Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: 24-7 S C Services on September 17, 2006, 07:44:58 am
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Attention all FWC Members
Over the last couple of months, some internal happenings within the Federation of Window Cleaners, in my view is not right and very unethical.
I am appealing to all current members of the FWC to forward me their contact details.
Some members of the Executive committee are doing what I class as unethical underhanded dealings, involving member’s money without asking the members.
The FWC over the last several years has not followed through and represented the industry and promoted its members and the information I have received will open your eyes.
If all members of the FWC join together, it will be possible to make the changes that are needed in order to change the internal running and let the genuine committee members who want to change the FWC move forward.
Please forward me your email addresses.
Many Thanks
Andrew
Amullen247@aol.com
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OOhhh intresting tell us more... :D
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didnt mr hanson try this, he then got kicked out
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Hi Matt yes,
And on Friday when I tried to renew my membership they gave me the run around so I have no doubt that is what will happen.
Andrew
PS. Does it not shout out that there are serious misgivings within the committee, where they won’t answer questions?
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Andrew
Whilst I am behind you all the way I would advise you to be very carefull about how you handle this.
Be very carefull indeed about anything you put in writing even on forums such as this. Make sure you are on rock steady ground and that you state only facts that can be proven.
I left the Fed a while ago because I did not feel it trully represented the interests of it's members so can't get involved in this.
I am just concerned that your integrity may lead you into trouble with a suit for defamation landing on your doorstep.
People in general don't seem to realise that this can happen and feel that they are immune from the legal consequences of what they state on the internet. No-one is immune at all.
All the very best with this one Andrew but please in your own interests be very carefull.
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Hi Matt yes,
And on Friday when I tried to renew my membership they gave me the run around so I have no doubt that is what will happen.
Andrew
PS. Does it not shout out that there are serious misgivings within the committee, where they won’t answer questions?
the whole mr hanson episdoe stank of a cover up, from what i read and ive been told by others, it really was shocking
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I have been a member for over 14 years but what has gone on, I have not renew this year and wont again – it’s the members money not the Feds and what they are doing with it is out of order :(
Andy
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Hi Extremeclean
Thank you for your words of wisdom. However, I am fully covered on all aspects here with this episode.
A couple of people on the Executive committee seem to think they can just do things and get away with it. However, not on this occasion. And I can guarantee once I get in contact with all the members, that heads will roll so to say.
Andrew
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You are most welcome Andrew and I wish you all the best.
I have a feeling that I know the main issue in question and it should be brought to the attention of all the members.
I learned the hard way about defamation. One night after having one over the eight so to speak I sent an email to a few people about a certain company that I was feeling aggrieved towards. A few months later I settled out of court on my solicitors advice :(
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What goes around, comes around !! ;)
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Have you asked the Fed for a explanation of what they are doing , and why.
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Hi John
Yes I did mate and they made me wait over a month for a reply and when it arrived, they said they would not tell me, as I have not paid this years fees. So I phoned Friday afternoon to renew my membership in a hope of getting the answers and I was told I could not do it over the phone. I am sure if I send the cheque in etc, that they will rather refuse the application or stall until they have completed what they are trying to do.
Many Thanks
Andrew
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In the past I have renewed my membership over the phone
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Hi John
Yes I did mate and they made me wait over a month for a reply and when it arrived, they said they would not tell me, as I have not paid this years fees. So I phoned Friday afternoon to renew my membership in a hope of getting the answers and I was told I could not do it over the phone. I am sure if I send the cheque in etc, that they will rather refuse the application or stall until they have completed what they are trying to do.
Many Thanks
Andrew
whats the odds on they decline your application to renew
trouble-makers are allways "binned" ;)
funny thing the "new blood" were s.posed to bring the fed into the real world, seems they failed
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John, we will be at Admiral heights tommorow, come and see us
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Chris
I will call and see how a proffesional does it
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Good afternoon everyone,
Despite giving the FWC Executive committee every chance possible to answer my questions they have failed. Which believe is a sign of possible corruption within the committee (not all committee members). I have also been advised by one-committee members that due to me asking questions etc, I will not be allowed to renew my membership. Which is going to cost me in excess of £1,200.00 to have new advertising material printed and my letterheads, comp slips and business cards redesigned, just because I wanted to know the truth.
Due to this, I feel it is essential to make every FWC member aware of what is currently going on and how I feel that Several of the Senior Executive committee are abusing their positions of trust members have given them.
