposed to stop this happening on either the inside or the outside.
Marc
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Even before i was wfp my siiting room window used to mist up on the outside on the rare night, so it has nothing to do with wfp.
Macc
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Here's a thought...
Could it be that all of a sudden the windowcleaner is useing something new, ie I bet they went round every window that was WFPoled and checked to see if it works (even though you have been cleaning thier windows for years.)
And because you are useing a new gizzmo they without realising it notice the windows more (early days) just like they would have done when the windows were first fitted..
Thinking back I seem to remember noticeing mist on the out side of my own bedroom windows ages ago before I even had WFP (I can even remember as a child the inside misting up in the days before central heating)
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Unfortunately the downside of double glazing is that the sealed units break down. They are sealed with a sealent all the way round the glass sealed unit. Now most double glazed units that break down are south facing windows or windows that are getting the Sun on them for most of the day.
The glass can heat up on the outside of the window more then the glass on the inside, It can cause a small amount of movement in the sealent around the outside edges of the double glazed unit. You only need a pinprick of air to be allowed through the sealent for the unit to start misting up.
Unfortunately the unit may have broken down only recently but she only noticed after you cleaned the windows. Rest assured it was not your fault. I have come across this problem many times whilst I have been cleaning windows. I have seen a full house with brand new windows fail within months.
If the customers windows have been in less then 5 years they will be under garauntee so she should be able to get them changed.
The problem with wfp is that they clean windows to a very high standard, so if there are imperfections in the glass they will show up. They may never have noticed it before with trad w/c but it stands out more with wfp.
Nel.
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The problem with wfp is that they clean windows to a very high standard, so if there are imperfections in the glass they will show up. They may never have noticed it before with trad w/c but it stands out more with wfp.
Nel.
;D ;D ;D Don't start that crap again!
You can't clean windows to anywhere near my (or any other proper w/c's) standard.
Don't fill people's heads with rubbish please, it doesn't help the forum.
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;D ;D Squeaky,
What neil is saying is infact true, a window cleaned with wfp is actually sterile meaning you could take the window out and eat your dinner off of it, its that clean. It would also stay cleaner for much longer because in such sterile conditions it takes longer for dirt etc to build up.
Your Wrong Agian!!!
ProPole
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Your Wrong Agian!!!
What??? ???
I thought Squeaky was never wrong? ;)
Andy
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Your Wrong Agian!!!
What??? ???
I thought Squeaky was never wrong? ;)
Andy
I never said that, he is allways wrong.
ProPole
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You said of Squeaky - "You're wrong again". I was simply being carcastic in saying that he was never wrong. ::)
Andy
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Actually I'm not wrong, you're all just biased and can't face facts. ;)
You wouldn't want to eat your dinner off it, believe me.
Where as you use washing up liquid to clean your plates that you eat off.
So there you go.
You wouldn't eat out at a place where they just rinse cutlery with water!!!! ;D ;D
All those spots are dirt!
You lot are so dumb sometimes. ;D ;D LOL.
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You wouldn't eat out at a place where they just rinse cutlery with water!!!!
I would if they had used pure water and scrubbed them first before rinsing :)
All those spots are dirt!
I don't get spots on any windows that I clean with WFP ;)
Andy
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Andy ;D ;D
Squeaky I dont get spots either!
Also "Sterile" means totally clean. Babies bottles are cleaned with pure water before there packaged, so they are sterile therefore nothing can be cleaner!!
Pro
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On double glazed windows, if the weather conditions are just right, then you WILL get condensation on the outer pane of glass.
If it is a breezy night then any condensation will have gone by the time the customer wakes up.
Another thing that may induce the glass to condensate is the fact that there is no film of detergent left on the glass.
That film may well me next to invisible, but with any window cleaned trad it will always be there.
Probably makes very little difference in truth, but it may be the difference between it condensating one day and not on another day.
Either way, there is nothing you can do about condentsation no matter how it happens.
Ian
Oh dear, squeaks has to chip in and take a pop at WFP on a WFP thread again....
And in a very specific way he is utterly wrong...
Glass cleaned with purified water can be ultra clean, it is used in the optical world and in labs to clean glass to incredibly high standards.
Outdoors of course we have the weather to contend with, but Neil is absolutely right, and time after time you will clean windows to a very high standard with WFP, Roger doesn't use WFP so only has anecdotal evidence, he has no real knowledge or understanding of WFP, or even of just how clean you can get windows using it.
In the right hands it does a fully top rate job, so much so that you will often read of those who use it saying how much longer the glass stays cleaner.
