Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Pat Purcell on September 23, 2006, 12:53:21 am
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Having watched Mr Fogwills video I was wondering if any of you thought about the competition that WFP may bring from other service co,s starting to wash windows, in the video it would appear that very little skill is necessary to clean a window using wfp. I read all the arguements and still have no reason to not believe Mr Fogwills assertion that the windows were cleaned to an acceptable level,my question is that if a carpet cleaner or a maid service or any other service co were to watch that video then they would assume (maybe correctly) that for a few hundred quid they could offer a window cleaning service as well, they already have the customer base and will allready be on site at regular intervals and they would now have the tools necessary to do the job without much training or expertise, This would be very good for Mr. Fogwill and other wfp retailers but would almost certainly impact window cleaners, Im not saying wholesale loss of customers but a gradual change over by people who lets say use a nmaid service once a week for a small etra fee they can have their windows cleaned by some one who is in their home anyway it would eliminat one person they have to deal with, at the very least with more competition it would hold prices down, just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this ???
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The phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" springs to mind.
I personally wouldn't worry about that situation. Lets face it, every window cleaner could also go and purchase carpet cleaning equipment, do some courses and away they go.
In reality, I would suggest that to keep up with relevant law's, industry changes, new courses, products, marketing etc... you would be better off dedicating your focus to your primary business whichever that may be.
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I suspect we will all regret the emergence of that video because it proves nothing about real WFP. Its just a stunt.
I get asked about doing insides a lot these days. I always used to say no but I have done a few recently.
Did one this week but seriously underestimated how long it would take to do so badly underquoted.
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As someone put in another post the real change will come when retail shops sell RO/DI units made by the million in China for a tenner and people do thier own, then as many people will use a WC as now use a maid service.
Regards Mal
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First off, Peter's clip is no stunt, I wish there was a way that he could grab a handful of you cynics and prove to you all that a window can indeed be cleaned properly just as he does in the video.
Maybe we can find some disbelieving Scottish window cleaner who is prepared to travel to his neck of the woods for a demonstration on a days work.
I'll lay money on the fact that Peter is prepared to stand up and be counted too.
Ionics already do a domestic reach and wash system...doesn't matter though, it still takes skill to do and you still have to buy resin and maintain the system.
People have a window cleaner because they just don't want to do it themselves.
I suppose some carpet cleaners may well go for it, but have you seen some of the equipment they have in their vans now :o
Can't imagine them wanting to get into window cleaning too, besides, they would clash on timings, People in domestic homes only have carpets cleaned when they have too, window cleaning is done far more regularly.
Might be ok for one off cleans when they are in situ I suppose.
Would really need one of the guys from the carpet cleaning section to answer that one properly.
Can't imagine a maid service wanting to know about it either, it is still a physical job for a woman to do, and few men are in this line of work.
An interesting thread though ;)
Ian
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carpet cleaners and other trades will come into window cleaning,
and they will give it a go,
but what seperates the true window cleaners is working in bad weather from october to march, this is when they will return to carpet cleaning etc for an easier life,
window cleaning is not all about waving a pole in the air, but stamina to stick it out in all weathers
jinky
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I doubt that carpet cleaners will be interested. They earn more per hour than we do as it is. My good friend and long term carpet cleaner cost jobs out on the basis of £50 per hour.
The only problem for them is the constant need to find new customers.
I would have thought the whole thing might actually go the other way. Window cleaning always appealed because it had virtually zero start up cost. Now if you are having to spend several grand to get started in window cleaning you might as well take your money and go straight into carpet cleaning or wheelie bins where the money is better.
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Ian hits the nail on the head again.
People have a window cleaner because they dont want to do it themselves.
My wife is a hairdresser and I remember years ago when the hairclippers came out and she was concerned that most men would just give their hair a quick going over with the clippers at home.
Never happened.
Why.
Cos at the end of the day even that takes skill and more to the point they just cant be bothered and its easier to sit in a salon and have it done for a few quid. ;)
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As someone put in another post the real change will come when retail shops sell RO/DI units made by the million in China for a tenner and people do thier own, then as many people will use a WC as now use a maid service.
Regards Mal
This is already happening in the Commercial Sector of our trade. We lost a long term customer who we cleaned all 3 of their Nursing Homes. They employed a new Accounts guru who spent £1000 on a small, but complete set up. Their existing general dogs body now does all 3 sites and he made his money back within 2 months !!!