All the information I have received is factual and the information I am prepared to share with FWC members is also factual. Once you have reviewed this information, I will leave it up to the individuals to draw their own conclusions.
However it is essential, if after reviewing this information, if you feel that what is happening is a sign of abuse of a position or even corruption you must do something about it and not sit down and assume someone else will.
Those of you who have kindly forwarded me your details, I will send you the details shortly. If you are a member of the FWC, please contact me ASAP, if you know of any members who are not on the forums, will you please forward me their contact details.
Many Thanks
Andrew
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Hi Andrew
Thanks for your warning I was in the procces of becoming a member, but after reading you threads I have now withdrawn my application, and for the money saved I can put it towards a spare pump or similar. Once again thank you.
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what if we are not members, can we still be told whats going on
as im fairly nosey and need to know ;)
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Yes spill the beans please or we might join the FWC ;D and not the AWPC.
Doug
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Hi everyone,
I know everyone wants to know and I don’t blame you all. However, please understand, I must try and do this by the book.
So if anyone forwards me their details and states that they are an FWC member, I will supply them with the details. If they then supply you or any other person with the details, that is down to them.
Andrew
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fair enough i guess
just incase any1 feels the need my e.mail address is on the side ;)
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thanks for all the e.mail folks :)
i now know the shocking details, so people can stop sending me them
big thanks go out to Mr X and Mr Nobody (you lot should get out more ;), or at least contact MI5 ;))
FED members, Get in touch with Andrew NOW, its your FED, these clowns should be representing YOU, you should have a say
i notice how no1 has commented from the FED, silence is defening
Oh and well done andrew
a disclaimer, i dont know if they are clowns, they might have red noses and big shoes, this is just hearsay and not libelous in any way, shape or form
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Hi Matt
I will gladly answer any questions that any members want answering! My details are on my website. One thing you do need to consider is that the fwc is managed by a commitee and the majority vote gets what it wants. I would also like to point out i was not one of the majority.
Steve
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Hi Matt
I will gladly answer any questions that any members want answering!
Steve, as you know full well im not a member, i think in this thread i have stated that fact, many will say "its nothng to do with me", whilst i agree with that to a degree, the FED was setup to represent Window cleaners (its members who are window cleaners really) but you are a mouth piece of the industry by default
i guess i wouldnt be a be able to become a member, because i would be asking questions after the PH episode and now this current "episode", ive done a bit of work with the GMB whilst i was working for a local council, what went on at the grass roots level was a joke, nevermind what went on higher up the "food chain", thus i would never join up and be party to this
I would also like to point out i was not one of the majority.
so i guess you dont agree with what the others are doing, you must have been 1 of the few who abstained from voting. good on you for having morals
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I spoke to 2 Fed members who are unaware of what is going on, problem is
they are not on the internet. ( old guys )
How do they obtain this info if it is that bad.
Cheers
Doug
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Hi Matt
I will gladly answer any questions that any members want answering!
Steve
I find this a strange attitude to take with the many potential members you could get from the free 'advertising' gained on sites such as this one.
Granted, I'm not a member; I won't ever be one with that sort of stance either; but what's so bad about the FWC that it's all got to be kept 'hushed up'?
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as steve has stated the majority vote will always get its way even though i personally did as steve has done and i would also answer any fed members querys as best i can
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I spoke to 2 Fed members who are unaware of what is going on, problem is
they are not on the internet. ( old guys )
How do they obtain this info if it is that bad.
Cheers
Doug
you could get a FED member to send you the details, then print them out
OR
get the details off the bloke and E>mail it to andrew, he will give you the details and your away
good job people like andrew are on the ball, otherwise members would have been like mushrooms
its all very underhand and secret
another saucer of cream any1 :P :P
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Would it be possible for a Fed Member to ask the question, 'What's going on?' on this forum, so we can see what the FWC is about?
The secrecy and the sound of 'under-handed dealings' is killing me.
What's so bad that Steve Lowe and Paul Smith, both Executive Members of the FWC Committee (I think) couldn't or wouldn't or refused to vote against?
I have a little-bit of an accountancy background behind me, and I reckon it's something to do with the investments the FWC have made; and certain memebers of the Committee are going to profit from them.
IE. Some individuals on the Executive Comittee are going to profit from FWC member's, membership money.