And for Roger to make the claim that it can't do the job as good as can do it....
Dude, I keep offering to prove to you just how good a job WFP can do, and every time you find an excuse to bottle out of it.
Just as you will get poor Trad window cleaners, you will get poor WFP window cleaners.
It isn't the tools being used that do a poor job, it is the person wielding the tool that does either a good or bad job.
Ian
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Squeeky like Ian said every time you are given the cahnce to prove yourself against a water fed pole operator you dont seem to respond.
And with all the mouth you give regarding how crap water fed poles are etc etc your lucky no one has issued you with a liable suit as im sure youve probablly slagged alot of the window cleaners on here to your customers and other people.No person on here has even said that cleaning windows by hand is usless because we have all at some time cleaned by hand but have invested our time and money into this equipment thats allows us to clean windows to a good standard but something you have so often rubbished.
Take note just because you are on a website forum you may think you are exempt form th following.
English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which defame a named or identifiable individual or individuals in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.
A statement can include an implication. "A window cleaner who uses a water fed pole cannot do a better job than someone with a squeegge because water fed poles do not work.
The allowable defences against libel are:
Justification: the defendant proves that the statement was true. If the defence fails, a court may treat any material produced by the defence to substantiate it, and any ensuing media coverage, as factors aggravating the libel and increasing the damages.
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Oh dear, squeaks has to chip in and take a pop at WFP on a WFP thread again....
Dude, I keep offering to prove to you just how good a job WFP can do, and every time you find an excuse to bottle out of it.
Ian
This is true, Roger. Ian has time and again given you the opportunity to show how trad. is superior to wfp - so why do you not stand by your words and prove him wrong?
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Squeaky, I don't know where you are coming from mate. I didn't lose my trad skills all of a sudden because I use WFP.
Like most guys on here that use it, we still clean some windows trad. Believe me,
After many years in the game, I have to hold my hands up and be honest.
WFP DOES A BETTER JOB THAN I CAN TRAD. I'm not a bad window cleaner using trad methods, after all I've kept my customers happy for many years doing them that way. If you can do the outsides on a sunny day, then do the insides and find not a single mark on the glass when you have finished. Well you are a better man than me mate, and I am in awe of you. Dai
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I've got nothing to prove. ;)
My methods are already proven, and accepted by everyone as the best.
Every time I see wfp used it's left spots.
We went to Burger King in Cardiff last week and my missus said "windows done with wfp weren't they!?"
When I looked up to the light I could see what a mess they were. :o
How we laughed. ;D
We stayed at a Travel Inn not long back, and what a surprise....spotty windows.
The old folks home I do which is sometimes also done by the council...spotty windows.
3 or 4 shops Ian himself does in town...yep, complained to me about spotty windows.
See a pattern emerging here?
You think Ian doing a job carefully when he knows I'm inspecting it is going to prove all this wrong?
I don't think so. ;D
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We have lots of happy WFP customers
This is a e-mail from a very happy new customer 8)
Good morning Andrew,
I have tried to contact your office by phone but have got no reply so have resorted to modern technology!!
I wanted to speak to you to discuss a regular cleaning programme of the windows here at Avon Tyrrell. The result you achieved with your system was above expectations and your approach to H & S fully met our requirements on this site. I thought that a quarterly clean would be sufficient starting in January next year. Also as mentioned when you where here, there are several windows inside which due to their height and location I would like to be add to your ‘round’ if that is possible.
Please call me at your convenience.
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Your right sqeaky, WFP may leave a few spots, but my customers don't notice or never complain about them.
I may leave a few spots on the occasional window but I used to leave a few streaks when I was trad. The windows may have looked perfect when I did them but they wern't. I bet most guys have been collecting on winter nights, and seen streaks on the glass when the lights on inside and the cutains are open.
It's not possible to see what streaks you leave when customers have net curtains up either.
Squeaks I am being honest, I had occasional complaints when I was trad, I don't get any now though. So what does that tell you? I am a concienses window cleaner and always try and do a perfect job every time.
An old shiner once told be "theres no such thing as a perfectly clean window"
Our work would not stand up to forensic examination.
I'm closer to it now though than ever I was before.
I can speak from experience that you have not had yet. If you had used WFP and packed it up to go trad, your arguments would have some validity.
Theres none as blind as those that don't want to see.
Not having a go at you squeaks, or any other trad guys. I still am one for some of my work. But your arguements would have some meaning if they were coming from your personel experience with using WFP.
I do think your more than a bit of a wind up artist though, and enjoying the attention your posts provoke on this forum.
