Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: tam on May 05, 2004, 11:46:11 pm
-
Well guys, there has been a lot of posts and recomend ations about W/fed poles and I want to put the case for all the w/cleaners, including myself, that would not go past a Pole with a Back-Flip or similar. I spoke to a w/cleaner in Dunfermline, who was using a W/fed pole on the Visa Centre across from where I was cleaning 3 office blocks with my trusty B/flip, 1st floor, and he doing the same. we got into conversation and I asked him how long it would take him to clean the 3 office blocks that I had just done, upstairs only. He had a look and said to me probally about 4 hours, because he would have to move the equipment 3 times to get around all the windows. I told him that it takes me less than 2 hours to go around with my B/flip. Obviously he did not believe me but I said to him, I started here at 7.15am it is now 9.15 and I have been talking to you for 15 mins does that not prove a point. He gave in then, he started on how the W/fed pole does all the frames but in the cut throat w/cleaning business that I know unless specified, price is all that matters to a lot of clients and they dont worry how the job is done as long es the price is right.
-
Hi Tam,
I tend to agree with you mate. Have you read my posthttp://www.cleanitup.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Equipment;action=display;num=1082932253.
Not that I have totally writen off the WFP. It's probably easier and better at actualy cleaning a window but to cart around 700 -1000lts of water lug pipes and a trolley around seems to me to defeat the object; which, to me, is to clean faster and easier and earn more!
I'm going to try and make my own system to MY spec and BUDJET. If I can then I'll probably defect from BFP(Back Flip Pole!) to WFP. Meanwhile I'll stay with the BFP.
David
-
On yourself Dave, I am not getting much response from this post, maybe there are not a of W/cleaners out there that know that there is an option to Wfp.
-
WFP will usually be faster in the long run.
Even with set up times etc.
In your particular building tam, only one floor up, and you are an experienced backflip user, yes you may be faster then the wfp man. But can you use a backflip over 2 storeys? How about at 45 ft?
The pole will waggle around so much you will have no hope of any fine control at all. Whereas wfp can be used at this height.
cart around 700 -1000lts of water lug pipes and a trolley around seems to me to defeat the object; which, to me, is to clean faster and easier and earn more!
Hmm, you'd have to actually do it to see why its faster. Carrying around 1000 Litres in a van system is no problem.
At one time I thought that a lot of the WFP kit was unnecessary and overpriced, but it isnt.
I'm starting to think about window cleaning completely differently now using poles. It is more specialized, with particular, expensive equipment. Many customers have commented on how professional it is to invest in new, safer equipment. You turn up to a job and start using poles and what is everyone's first thought at looking at you is not "there's a window cleaner", its "Look at that he's using - that looks elaborate. What a pro."
Water-Fed poles are THE biggest thing to impact the window-cleaning industry since the squeegee. Its a paradigm shift.
I'm going to try and make my own system to MY spec and BUDJET.
Good for you, I made my own system, there are several advantages to doing this, but also several major disadvantages:
+
1: You will know exactly how your system works, so if it needs adjusting or repairing you'll know how to do it.
2: You can tailor it to your own specific needs.
-
1: Inspite of what you may think, building your own system will NOT be cheaper. Even if you try to copy a ready-made system, you'll still end up spending more money than just buying one already built.
2: Certain components (like the poles and RO membranes) you cant build and will have to buy ready-made. These will account for more than half the cost of the system.
3: When you have got all your components together, there's no guarantee that the system will work as you expect. Actually, I guarantee that it WONT work as you expect and you'll have to spend more money putting the problems right. (and then more money on a nice wig, because you'll have torn your hair out)
3: There is a safety issue installing your own water tanks. I had thought about it but have decided that when the time comes I'm just gonna take a deep breath and pay a company to do it properly. Much as I dont want to start a crash-test debate, it is something I think is important.
-Philip
-
Tam
if the guy you spoke to is taking twice as long with a WFP as you do with a squeegee he is definatly doing something drastically wrong.