Talking about small units suitable for residential. They are also already available on QVC for the car industry at £5 a go they claim to clean your car with water that you leave to dry. A fab shine by all accounts !!! LOL
Wont be long, however its the second storey windows that would be the problem for most people. They wont like to, or have time to get up ladders and IMO we will be pretty safe in this market.
Watch commercial customers though - my advice is dont rely on their income too much JUST IN CASE they get switched on like ours did :-[
Sarah
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thank you all for your replies, I agree with the consensus that people will not want to wash their own windows domestically but i guess the point I was trying to ask was do you think that any other service would think that window cleaning would now be a handy add on to their own business eg, carpet cleaner brings a helper to move all the furniture out of the way while he is cleaning the carpet the helper could wash the windows and be finished in time to help move the furniture back thus eliminating any down time,or a maid service doing 4 houses a day could add exterior w/c to their repotoire thus making them more in demand or from the other perspective offering w/c as a way to get your foot in the door with the hope of adding on your other services,Also Sarah makes a good point about commercial work the new Gung Ho executive trying to earn brownie points gets the caretaker or building maintenance person to wash the windows in his down time thus reducing costs . Im not screaming doom and glom here just trying to think the whole thing thru now that the fear aspect seems to be taken out of our profession thus opening it up to anyone with a few quid in their pocket
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Sarah
Wait until something goes wrong with the system or the staff start to get injuries from the polework , which they will if the staff are not used to window cleaning.
There is also the question of public liability, the only cheap policies i have seen for employers are the ones where they have slightly twisted the policy to make out you are a cleaner and not a window cleaner, beware these policies may come back to haunt them.
I think what will hurt our trade if suppliers and maufacturers are constantly harping on how much you can earn an hour in a public arena , after all they have a vested interest in telling everyone how much can be earnt.
Dave
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Yes, Sarah
Private Nursing homes are money grabbing with their residents and penny pinching with contracts. Don't give up on them.
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I'm waiting for that very moment Dave ;D
Its not been a major problem for us as we have been doing an on-going commercial campaign which has more than covered the loss.
Pj, your right they are notorious for it >:(
In general though I think we are all pretty secure with our trade as people dont want the hassle.
Sarah
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I don't think that anyone really believes that a window can be cleaned properly Peter fogill style ;D not even Ian if he's honest ::)
by the way Ian, please stop deleting my posts >:(
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I don't think that anyone really believes that a window can be cleaned properly Peter fogill style ;D not even Ian if he's honest ::)
by the way Ian, please stop deleting my posts >:(
Hedgehog.
Peter was in the game when you were in nappies, are you only in training nappies cause it seems to me you knock anything that gets said, he offered you help on how to use wfp (which you obviously need), i'm 100% wfp & my customers are well happy. A friendly bit of advise, GET SOME HELP, ;). When you get to know how to use it you will love it. ;D
Macc
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There is also the question of public liability, the only cheap policies i have seen for employers are the ones where they have slightly twisted the policy to make out you are a cleaner and not a window cleaner, beware these policies may come back to haunt them.
Dave have you any examples of this please as often wondered why AXA does not insure
w/c but agents are selling AXA insurance !!!
Doug
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I was once reccommended a policy off a window cleaner who was paying peanuts for 3 staff , his way around it was to state he was the only one cleaning windows and the others were general cleaners and support staff which was a load of b~~~~~~~, so when faced with the quote he just took it and kept quiet.
He was actively encouraged by the broker to do this , he paid £350 as opposed to over a grand if he did it by the book.
Dave
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well you can imagine if one of his staff had an accident while cleaning the windows - insurance company would look at what he was doing. Not only would this invalidate his insurance (thus throwing away £350) but would also leave him open to prosecution
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I think it was something to do with only one person cleaning the windows at any one time. anyway it was a dodge and you can only get away with it for so long
Dave
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i do both W/C and C/C but most my work windows if it was all capets i would be rolling in it but put the 2 together and i earn a good living.
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Hey Kacc, I don't need any help with wfp, in fact I do a good job with it. That is because I take my time and do it properly including cleaning the frames, not a splash and hope for the best as we saw in Peters video, I don't need any help especially not from someone who has no pride in their work! :o
Hedgehog ;)
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Hey Borg, are you saying that carpet cleaning is more profitable than window cleaning? I always thought that it was the other way round ???