Don't stop though, it sometimes keeps things interesting. Dai
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Name the shops Roger.
One may have been the shop Em works in,....was kind of justified at that point, there were spots on the glass, hands up, I'll admit it, but that was the only time, and I'll also warrent that if they attempted to clean the insides they would also find fault were it done trad (as I have no option but to do it now due to the windows being leaky)
Whether done with squeegee or scrim/microfibre you will either find kicks from the squeegee due to the size of the glass (just like I watched you leaving on the paintshop on almost every pane you squeeged...trust me mate, I've employed window cleaners for years and I assure you I know what to look for, and if you cleaned the inside of those windows those kicks would show up, and I know full well because as you know I did inside and out of those windows every 2 weeks for several years when it was an opticians)
You also made an aside some months ago about the chinese furniture shop...reckoned you saw spots.....you did indeed see them....they were inside and the owner pointed out these spots in the belief they were outside....a single wipe with a cloth proved otherwise.
You also made several comments about the large fabric shop too, never a single flaw on that place...ever, and I'll challenge you to prove me wrong, when I told you I would take it up with the owner you were very reticent about me doing so, when I did he told me he never even knew you and had never spoken to you about them (or his wife who you said approached you at traffic lights).
Take a look at those windows...you could not get near that standard of clean, don't forget, I do the entire frontage and all of the paintwork all the way around.
If you are going to accuse me of poor work on an open forum, be very sure of your facts, and be prepared to back them up, because I most certainly am.
Go along to a job no more than an hour or so after I've cleaned them, the glass will have dried and at that point, if you can fault my work I'll eat my hat.
I have perhaps a half dozen shop windows where WFP is not the best tool for the job, and yes, I still use WFP on them, georgian and awkward height being the reason.
Mistakes occasionally happen, nobody is pefect, but you are utterly wrong in your assumption that WFP does a poor job, you keep bleating on about it, claiming time after time that it is not the equal of Trad, and then claim you have nothing to prove when offered the chance to either prove or disprove your claims.
In fact on one thread when pushed about the offer, you claimed something along the lines of, 'Whats the point? Ian will make sure he does a perfect job.'
DUH!!!
Hello??? That my friend is the whole bloody point!
And I'll do it at the very least as fast as you will and the frames, doors and surrounds will also be done >:(
And the bigger the job, the faster it will be done relative to what you could do it in.
Your own personal comments have once again turned a perfectly reasonable thread into Trad v WFP.
And you are also implying I don't do a good job...something I have never, ever said about you. (until now perhaps, you get paid a very good price for that paintshop....when was the last time you bothered to clean the panes of glass directly above the door? I was charging almost half what you are getting and I did them every time without fail, skipping windows was something I never did.
Ian
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Sqeaks, you've backed yourself into a corner there. :-\
Wouldn't it be easier just to admit that you don't like wfp? You don't have to have a reason as we are all entitled to think what we will.
I don't like wfp one bit, not so much for the quality of work, although I've yet to see a perfect job, but I find it so much hassle. That is my opinion and experience and I accept it may possibly be wrong but if other window cleaners are content doing the job wfp, then more power to their elbow, and shoulders, and aching arms..etc.
Last week a window cleaner I know stopped for a chat while I was doing some windows with wfp and he went on about how useless wfp was. I kept saying to him that it does the job I want done and to the standard I want it done to. And that is the point. If I or someone else is happy with wfp, let them be that way even if the windows are all spotty or not.
Cheers
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....when was the last time you bothered to clean the panes of glass directly above the door? I was charging almost half what you are getting and I did them every time without fail, skipping windows was something I never did.
Funny that. They told me not to bother with them.
That woman did approach me at the lights about taking over, yes.
How would I have known which account it was, or what car she drives, or what he looked like otherwise?
The other ones?
Threshers as you said.
Equilibrium who dropped you, and asked for a "proper" cleaner (their words not mine).
The other one being Cancer Research, although it's probably new people now, so they may be fine with it.
I've never doubted the standard of your skills, you're probably the best about.
I learnt from you, so you must be. :P
I just don't rate the system you use.
You're better than that.
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LOL - This is funny lads... Keep it up, it's like being back at school :D
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:-X i only asked for advice, didnt want to start a fight
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F?
Threshers as you said.
Equilibrium who dropped you, and asked for a "proper" cleaner (their words not mine).
The other one being Cancer Research, although it's probably new people now, so they may be fine with it.
I just don't rate the system you use.
You're better than that.
As I said, apart from that one occasion, the Threshers shop was absolutely perfect everytime they were done.
