Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pj on September 25, 2006, 08:08:30 pm
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Yes, my opinion changes. Does yours?
When I first started wfp, and until quite recently I thought Ionics brushes were the best. They have been my choice for most of the last year. I also have in my 'arsenal' Vikan brushes and a Salmon brush.
This is my opinion at present:
You know the difference between a hair brush for babies and one for adults? If you were to brush your hair with a baby brush it would just glide across your head! Well that is how I now think of Ionics brushes. If you have a nice easy to clean new-ish upvc glazed window, which is already clean, Ionics brush will wipe it nice and soft. But that is about it! They loose shape, you can't get in the corners, and the dirt does stay in them despite their being monofilament, the hairs come out of them frequently too. So I'm going off them.
The Salmon brush, well, good on a fairly clean window, but I couldn't get on with it. I feel like I have to scrub scrub scrub before I've got all the bristles around the glass.
(This opinion has no reflection on Gaz, who prepared and supplied these brushes. He may have laboured for a pittance on them)
The Vikan is top at the moment for me. When I started it was at the bottom, based on what I read on here, or how I perceived what was posted on here. People said it holds the dirt...I haven't found that to be so. It scrubs well, it gets in the corners, and if you neet to rinse, you just rinse!
Is there a better one I'm missing?
Pj
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I went Salmon (long and thin width/height) to Vikan (small and oval) and back to Salmon Autobrush (medium and thick.)
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Thank you Pj for some honest opinions, for people like my self who will make the change over it is valuable and sound advice.
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PJ
Funny that , but that is exactly my opinions at the moment , i have been using a vikan now for the last 3 weeks,
Dave
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PJ,
I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU.......WE NOW USE THE 11' RECTANGLE BRUSH AND IT IS BRILLIANT.
THE OTHER ONE WE WILL TRY IN THE FUTURE THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD IS THE TUCKER DOUBLE TRIM,
REGARDS DUTCH
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Yes, my opinion changes. Does yours?
The Salmon brush, well, good on a fairly clean window, but I couldn't get on with it. I feel like I have to scrub scrub scrub before I've got all the bristles around the glass.
(This opinion has no reflection on Gaz, who prepared and supplied these brushes. He may have laboured for a pittance on them)
Pj
PJ, have you used the Salmon 15" wide brush? it is completely different from the 12" or 9" ones, you will find that these are very effective for scrubbing the glass as the bristles are stiffer, but still allows the brush to glide over the glass.
Peter Fogwill
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CHARLIE :How do you fit a tucker brush to an ionics pole? unless you have the gooseneck version,do they interchange. Tucker brushes are brill as Ive stated on here before.
gaza
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gardiners new vikan brush much lighter should be on the market soon, its been a while since we last brought this subject up, i cant wait to see it,
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Gardiners new brush (supplied with the superlite pole-not on sale yet) is excellent for cleaning sash windows and 'georgian' windows as it reaches right into the corners (as the brush is rectangular in length but rounded in the corners making it an overall oval shape. It's not an ideal brush for builders cleans or initial cleans but it is very good for normal cleans as it's very lightweight, has fewer bristles therefore trapping less dirt and it reaches and removes all the spiders cobwebs right in the corners on wooden framed windows. Gardiners small swivel brush is very good too especially on awkward windows over conservatory roofs and between railings.
Another good brush is the single monofilament one from www.reachandclean.co.uk It's similar in style to an Ionics brush head but far better as it doesn't trap the dirt so much and allows more water to flow through the bristles but unfortunately it's more expensive, it's a very good brush. I use it most of the time because I can clean the windows very quickly with this one.
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I use Vikan brushes , not even interested in trying any other , i cant fault them at all .
A couple of months ago i did a trial for Vikan , it was a prototype brush , very light nylon head , it was nice to use , i did try to talk them into letting me keep it for my troubles , but they wanted it back to see how it coped with daily use .
It could be the one that jouk is on about ?
Rich P @ F
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gaza,i have the full package,merc van plus all the tucker gear,i was going to lease the package from tucker but it worked out very expensive so i bought a second hand system from a member on cleanitup,very happy with the system especiely the brushes,there brushes only fit there poles so i no longer use ionics,but after using both brushes i know which ones i will be using in future.
