Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: garry on October 16, 2006, 02:37:45 pm
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In my view a load of c**p, last year got 6 issues all great this new one complete rubbish. If i want to read about playstations or xbox i would buy xbox mag or mens health for the gym not a window cleaning mag.
sorry philip hanson but i think you made a complete balls up with this new mag >:(
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No, I liked it. It also gave me something to read while waiting for a thunderstorm to pass.
I think the first issues were interesting, but dry, but this one's more entertaining; yet still informative. I suppose it's a case of not being able to please all of the people all of the time.
It's still very anti-ladder though. Why can't the magazine take the point of view of rules are rules, but in the real world window cleaners will use ladders and continue to use ladders, no matter what the rules are?
Obviously, it would be daft to suggest that the magazine should encourage window cleaners to break the law, but I think ardent ladder users will be put off purchasing the magazine. On the other hand, at least the editor has the courage to state how the WAHD affects window cleaners, without 'fannying about' the subject.
I'd also like more content, whether it's window cleaning, or just 'blokish' related, but that will probably evolve with time.
In all, I'd give it an 8 out of 10, and with time hopefully that'll get better. Remember, it's still early days.
I'll continue to subscribe.
Cheers for a good read, Philip.
PS.
My only real critisizm is that that lady who introduces each portion of the mag should be in a swim suit; rather than being covered in all those clothes! ;)
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I agree what a load of rubbish nothing really new in there at all.
Why have half the mag full of non window cleaning stuff and the articals on window cleaning issues are really naf!!
I liked the old format and will not be re-subscribing!! >:(
Stuart
SAJ Window Cleaners
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Do you remember the soft porn magazine called Mayfair?
I've never purchased one, in fact I've probably not seen one since I was about 13 years old when I found my older-brother's stash of magazines; honest!
Anyway, this mag was a best-seller in it's day, yet still contained articles about cars, smoking, shaving, etc; it wasn't all soft porn.
Even daily newspapers run serial books and have many non-news related items in them.
It's obviously a winning formula.
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Oh dear - where do I start. >:( and I suspect you know this is coming Philip.
IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO
My biggest criticism of the new look mag is that it’s targeted SOLEY at men and subsequently off putting to us female readers.
Of what relevance is the scantily clad woman, provocatively holding the blade to the w/c cleaning industry – tentative to say the least. IMO the front page design is very reminiscent of a top shelf read. The totally unnecessary use of the female and her props continues – may I draw you to page 38 – what is the reason, why use this sexual pose and the prop to picturise a report of the benefits of alcohol. ::)
Its simple – the mag is targeted at men and that’s what you hope will sell it in the future. How many female w/c, wives, girlfriends have you now offended and alienated Philip?
Secondly, where are the pages entitled ‘Ladies stuff’ and pages of unrelated w/c articles on shoes, handbags and female gyms?
Having had, extensive years in advertising and marketing I thought the image needed updating and had you not decided to use the ‘sexy female’ hook, would have complimented you on the design upgrade.
I for one won’t be renewing my subscription as I found it full of non-relevant articles, which is not what I want out of a professional window cleaning magazine. I would not be happy if I were Ionics either - 6 of their promoted roadshow dates have already gone - that 37% of the advertised venues.
Of course, my opinion is biased and I don’t expect most men to agree but it’s certainly dropped down in my estimation of a high level, professional window cleaners reference Magazine.
Sarah 8)
(Now huddled in the corner awaiting the fallout) ;D
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I think its great maybe a bit more dirty women pics, jokes, maybe T.V page. It as to evolve and change with the industry and a mix of fun and more window cleaning issuses.It can always change again,
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Sarah,
How many female window cleaners are there in the UK? Not many I'd guess.
Apart from Wor Lass, whose a part-timer now I've went WFP (20 hours per week; tops); I only know one other (personally) and she's a part-timer too!
Neither of these female WC would buy the magazine, since they both window clean purely to escape the normal low paid jobs women do when they have young children. Remember, I'm not sexist in the least; honestly, and if anyone disputes this, I have some strong views on the subject.
It's us blokes who're sad enough to enjoy such a magazine; I doubt any window cleaning magazine would appeal to the brighter gender.
I'm guessing that if this magazine is to survive and prosper, it needs to apeal to the broader audience.
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Tosh,
I agree it has to change to survive but IMO its gone in the wrong direction.
My GUESS is that for every male w/c there is a female working behind the scenes, and in many cases, doing the paperwork, schedulling the work, ordering parts, sourcing suppliers, paying bills and actually w/c.
There are more than just a few on this forum who have their partners working with them at some point.