Their were spots on Equilibrium...yet again they were all on the inside, I even pointed it out to the woman who owns the shop, and also pointed out why they were there (was from one of those water features, water was splashing gently onto small rocks and was then splashing onto the glass)
And you might have had that shop for a week or two, but she dumped you for Simon...who she wanted all the time anyway.
The shop that was Cancer Research is now How Bazaar, the chinese furniture shop....I never used WFP on it while it was Cancer research, and I also explained in my last reply where those spots were....inside not outside.
If the owner asked you about it, it's a shame you didn't take a proper look at the job, you would have seen for yourself.
But even so, all your evidence is yet again anecdotal.
You also mentioned a hotel and a ....was it a burger King?
I've looked at many Macdonalds and other fast food places, and no end of other shops or offices, and time and again I've seen awful window cleaning standards, and always done Trad.
Poor squeegee work, frames and sills not done, no detailing.
This doesn't make Trad window cleaning a crap method of cleaning windows does it?
It means the person doing the work has very poor standards.
It ain't the tools being used.
And as for me being better than that...I am doing a better overall job than I've ever done before, the reason being that WFP can do a far deeper and more thorough clean, and THAT is an indisputable fact.
You can get into every nook and crannie of a window and frame, you can flush out muck from areas you can't get to by hand.
Some windows I still have to do trad because they are unsuitable for WFP, the glass is as clean as I can get them, but all the time I know that if these windows were in better condition, I'd do a better job with WFP...Even if, as Dai said, a few spots are left now and again.
And those two panes of glass above that door??
They have told you to leave them Roger...but there is no way I could follow that instruction myself, I just couldn't NOT clean them, it is right above the only entrance, it makes the job you do look bad.
Even I don't need a ladder to reach those 2 little panes, and you are taller than me.
that dirt on the bottom edge really draws the eye, you leave everything else lovely and clean looking, but you leave that one area dirty, for 20 seconds work it isn't worth it, and considering how much you get for that job it always surprises me that you leave it.
Sorry Rugby dude!
On my first reply I started out only replying to your original question, then went to post and saw that Squeaky just had to reply and turn it into the usual debate...something he always moans about on other threads.
Ian
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On my first reply I started out only replying to your original question, then went to post and saw that Squeaky just had to reply and turn it into the usual debate...something he always moans about on other threads.
What a change for you to blame me Ian.
It had already become that before I said anything. ::)
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Had this problem with one window when after cleaning it with WFP it would
steam up. Told the customer it was do to a crack in his seal as the
condensation was in between the pains.
He had a ten year guarantee which was due to run out, called out the
window company and they agreed the seal had gone and replaced his
window.
Thank me for WFP finding the problem. ;D
Duff windows WFP will always find the problem. ;D. These we then pass onto
to the likes of Squeeky ;D
Doug
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On my first reply I started out only replying to your original question, then went to post and saw that Squeaky just had to reply and turn it into the usual debate...something he always moans about on other threads.
What a change for you to blame me Ian.
It had already become that before I said anything. ::)
No it hadn't, I've just read through every reply up until yours Roger, and every one was offering advice or giving examples of what they had come across.
You were the sole instigator of Trad v WFP.
If you are alluding to what Neil said, then you are wrong, his statement was accurate. He certainly made no mention of WFP being better than trad, and no one else did as far as I can tell.
The vast majority of us who use WFP are also very experienced Trad window cleaners, and unlike you, where WFP is concerned we actually know what we are talking about.
And remember, I never make claims on here that I'm not prepared to back up.
Ian
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If you are alluding to what Neil said, then you are wrong, his statement was accurate. He certainly made no mention of WFP being better than trad, and no one else did as far as I can tell.
Accurate?
He said he did a better job now.
If couldn't do it properly trad then that's his problem.
He shouldn't wrongly assume he's better than any other trad guys.
If he hadn't started his usual high-horse stuff I wouldn't have said anything.
I certainly had no gripe with anyone else before then.
It was perfectly good reading.
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The problem with wfp is that they clean windows to a very high standard, so if there are imperfections in the glass they will show up. They may never have noticed it before with trad w/c but it stands out more with wfp.
Nel.
;D ;D ;D Don't start that crap again!
You can't clean windows to anywhere near my (or any other proper w/c's) standard.
Don't fill people's heads with rubbish please, it doesn't help the forum.