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Bought my 1st system (from Ionics in feb) and the brushes needed changing by may! the end of the brush head just turned into a mush of hair and was cr@p at getting into corners.
I bought Vikan brushes in June and so far they are great and have held their shape. Its reassuring that someone above mentioned that they have been using Vikan for 20 months!
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Hi Fellas,
I have never used a vikan and wouldn’t go out of my way to either, I wouldn’t mind trying one out of curiosity for cladding etc but would never ever spend good money on one or mount it on any other pole than a mini-pole for cleaning windows.
I have just been on there official website and couldn’t see no wfp brushes http://www.vikan.com/sw3699.asp can anyone tell me were they are? The answer is no because they don’t sell wfp brushes they sell car washing brushes and broom heads only, which are fine for sweeping the yard or washing the motor but not so good for cleaning windows don’t get me wrong they do the job but the operator would have to lift the brush off when rinsing for best results, you all know how I feel about this.
Fair enough the average shiner with a U.K village round would rarely going over say 25ft normally working at around 18ft most days and could get away with using vikans on that kind of work but still I would rather invest in quality equipment what is up to the job and the piece of mind knowing if in 5 or ten years I was incapacitated due to working I know I did all I possibly could to work safely.
I refuse to line suppliers pockets who have only sought maximum profit and not the welfare of the people buying the goods, how can you use a brush for car washing or a broom head on a 60ft pole sounds rather dangerous to me, I find it hard to believe I would be sold one for that kind of task and do you know why because nearly every supplier will have hundreds out the back of the workshop or whatever, do you know why? Because they buy them in huge quantities from vikan at mega low prices and sell them on to us with a huge mark up stating there fine for wfp only trouble is guys “you need to rinse brush off”, it makes me laugh but also feel disgusted how they can sell you the wrong brush and tell you how to use it in a way which could be potentially dangerous.
Below are the words of a much respected member and figure in this industry also a trusted supplier, and I for one do no doubt a word he says.
"Let me start by clarifying one thing, the most popularly used is not necessary the best. A while ago there was a certain brush manufacturer that caught on to the fact that the reach and wash system and water fed poles in general were gaining popularity among window cleaners, and quite rightly got in on the act. They realised their was big business and started promoting their car washing brushes at trade shows etc, and offering good deals to water fed pole suppliers. They even made some changes to the brush to make them more water fed pole friendly, trouble is they forgot about two main factors that overwhelmingly affected the cleaning power of the brush. Firstly the density of the bristles, their brush is far too dense and this restricts the flow of dirty water passing through the bristles, and working its way down and off the glass. Secondly the bristles were splayed at the ends to make them softer for car paintwork, as glass is a hard surface this was not necessary for a window cleaning brush, it had a negative effect and trapped dirt particles, again restricting the easy passage of dirty water through the brush and down to the bottom of the glass. These two factors although not the only disadvantages makes the most widely used water fed pole brush a nightmare to use.
How did the average window cleaner not notice this? They were supplied with the brush from their supplier, they didn't know any better, after all if you pay good money for a window cleaning system you would expect to be supplied with the best equipment to do the job it was designed to do. Trouble is most of the water fed pole suppliers have never cleaned a window in their life, they picked up on a brush that was being heavily promoted, got a good deal and the rest is history. The window cleaner got round the defects on the brush by brushing the window and then lifting the brush off the glass to give it a final rinse, which is both time consuming and a much higher water consumption over the course of the day.
There is another couple of disadvantages with the brush I am talking about. The weight of the brush, and the shape of the bristles. Again the clever window cleaners has compensated for the weight by using a much smaller brush, the size of the brush brings the weight down considerably, only problem with that is again more time wasted covering the glass with the smaller brush, and again more water wasted as you are on the glass longer. Next there is the shape of the bristles, they are straight. If they were slightly crinkled it would serve as a more aggressive cleaner, as there is a more abrasive contact on any dirt sticking to the glass. Slightly elongated bristles servers the same purpose allowing the bristles to splay more and would allow the non splayed tips of the bristles to come in contact with the dirt. This would also allow for faster cleaning, which in turn reduces water usage."
