Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: cleanability on October 10, 2006, 09:22:45 pm
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I should know this but I dont. For example which way do Belgian Wiltons/Axminsters and wool Axmintsters/Wiltons shrink? Across the roll so to speak or down its length???????
Thanks Chaps
Chris
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Chris,
They contract in both directions. They initially shorten in their lengh, but once sufficiently taut, if the tightening continues, this will cause the carpet to pull from the sides too.
Some shop carpet fitters cut corners by only installing gripper rods at the ends of the room, rather than around the entire perimeter. Often this is only discovered, when the UNSUSPECTING CC turne up to clean it. In this case, if its a shrinker and the backing fets damp, it will try to shrink. Now, if the fitter has properly compression fitted the ends, the carpet should not move from there, but in this case the pull in at the sides will be even greater and extremely dificult if not impossible to stretch back.
Any attempts at re stretching a shrunk carpet should be avoided until after it has properly settled down (1 to 2 weeks). Attempting to do so too early, rather than stretching the carpet backing you will tearing it apart, and when it does finally settle may well develop ripples.
Dave.
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I think that one happened to us:-\
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Chris,
They contract in both directions. They initially shorten in their lengh, but once sufficiently taut, if the tightening continues, this will cause the carpet to pull from the sides too.
Some shop carpet fitters cut corners by only installing gripper rods at the ends of the room, rather than around the entire perimeter. Often this is only discovered, when the UNSUSPECTING CC turne up to clean it. In this case, if its a shrinker and the backing fets damp, it will try to shrink. Now, if the fitter has properly compression fitted the ends, the carpet should not move from there, but in this case the pull in at the sides will be even greater and extremely dificult if not impossible to stretch back.
Any attempts at re stretching a shrunk carpet should be avoided until after it has properly settled down (1 to 2 weeks). Attempting to do so too early, rather than stretching the carpet backing you will tearing it apart, and when it does finally settle may well develop ripples.
Dave.
Whether the carpet has been 'compression' fitted or not it may shrink in certain circumstances. If it's been stretched the carpet may even pull the gripper up out of the screed floor with it.
Possibly the carpet may need to be stretched back with a POWER STRETCHER and even then DOUBLE gripped on the carpet width.
You will not tear a carpet backing apart if stretched while wet, that's nonsense.
Sorry but I just cant believe the miss information in this post, how wrong someone can be.
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You a fitter aswell then Scot?
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Yes
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Yes
Nice to hear you double gripper on width! Although i always stick and pin! Never rely on screed pal! ;D
Also beware that on this forum they dont like it if you seem to have a knowledge that others dont and best be quiet sometimes :P
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Cheers I'll take your advise. But when you read rubbish like that you just can't help but say something
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Scott, not condemning or complying but an Ar$e had a pop at me a while back when ive done more in my job than most fitters and tried to make me out a shame-i observe a lot nowadays and tend not to proffer advice much now-leave it to em and laugh ;D There LOSS lol. ;) If ya wanna get in touch ya can e-snail me.
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Poor old Dave_Lee, never did he say in his post to stretch the carpet while it is wet. Merely to wait till it had settled which is the correct thing to do. Best, Dave.
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mE THINKS anything would tear :) if it has enough pressure applied, surly .
Now I do know I havt got a degree in phsyics or engineering, come to that nothing ;D but I would have thought any material or anything would break, rip, tear, crack whatever if enough pressure, tension, force etc is applied.
As for been wet, well again h2o does have a tendency to weaken certain things , including fibres so I would tend to agree with Dave :-\
I prefer to use a dry toilet roll, ;D seems stronger some how
Geoff
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Wheather or not, wet or dry carpet backing will split if badly stretched depends very much. on what type of carpet it is.
Tufteds generally speaking are quite tough backing wise and will take a lot of abuse with a stretcher. There are exceptions.
Axy on the other hand will split if stretched too much across the weft.
This is the reason why when I am fitting axy and double banking gripper(which is my normal practice as it costs pennies) I will often leave a gully between the two pieces of gripper of a about an inch which is then filled with underlay. The effect of this is to spread the tension over an increased no of weft rows and thereby reduce the risk of splitting, particuarly if powerstretching, as would be my normall practice with lenghs over 5m ish.
