Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P®oPole™ on October 10, 2006, 04:17:15 pm
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I'm sick to death of being told stories of shiners doing crap jobs and only turning up a couple of times!
I drive around sometimes and see complete and utter muppets with a roof rack and builders bucket thinking there shiners. Why do they have to be signing on to be cowboys?
The other day I witnessed a big fella standing on a plain tile porch roof with a scrim, the same day I also saw one standing on his last rung I have even sat and watched with great pleasure one trying to wash out his scrim and put it straight to work. Some dont use scrim or micro, oh no what do they need them for, they do have "tea-towles" you know!!!!
I've seen the Polish working in and around London, they have clocked it!!!!
Ive seen ladders set at stupid angles footed by another set of ladders lying down or using a car, just this afternoon I watched a shiner do a couple in my road he had a wickes ladder no side bucket, I think he had a sponge but surley not, he carried hes perfetic excuse for a squeeggee in his pocket, is that safe? He rested his standard ladder on the corner of a bay if that is not cowboy I dont know what is.
Why am I so worked up, becuase I'm sick of monkeys giving this trade a bad name. I have priced jobs recently and have been up to 80% over there "old window cleaner" EIGHTY PERCENT FOR F@@K SAKE "my old window cleaner only charged £6" I'm talking huge five beds georgian the lot.
They even have commercial, how does that work out. The Working at Height Directive is a complete JOKE I am ammused when I see a certain shiner standing on an upside down bin to reach high retail windows, I aint talking little shops either Im talking huge retail park shops windows, and big names to, Next being one of them.
W.A.H.R is rubbish, its not worth the paper its printed on. who needs europe anyway I certainly dont!
ProPole
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must contradict you on washing scrim and using immediately theres nothing wrong with that a good shiner can get a scrim bone dry just by wringing but i do know what you mean on work at height issues
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Yea thats what I meant, pros can make one good quickly with a couple of ring-outs a few snaps, cracks and breaks, this guy had a new one and had no idea, he was trying to dry it for 10-15 mins and looking like a total novice.
A shiner that has no side bucket even pouch or belt, who carries his tools up in his hands surley is a cowboy?
Regards
ProPole
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A man who herds and tends cattle on a ranch, esp. in the western U.S., and who traditionally goes about most of his work on horseback. Or
A reckless or irresponsible person, esp. a show-off or one who undertakes a dangerous or sensitive task heedlessly.
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Pro,
If they are cowboys on the dole then report them if you feel so strongly about it. Its no good wingeing (hope thats how you speel it) if your not going to do any thing about it.
steve@freshwatersystems.co.uk
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Why would I do anything about it, it just winds me up how they give w/c a bad name, there are few if any cowboys in your industry maybe if there was you would have a little moan, would that make you a whinger?
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oh no what do they need them for, they do have "tea-towles" you know!!!!
Hey watch It pro pole!! >:(
I have used tea towles since I started!!!
I use a scrim to detail then I take my plain white tea-towel and wipe the whole frame and sill. What Is wrong with that?
So I'm a cowboy then?
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mmm i cant stand those buckets,AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGHHHHH im a cowboy :'(
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Hi mick, nice to see you on here.
Pro pole come ashore!!
Just because people use tea-towles and a builders bucket doesn't mean they are cowboys. With an attitude like that In life you wont make It big.
These people who use the cowboy buckets and cowboy tea-towles know how to make and save money! They are the clever ones! Not you!!!
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needed a stetson today though wi that sun ;D
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Cracking day mick! wfp'd from 8 -5. piece of cake now!
Wish you were staying up here and got a wfp kit as you were going to :'(
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With an attitude like that In life you wont make It big.
We will see about that Matthew :D, Shining in London is a totally diffrent ball game to your little village round.
Its all about customer preception and down in this part of the country I tell you now you wont get far, I wouldnt let you clean my windscreen with your dirty white tea-towle that thing must be seriously black with dirt, how long do they last you. I have been using one of my scrims for 4 years its the best one I have, you must go through hundreds of tea-towles in 4 years.
Why do things on the cheap to save money when you can have proffesinal equipment that sends out the right message and lasts alot longer!!!
Thing what winds me up the most is when I price a £30 house to find out that the cowboy there before charged £6 are you one of them aswell then?
I know of shiners getting the tube into london with a bucket and scrim with intention to sit out on window sills!!!!
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pro pole i know what you re saying mate.People putting window cleaning in the gutter.Its the way it is.Ive only been doing it a year,but people think you are crap on their shoe because of the cowboys.Its because its such an easy business to start up,and requires minimal skill,and its cash.I wish these tramps would bog off out of it.
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A man that knows what hes talking about, like it ;) you know the koo FASTONE, i hate the way people look down at us an this is mostly down to the bad name we are given by these chumps
Regards
ProPole
Matthew are you telling me I could go out tommorow and use my jumper sleve to clean windows, as long as im not signing on I'm a Professional window cleaner, right?. I DONT THINK SO!!!! a professional is surrposed to have the right tools. Would a builder use a tumble drier instead of a mixer, if I was a chef could I use a bog brush to stir the soup.