ProPole
Opinions, conclusions and other related material in this post are my own views or finds, it does not relate to my business, and shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by.
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The last post was too long to read!
I like the vikan, we have ionics brushes but they don't do the job as well.
Plus the smaller jets save water.
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The last post was too long to read!
I like the vikan, we have ionics brushes but they don't do the job as well.
Plus the smaller jets save water.
Lol ;D ;D Bear,
Can you be a little more specific mate, when you say dont do the job as well, do you mean the finish?
ProPole
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Brushes, brushes, brushes!
Being a supplier of WFP we come across a lot of feedback regarding brush types. No one brush will suit every worker. For every person that is passionate about a double-trim brush we will find someone who absolutely detests them! (I have just tried a competitors mono-filament double trim brush and found it truly awful, because of this we will not be stocking it.) For every lover of Ionics there is pro Vikan man.
We generally supply what we like and use (not always). My current stable has a vikan brush on the 2x3ft (6ft) pole, and a super-lite brush on everything else. Why? The vikans work great in my opinion but they like a lot of brushes are relatively heavy. The super-lite brush whilst not being as durable as the vikan is so light and cleans the glass so easily that it has become my automatic choice. Weight is in my opinion one of the most critical factors when choosing a brush. The Salmon brushes are also reasonably light but I just cannot get them to clean the glass as easily as other brushes.
Please note this is only my opinion! Also worth noting that the Vikans actually have a smaller % mark-up on them than most other brushes! For this reason they are not always popular with some of the big industry 'names', to be fair to some of the big boys, if you had spent £10,000 on a new brush and then saw Vikan muscling in wouldn't you try to trash them just a little?
Alex
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Alex
Do they make a vikan brush with softer bristles , the only thing i dont like about them is the way they flick water, Ionics brushes just glide over obsticles without flicking, but like what as been said Ionics brushes soon wear out.
A combination of the 2 would be good.
I still think you cant beat a brand new Ionics, but because of the wear i think i will be using Vikan a lot more
Dave
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Propole,
Interesting if long post but you've failed to mention your prefered weapon of choice, and what makes them so good?? ;D
Alex,
I use a Vikan that was bought from you and I cant fault the finish it gives me because Ive not had a single compliant from my customers which is good enough for me.
But..............I really wish you'd have a word with them about that stupid red trim that leaves red marks everywhere.
Regards
Alistair
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I nearly fell asleep reading your post, Propole!
You make some valid points, I cannot comment on, I couldn't operate a 60' pole even if I wanted to.
Main point is at the beginning, you said you haven't even tried a Vikan.
My original post was from personal experience, a year's trial if you like. I only work to 35', and those are my results so far.
Pj
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Hi Alistair,
I use Ionics double trims, and agree with everyone else they dont last that long but for what they cost you can change them regulary as dave says you cant beat a new one.
I wouldnt mind trying a salmon, I also like the look of tucker brushes, my opinion is there poles and brushes look like the best and most well made in the industry.
A question for all the vikan users, does anyone out there use a vikan and rinse brush on?
ProPole
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No.
Having said that, I have tried rinsing, brush on, with Ionics brush many times and the results are unreliable.
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Technique Pj ;) its all in the technique.
I have allways rinsed brush on and have never found it unreliable my work is of the highest quality and second to none.
Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks ;D
ProPole
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Don't be so modest!
Sales technique, methinks ::)
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Sales technique ???
What sales technique?
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To your clients. Don't you have one? I do.
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Im glad im not on my own with the Ionics brush it does loose its shape very quick but does glide very well. I also have Peter's brush, Gaz H20's brush and a Vikan but i use the Ionics because its on my light pole, it all comes down to personal preference but an old friend of mine has got a Tucker pole and i think the brush ive seen on that is the best brush ive ever seen. Works and looks good quality
Brett.
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I most certainly do pj ;)
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I have vikan brushes on both mini poles. They are great for removing snail trails in rapid time and rinseing off the glass at that hight is not a problem.
On my 18' poles I use Gazas salmon brush. I like them because they are so light and they keep their shape very well, and I rinse with the brush on the glass most of the time.