Am I right? Close?
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Hi everyone
I would like to commend Steve and Paul for coming forward and being slightly open on this situation (I say slightly because if they answered none FWC members questions, they would probably loose their positions on the committee). It is great to see these two guys have morals and have followed them, give yourselves a pat on the back.
What is amazing (well it isn’t really) is that none of the top notches (no disrespect to you two guys) have answered any questions on the forums or issued any form of statement on the matter. But like other people in the past, when a question is raised, the doors get closed, which does more damage than good.
I have spoken to several FWC members on phone about the issues I have raised and the web site where all the information is. My firm belief is people are not reading the site properly or reading between the lines. For some strange reason, they all believe it is about me not wanting them to buy the building. Well yes, I do not want them to buy the building, why should they?
The FWC have been in the building for in or around 40 years. They would be classed as sitting tenants, due to this; the building would have to be sold by the insurance society with them as tenant. Granted the building may have to be sold at a lower value, due to the new owners having tenants. But this happens all the time. So why do they want to purchase it?
Please all FWC members, take your time reading the information and digest it.
Many Thanks
Andrew
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Just bumping this topic up, so no FWC members miss it ;D
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Hi mate
I have emailed you but heard nothing I am a member have been for years and have not heard of any problems please explain i'll to give member no ect if you require
its sad the world and his wife Know and thier not members im still in the dark
my details are shown at the side
regards grant
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Time to clear one thing up at this stage,if you thought I was on the Board I am not,I have been off for quite a while now my personal reasons for coming off,the main one Traveling 250mls for a meeting :o other than that
I did enjoy the meetings and getting insight to our Industry, and I do miss the Board around the table :) pity it was all to far away
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Don't join either join the nawc ;D
www.nawc.biz
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why all the s55t .thats what i want to no.u are putting people of joining???? >:(
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well ??? ???
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Hi Tosh
Give yourself a pat on the back mate, you can see exactly what is happening. I just wish some of their members could see this.
Andrew
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well ??? ???
Well what?
Ducky, are you a member?
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why all the fuss about buying a building. ::)was thinking of joining.
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Hi everyone,
As this subject is going to continue and continue, I thought I would share this letter with those interested, which I received from the FWC today.
What surprises me, is the fact I also received information today saying that this was not a committee decision and that only two people made the decision. Again, signs of a dictatorship at work: -
Dear Mr Mullen
Following your constant emails and recent defamatory Internet activities, the federation sought legal advice and have been instructed to inform you that should these slanderous activities continue we will consider legal action in this respect.
Your subscription will not be accepted at this time and your cheque is attached to this letter.
As for the defamatory Internet activities and slanderous activities, (slanderous is spoken not written) these can only be used if the information I have provided is incorrect, which it is not. For those FWC committee members reading this, ‘Go ahead and carry out your threat as per the letter’.
As for my membership, I've stated my intentions about this subject and intend to see it through.
To any FWC members out there, that are sick of the apparent mismanagement and the overall so called secret society, you have the power to change this!!!!!
Andrew
Ps I know several of the FWC committee members come on this forum, perhaps you will have the decency to answer this question.
Q. Where you given the opportunity to vote on my membership renewal?
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Your subscription will not be accepted at this time and your cheque is attached to this letter. [/b] [/color]
Can they do this without giving a reason why?
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Hi everyone,
As this subject is going to continue and continue, I thought I would share this letter with those interested, which I received from the FWC today.
What surprises me, is the fact I also received information today saying that this was not a committee decision and that only two people made the decision. Again, signs of a dictatorship at work: -
Dear Mr Mullen
Following your constant emails and recent defamatory Internet activities, the federation sought legal advice and have been instructed to inform you that should these slanderous activities continue we will consider legal action in this respect.
Your subscription will not be accepted at this time and your cheque is attached to this letter.
As for the defamatory Internet activities and slanderous activities, (slanderous is spoken not written) these can only be used if the information I have provided is incorrect, which it is not. For those FWC committee members reading this, ‘Go ahead and carry out your threat as per the letter’.
As for my membership, I've stated my intentions about this subject and intend to see it through.
To any FWC members out there, that are sick of the apparent mismanagement and the overall so called secret society, you have the power to change this!!!!!
Andrew
Ps I know several of the FWC committee members come on this forum, perhaps you will have the decency to answer this question.