NO!!!!!
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;D
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pro pole i started a thread like this one a while ago,and got a bit of stick.Im with you 100%
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pro pole! The tea towles I use are very good quality. I only pay £10 for 10 and they last 2 years. I would say thats pretty cheap???. Any way I must be a rich cowboy as I have a wfp set up and top quality poles to my arsenal! By using towles saved me loads and It doesn't look un proffesional. I wear a uniform with my logo on it and I must admit I look more pro then the big outfits like ocs who I used to work for.
And can I point out a fact to you! Inverness Is the fastest growing city In europe! Some village!
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needed a stetson today though wi that sun ;D
SO YOU WOULD PUT YOUR SQUEEGEE IN YOUR POCKET THEN IS THAT SAFE?
WHAT ABOUT POOR OLD MRS JONES AT NO.63 GOING TO CHURCH FOR WEEKLY SERVICE OR COMING OUT TO PAY YOU, ODDS ARE THAT ONE DAY YOU WILL DROP THEM TOOLS ON SOMEONES HEAD AND IN THIS DAY AND AGE IM GLAD ITS NOT GOINT TO BE ME!!!
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Tea towel, thats ok why not if it is used to wipe ledges better than not wiping them at all.
Builders bucket, it is just the right size I use one cant get along with the long ones.
Domestic type ladders, now surely that is an accident waiting to happen.
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A man that knows what hes talking about, like it ;) you know the koo FASTONE, i hate the way people look down at us an this is mostly down to the bad name we are given by these chumps
Regards
ProPole
Matthew are you telling me I could go out tommorow and use my jumper sleve to clean windows, as long as im not signing on I'm a Professional window cleaner, right?. I DONT THINK SO!!!! a professional is surrposed to have the right tools. Would a builder use a tumble drier instead of a mixer, if I was a chef could I use a bog brush to stir the soup.
NO!!!!!
Right we are dealing with a lemming here!
A chef could not use a bog brush to stir the pot instead of a spoon. But pro pole there Is a huge difference there. IT HAS BLOODY BRISTLES ON IT!!!!!!!
Now onto the bucket! What Is the difference between a sir rectangle window cleaners bucket and a builders bucket. The shape!!! that Is all!
I see a window cleaner most days who has his name, phone numbr and logo some how printed on his "cowboy builders bucket" And guess what It looks better than the pro bucket!
You seem to use the word "london" to your defence. Do you think your better and more wealthy coz you live there?
Smoke, crime, polution, over crowding! Not my cup of tea!
Think I will stick to the countryside and fresh air.
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an applicator doesnt fit in a builders bucket,does it?
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Right then,
Nor do some applicaters do they!!!! You get some that are bigger than the bucket. I have a 6 inch applicater and that fits in !
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Fast one and pro pole!
You have no respect then for poeple who build there own wfp systems? It looks "un-proffesional"
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You must admit though,it does look a bit two bob. yeee haaaaaaa
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Any way I must be a rich cowboy as I have a wfp set up and top quality poles to my arsenal! By using towles saved me loads and It doesn't look un proffesional. I wear a uniform with my logo on it and I must admit I look more pro then the big outfits like ocs who I used to work for.
;D Matthew I bow to you and your wfp system with arsenal of poles, one day I hope to be in your position ;)
I have very wealthy customers and a couple of famous ones on my books, I like to give out the right message and know that if I didnt I wouldnt be in a postion to have jobs like I do. and in that sort of market with your dirty rags you simply wouldnt get through the front door.
There place for me is by the sink to do the dishes, not that I will be doing that either. Out of curousity have you ever been tempted to take the one by the sink?? how long do they last between washes.
I dont talk about London like that, you have the wrong end of the stick pal what im saying is you would not last around here. but seen as your so "rich" quote from yourself, you dont need to leave the highlands.
Im not saying there bad, for sills fine, but white ones ??? what i meant first of all was, shiners using just towles for detailing ragging wiping the lot you got the wrong end of the stick.
Boasting about wealth, your mighty poles and pure water contraption, is going to get you, know were.
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Call me old fashioned,but i dont want to look like a dole blagger.If you look like crap, people will assume you are crap
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If you charge crap prices people will treat you like crap.
If you charge high prices people will treat you more highly.
I hardly lose any customers to cowboys,look on the bright side winter is starting so most cowboys will be Hibernating.
Nel :o
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A man who herds and tends cattle on a ranch, esp. in the western U.S., and who traditionally goes about most of his work on horseback. Or
A reckless or irresponsible person, esp. a show-off or one who undertakes a dangerous or sensitive task heedlessly.
One of the few sensible posts in this thread.
It is a potentially good thread but is being spoilt by antagonistic and beligerent replies.
Please people, ease up on the swear words too, outside of this forum I swear like a trooper, but on here it is frowned upon, putting asterisks or @@ in there hides nothing.
We all swear, but it isn't allowed on the forum guys.