Believe me, I am no prude or sexist in any way shape or form but I cannot believe that Philip needs to go down this tacky route to keep the Mag alive. He has obviously taken advice (I assume after some Market research) and hope he has not made a grave mistake. So far on this thread there are 3 against and 2 for - if this is a reflection on other subscribers then he will have done.
Maybe Gary could change this into a poll so people who dont want to publically voice their opinion could vote in private :)
My point is, that he did not need to use this image to sell the magazines content. or maybe I'm wrong. Only time will tell.
Maybe he will include photos of a hunky, half dressed w/c displaying his tools next month.
LOL
Sarah
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Tosh, I know 3 lady WCers in my area and as you know its very rural round here. I've only spoken to one of them and that was today and she had only vaguely heard of WFP but wasnt realy interested in it anyway.
You could say that means if she saw the latest mag she may be even more put off if the posts on this thread are anything to go by!
JohnL
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It must be fairly difficult trying to fill pages every issue, there was a whole load of "white space" and magazine sponsor's various ads to wade through before anyway. Maybe that's what's behind the "extra" content.
I was one of the first to congratulate Phil when he mentioned starting up the mag, but this does it no favours at all and I'm sure there will be more than me not renewing their subscriptions..
It's 4-2 Sarah!
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I agree Wavie - its bl**dy hard filling a magazine, whatever its title and I dont wish failure on anyone.
There is a bigger picture though - get the content and balance of advertising/articles wrong and your on a slippery slope.
Get the image wrong and youv'e lost it immediately.
I know this all to well- I was responsible for launching a Glossy Wedding Magazine many years ago which failed because it felt TOO modern and contemporary. :'(
Its all about the feel when people pick it up and IMHO this one does not feel like a credible window cleaning magazine.
Sarah
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but this does it no favours
Davie,
What do you mean by 'this does it no favours' and the 'extra content'?
Do you mean this magazine is the political wing for the Ionics corporation, and this negates its value? Obviously a new mag such as this needs funding from somewhere.
A little common-sense helps you sort the wheat from the chaff.
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Hi Guys
It is never going to be easy producing a magazine for window cleaners
because the market is very small.
The vast majority of window cleaners are just not interested in reading
a magazine.
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Out of interest, how many subsribers got all their 6 copies? I know I only got 4. Dai
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I received 4 copies last year. I subscribed to a window cleaning magazine to keep me informed on window cleaning issues not flying cars. By the way I have got some of them powerisers on page 47 and they are great, you can clear a transit with a bit of practise.
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By the way I have got some of them powerisers on page 47 and they are great, you can clear a transit with a bit of practise.
I've asked for a set of those powerisers for my birthday. They look fun!
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Davie,
What do you mean by 'this does it no favours' and the 'extra content'?
To be honest, with the first year's issues I felt somehow cheated when they arrived. I was always thinking there would be more in the next issue which I couldn't dig up for myself either from search-engines or from boards like this. To be blunt, some boards have been raided for magazine articles.
I would say that there must be a minimum page per issue and a certain amount of magazines must be printed each time or the printers won't even look at it. As I mentioned, there was already a fair bit of white space to fill things out ,and padding that out with the "lad's mag" extra content really detracts from what there is on the w/c side. No offence to the model, but PWC should have splashed out on someone a bit classier and also used a photographer with better lighting - her pictures seem not quite in focus.
Do you mean this magazine is the political wing for the Ionics corporation, and this negates its value? Obviously a new mag such as this needs funding from somewhere.
Well, I'd signed up for a subscription before the funding issues came up. If I'd known that I'd be throwing my hard-earned at Ionics to pay to read all the adverts for them and the associated companies I'm sure I would have thought twice about it!
By the time you knock out these related ads, other ads, the non-w/c bits and the white space, there's not really all that much left to have a value to someone who thought they were buying a publication for window-cleaners, and who also uses the internet.
A little common-sense helps you sort the wheat from the chaff.
Which is probably why I felt cheated!
After all my negative comments, you can relate this upgrade to you and me putting up our prices - you know you're going to lose some, but that should be outweighed by the gains you'll make. I sincerely hope Phil will gain more than he loses.
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I dont like it, you have to go to page 9 before you find a window cleaning article , not including adverts.
For me I wanted to read about window cleaning issues, I dont mind all the adds, he has to help fund it . As for the model he would of been better using Texas girl ( where ever she is now )
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Tosh , Beware, try them on astro turf first and don't get too confident. It's a good idea to get some skateboard sort of pads for your elbows and knees, my mate broke both wrists trying to out run a dog chasing a ball, oh and a helmet, he also tried them in an underground car park and gashed his head on the sprinklers. Well worth the money though. Try wearing just one each and having a game of tick, it's even funnier when you've had a few beers.