Q. Where you given the opportunity to vote on my membership renewal?
It sounds like the sort of body that would not be transparent enough for my taste. I thought about joining at one point and even filled in the application form - though never sent it.
As for slander vs. libel. I can't recall the exact circumstances but there are certain conditions where the written word can be referred to as slander rather than libel. I once saw it explained on a legal forum but cannot recall the details of it. The slander/libel laws can cover a wider set of circumstances than might be apparent at face value too so tread carefully. A friend of mine once did a journalism course. After doing the legal part of the course, he was amazed that anything ever got printed at all.
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well thats made my mind up i was in doubt about renewing my subscrition and am glad i have not.
Well done for standing up.
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Hi Everyone
Tosh, it would appear they think they can. However, I have already spoken to my solicitor about this and to refuse my membership without a good reason is a breach of my human rights, so I can therefore peruse this in court.
Shiner, it is a shame you did not send it in, because you could have stood up against these committee members. From what I have seen in the past though, a large number of members would have to stand up all at once; otherwise, well I am sure you can all see what happens, when only one person stands up.
Reah, same as above, the good thing though, you have saved your money this time around.
It is just a shame that members of the FWC are not prepared to do anything about this situation. You guy's should all stand up and take action.
Andrew
PS I notice no committee members have commented on my question yet!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thank you Andrew for the help in saving my money, its now better spend on my grandchildren.
Like Andrew said there has to be team work here guy's, I was always tought there is no I in team work.
I think those of us who have now refused to join and save our money, have shown our support to Andrew, now its upto the members to team together and support him.
Good Luck Andrew
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PS I notice no committee members have commented on my question yet!!!!!!!!!!!
Andrew
what you need is for me to post, then the "watchers" (you know who you are) will be on the phone / e.mail to certain people and they will look in
I urge EVERY member of the farce that it the fed to get on the phone / e.mail the fed and get answers
its your money they are spending to "feather there nests"
its seems the comm members who have posted here dont like whats happening either (is that because they are not in on the deal OR they just know right from wrong, you would hope its the latter ;) )
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I nearly joined years ago, and I'm happy I didnt.
I considered joining a few weeks back for a new business venture but will now join another body.
What strikes me is if the members are not prepared to stand up for there rights and carnt be bothered with it, whats the point in being in it...oh yes so you can say im a member of blah blah, Look I've got the logo on my van and letterhead so I must be a trusted and proffesional wc.... well no it seems there not, if they were they would be shouting from the tree tops that this aledged deal needs looked at and if needed some rules brought in place to stop this from happening again.
Remember this body is here to represent you.
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Andrew
what you need is for me to post, then the "watchers" (you know who you are) will be on the phone / e.mail to certain people and they will look in
I urge EVERY member of the farce that it the fed to get on the phone / e.mail the fed and get answers
its your money they are spending to "feather there nests"
its seems the comm members who have posted here dont like whats happening either (is that because they are not in on the deal OR they just know right from wrong, you would hope its the latter ;)
I believe it is the latter. Having met some of the people involved, I want everyone to be clear that there are people of integrity in the FWC committee. I'm not sure that there was anything really out of order about the deal with the building as owning a place is better than paying rent for a place in the long term. However, it's the shortage of openness that can make it appear that something was amiss.
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They should still have put it to the members
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They should still have put it to the members
That does seem like it should be the way to do things. As I'm not a member, I've no idea what the FWC rulebook says about such things. If the rulebook states that what the committee did was OK, then maybe the membership needs to look at changing the constitution. Of course, assuming that no rules were breached, that can't be applied retrospectively. Also, there would be no point in voting certain committee members out unless there are people prepared to replace them. In any case, I think I once read that the committee can co-opt people onto the committee in certain situations so this may not be effective anyway.
In situations like this, although it may appear to fly in the face of fairness, the rulebook prevails unless it is in breach of Parliamentary law.
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Hi Shiner
I only know several of the committee members and I can vouch for those people. These same people have also stressed publicly that they rather did not vote or abstained from voting because they thought that the actions of other committee members were immoral.
Unfortunately, as for the rulebook. I personally feel it is not worth the paper it is written on!!! I feel that time and time again, this rulebook has not been used by the committee in some situations and other times it has. With everything that is happening to me, I personally feel they are writing the rules as they go along (this may not be true, it is only how I view it).
In addition, one rule that the committee is ignoring is this.