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Hey Kacc, I don't need any help with wfp, in fact I do a good job with it. That is because I take my time and do it properly including cleaning the frames, not a splash and hope for the best as we saw in Peters video, I don't need any help especially not from someone who has no pride in their work! :o
Hedgehog ;)
you know hedgehog I'm going to be quite blunt about this - you're an ignorant git. Nearly all your recent postings have been spiteful and aggressive - if you don't like how Peter does his work then fine, you don't need to come online and try and put him down, I tell yousomething I work as quick as Peter does in the video and never have a problem, Turbo Terry Burrows is a heck of a lot quicker than most trad cleaners but he still does a good job - I don't hear anyone complaining that he must be doing a bad job.
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Hey Mr 123, if I wanted a job done right I would certainly ask someone else, and certainly not you >:( another splash and hope merchant. I assume you are also a £2.50 merchant, coz thats all your worth if you clean like in the wfp video ;D By the way Kacc knows I don't mean him any harm, its all done tongue in cheek ;)
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I don't think that anyone really believes that a window can be cleaned properly Peter fogill style ;D not even Ian if he's honest ::)
by the way Ian, please stop deleting my posts >:(
Groundhog, you are not the only one to get pointless points removed, you just make more of them than anyone else!! :o
any post you or anyone else makes that is relevant to the thread they are replying too does not get touched.
Replies with no more than emoticons on or totally out of context, will, if read by me get deleted.
Some of those on this thread are quite borderline due to the aggressive and bullish nature of them.
And you are Wrong Groundhog, The job Peter is doing is fine.
That one window took him 17 seconds.
I timed myself on a set of patio doors and did them in 13 seconds.
This was done in the two handed trad style.
If the customer or anyone else saw me working at this pace there is no way they would think I was doing a proper job, but I was, and this was a lot faster than Peter could have done them with WFP.
I was racing by the way when I did this, done at normal work pace, including detailing it took me 45 seconds.
but this has nothing to do with the thread!!
but the thread has now mutated......
Ian
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Can somebody please delete Ian's post as it is not relavant! ;D
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Ian please cheer up mate, if you have your way this forum will become a dull and boring place were everyone just drones on about window cleaning and how fantastic wfp is, sometimes an irrelavant post is just what is needed to liven the place up a little, and a little light hearted banter never did anyone any harm ;)
If you carry on deleting posts just because you don't like them you will kill off all the fun from this forum, and it will end up a ghost forum like cleaning pros has become where you get just a handful of posts everyday :(
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As for the Peter Fogill video, I am not going to make any further comment on it, you know my opinion is that it takes a little more effort to clean a window properly than that, and that's all I am going to say on the matter. We will have to agree to disagree on that one! ;)
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:P Please don't delete me Ian! ;D
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Groundhog.....your last post was so obbsesive and over the top it just had to go 8)
Dude, Were I not a moderator I'd be making quips all over the place and risking the wrath of whoever was in my place :-\
All sorts read the forum, many wanting to see proper answers to their questions or to read well thought out debates.
Too many humorous quips tend to make it like a closed shop, with outsiders not welcome.
you must remember we have a section on the board for us all to go and have a little fun, post jokes, have a laugh and be lighthearted.
Left unchecked it is all to easy for threads to decay into jokey one liners and smiley faces.
This doesn't mean you can't inject humour into replies you may make, but it has to be in context.
Frankly it can get irritating when you have to scroll through endless replies of one liners when you are looking for inforation, or you have started a thread wanting a question answered only for it to be hijacked by jokers.
I know I should not have to respond and answer to your own post, but this is still a serious, professional forum, not somewhere for a few mates to meet online and have a laff'
I don't set the rules remember, they are laid down by admin.....
Ian
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Hey Ian, the reason that I and many others like me originally started to use this and other similar forums was to get information or inforation as you call it ;D but the reason we keep logging on to these sites is because they can be fun as well as informative, we are window cleaners, not a boring stuffy bunch of suit wearing stiffs, lets keep it light hearted for the sake of the forum! ;D
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:-*
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As you've blown me a kiss I'll not delete that! ::)
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Thanks Ian, I know that you love me really! ;D