Michel
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If you have to stretch a carpet so much when fitting that you rip, tear, break the backing it certainly means you are installing it wrong.
Michel Roberts - we all know about the technical side of carpets so you you dont have to baffle us with science.
What I object to on this forum is CARPET CLEANERS who think that just because they've cleaned and seen a few thousand sq metres of carpet that they know all about fitting them too. Well that's not the case......
I think I shall take Damiens advice and let cleaners think that they are fitters and keep quiet!
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No don`t keep quiet thats the whole point of this forum for everyone to put their point acroos and share their knowledge if people get the hump when what they say is debated thats their problem, everyone always think they are right otherwise they wouldn`t say it, sometimes people have got to accept that they are wrong and thats life :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(
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Scott,
We like differences of opinion.
However we have known Dave Lee a long time and he has been cleaning carpets for over 20 years.
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;D ;D
I never said I was right ;) or wrong ;D because I admit I dont know :-[
What I did say was anything will tear with enough force, now that i know I am right,
Geoff ;)
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Scott,
We like differences of opinion.
However we have known Dave Lee a long time and he has been cleaning carpets for over 20 years.
My last post on this thread.
Ian just because you all know Dave Lee and he has been cleaning carpets for years thats no reason to think that he is going to get it right all the time.
His fundamental knowledge on installation techniques needs to be addressed and it would be wrong for him to condone what he has stated as the norm and true fact, when it isn't.
We all have to learn sometime in our life.
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Scot,
I was simply offering advice based on my knowledge and experience of over 27 years cleaning AND fitting carpets. In that time I have seen the results of shrunken carpets (Not by me) that have been stretched too soon. I never did say a carpet would tear if stretched whilst wet. What I meant was that it is BETTER to wait until it has dried and sufficiently, naturally, relaxed before doing so. I have seen carpet ripped apart from forcing a stretch with the use of a power stretcher, and I remember over 25 years ago whilst attending a textile study course at Kidderminster when the instructor informed us that Jute does not stretch and any attempt at doing so merely produces many tiny tears, thus allowing some extention. I agree a carpet that has been compression fitted CAN shrink, however if the gripper rods are securely fitted and dont move and the carpet secured in the gripper gully, it will not move from the ends or the sides, just merely tighten up. I dont agree that I have given any misinformation and firmly stand by what I have said.
Dave.
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however if the gripper rods are securely fitted and dont move and the carpet secured in the gripper gully, it will not move from the ends or the sides, just merely tighten up. I dont agree that I have given any misinformation and firmly stand by what I have said.
Dave.
Dave
This is an untrue statement. Gripper can be easily pulled up from a screeded floor by a wet shrinking carpet, Ive seen it, in fact the shrinking carpet pulled up the gripper and the screed in 2 inch small holes and retracted about an inch.
Whether the carpet is tight in the 'gully' or not, it can be easily pulled up.
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Scot,
What are we arguing about here? I know very well that some carpets such as Belgian Wiltons can shrink that fiecely that the gripper can be pulled out of the floor, especially solid floors, I never said it couldnt. Read my post properly, I said - if the gripper was well secured. i.e. so that it wouldnt be pulled. As you probably know the recomendation is that B/W carpets should be fitted in double gripper all round. If that gripper is adhered properly to the solid floor and nailed, you would have to be a fairly incompetent CC to wet the carpet so much, even a B/W to have it pull the Double gripper from the floor.
I can honestly say all the distasters I have seen when this has happened has had its origin in incorrect instalation.
Dave.
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i know this, when a carpet wants to shrink nothing will stop it dont matter how many grippers are down, in tests done in the states it was discovered that a shrinking carpet can pull with many tons of weight. you could sit an elephant on it it would still move. which begs the question, how can you rip one?
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Well said Dave Lee, twice. Best, Dave.
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Yes Craig, no one is arguing about that fact, but arent we discussing, shrinkage when cleaning a carpet, which will not be as substantial as when a carpet is flooded. Also the more the yardage the more carpet to shrink and the greater the force.
Anyway Chris, as you started this thread, take what you will from my comments and if you think someone else has given you more of a convincing answer, then take theirs and ignore mine.
Dave.