Rule 8.Officers & Committee
Sec 8
No member of the committee of management or member of staff, shall have any financial connection with any firms or persons supplying goods or services to the federation.
The purchase of the building is in direct breach of that rule, because several of the committee members are involved in both sides and will benefit financially from the sale.
Andrew
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These same people have also stressed publicly that they rather did not vote or abstained from voting because they thought that the actions of other committee members were immoral.
Andrew
Surely, had they voted 'No', rather than abstain, would've been better? Unless I'm missing something here.
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I'd more worried about a comittee that wouldnt renew the membership of a member just because he doesnt agree with certain decisions, stinks if you as me.
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All of this should of been discused between FWC Members only not just anyone who wanted to coment.
I remember when the NAWC was first formed , if you was not at that meeting you could not find out anything that was discused
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All of this should of been discused between FWC Members only not just anyone who wanted to coment.
I remember when the NAWC was first formed , if you was not at that meeting you could not find out anything that was discused
but you dont need to be a member to have a opinion (wether your opinion is right or wrong, its still yours ;))
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If its FWC business then FWC members should coment on it .
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If its FWC business then FWC members should coment on it .
Why? Will I receive a letter telling me to shut up too?
I'm not a member of the Conservative party, the National Federation of Women's Institutes, or the Girl Guides, but if I want to comment on them; I will I'm afraid.
What about ex FWC members who're refused to have their membership's renewed?
I take it they should shut up too? Even though it sounds like it's going to be their fees who're going to be lining the pockets of some of the committee members.
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The only thing I would say is Fed members are welcome to go to an AGM
in april in blackpool and disscuss matters,but do they bother there arse
er not many :-\ I am not on the board by the way,all I will say is,in the past all matters have been dealt with in a correct and pro way,that I can say as I was on the Board ;D they have been here for half a centry :)
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If its FWC business then FWC members should coment on it .
Why? Will I receive a letter telling me to shut up too?
I'm not a member of the Conservative party, the National Federation of Women's Institutes, or the Girl Guides, but if I want to comment on them; I will I'm afraid.
What about ex FWC members who're refused to have their membership's renewed?
I take it they should shut up too? Even though it sounds like it's going to be their fees who're going to be lining the pockets of some of the committee members.
i think thats covered it, so no need for me to add anything
thank you tosh ;)
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I take it they should shut up too
I dont remember telling anyone to shut up.
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John,
I thought when you posted:
If its FWC business then FWC members should coment on it .
that it sounded like a euphamism for:
Shut up, it's got nowt to do with you!
Sorry, mate; I'm a Geordie with piles. ;)
I'm going to delete some of my comments; definately this one in about ten minutes; because this thread's getting cluttered with 'off topic' and bitchy comments.
You are obviously entitled to your opinion; the same as the rest of us are; remember though, you don't have to be a member of an organisation to comment or have an opinion of it.
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When the APWC was in the process of being formed, the few people that were at that meeting were the chosen few with regards to what went on.
If you was not at the meeting you could not find out what was discussed ,they even had a secret section on the professional window cleaner forum, just for people who were at the meeting. I think that what has gone on should of been put to the members to decide.I did not know anything about it until Andrew mentioned it .
If the FWC is so bad why does Andrew want to be a member of both
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John,
I thought when you posted:
If its FWC business then FWC members should coment on it .
that it sounded like a euphamism for:
Shut up, it's got nowt to do with you!
Sorry, mate; I'm a Geordie with piles. ;)
I'm going to delete some of my comments; definately this one in about ten minutes; because this thread's getting cluttered with 'off topic' and bitchy comments.
You are obviously entitled to your opinion; the same as the rest of us are; remember though, you don't have to be a member of an organisation to comment or have an opinion of it.
i took it the same way to be honest, if i aint a member i cannot comment, hows that work ?? ?? ?? if this was on a FED forum then fair enough, but its not, its on a open forum
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Thats where it should be on the fed forum, why should it concern people who are not paid up members.
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If you was not at the meeting you could not find out what was discussed ,they even had a secret section on the professional window cleaner forum, just for people who were at the meeting.
I was not at the meeting you're referring to, but was privy to the 'secret' section on the PWC Forum; so you are incorrect.
There was nothing secret about it either; it was just a meeting place to discuss tasks that required doing; and it would've been counter productive to open it up to everyone. It was mostly pretty mundane stuff anyway and common knowledge.