However, to make a comment of my own on the subject of cowboys...
Mike's comment summed it all up I think.
And just because someone is using a tea towel for wiping down sills and frames does not make them either a cowboy or unprofessional.
The same goes for the type of bucket they use.
Othe descriptions of the reckless way in which they climb or use ladders is a better indication of whether or not they are cowboys.
Same as not having a BOAB or pouches, go back 25 years and you would not see any wiindow cleaners using this equipment.
I started 22 and a half years ago, I bought my equipment from a supplier we found in Brum, and he had some soft pouches for a squeeggee and other pouches for scrims.
When I got these, in my area there was not a single window cleaner using them, and all around I never saw anyone outside of my area either.
I developed the idea further and had my own designs made up for pouches and applicator/squeegee pouches.
Within a short time, a year or two, the guy who made them for me was making loads of them and selling them to other window cleaners, some of which I had but onto him, and others that had then did the same.
now of course just about all of us have them....so much so that SOME of us reckon that not having them makes us cowboys!!
There is also a big difference between being professional and APPEARING to be unprofessional, but that is appearance only.
What is being charged doesn't make you a cowboy either.
someone may have every appearance of being unprofessional, but is he skipping windows? not bothers with sills or detailing? Slapping in an invoice claiming to have done the work...but hasn't?
If the end result is a top class job, and providing he has at least followed safe practice with regards using ladders and so on, then just because he has the appearance of a cowboy it doesn't necessarily make him one!!
There is a guy in our area, Tosh and Squeaks will know him too, has a flat cap, scruffy, drab clothing, carries his ladder under his one arm and his round bucket under the other, and he looks as creepy as anything :o
But he has been going over 20 years and is actually a really nice chap.
He is very cheap and very slow, and to look at you would exclaim, 'Cowboy!!'
Would be very unfair to do so though....
A year ago I worked out the back of a 5 year old Toyota Corolla, today I am working out the back of a brand new Nissan Primastar van with a full van mount, and now Autumn is here I am back into my 'uniform', logo on cap and embroidered polo shirts, sweatshirts and Fleece (still to warm to wear the last 2 items though! :-\)
Compared to last year, my 'appearance' is way more professional...but the job I do is just the same....gets me a lot of work too ;)
What is a cowboy is hard to define...but I like Mike's description ;)
Ian
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Changing the subject slightly, this afternoon i saw an old boy cleaning a very big house in town with newspaper!!!!! Now i have never seen that before!!!
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Changing the subject slightly, this afternoon i saw an old boy cleaning a very big house in town with newspaper!!!!! Now i have never seen that before!!!
This is what im talking about!!
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Ian,
What your basically saying then is as long as one doesnt undertake dangerous practise and are not signing on there not a cowboy.
Even if they pushed a cart didnt have any shoes, had a ladder they built themselfs out of 2x4, used pants they stole from a washing line, had an old fish tank they found in a skip which they urinated in for water, and charged £1 a house there fine so long as there not dangerous.
I aint being funny Ian because I do have upmost respect for you and your services to this forum. I know you have to come in here and be the man in the middle, but I think you were better off just to edit the posts on this one mate.
ProPole
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You seem to think these sorts of people are making window cleaning look bad, but that's the way it's always been. ::)
Before everyone went safety mad, most window cleaners were what you'd call "cowboys"
You won't make it glamorous by having a van and wfp.
You may have more modern ways of doing the job, but you're still just a "shiner" like them. ;)
Don't try and make it something it's not.
Some people will always look down on you.
It's a working-class profession.
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Spot on Rog!
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Squeaky I havent mentioned wfp >:(
Im talking about trad shining, I know of guys running very professional trad companys.
Not in 100 year old cars, that charge peanuts and use mish mash found in the kitchen equipment to clean windows with like a bin and a tea-towle (using only a tea-towle FOR EVERYTHING) ones that use step ladders, milk crates, broom handles for poles an charge stupid prices for rubbish jobs, DOES THAT NOT MAKE US LOOK BAD
80% DEARER, SAY NO MORE. >:(
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i have never been a cowboy but for a couple of years my son did the downstairs for me and he used a newcastle brown crate and he only used that because we couldnt find a champagne crate.
gary
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Oh dear Propole, now you are taking it to extremes that make it hard to have a decent debate about!
You are confusing appearing to be a cowboy and being a cowboy, and they are 2 very different things.
Sometimes they may be linked, but not always.
Most of us are just like Squeaks, and how i was last year, and we work out of the back of our cars.
Just to go by appearances is deceptive and often false.
what we use to do the job does not make us a cowboy, not the fact that some are content to work for pennies either.
I'm not sure if Squeaks is alluding to my post or not, but I wasn't saying having a van makes it glamorous, i was actually saying that it makes little difference, the job I do is no different to the job I did when I worked out the back of the car.
The big difference is cosmetic.
My appearence alone is more professional, not the job I do.
but the more professional your appearance, the better it is for your business....but no matter how professional you appear, you can still be a total cowboy...
And propole...are they doing rubbish jobs?