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My first reaction was one of embarrassment. It's a dumbed-down mag for a dumbed down "Sun-reader" male audience. But, hey! the Sun format sells papers.
So, in detail:-
The window cleaning stuff was good. But it was swamped by mindless drivel - I mean What's that "Bubble Over No.1" on page 10 all about? Blue Sky thinking - Pass by without blinking, more like!
Out of about 50 pages only pages 9, 11,12,13,half of 15,half of 16,17 one third of 19 and 20 were about window cleaning with a slight reference in the gym article on page 44. That's less than a fifth of the mag!
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a little non window cleaning content and I don't mind looking at pretty girls either - but one or two tasteful snippets/pictures as an extra to the main purpose of the mag would have been better.
(Sarah makes a good point - the ladies of the house do pick up this mag - especially this issue, and while I might have liked the small pic of the young lady on page 38, perhaps to even things up for the ladies they might have liked to see the window-cleaner guy from the coke ad of a few years back! ;D)
Seriously tho' is it worth £4.50? - frankly no! I'll carry on coming here to catch up on all that is going on in window cleaning thanks. And if any of my customers have got the Sun or the Mail in their canteen when I'm cleaning the insides I can have a peek at them then!
It's gone the wrong way in my view.
I would rather have a quarterly mag that was just about window cleaning than a bi-monthly one containing stuff about window cleaning and irrelevant drivel.
Is it worth £4.50 to me? No.
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and while I liked the small pic of the young lady on page 38
Like your style Malc ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I never bothered to sign up for it :-\ I think it will dwindle away there is only so much you can write about wc,and its tools etc,whats new ,er not much :-X it might be worth coming out 2 times a year then it might be jam packed with info thats of Interest :-\ by the sounds of it not many will renew :-\
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I have to agree that this is not what I was expecting through the post.
I wanted a Window Cleaning magazine for window cleaning not X-boxes and gym membership?
Really not sure why the need for this info? Maybe they have a secret x-box window cleaning game coming out and wanted to make sure we all have the right console to play it on?
Hate to say it but I actually think the Fed has a better publication?
oh well,
Trev
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i used to get the freebie version, with bits blanked out
i guess thats not happening :(
i like my Xbox though, infact got myself a 360 a few weeks ago ;)
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Really not sure why the need for this info? Maybe they have a secret x-box window cleaning game coming out and wanted to make sure we all have the right console to play it on?
They have its called poles & Ladders ;D ;D
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Funny isn't it, with the previous issues my partner just looked at me sadly and shook her head.
As soon as a girl appears on the cover her head dives into it, and within minutes she's onto the internet for a LED blue tap light which will cost me the equivilent of a couple of houses cleaning!
She also made the remark about lady window cleaners being neglected, which is fair, however I'm not volunteering to strip off and hold a squeegee that would really sink sales.
I think we will have to see where it goes but its a good idea and if comments on the forum are noted we should see a decent mag.
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She also made the remark about lady window cleaners being neglected, which is fair, however I'm not volunteering to strip off and hold a squeegee that would really sink sales.
Oh I dont know, I see some fit w/c's locally and have always wondered why you lot dont do a charity calendar- if I said womans institute you should get the idea.
Im sure a few strategically placed chamois' and buckets would go down a storm. ;D
Sarah
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big scrim needed to cover me 12 incher :o squeegee ;D
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Have heard you are pretty fast with it as well Terry!
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I am dissapointed with it to be honest. I want to know where are the best resin deals, insurance quotes etc. It's a bit difficult to give objective advice when you are dependent on a few advertisers isn't it?
Don't think I'll be renewing my subscription. I can learn more on here in an hour than I could in a year of the magazine. I want information not titivation. Dai
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I haven't read the magazine yet so will reserve judgement until i do. However, it must be pretty hard to fill a whole magazuseful infoine every 2 months just on window cleaning topics.
Information is the most valuable commodity you can possess. I would be quite happy paying a fiver for 20 pages if those pages give me some useful information.
If you get something helpful from it, you've recouped your £5 and some. THis has proven to be the case with the previous 6 issues.
SOme people though, don't value information. THey value entertainment. THe biggest selling magazines are not trade journals but those covering celeb marriages etc. It is because of these people that I believe PHilip has changed the format of the mag. He needs to sell more to make it a viable proposition.
Seems to me that you still get the 20 pages of useful stuff and he has merely added some extra content. I am I way off beam here?
Whether it rpoves to attract new business or alienate the existing readership remains to be seen.