This is where things go wrong. It seems Squeaky read Nel's comment in the context it was meant, but it didn't really explain things clearly at all.
ie. Wfp can clean windows to a high standard. However, using copious amounts of cold water against the glass to clean it will reveal weaknesses in the seal of any type of window. These may not have shown up using an applicator and squeegee. Bear in mind the fault is really with the window, not the method of cleaning.
As with all of us, if our statements are not accurate, expect them to be challenged! No amount of vocabulary will alter the ensuing argument if what we say is bigotted!
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The problem with wfp is that they clean windows to a very high standard, so if there are imperfections in the glass they will show up. They may never have noticed it before with trad w/c but it stands out more with wfp.
Nel.
In what way did Neil slag off Trad? What Neil said was perfectly accurate, done properly the glass itself is cleaner than trad, sorry mate, but you get it right then it is.
You will have also cleaned the frames to a very high standard.
You get it wrong then you can really screw up, and on the odd window pane you may get the odd dribble or spot, but by and large, if you are good at what you do then the finish you get will at the very least be as good as you can obtain with trad, and you have the added bonus of not having any residue left on the glass, thereby leaving the job 'cleaner' than you could get it done trad.
And as I keep telling you, if you don't believe me then come out with me for an hour and I'll prove it to you.
Tosh covered my work for me while I was away in spain for a week, and apart from a single run on the inside of the Stroud and Swindon, and even after a week of pretty foul weather, finished off with several hours of fairly torrential rain yesterday, I coun't find fault with the work he did for me, and believe me, I was looking!!
Now he didn't use WFP on everything I know, but I couldn't tell what he did trad and what he did WFP.
And if I couldn't tell, then you sure as hell wouldn't be able to.
to all intents and purposes, WFP is easily the equal of Trad...providing you have someone using it who knows what they are doing.
Ian
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Tosh covered my work for me while I was away in spain for a week, and apart from a single run on the inside of the Stroud and Swindon, and even after a week of pretty foul weather, finished off with several hours of fairly torrential rain yesterday, I coun't find fault with the work he did for me, and believe me, I was looking!!
Ian
Hey,
The (Stroud and Swindons) have these big-wooden-display signs in the middle of all their windows. You've got to be a bloody spider-monkey to get to the glass!
(Only joking Ian, I know it's a compliment. I'll be checking your work more closely from now on! ;D)
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Quote from Ian Giles:
"Done properly the glass is cleaner than trad"
"I couldn't tell what he did trad, and what he did wfp"
??? :-\
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We did a new job today. The previous w/c couldn't get to the place (a medium sized resendentual home) at the times she was available but as we are right near her every week, the job got passed to us.
She had only one condition. That we do the job wfp because in the past she's used normal window cleaners and the last bloke had converted her to wfp.
That's a first for me.
I know it's the opposite to the threads heading.
Right.... back to the pregnant doging. ;D
I meant back to the b i t c h i n g. This is a pc correct forum.
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The (Stroud and Swindons) have these big-wooden-display signs in the middle of all their windows. You've got to be a bloody spider-monkey to get to the glass!
I used to hate doing that for Ian. >:(
Long arms help, but you need to be Mr.Tickle. ;D
Oh, and I'm not surprised Tosh did a good job for you Ian, he took long enough. ;D
While he did the top two floors of The Coach & Horses I did the entire in and out of the downstairs of The Kings Head including both sides of the georgian porch!
These speedy wfp'ers! ;D
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The (Stroud and Swindons) have these big-wooden-display signs in the middle of all their windows. You've got to be a bloody spider-monkey to get to the glass!
I used to hate doing that for Ian. >:(
Long arms help, but you need to be Mr.Tickle. ;D
Oh, and I'm not surprised Tosh did a good job for you Ian, he took long enough. ;D
While he did the top two floors of The Coach & Horses I did the entire in and out of the downstairs of The Kings Head including both sides of the georgian porch!
These speedy wfp'ers! ;D
Squeaky,
The day I did that job, I made close to 200 quid. Today, I made over 200 quid. I've nearly double the customers you have, yet I've been in the trade for half the time you have. I'd be surprised if you make more than 500 quid a week; in a good week.
In the street where you live, I refuse to clean the windows of the people who live there, since they're generally bad-paying council-house customers. Besides, no-one could charge more than a fiver for them.
Please don't take the urine out of me in your posts, I'm trying to avoid you in these stupid posts you stick up, but I won't pull any punches if you continue.
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Maybe it has more to do with what each is happy doing and earning than who is better?
It's like ping pong ball or tennis.
Anyway, it's good reading.
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All this bickering! What a shame.
Sorry, but, put Ian Giles, Squeaky Clean & Tosh in a thread together... they turn it into a Chepstow squabble. At best...distracting.