I used a broom handle for a pole for years, it cost nowt and lasted a long time and was the perfect length for most trad jobs.
On occasions I still use a step ladder, from under the kitchen sink I used the fairy liquid for more years than I care to remember, and I've never had a new car in my life. and a tea towel may not look very pro, but for sills and frames it is fine, particularly the linen ones.
One large company I knew of used those blue towels you get in toilets, you know, the ones on a perminant loop?
They cut them up and used them as scrim, and they did a bloody good job too, ant the blue cloth's looked a lot smarter than scrim.
As a window cleaner you know full well that scrim is the right thing to use, but unless you know what it is, to most people it just looks like a grubby pit of rag you rub over the windows.
Ian
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I'm a bit scared of horses, to be honest, especially when they show the whites of their eyes, you just know they're gonna do something scatty!
Anyway, the cowboy image has never bothered me, it just reminds people that they must find a decent windowcleaner, and they are all the more relieved to find one.
And as for the type of customer who prefers the cowboy method, they are welcome to it, they'd be no good for me anyway.
Keeps the cowboys in baked beans too!
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Get a grip guys - we're window cleaners, not rocket scientists.
If you need the kind of "respect" a titled profession gives you then go to night school like my old man did.
I'm perfectly happy with my window cleaning activities and find that if you string words together in a respectful and courteous manner then you'll be treated respectfully in return. Those that don't - well it's their loss.
Cowboys? You're only a cowboy if you feel like you're a cowboy.
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when i was working on site,now and then you would get brickies with crap tools,looking rough.Nine times out of ten they were no good on the trowel.FACT.If you value the job you are doing you should at least get decent equipment for work.What sort of perception does a bloke with an old ladder and a dirty rag give to the public?Its not as if window cleaning equipment is expensive is it.Instead of buying beer and drugs,why dont they save a bit of money and smarten themselves up a bit?Fair enough,some are not like that.To be honest i dont care what reaction this gets.
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Well said Fast One, ;)
To many people here are brown tounging, and scared to put peoples noses out.
its 2006 not 1960 SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!
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I picked up a job the other day because,as she said,her window cleaner was in prision for burgluary.As i was speaking to her,i tried to get across that i was trustworthy.Isnt it bad i had to do that.I dont want to be tarred with the same brush.Yes it does get my back up that there is so many scummy no hopers in window cleaning,and that is what pro pole is talking about,they make it hard for us.They underprice to the extent it makes it harder to justify our prices.
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Squeaky I havent mentioned wfp >:(
Im talking about trad shining, I know of guys running very professional trad companys.
Not in 100 year old cars, that charge peanuts and use mish mash found in the kitchen equipment to clean windows with like a bin and a tea-towle (using only a tea-towle FOR EVERYTHING) ones that use step ladders, milk crates, broom handles for poles an charge stupid prices for rubbish jobs, DOES THAT NOT MAKE US LOOK BAD
80% DEARER, SAY NO MORE. >:(
I had to smile at this. I use a milk crate for a few windows on some bungalows that I do trad. The ground falls away a bit. It's much easier using a crate than pulling a pointer out for a few windows. I use a step ladder for a few things too such as cleaning sign above a shop front. I tried using WFP for that one but it knocked down one of the letters of his shop name - oops !! I don't use steps or crate very much though. Just the occasional job where it's more practical.
Although image is reasonably important, I find that the quality of the job and the interractions with the customers count for a lot too. I find that if I am OK ith the customer and treat myself with respect too, then that is usually sufficient. A bit more may be needed for some high end domestic and larger commercial work though.
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Im worried now Ian... ::)
you said you only got a new car last year, and you been doing it years.... dont forget im new, you are suppose to be inspiring me,.... ;)
oh and im not a cowboy lol.
gary.
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What I class as a cowboy is someone who cons their customer in not doing
what the customer is paying for.
For example I have picked up jobs because the previous window cleaner
just cleaned the fronts and not back, he thought the customer was not in
and could get away with it.
Another one cleaned the windows with a scrim thinking the customer was
away, she then noticed how dirty the windows were.
Window cleaners are paid to clean all windows trad or wfp in that they are
mark free after completion. This is the agreement between the w/c and
customer.
When w/c try to cut corners and provide a bad service then this gives w/c
a bad name. How many times have I heard from new customers that they
have no confidence in w/c. However this happens in all trades.
Are they cowboys, more like scammers.
Doug
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Im worried now Ian... ::)
you said you only got a new car last year, and you been doing it years.... dont forget im new, you are suppose to be inspiring me,.... ;)
oh and im not a cowboy lol.
gary.
Hi Gary,
I'd other costs to worry about that were more important than a brand new vehicle, always had second hand...until now that is.
Cos of WFP I was able to lease purchase my £17,000 Nissan Primastar ;) And I'm still left with more than before, I didn't intend to mention WFP as I know this isn't really a WFP thread, but it has been the difference for me between earning an ok living and earning a good living.