Personally, I would stick with it. The magazine is still new and is constantly evolving. These comments will be read by Philip and his team and I'm sure they will be taken on board.
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SOme people though, don't value information. THey value entertainment. THe biggest selling magazines are not trade journals but those covering celeb marriages etc. It is because of these people that I believe PHilip has changed the format of the mag. He needs to sell more to make it a viable proposition.
Seems to me that you still get the 20 pages of useful stuff and he has merely added some extra content. I am I way off beam here?
Whether it rpoves to attract new business or alienate the existing readership remains to be seen.
Personally, I would stick with it. The magazine is still new and is constantly evolving. These comments will be read by Philip and his team and I'm sure they will be taken on board.
A vaild but misunderstood point.
The purpose of all the subscribers of this magazine isn't for light hearted irrelevant content but to find out more about the industry we work in, latest deals, updates etc.... Not to be enlightend about pc games, gadgets and gyms, we can buy FHM or Nuts or other similar editorials for that info.
An industry magazine is exactly that, INDUSTRY, subscribed to by people who are generally in that industry?
I may be wrong but I believe the majority of subscribers would agree that's why they purchase this magazine?
Trev
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just got my copy. Yep, I must admit preferred the old style. But, I AM a complete anorak when it comes to window cleaning. Maybe there just isn't enough information about window cleaning out there to fill a bi-monthly magazine?
How about the following regular slots:
1) FINANCE Have an accountant explain how to do our books, tax advice etc a little every issue
2) SAFETY How to do risk assesments. What COSHH means, insurance regs etc. Different area every issue
3) TOOLS & TECHNOLOGY All the latest stuff and some classics. Clothing, business cards etc
4) BIOGRAPHY different person from the industry each issue
5) ADVICE How to price jobs, special techniques, advertising etc
6) LETTERS/EMAILS inc. responses and reader's responses
7) NEWS what has been happening (cleaning related)
8) USEFUL NUMBERS/CONTACTS/WEBSITES same every time but updated each issue
9) AN INDEX of all back issues under the relevant topic
10) COMPETITION win promo stuff from a supplier (free advert for them, free stuff for the reader)
Also, pay people or give a gift to people for a good story. Reader's Digest do this and they are not mugs.
All the best Phil. Give me ring if you want to discuss.
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just got my copy. Yep, I must admit preferred the old style. But, I AM a complete anorak when it comes to window cleaning. Maybe there just isn't enough information about window cleaning out there to fill a bi-monthly magazine?
How about the following regular slots:
1) FINANCE Have an accountant explain how to do our books, tax advice etc a little every issue
2) SAFETY How to do risk assesments. What COSHH means, insurance regs etc. Different area every issue
3) TOOLS & TECHNOLOGY All the latest stuff and some classics. Clothing, business cards etc
4) BIOGRAPHY different person from the industry each issue
5) ADVICE How to price jobs, special techniques, advertising etc
6) LETTERS/EMAILS inc. responses and reader's responses
7) NEWS what has been happening (cleaning related)
8) USEFUL NUMBERS/CONTACTS/WEBSITES same every time but updated each issue
9) AN INDEX of all back issues under the relevant topic
10) COMPETITION win promo stuff from a supplier (free advert for them, free stuff for the reader)
Also, pay people or give a gift to people for a good story. Reader's Digest do this and they are not mugs.
All the best Phil. Give me ring if you want to discuss.
Now that's the best post in the thread Steve (IMO of course). It's so easy to knock change but it's not so easy to make positive suggestions. I definitely preferred the magazine the way it was (didn't get around to reading it till last night) but some of your suggestions are sound.
I am not going to cancel my sub because of one issue that did not meet my expectations. I know how I felt about complaints after some of my first WFP cleans. My thoughts were along the lines of "Hey. Give me a break. It will come good". Perhaps some of the guys on here may even want to contribute material for the next edition. Hopefully Phil would print contributions that he feels are OK? I've got a couple of ideas but am a bit busy right now. Maybe when the working day shortens appreciably I will have some time to knuckle down to it.
Are you up for receiving contributions eventually Phil?
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You have made a few good suggestions Steve, although why the consumer has to give the publisher ideas is beyond me. Surely that it the publishers job - find a market, source its requirements and fullfill those needs.
I assume that PWC had done its market research before this radical re-vamp ?.
For the sake of its future, I hope that Ionics and the editor take on board your suggestions Steve and listen to what we the consumer want from the Magazine. The old version was far better and yes it could have been improved and updated but IMHO its has now lost its credibility in the w/c marketpace.
Sarah
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A success story each month would be a winner. How some one got from a ladder and bucket to a fleet of vans, etc. They are always a good read.