The original post however is very intriguing:
Condensation on the outside of a window cleaned over a week previous!
How does condensation, appearing on the outside of a window 10 or 11 days after a window cleaner has been have any possible connection?
If someone called me to say their path was damp below their window 10 days after I had been, regardless of the method I was using to clean their windows, I would conclude they were being, at the very least totally unreasonable. I would be glad of the loss of such a nutter!
How these interesting topics get so off track is often to do with the Chepstow 3!
Sorry guys, you do spice things up though. ;D
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The day I did that job, I made close to 200 quid. Today, I made over 200 quid. I've nearly double the customers you have, yet I've been in the trade for half the time you have. I'd be surprised if you make more than 500 quid a week; in a good week.
Just shows you've got high prices that's all.
I've seen now that you're not fast with your magic pole at all!
Don't forget you work a lot more hours than me.
I put my feet up or play golf while you're slogging away. ;D
In the street where you live, I refuse to clean the windows of the people who live there, since they're generally bad-paying council-house customers. Besides, no-one could charge more than a fiver for them.
Nor do I... ::)
Never have.
You do all those areas, I do the classy places.
What a stroppy reply just because I found out you're not as quick as you reckon!
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In defense of Squeaky Clean, over the last year(s) we lost loads of customers because of wfp but not one because of us using trad methods. Even if there was windows we could not do trad style.
As for the wfp v trad thing. I'm hard put to say which is better or in some cases quicker but I cannot deny the increased profits using wfp.
Cheers
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Squeaks points out that he was like greased lightning compared to Tosh on one particular account, but on that same account (the pub) I did the entire pub front while he was doing the paintshop, which is a fairly small shop opposite opposite the Kings head that he said he cleaned.
It is perhaps a little unfair to compare how quickly Tosh did an account he's never done before to one that Squeaks does every 2 weeks.
and of course every time Roger brags about how much quicker he than some guy using WFP he puts himself up there to be shot at.
It was his constant claims that he is quuicker than WFP that first stung me into offering him the chance to prove it.
Ditto on a trad challenge to clean a single large pane of glass.
PJ is right of course...threads often go off course, and at times the Chepstow three are at fault (although if you check out the back pages you will find I've always stayed on topic and done my best to offer good advice before I veer away off course)
But also, as we are so very local to one another, any false claims can be called to account, or, if only Squeaks would have the nerve to take up the challenge, to either prove or disprove the fact that WFP can indeed be the equal of Trad and can be done faster and doesn't always leave spots.
Squeaks being the forums most rabid WFP hater is the perfect person to use, if either Tosh or myself were to be wrong in whatever our claims are then Squeaks could shout it from the rooftops to all and sundry.
If he is right that WFP leaves spots all the time, then he can hark back to the fact that even when we were trying our best not to leave spots or do a poor job we couldn't manage it.
claims of being faster than Trad on a straight forward semi??
Once more he could put us in our place and deride other's claims of speed from a position of authority.
So when Squeaks comes out with a false statement, like; 'I've got nothing to prove. ;)
My methods are already proven, and accepted by everyone as the best.
At the moment he can be taken to task over it, because it sure as hell has not been proven.
but unfortunately he isn't prepared to stand up and be counted, I'm saying he has got something to prove...his above statement for one thing!
And I get up early and can't stop myself waffling on and on :-X
Only stopping when I have to go to work....which is now ;D
Ian
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Squeaks points out that he was like greased lightning compared to Tosh on one particular account, but on that same account (the pub) I did the entire pub front while he was doing the paintshop, which is a fairly small shop opposite opposite the Kings head that he said he cleaned.
It is perhaps a little unfair to compare how quickly Tosh did an account he's never done before to one that Squeaks does every 2 weeks.
Ian, I never once said I was quicker than you.
All I pointed out is Tosh saying he's quicker than me now, which is proved to be miles out. ;D
He made statements like "Squeaky thinks he can clean quicker than wfp" etc..etc..
Feels an offensive claim from someone who does the front of a pub while I do a £25 in & out....
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You miss the point dude, I wasn't saying how much faster I am, merely highlighting the difference between someone doing a job for someone else for the first time and making sure it is done properly.
Like you with the Kings head, I do this one every 2 weeks, been WFPing it for the last 2 and a half years so I know exactly how fast I can go to get the job done to a good standard.
On one of Tosh's regular accounts you would find it to be a very different affair I'm sure.
Ian
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Come off it guys. Does it really matter who is quickest and what method they use?
