Clean It Up

UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Moderator David@stives on October 08, 2006, 09:32:33 pm

Title: Blatant rip off
Post by: Moderator David@stives on October 08, 2006, 09:32:33 pm
Last week as some of you know i went on Holiday to North Devon
, As  I pulled into a  carpark in Watermouth just outside Ilfracombe
I saw a van whos Signage looked familiar, I knew i had seen
 it before but on another vehicle belonging to GaZ 20 
a member of this forum , same name ,same logo .here is the post
 showing Gazs van

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=18899.0


At this point i got a little bit excited i convinced myself it was Gaz
but he had changed his vehicle, i knew the name and logo were exactly
the same so had to be him, so i phoned the mobile number on the
side of the van and some guy called ken or len or something like
 that answered, so i made my apologies and hung up and thought
i must have got it wrong as it was a long time since i had seen the
picture of Gazs van.

Anyhow i think Gaz has been well and truly cloned apart from the
 make of the van and it could of only come from helping others

you decide

top photo Gazs van

Bottom photo showing the imposter.

What would you do in these circumstances.

I know Gaz designed the logo and lettering himself
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: Sunshine Cleaning on October 08, 2006, 09:47:59 pm
Should we all phone him up?
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: H h20 on October 08, 2006, 10:04:34 pm
Hi Dave,when i got your email i thought it wa s windup,i didn`t click that it was you at first sending the email,but to my horror some b*****d has well and truley ripped my name,logo and design off,if he is a member on here show yourself you lowlife sc*m and explain!,Gaz >:(
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: rosskesava on October 08, 2006, 10:38:42 pm
It's a pity you couldn't get all his mobile calls diverted to your mobile.

I knows it's a nasty cheap thing to do, nicking someone elses ideas but on a plus side, you'll get more advertising as the more times someone thinks they see 'your van', the more work you'll get.

The 'minus' side of it is he'll get more work also.

I think the blokes got one hell of a nerve.

What I cannot work out is how did he copy the sign so dead acurately?
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: Jon T.C. on October 08, 2006, 10:42:10 pm
this person lives in the west mids area - dudley, stourbridge

according to the area code
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: H h20 on October 08, 2006, 10:43:58 pm
Ross,he is either a member on here and copied them off my photo,or has seen my vehicle somewhere and taken photos,would anyone else do this  ???,Gaz  >:(
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: matt on October 08, 2006, 10:45:50 pm
it is slightly differnet though

the line off the A is at a angle ;)

some might see it as flattery though Gaz

on the subject of copying logo's

i know of a few who have the reach and wash logo and the FED logo on vans, they took a picture to a sign writer and he knocked 1 out on the computer (took about 10 mins)
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: WavieDavie on October 08, 2006, 10:56:18 pm
Gaz - Not knowing too much about the lay of the land down there, you're in Staffs and he's from somewhere noted below. If that's a fair distance, it's odds on that he's on Cleanitup.

From www.ukphoneinfo.com . . .

01384 352721
Dudley

Section: Codes in Range 1000-1999 (Mainly Geographic, Convention B3)

Number 01384 352721 is potentially valid.

Oftel records show that numbers starting 01384 35 are allocated to Telewest Communications Plc. Note that due to number portability if an individual number has moved to a different operator this information is not publically available. Oftel's last recorded change for this number range was in July 1994.

A table of the code allocations for other numbers starting 01384 is available

01384 352721 may be on one of the following exchanges in this area:

    * Bobbington 01384
    * Brierley Hill 01384
    * Cradley Heath 01384
    * Dudley 01384
    * Kingswinford 01384
    * Kinver 01384
    * Lye 01384
    * Stourbridge 01384
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: matt on October 08, 2006, 11:00:26 pm
its like the spot the difference this is

ive found something else

he has 4 "water drops" under the "man with a pole logo" watch ionics phone you up about that now ;)

any more differences folks, Dave @st-ives might supply the winner with a bottle of his/her fav tipple, afterall it was his game, thus only fair he supply the prize
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: WavieDavie on October 08, 2006, 11:02:52 pm
Quite  right Matt - it's all about copyright.
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: rosskesava on October 08, 2006, 11:42:30 pm
It's only a violation of copyright laws if it's a registered trademark.