I generally agree with Doug too, the cowboy is also a con man, but there is also a line between the window cleaner that just isn't very good, someone who is just scratching a living to the best of their limited ability and someone who is a true cowboy.
Is the window cleaner I've just described lazy and slovely and thereby a cowboy by default?
Or does there have to be some deliberate intent to rip people off?
Ian
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I'd other costs to worry about that were more important than a brand new vehicle, always had second hand...until now that is.
Cos of WFP I was able to lease purchase my £17,000 Nissan Primastar ;) And I'm still left with more than before, I didn't intend to mention WFP as I know this isn't really a WFP thread, but it has been the difference for me between earning an ok living and earning a good living.
That's because the majority of his work is top-notch commercial stuff.
(Which he's upped the prices on...)
WFP on domestics only won't get you a new van.
Newbies please note! ;)
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i do domestics only. wfp
and i run a brand new vivaro.
same van i think.
pre wfp i just had an old escort estsate.
wfp can get you a new van sqweeky.
and more money and respect.
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squeeky. ;D
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roger you are wrong, the difference for me is domestic accounts, 2 or 3 accounts I previously had that I've stuck up about £20 each are a drop in the ocean.
Having the van + signwriting has brought in work for sure, but I only invested in the van AFTER I had picked up a further £350 or so of domestic work per month.
My original criteria was to wait until I had picked up £250 worth of domestic accounts before I invested in one, but wanted to be really sure I could affords it, so waited until I'd picked up another £100 worth of domestic.
Any new commercial work was not added into the mix either, commercial work can be fickle and not always to be relied upon for the long term.
Prior to changing over to WFP I only had 2 domestic accounts, they make up well over 3rd of my work now, and my commercial business has also increased by a fair degree too.
Since having the van I've also picked up more well priced commercial purely as a result of the van.
you may not like it, but to new prospective clients, your projected image counts for a lot.
All they know is what they see....of course, underneath the gloss you could still be a complete cowboy.
Ian
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or even squeaky ;D ;D
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Oh, and the majority of my commercial work are shops and pubs Roger, most which are still the same price as they were when you were working for me 6 years ago.
Ian
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we use to do houses :-\ then we got 6 months for it :-X
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and more money and respect.
Ho ho!!!
How does it get you more "respect"?
You get more respect for being a skilled manual tradesman, not some bloke with a brush machine. ;D ;D ;D
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There you go again Squeaks, casting disparaging remarks on WFP, it takes skill to use the equipment.
And either wheeling around a smart trolley, carrying a back pack, or opening the doors on on a well set up van mount looks impressive to most people.
You get looked at very differently when you are well turned out, smart van, sign written, uniform etc.
It doesn't make you a better person or a more professional window cleaner, but appearances count.
The same thing goes for trad cleaners too, your image gives out signals, the more 'pro' you appear the more respect (initially) you can command.
Ian
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WFP on domestics only won't get you a new van.
Newbies please note! ;)
Sorry Rog
But your wrong.
Roy
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I brought my mrs a new 4x4 and i use wfp on domestic only ;)
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WFP on domestics only won't get you a new van.
Newbies please note! ;)
I've got to agree with Squeeks on this one.
It takes more than just a WFP system; doing residential or commercial; to get you a nice shiney new van.
It takes a bit of gumption, HARD WORK, and some good business sense; stuff some of you lads are taking for granted.
Squeeks is happy on his dodgy ole ladders with no feet; stop picking on him.
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I know of a window cleaner thats been going 20 odd years he:
knocks on for his money before he cleans the windows ::)
starts downstairs first :o
uses a brush handle for a pole :-[
has not got any pouches or any decent equipment and uses carrer bags to carry his scrims about in :'(
he leaves his ladders on peoples gardens has he has no car
but hes a really nice chap, dont know if this makes him a cowboy or not but if it did he wouldnt own a horse either because he doesnt own anything else.
I lost a customer to him after putting one up 50p, but i have gained a lot of his ;)
I dont even think hes heard of wfp this wc has worked this way for all of these years and is still making a living but personally i like to use all new equipment uniform etc and hopefully with a lot of hard work i will get that new van one day. :)
At the end of the day its whatever you are happy working with
Brett
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There you go again Squeaks, casting disparaging remarks on WFP, it takes skill to use the equipment.
As usual people don't actually "read" what I posted.
I never said it doesn't require skill, maybe in some cases it does.....
I said it doesn't look like it does.
It doesn't impress people like someone who's working hard.
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It doesn't impress people like someone who's working hard.
Eh!
So WFP users should start doing 50 star-jumps with a burpee, inbetween each window or something? That would certainly make window cleaning hard work.
Instead of using a hoover, should house cleaners revert back to using bass brooms to clean carpets with?
Cars are quite lazy aren't they? Shouldn't we carry our equipment, or push it on carts or something?
That would impress our customers!
Isn't the idea to 'use your head and keep your feet for dancing' or 'work smarter, not harder'?
Squeaks, what are you on?
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I had to smile at this. I use a milk crate for a few windows on some bungalows that I do trad.