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Hello
May I thank everyone who has taken the time to respond to this thread, I knew that Issue 8 of PWC would provoke some discussion, but I must admit to being surprised (pleasantly) by just how much!
Firstly, I should say that I very much welcome all of your comments, both negative and positive. I constantly ask for feedback on the magazine, I created a space on the PWC website for just that function. I also set up the email account feedback@profe... so that readers would be able to easily give me their comments.
The reason I did this, is because I am not afraid of criticism, in fact I positively want it. Its my opinion that some organizations in the window cleaning industry have become stagnant because they don't listen to criticism, and I hope the magazine never becomes like that. Criticism, when its constructive, is what lets you know if you're doing things right... or not.
I'm not the least bit offended by the comments of readers, rather I'm actually rather taken aback by the depth of feeling about the magazine. Its now clearer than ever to me that PWC readers really do care about the mag, and quite honestly, knowing that makes me feel that my effort over the last year has been worthwhile. PWC readers have a right to express their opinion about their magazine, and I am genuinely grateful when they do.
So, to the matter in hand: Why the change of style for PWC?
Although I ask for feedback, for a number of reasons it's quite difficult to get. Most people don't take it upon themselves to criticise a person, an organization, or a product directly and that's probably just a British thing. For the second year of publication, I wanted to do things a little differently, a fresh approach, a broader appeal. I selected a focus group from among window cleaners, both subscribers and non-subscribers, and over the course of a few weeks, got some in-depth feedback about what they thought of PWC.
The comments I got were that the magazine was "very professional" which was good, but also the feeling that the style of PWC was just a little bit "highbrow", even (dare I say it) stuffy? It became obvious that readers found the magazine useful, but was it really enjoyable? Was it too serious? The feeling was that perhaps it was.
I spent a long time looking into ways that I could broaden the appeal of the magazine, to take it forward. I decided it should be physically a better quality magazine, and I hope the fact that it has grown from 36 pages to 52, and also that the paper is a higher quality stock has not gone unnoticed. The layout of the pages has also been revised, and this has been no small effort.
But the real challenge was the content, and in many ways this is something you can't really know how its gone down until it's 'out there'. Now it is in print, and the full picture of what readers think will emerge. The point is, now readers have something to compare against. Even if the new style proves to be unpopular, I can say with my hand on my heart that I was not afraid to try something new, and that has got to be a good thing.
Subscribers to the magazine are in some ways, a special group (and a very valued one). Like window cleaners who tend to post on forums, a window cleaner who subscribes to a window cleaning magazine is serious about their business, and about their trade.
What, though, about the average window cleaner who doesn't use forums, isn’t a member of any association, and doesn't bother with trade shows? I think its fair to say that would describe by far the vast majority of window cleaners. How many times have you spoken to a window cleaner in your neighbourhood who hasn't even heard of WFP, the work at height regs, ladder safety? Plenty I would guess, because that is what most of the window cleaning industry is like. We always complain that window cleaners have a poor public image, and that's not for no reason.
It is important to me that the magazine appeals to these window cleaners as well. After all, I started the magazine with the purpose of improving information in the industry as a whole, but if that information isn't presented in a way that is appealing, then it won't be read.
I think that most here are business owners, and you are no doubt very interested in the issues surrounding equipment, safety, best practice etc. But what about employees? Will they be as interested as you would be in those things? They might, but only if the information is presented in a way they that takes their interest.
continued...
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...continued
It might be your opinion that perhaps this issue of the magazine was too far one-way, perhaps not. But whatever you think, I'm interested to know.
Because the magazine's style is so different, I have set up a page on the PWC website to get feedback on just this new style. Its the form of a questionnaire, and in addition to the online version, I'll be sending paper copies to all subscribers in the next few days.
http://www.professionalwindowcleaner.co.uk/survey.html
If you read the magazine, whether you're a subscriber or get a copy from one of our stockists, please do take the time to complete the questionnaire. I'll be compiling the results and publishing them, and the reaction of readers will directly determine how the magazine will go in future issues.
The discussion on the forum so far has been lively, and Issue 8 has certainly provoked more interest than almost any other issue. Many here have supported the magazine since its very beginning, and although the feedback on this thread has been a little one-sided, what has also transpired is that this latest issue has clearly appealed to a whole new group of window cleaners who would perhaps never have read a window cleaning magazine otherwise. The difficulty now is striking the correct balance, but that is always going to be a challenge.
In conclusion then, this is a very interesting and important time for PWC Magazine, and I would like the opportunity to deal with your feedback properly. Please take a moment to complete the questionnaire, and don't be polite, be honest!
-Philip
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Questionnaire completed Philip.
Sarah