I have 2 other 18' poles, one with a small vikan brush on which i only ever use on first cleans or cleaning cladding. The other 18' pole as a bigger vikan brush on it, thats great for cleaning big windows fast but it destroys my arms by having to hold it off the glass to rinse.
I have 2 x 24' poles one as a Gaza brush on which I use most of the time, weight and rinseing on the glass being the main reason. I have a vikan brush on the other but only use it on first cleans because its so HEAVY man.
I have a facelift brush on my 38' pole but I hate the thing, not the brush but the pole is to big for me and to bendy.
Nel.
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My 5 top choices of brush are:
1.'Chic cleaning' double trim, monofilament (similar to an Ionics but far better) for really dirty glass.
2. 'Gardiners' superlite brush for normal cleans on the superlite pole.
3. 'Gardiners'superlite brush fitted to a G/F pole for dirty glass.
4. Vikan' swivel brush for conservatory roofs (for easy access).
5. 'Tucker' brushes along with the dual hose and detergent tablets and mixer for initial/ builders cleans.
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has anyone else found that salmon brushes lose bristles easily i had a autobrush and (i haven't used it now for six months as it packed up) its bristles could get caught in the joints of pvc window frames and pulled out leaving them stuck to the window frames.
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Interesting Philip - I've gone back to a salmon (autobrush) and not had the problem of it going out of shape (as long as it's stored hanging free).
I had the valve pack up (in the open position) a couple of times and Peter Fogwill replaced it FOC.
However, last time one packed up I wondered whether it was due to bits of muck or ptfe tape getting into the valve and I took the valve off, wiped it out, and blew through it and it was OK. Then I bought an in line filter between the tank and the pump and I've not had a problem since. (Only two weeks so far, but fingers crossed.)
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Hi. A little bewildered by all this talk of brushes. we have just started out on the stressful changeover from the traditional cleaning and reach and wash. We are currently using Vikan oval brush heads but wondered how much better the Mono-Filament Vikan is? We don't work at great heights, mainly two storey work at the moment. Any recommendations for brush heads?
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Try a toilet brush.
hilarious ::) ::)
this thread is 18 months old,why dig it up to post that ??? ???
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G a r y?
Bonjour
Mr - - - man
Most toilet brushes are in fact monofilament!
Not dualtrim but multi-trim!
And some do have a handle that could be adapted...Lateral thinking.....
Or latrinal thinking?
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So PJ would your changed opinion still stand some 18 moths on or do you feel different now. Which vikan do you mean, rec mono or oval.
I would go for rec mono, cleaning spot and the Gaz.
Simon.
A toilet brush may be good for birds doings.
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Actually,
seeing as this has been "dug up", at the moment i'm back to using only ionics brush. I'm just not able to get along so well with any other brush on all types of windows.
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Well after a year and a half that's a turn out for the books. I didn't say earlier but I read through the whole lot including propoles essay before I realized it was an oldy.
Tea break over and back to work. Simon.
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I don't see the problem in resurecting older posts becasue the issiues are still relavent today. Mods note that pls.
::)
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ime confused??? ???
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I don't see the problem in resurecting older posts becasue the issiues are still relavent today. Mods note that pls.
::)
Unlike yourself S.B-man, others have seen fit to continue the thread in a sensible manner.
Om the thread that I locked you had decided to make a nonsensical double reply, others then followed suit by posting meaningless replies.
Hence locked.
Your initial reply that dragged this one up from the archives has been deleted.
Ian
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I don't care what you deleted mate. Everyone else thoght it was funny why don;t you see the funny side?
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New to this site some good stuff on it though, might have missed the answer to this question though can you fit a valkin brush on a ionics pole? Sorry been up since 4.30, no not staring work just cant sleep, though was windy and raining at 6 ;D
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yes and yes.
You can fit a vikan brush on an ionics pole
and
yes it was windy at 6 am. ;D
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I don't care what you deleted mate. Everyone else thoght it was funny why don;t you see the funny side?
If all you wish to do is post meaningless replies, or to have 'fun' stay on the section that is there for that reason, because on this section of the forum they will be removed.
Unfortunately you hide your email address so I cannot address you privately, else I would elaborate in greater detail.
Ian