The thing is it is quite complex to get sign writing done when it's a copy.

Is the sign writing the stick on type?

If it is then it is really hard to copy unless the person/business who did the rouge traders sign writing had the same program.

If it's been painted on, then the sign writer has a really exceptional ability.

There are differences but in the main, it's almost an exact replica which I find odd.
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: JohnL on October 08, 2006, 11:52:12 pm
Its dead easy to take a photo of something, transfer it to an image manipulation app then copy the bits you want and resize it to fit a new location. Its a 15 minute job for someone with the right app and if you are a sign writer you will have that technology.

Thats what has happened here imho

and to me this blatant copying is totally out of order

JohnL

Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: ronaldo on October 08, 2006, 11:57:08 pm
How do you lot no that Gaz hasent copied him?
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: steveaqua on October 09, 2006, 12:17:36 am
Illustrator would have that logo copied in no time at all!

why would someone copy another company seems strange to me. Not unless he lives close to you and you have a good rep and he knows about it maybe? tryed to have some of your customers? I don't know just seems odd.

You haven't had a worker that you have showed to much to have you? thats what i get nervous of. not the name and logo being ripped off, just my business being at risk
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: ronaldo on October 09, 2006, 12:23:29 am
I would say Steve that looking at the two vehicles, the transit is older and the sign writing has faded a bit and its been on that van longer than Gaz,s has been on his, but i really doubt if there has been any copying though, i would imagine they have both seen it somewhere and used it.
Gaz you could try asking SCS if he knows of them as i,m sure he is in Cradley Heath and thats 01384.
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: steveaqua on October 09, 2006, 12:27:56 am
I would say Steve that looking at the two vehicles, the transit is older and the sign writing has faded a bit and its been on that van longer than Gaz,s has been on his, but i really doubt if there has been any copying though, i would imagine they have both seen it somewhere and used it.
Gaz you could try asking SCS if he knows of them as i,m sure he is in Cradley Heath and thats 01384.
Are you a private eye in your spare time  ;)

still seems odd having two identical companys like that.
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: rosskesava on October 09, 2006, 12:28:50 am
It's rarely that a business is at risk by being copied. If people think the two vans belong to one company then how does it put the business at risk? Twice the coverage means that potential customers notice more. That is how advertising works.

They will phone one number or the other and not just phone the 'other' and ignore the first.

I still find it strange.

When we had our vans sign written with stick on type sign writing and we wanted what was on one vehicle copied and sign written to the other, the different shape of the vehicle meant that it cost a bomb to convert the program from one vehicle to the other. We did try loads of companies but the cost was about the same.

This person must have spent some money to copy Gaz's sign writing.

Also, up to this point in time, and this is the really relevant question, has Gaz's business suffered as a result?
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: steveaqua on October 09, 2006, 12:31:47 am
It's rarely that a business is at risk by being copied. If people think the two vans belong to one company then how does it put the business at risk?

If that refers to my comments i meant showing workers to much of your business puts you at risk not two sign written vans!
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: ronaldo on October 09, 2006, 12:34:18 am
Ross, i wouldnt think Gaz would suffer as a result of this as there is a fair distance between the 2 and they wouldnt be working in each others home town, well i would be very surprised if they were.
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: rosskesava on October 09, 2006, 01:11:49 am
Oh....

I thought for some reason they were in the same town.

That changes things.

Then the person according to the odds must have been a member of this forum.

Sorry.... der .....