This is starting so sound like an argument about who has got the biggest plonker. :)
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its funny though ain't it? ;D
nothing like a good slagging match ;)
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I don't like arguing with lying fools! ;D
So won't do it again.
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I don't like arguing with lying fools! ;D
So won't do it again.
Yeah of course I'm lying....I just made it up.
That pub took you 5 minutes really.... ::)
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Have,nt we heard all this b######s before :-\
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Come on Tosh , this is better than telly. ;D
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Sorry guys. You know my policy on arguing.
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Slow coach sissy girl!
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Ouch, that hurts.
I want my rubbish Unger rubbers back.
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Sorry Tosh, there should have been some ;D ;D after.
I know your not a slow coach.
Ps the rubbers were shoved up the Donkey!! ;)
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Ive had customers tell me that wfp isnt as good as traditional cleaning,what i say is let me clean it and ill come back for the money tomorrow,if you are not convinced that the windows are cleaner when done this way keep the money in your purse. Generally i am met with an apology when i go back as the windows are always better with wfp.
Cleaners that slag wfp off to people in the hope of getting a few more customers are ballsing it up for themselves as much as anyone else as sooner or later they will have to change over to compete.
Invest in your business,the days are gone when a ladder and scruffy old motor will do.Todays customers expect more,if you cant give it some other cleaner will.
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Ive had customers tell me that wfp isnt as good as traditional cleaning,what i say is let me clean it and ill come back for the money tomorrow,if you are not convinced that the windows are cleaner when done this way keep the money in your purse. Generally i am met with an apology when i go back as the windows are always better with wfp.
Cleaners that slag wfp off to people in the hope of getting a few more customers are ballsing it up for themselves as much as anyone else as sooner or later they will have to change over to compete.
Invest in your business,the days are gone when a ladder and scruffy old motor will do.Todays customers expect more,if you cant give it some other cleaner will.
I'm not even going to do that justice by commenting. ;D
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Why not ?
* years ago when I started, I guessed it would give me a 5 year advantage. Well they are still all trad round here, so maybe I have another 5 years head start,... again. Keep it up Squeeks cause it give us old farts a standing start. So I can earn the extra money and I may be still going at 62 earning the same. I hope so. I also hope you are as well.
ps dont knock it too much to your punters there may come a day, which I know you will not think will come where you may need to go wfp, so dont burn your bridges. I mean this with the best thoughts to you. Please carry on knocking wfp and we may agree to differ.
Why ? THE MONEY. :)
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Why ? THE MONEY. :)
I agree.
Mine costs sod all.
Your's costs loads. ;)
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Great debate lads - Ian if this was someone else bickering instead of you and the squeeky one then the thread would have been locked.
Squeeks, stop burning bridges for yourself - you will change over some day. I can assure the hse are going to start enforcing WAHD2005, trust me, with some of the higher jobs you've mentioned in the past you will have no hope of doing them. You go on about how much cleaner you leave your customers windows, better job and faster blah blah blah thats all it is, spend a day with a good wfper and you will see just how slow youreally are in comparison - Turbo Terry couldn't keep up, its the difference between walking and driving a car.
I'm confident I'm faster with the squeegee than you, faster up and down the ladders, and yet with wfp I am miles faster again, actually I'm probably twice or3 times as fast, I still make £40 an hour and we have probably the lowest prices in Britain in my part of the country (£5 for a 3 bed semi on average).
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It seams Squeaks took exception to my earlier post and as been back on his wfp Bashing crusade yet again.
I would of posted a reply sooner but I have been spending my spare time this last month test driving 2 seater sports cars and haggling over getting a good deal on one. Its all sorted now and its being deliverd tommorw.
Just a mention to spice things up, the car as been bought out of the extra income I have made from wfp over the last 6 months. That is what I have earned extra compared to the same time the year before when I was just Trad. It includes the purchase of a private REG number to be fitted to the car. It spells NEL by the way.I still have enough change left over out of the extra profits of wfp to take my beloved to Tennerife in December. Thats just from the last 6 months by the way.
Now the financial benefits of wfp over trad go without saying, if you have got a good business head on you.
Now I know some are not intrested in making a lot of money. They are quite happy to charge £5 for a house when they could have charged £10. Thats up to them.
But Squeaks brings the point back to the debating table that Trad is better then wfp. What utter Tripe.
Squeaks reminds me of the modern Historian who claims the German holocaust never actually happened, Its just a modern fabrication. I have seen this Historian interviwed, (though his name eludes me at present) and despite overwhelming evidence that as been presented before him. He just refuses to acknowledge it.