Well said Shiner. My milk crate is the handiest bit of kit on the van. Come on guys, as long as a man produces work to a standard that his customers are happy to pay for. Surely this is the important thing.
There is a new guy on our patch who was caught squirting dirty water onto a job that another cleaner had just completed. He was then knocking and asking the householder if they were happy with his standard of work. This guy has a brand new van mount system and has never done the work trad. He looks very professional indeed. It would be an insult to cowboys to class this guy as one.
If a guy is honest, does a good job, and his customers are happy to recommend him, he's doing it right. Dai
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Squeaks, what are you on?
Planet Earth.
You should visit. It's quite nice.
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Come on guys your going off topic.
The Mods are strict on this, so be warned :)
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Really funny propole. ;D
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Whats funny ???
Its not funny for me when I have to convince customers that a price is fair, due to apes comming in from every direction and charging £6 a house no matter what the size.
Fair enough milk crates on bungerlows seems ok. what about a bin for commercial, would you say thats ok?
All these little things toghether make one look un-proffesional but the odd bit of mish mash matched into ones kit doesnt harm. But if one had a bin, a sponge, a rubbish squeegee with no belt, a crap ladder which they used dangerously and charged pennys I wouldnt call them a proffesional.
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Dont get me wrong I'm definately more towards you on this one. Its just some of your descriptions in your earlier posts were hilarious!
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;) thats how it is around here mate,
ProPole
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You won't find any window cleaners on rogue traders will you?
In the history of toil, there can be few jobs that are inspected to he same degree that ours is. Even 10 year olds are queuing up to see if we miss a bit.
We don't know what a mechanic does under the bonnet, or a plumber does in the attic, but a shiner can't kid a housholder by saying that the jobs a goodun if it's not. If we fail to do a good job it's there for all to see. People will not pay good money, month after month unless we do the job right.
I think the root of the problem is that some guys find it very difficult to put up their prices, and this makes it difficult for the ones that want to, to compete.
I do a few council houses at £6 a clean. I know it should be more but I was talking to an old pro today that has over 5oo customers. He charges £4.50 for council houses. It now takes him two months to do his round. He put all his prices up £1 this year, the first raise in 7 years and he was bragging that he never lost a single client. I'm not surprised as before he was doing them for £3.50. This guy is a top class shiner doing a good job.
Maybe the Fed or PWA could come up with a recommended national rate that would be the industy standard. Say £1 per window., then the guy who is affraid to put up prices could say that this is the national rate, and not feel bad about it.
NOT ALL GOOD WINDOW CLEANERS ARE GOOD BUSINESS MEN. Dai
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a cowboy is someone who does not care about the work he is doing.
does not care about the customer or the quality of the job
does not care if he lets the customer down
does not care if his appearance is untidy when he goes to the door
does not care if he undercuts a fellow wc'r
does not care if his water is dirty and ran out of fairy liquid three days ago
and does not care if his giro for incapacity benifit arrives on monday or wednesday!
bit of a laugh but you see my meaning!?....nice one ;)
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To add one more to that denis..does not care when someone says " but your only a window cleaner"
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:D
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To add one more to that denis..does not care when someone says " but your only a window cleaner"
That's never been said to me, but is implied every time one of my customers try and change our terms and conditions, especially the ole, 'Not this time, mate'.
I just drop 'em.
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Changing the subject slightly, this afternoon i saw an old boy cleaning a very big house in town with newspaper!!!!! Now i have never seen that before!!!
This is what im talking about!!
IT ALL DEPENDS WHAT SORT OF NEWSPAPER IT WAS,IF IT WAS A QUALITY BROADSHEET THATS OK , BUT IF ITS THE SUN OR MIRROR THEN THATS A COWBOY.
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IT ALL DEPENDS WHAT SORT OF NEWSPAPER IT WAS,IF IT WAS A QUALITY BROADSHEET THATS OK , BUT IF ITS THE SUN OR MIRROR THEN THATS A COWBOY.
Is that a joke ;D
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O My O My, what I saw today was the worst ever, the guy in question is the king of COWBOYS
He didnt have a roof rack Oh no, he has got a sun roof you know :o :o I still cant get over it, I wasnt ammused with this one I was very angry I actually felt like goin over and giving him a clip round the ear and a stern talking to.
The other day I saw an old blue escort going down the road with ladders sticking out of the sun roof by about 8ft I thought to myself "surley not, he must have just bought them or something ???" this morning I saw the same idiot at the petrol station and yet again double 14's sticking out the sun roof, he looked like a right scruffy tramp I glanced in his motor and low and behold geuss what I saw, a builers bucket and shining aperatus if that what you could call it.
Had my camrea on me but the battery was dead >:( >:( got two snaps on my P.D.A Im unsure of how to sync to my laptop, if I have any joy I will post pics. You have to see this.
THIS IS THE SORT OF IDIOTS YOU AND I GET COMPARED TO!!!!! O BUT I FORGOT, IF HES WORKING IN A SAFE MANOR HES FINE, RIGHT?