I agree about not showing a worker to much of your business. How much is too much? That is a real tricky one. I have no answer to that question.
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: steveaqua on October 09, 2006, 01:28:33 am
I agree about not showing a worker to much of your business. How much is too much? That is a real tricky one. I have no answer to that question.
that is a good question and i really don't know the answer, just that I've let guys in before on other ventures i've done got chummy with them and been shat on from a great height so very stand offish now, keep my distance and only really tell them what they need to know. bit of a shame but thats whats happened. strayed off the subject a little but thought i'd answer the last post
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: H h20 on October 09, 2006, 07:34:56 am
 Ronaldo I designed the logo and came up with the name and the design of how Advance is written i spent time,money and effort at my sign makers as Dave @st-ives as already said and he knows i did,i posted pictues last year on here of my vehicle.I have not any had run ins  or clashes with any other window cleaners
I don`t or never have employed anyone,so some Low life has just decided that they couldn`t come up with their own name and design and ripped me off,Gaz  >:(
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 09, 2006, 07:42:54 am
Gaz,

Personally, I don't think there's much you can do about it, although I do sympathise with the work and expense you put into it; just to have someone come along and 'cheat'.

However, it must be a bit of a compliment for you though; that they nicked your design.

Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: H h20 on October 09, 2006, 07:54:19 am
Tosh nicking something is NOT a compliment,Gaz
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 09, 2006, 08:27:45 am
Tosh nicking something is NOT a compliment,Gaz

Well, if someone is low-life enough to steal someone's work, they've got a range of this sort of stuff to take.

They're not going to nick a rubbish design are they?

So, by nicking yours, it's a compliment; it must be good.

Anyway, you have my sympathy.  I was only attempting to help you see a silver lining if that's possible.

Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: ronaldo on October 09, 2006, 08:34:32 am
Ronaldo I designed the logo and came up with the name and the design of how Advance is written i spent time,money and effort at my sign makers as Dave @st-ives as already said and he knows i did,i posted pictues last year on here of my vehicle.I have not any had run ins  or clashes with any other window cleaners
I don`t or never have employed anyone,so some Low life has just decided that they couldn`t come up with their own name and design and ripped me off,Gaz  >:(


Well then Gaz if you designed then they must have copied it from your picture on last years thread, i can remember you putting your picture on that thread because i also put one on the same one.
Keep smiling mate.
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: H h20 on October 09, 2006, 08:37:55 am
Tosh ,sorry  i wasn`t being funny with you,i do understand what you were trying to say and thanks for your sympathy,Gaz  ;)
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: windows_chepstow on October 09, 2006, 09:49:08 am
No probs.

Ruddy weather!  I'm trying to physc myself out to go and clean some 'B-listers'.
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: steve willetts on October 09, 2006, 10:13:18 am
Hi Everyone, i am new to the foram and work sometimes in the areas that the "CLONED" van operates in. Have not seen it around as yet put will keep an eye out for you.


Steve
Brighter Exteriors Ltd
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: Robert Parry on October 09, 2006, 10:40:02 am
Your logo/design is your brand, the trick is to design one that is associated with your company, so that when seen, people know exactly who it is.

Copies, can be a form of flattery, however, if the other person/company should be responsible for an accident or some other form of mishap, you just might find yourself in a position of denial, risking your own livelyhood and reputation, you should alway's, alway's, protect your brand.

Regards

Rob
Title: Re: Blatant rip off
Post by: H h20 on October 09, 2006, 03:00:53 pm
I have phoned the landline number but just kept ringing,so i phoned the mobile and spoke to a guy called Len,so i asked him how long he has been trading as Advance window cleaning and he said "oooh ages",
so i explained that i had designed the name,logo etc and that it is my company trading name and asked where he got it from he said he just got it from a building company called Advance builders and i said no you have`nt because of the water splash logo man and pure flow pole system,then all of a sudden it dawned on me i know this guy and asked him if he had got a caravan to which he replied yes and with his brummy accent,i had a long conversation with him on caravan site that i had visited this year with my caravan,he obviously denied it but the things he was saying on the phone about that he didn`t do window cleaning he sent the lads out with the poles was how he explained to me in the conversation i had at the caravan site,he still denied knowing me,but i must admit he didn`t get nasty and appologised if he had used my name and logo and said he would get it changed,but i am 100% sure it was the same guy,Gaz