No matter what we say as to the benefits or to the high standard you can clean a window with wfp, Squeaks will allways shoot us down. Verbally that is.
But under carful examination of Squeaks posts I have now unfortunately come to the overwhelming conclusion that as far as w/c advice goes. He speaks tripe :o :o :o
If you are thinking of switching to wfp from trad then you will get a lot of good advice on this forum. But unfortunately some have got trad blinkers on and cannot see the bigger picture.
Its not True that people only switch to wfp because they are no good at trad w/c.I cleaned trad for a quarter of a Century, and I can match any w/c in the world for speed and quality at trad cleaning on real houses. But in my opionion wfp on a house with No frame issues or faulty seals will clean the glass to a higher standard. FACT. :o
Nel
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Its not True that people only switch to wfp because they are no good at trad w/c.I cleaned trad for a quarter of a Century, and I can match any w/c in the world for speed and quality at trad cleaning on real houses. But in my opionion wfp on a house with No frame issues or faulty seals will clean the glass to a higher standard. FACT. :o
Nel
I think you're the blinkered one mate.
Just because it's cost you so much money.... ::)
As for JM123, that's the biggest load of arse I've read on here in a long time.
If you're going to try and quote me, get it right.
I've said many times I don't take on anything above average 1st floor height.
Just because something is newer doesn't make it better.
A lot can be said of cars for a start.
You've just fallen for a gimmick. A fad...It'll pass. ;D
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Why ? THE MONEY. :)
I agree.
Mine costs sod all.
Your's costs loads. ;)
Yeah but we can afford it cos we work faster ;D
Starting to sound a bit circular this isn't it LOL?
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Hi Neil
The historian you mentioned is David Irvin I think he was put in prison in
another country.
what was the car you bought?
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Why ? THE MONEY. :)
I agree.
Mine costs sod all.
Your's costs loads. ;)
Well, my wfp set up was £1400 initially and I've "grown it" over the past year and so total spend has been £2000. Spread that over the 20 months I've been wfp'ing and that's about £100 per month.
I've not gone out to set the world alight, but by just pruning a bit here and adding a bit there to my round my turnover has gone up by £6000 per year, I work safer, I'm less tired and as for my vehicle - I still use the 15 year old car I was using for trad.
Squeaky, I don't live the high life, but I don't sit in McDonalds pointing out spots on the windows to my wife and justifying my lack of commercial wisdom by telling her it's because of the method used and not because of the person using the equipment.
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Thanks Mr Woods,
The car I have bought is aToyota mr2. Its got an hard top, Leather, air con, the works. I was after the model with an smt gearbox.Quite rare. So you change gear with no clutch. You have a gear lever which you move towards you to change up or towards the bonnet to change down. Or you can use the buttons on the steering wheel to change up or down gear.
Its a little belter, its only done 9300 miles. So just run in. I was in two minds for ages weather to go for the porsche Boxter or the toyota. The running costs of the porsche scared me a little. I have never had a roadster so I did not want to buy a new one as its only going to be a weekend toy.
Tell a lie, I wanted a motorbike but I dont know if my marriage would survive if I got one. hell I dont know if I would of remained in one piece if I had gone back to the bike. I could never resist racing anyone.
I started saving for a new mazda mx5 in March this year. I now have saved enough but could not part with all that cash for a new one which will sit in the garage most of the time. I dont like the old mazda mx5 shape car exept for the original with pop up headlights. I also wanted one with a manual roof.
I am now putting the rest of my money into a new fund and starting to save to replace my ageing 406 with the new Audi TT. Its great when your kids grow up and have their own cars.
And since I went wfp the money comes in a lot faster then it ever did trad w/c.
What do you drive?
Have you a car Squeaks? Or do you carry your ladders on a trolley or converted pram? ;D ;D :D ;)
Nel.
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Oh dear, hope it's not crappy girly new MR2. :-\
The old one was a proper blokes raw sports car, especially the import turbo models.
The new one is a feeble hairdressers runabout. ;D
...and yes I've driven them both (and the mk1) before you start the usual lines. ;)
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stick to window cleaning please, and less of the insults about other peoples choice in cars Rog.
Sneering at people in that way is not allowed on the forum, others are also getting close to a rap on the knuckles for their tone too.
Ian
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Sneering at people in that way is not allowed on the forum, others are also getting close to a rap on the knuckles for their tone too.
Ian
Yeah sorry, that's precisely why it came about.
It's true though. ;D ;D
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Can someone lock this thread?
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Your wish is my command Bear.....
time to lock this one up....
Ian