Think beofre you answer this!!!!!
ProPole
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these should be the laws in window cleaning.A window cleaner must 1.wash body and hair more than once a month 2.Be forbidden to use a 99p builders bucket(with gone off cement in it). 3.Wear reasonable clothing,as oppose to a zombies outfit from michael jacksons thriller video. 4.Possess a reasonable vehicle,not a hillman imp,maxi,or heavily rusted escort mark 3.Not use B&Q ladders,which possess the strength and stability of ear buds. 4.Speak in sentences 5.Have slightly more ambition than a giro and 4 super tennents.
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Yeah i have seen a chap driving around with ladders out of the sunroof, and he uses a milkcrate as well. No idea what he charges though
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£30 for a wing mirror
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Lol ;D ;D ;D what a joke, they should be lined up and shot point blank!!!!
But there fine according to some brown tounges here, as long as there safe....... But there not are they? according to W.A.H.R. So they are cowboys and nothing but!!!!
Himself and the public are at great risk, our repertation is too!!!!
"oh but he might do a good job" SHUT UP, I swear if anyone comes out with perfetic comments like that about this I will never look at them the same way again and im sure most here wouldnt. they wont now becuase I have made a song and dance about it, but I bet some are thinking hes probably "alright" and to you silent thinkers your the same as that idiot in my book.
ProPole
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Surley its ilegal, over loading act something or other?
How has this guy not been tugged by the old bill yet?
How long do you think this idiot has been in business, I could work half an hour and buy that rust heap a roof rack from halfords.
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pro pole...i hope you do get the pics of him on here!!! i'd love to see him in action lol
even when i first got into wc'ing i never behaved in such a bizarre way!! emagine turning up to one of your posh customers houses with your ladder aimed at the sky and parking in front of the house :o
OH MY GOD lol
(i wonder if he has a lassoo and a ten galon hat in the boot!)
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;D ;D Dennis, it was a sight I can tell ya, I still cant get over it.
Ive never have been able to figure out how to sync pics from my hand held to my main system, im going to have another bash tonight, I hope I can get them on here. This has to be seen mate.
ProPole
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i wonder what is a cow boy ? could it be any one that does not use wfp im not opening a can of worms am i squeaky ,i do think law breakers every time i pass one of you guys using your ladders
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if what he's doing is illegal the police will pull him over. He may well have borrowed his wifes car while his brand new van is getting an
Ionics system fitted.
Judge not lest ye be judged.
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very true dai, you never know i spose!
i mean...if something like what you said happened and the only way i could work was like that, then i suppose i would have to do whatever i could to make my bill money etc, we all gotta live havent we!?
didnt really think ;)
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Dai please dont try and defend this scum bag I shouldnt need to say it again "LADDERS WERE HANGING OUT OF HIS SUN ROOF MAN"
It was about 8.30am kids were going to school there was loads people about but thats besides the point, he should know better and belive me by the look of him theres no way he would have an ionics system (I would bet my own ionics system on that allday long) or It didnt look like he would have a wife for that matter I swear to god he looked like he slept in that car or the park a complete disgrace to the word w/c you defending him isnt making you look any better than him.
Dai I dont care about your milk crate, that is fair enough, beats getting the ladders off and nice n light to carry round the little bungalow. You had to be there to see this guy! and you wasnt.
ProPole
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i wonder what is a cow boy ? could it be any one that does not use wfp im not opening a can of worms am i squeaky ,i do think law breakers every time i pass one of you guys using your ladders
You're funny. ::)
I think "cowboy" when I see someone using wfp instead of doing a good job.
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Squeaky!!!!! ::)
Curb it chum.
The Pro
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Dai please dont try and defend this scum bag I shouldnt need to say it again "LADDERS WERE HANGING OUT OF HIS SUN ROOF MAN"
It was about 8.30am kids were going to school there was loads people about but thats besides the point, he should know better and belive me by the look of him theres no way he would have an ionics system or wife for that matter I swear to god he looked like he slept in that car or the park a complete disgrace to the word w/c you defending him isnt making you look any better than him.
Dai I dont care about your milk crate, that is fair enough, beats getting the ladders off and nice n light to carry round the little bungalow. You had to be there to see this guy! and you wasnt.
ProPole
still need to see the footage of him b4 i make up my mind ;)
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Cant sync, but can take photos of my onscreen pics of P.D.A poor quality but you will see mate, its a disgrace
2 mins matey and I will post them.
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very poor quality pics, but you can see there in the sun roof :o :o plus i had to zoom to block the sun from top of the pic, I swear no word of a lie there hanging out by 8foot or more.
Glasses on gentlemen, sit back and squint them aged eyes, you will see. ;)
SHOCKING the ladders are actually comming seperated sections, were he must of put top in first nd feet hanging out why do you think that is? :o :o
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Slightly better.
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on second thoughts..i dont think i could allow myself to look as much of a tit as that lol
i think i would spend a day to at least borrow a roof rack and not look wyat earp pmsl
god that looks bad doesnt it!! and i dont mean the picture quality ;)
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Pro pole, I would never defend dangerous practice, and as you say I didn't see it.