If it takes you two hours and I am assuming you are a fast worker it shouldnt take him more than an hour! lets give him the benifit of doubt and say an hour and a half.
Why he needs to keep moving his kit is a mystery to me.
He should be able to set up and just connect as many hoses as required. we often work more than two hundred metres from our vans (4 x 50 metre reels). Maybe we have got it down to a fine art after six years but the set up time can be mesured in seconds.
Glyn
-
Maybe we have got it down to a fine art after six years but the set up time can be mesured in seconds
You've got some fast runners up there in London Town Glyn! Can you send a couple my way ;D
-
Hi Tam,its possible your thinking the way I am regarding w.f.p. and `poling` using
an Ettore `back-flip`. There is one thing using a `back-flip`,ya don`t get any `spotting`
problems.Can I ask ya, who`s poles do you use and prefer.What tool do you use if your
doing windows with deep or deepish ledges.Also,do you have any problems with smears
or `runs` or `curtains` down from the top of the glass.If so,what do you use to wipe or
`detail`.My own favorite combination is a `ledger` tool fitted with a tool invented and made
by Peter Fogwill called a `LedgerMate`.The channel is a 45 degree Sorbo with the plastic ends.
I mentioned it to Peter at the Leicester show that I was thinking about packing in the w.f.p.
side of things altogether,but some of my commercial accounts I`ve rinsed out all the detergent
from the frames and glass so I guess I`ll just carry on with them. I`ve enjoyed `jawing` with
Jeff Brimble,Peter Fogwill etc.ya learn some good stuff from them fella`s. On a last note,its
the wiping along after squeeging with pole work thats the real ` bugbear`,( ya don`t need me
to tell ya that ! ). See if yourself, and anyone else with differing views can put in their `two cents
worth`.
Lewis Doubtfire ( Blade Runner )
-
Lewis, to tell you the truth, using the b/flip had a lot of my customers mystified as a lot of them said, wheres your ladders, I dont like the look of that thing, does it do a good job? Well my answer to them was if the work is not as good as the last time that I cleaned your windows with a ladder I will clean your windows for free. Carry on I was told, and after the clean the customer was quite happy with the job I had done. I then put the plus points the her. No ladder holes in her lawn or garden, safer for myself to work without fear of falling, I could go on but I hope you get my drift. You talk of using ledgers, but for only a few jobs with wide ledges, the b/flip does the job.
As for you Philip, up here in Scotland the only jobs that we do that are more than 30 feet are usual contract work which means that I hire Ariel Platforms which is payed for by the client. Wfp might be good for a lot of w/cleaners but in my enviroment with a lot of domestic work and not a lot of contract work it is no good for me.
My business has been on the go for over 60 years and if Wfp had come in a lot of years ago things might be differant.
Old master, I think you must have stole my name, the 3 office blocks I am talking about there is restricted access and even your 200mtre hose would not reach around 1 never mind the 3 blocks. As I said I am only repeating what the guy told me. Tam.
-
;) ock eye the nu ;D the squee gees not dead yet mateys
-
Martin
you know us cockneys have to quick on out toes ;D
How funny you cannot say C o C K Ne Y
it gets changed to thingney
C O C K Ne Y must be rude ;D
-
How long would it take with a back flip with squeege to clean 127 lead glass windows on three floors compared to wfp?How long would it take to clean an office block with a pole and back flip 68 feet up than a wfp?How long would it take with backflip to clean 18 georgian bays with 36 12" panes in each window than a wfp?
We use both backflip,poles and wfp and will go wfp every time.
-
Steve, I would get Superman to do the work. Tam
-
Hi Philip,
Thats put me of making my own system!!! Spending DOUBLE the price.
Please answer me these simple questions......
Is a WFP anygood on houses like the ones you posted in the pricing post?
Also tell me how long, from arival to arival at next job, each of those houses would take with aWFP?
Thanx
David
-
do all my high work from the inside dead easy