The point I was making is that it is sometimes easy to see a certain situation and come to the wrong conclusion. A ladder sticking out of the sunroof does sound dangerous but if it protruded no more than 3 ft above the roof and it was well secured inside the car, it may not have been. It would look pretty hidious though.
My point about the guys van, maybe in for service or Mot, or something is a valid one.
Many years ago it was quite common to see a window cleaner on a push bike with a ladder on his shoulder and a bucket on his handlebars.
The real point is though. You can't get away with shoddy work as a WC for any lengh of time. The customers can see instantly if the job's a good un or not.
Out trade is not like others for this very reason. We just can't get away with shoddy work and maintain a viable round. That is why so called cowboy workers cannot survive in this business for any lengh of time. Dai
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When me and a mate started window cleaning 5 or 6 years ago we were both broke, had mortgages, had families and both of us were for all intents and purposes, unemployable as we were both the wrong side of 40 and had both won industrial tribunals from previous employers.
We started with a cheap ladder, a few towels, a builders bucket, 2 sponges and a squeegie.
We were also both on the dole to start with because we had no option but to remain so and take the risk.
For a few weeks, neither of us had a clue what we were doing. We carried our ladder and 'stuff' around by hand. God knows what some of our first customers must have thought.
So were we cowboys? I don't know?
I'm not sure what the term means anyway. I think it means nothing and I also I think it is a generic terms that means that the person using it doesn't have to use proper language and describe whatever it is he is making a comment about. I also think it is born from predudice, fear and guesswork.
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Ross I couldn't agree more. I have never been in trouble with the police, but if I was, I hope the jury would examine all the evidence before giving their verdict.
I have made snap judgments in the past that turned out to be entirely wrong.
Now I want to examine all the evidence objectively before reaching any conclusion.
Dai
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ross, me and my old mate started in exactly the same way. on the dole, i had a car but no roofrack, no ladder so we did bungalows only untill we could afford a rack, then borrowed a ladder, bought a cheap bucket and used teatowels to use as scrims!!
but carried on till we could come off the dole etc :)
still was good building the work up!
now ive gotta do it all over again :)
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Sorry Dai
I didn't mean to sound like I was having a go. I just re read what I posted and it did seem to read a bit like that.
I also hope a jury would look at all the evidence. Sadly, I don't think they would.
Hi Dennis
I'll be in the same boat soon. I'm packing up working with the others I work with having built up a substantial business over the last 5 or 6 years. It's nothing personnal with them, it's just I do all the paperwork and I can't stand doing 2 or 3 hours of it every working night.
Sometimes I think back to when we had a clapped out old rust bucket and every new customer was a weird type of thrill. Now new customers are just another to be added to the work load.
I've got to start from scratch next month also. Maybe some will think me a cowboy? Who knows?
Cheers
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yeh, that was a long time ago when the work was all mine but, as you may or may not know, i sold my round last year and began an employed job doing woodwork etc....which lasted three months until i left/was sacked and had to rent window cleaning work off the bloke that i sold it to in the first place lol.
but now i need my own work again and dont want to be paying anyone rent on top of petrol costs etc etc.
its gonna take time though because i have got a lot of work with this bloke and not much time to canvass my own stuff :(
i'll get there in the end m8 lol....and the very best of luck to you btw, hope it all goes well ;)
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Ross, I never thought for a minute that you were having a pop at me mate. good luck with going it alone. I never felt that I was my own boss when I had a guy helping me. Had to finish at 5 with one house left in the street. Couldn't get an early start on my commercial stuff. Better on your own or with the Mrs. Dai
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Hi all,
Not wishing to dig out an old thread, but it fits so well on this one. I did enjoy Propoles descriptions of cowboys.
Try this - I know of a local window cleaner who is a cowboy without a doubt. He changes his uninsured and possibly untaxed cars (depends on last owner as to legality) almost weekly it seems. We saw him yesterday in a car with sofa cushions proclaiming to be a roof rack!!!!
Maybe he didn't get a sunroof with that model?
In conversation he's told me after acquiring the round from his business partner (who turned out to be a paedophile, now locked away) he turns up when he needs to = needs some cash. Difficult customers - drop 'em; hassle. They tell me when to come - drop 'em; what day to clean them - drop 'em....
Q: Have you gone into that WFP thing now then?
A: Yes John, it's brillliant no need to climb ladders to stupid heights to carve a living...
Quote " We've never had problems with ladders, except for Dave who snapped mine. he was a fat f****r anyway. I took the price of the ladder from his wages. Lucky for him he fell on his fat *r*e" ??? :o :o >:(
P.S: He cleans the windows at Cash Converters for a discount on cashed personal cheques - ie: no come back from the tax man....
Mini rant over,
Ben
I don't consider myself a cowboy but I won't let my customers dictate when I can clean either.
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Vision on, there's more cowboys in that post of yours than in the average Clint Eastwood movie! ;D
Made me laugh anyway!