I'm sure if you ask Andrew 24-7 any question on funding or accounts, or anything at all; he'll openly answer it.
But, remember the FWC recently dragged their heels when Philip Hanson (PWC Mag editor and from an accountancy background) asked to see their accounts; a legitimate request under thier rules.
In fact they dragged their heels so much that Philip Hanson's membership ran out and again the FWC refused to renew it.
This post refers:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=12328.0
It seems the FWC are happy to take your membership money from you; but if you start asking THEM questions about money; then the barriers are put up.
Why?
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why should it concern people who are not paid up members.
I suppose, and call me old fashioned, because it concerns fellow window cleaners.
Andrew 24-7 wants to be a paid up member; but they won't allow him.
Again: why?
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Again: why?
Must be a coincidence.
First Philip Hanson and then Andrew 24-7.
Thats where it should be on the fed forum, why should it concern people who are not paid up members.
Being interested in what's going on is not dependant on being a paid up member. A person can be interested for no other reason than they are interested.
Take for instance any political party, they don't just canvas paid up members when there is an issue.
Cheers
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Again: why?
Must be a coincidence.
First Philip Hanson and then Andrew 24-7.
Thats where it should be on the fed forum, why should it concern people who are not paid up members.
Being interested in what's going on is not dependant on being a paid up member. A person can be interested for no other reason than they are interested.
Take for instance any political party, they don't just canvas paid up members when there is an issue.
Cheers
once again, agree'd
I guess some may say "just interested in how to NOT run a federation ::)
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But, remember the FWC recently dragged their heels when Philip Hanson (PWC Mag editor and from an accountancy background) asked to see their accounts; a legitimate request under thier rules.
In fact they dragged their heels so much that Philip Hanson's membership ran out and again the FWC refused to renew it.
It was worse than that I'm afraid, they didnt just drag their heels, they all but refused to let me see the accounts even though the rules clearly state that I had the right (as did any other member)
They put my appointment off 6 (yes six) times, eventually they scheduled my appointment for after a committee meeting. At that meeting it was voted that my membership should be revoked.
I got a letter the next day saying that I had broken the federation's "code of conduct" and my membership was revoked. Was I provided with any evidence of that? Was it even pointed out to me what part of the code I had broken. Of course not, they just wanted me out.
The irony is, Andrew Lee had actually broken the code of conduct by failing to abide by H&S law, evidence was provided and he openly admitted the offense in a public statement that is still on the fed's website. He could have been prosecuted by the HSE for that breach. Was he chucked out?
The Fed's rule book is simply not worth the paper its written on. When the federation blatantly breaks its own rules (as it did in my case), what can you do? Nothing really, and they know that.
Window cleaners themselves have got better things to worry about than a disgruntled ex-fed member, and no amount of shame will make Andrew Lee, Bryan Dolby or Beryl Murray resign. It is these three that "run" the federation, all of the other committee members, well intentioned as they are, as sidelined in any serious vote. You have to remember that Andrew Lee, who as far as I have been able to tell pretty much runs the show, holds two committee positions. He is both the vice chairman and the H&S officer, so even if the fed did follow its own rules (which is a joke) he could not be removed from the committee by a single vote. It would take at least two years.
Heck, an employee of the fed's H&S officer was shown on Newsnight working illegally and breaking the WAH regulations!! If that wasn't enough to make him resign, you have to wonder what would be.
Beryl Murray libeled a manufacturer in 2004, and the resulting legal action cost the federation £40,000 in damages plus a similar amount in costs. Was she disciplined? Was she forced to resign? Ha, no chance.
Bryan, Andrew and Beryl are welded to the fed, and the only way it will ever change is if they retire, or the fed eventually dwindles away to nothing. Probably both will happen at the same time.
-Philip
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Hi John
I agree, due to one influencing individual in the early days of the PWCA, that everything was kept top secret. But after certain people left the original committee, things changed and the APWC was born. Since its formation in February, allot of information has been kept from the public eye, because if all the information was released, other associations would have put into action the APWC ideas, before the APWC even open its doors. For example the plastic ID card the fed now does.
Why do I want to be a member of both? Well two things really, both the associations offer different things at present, so overall I am getting slightly more benefits from being a member of both than just one. However, the main factor is, two months ago I spent £500 on new leaflets which have the FWC logo on, if I am not a member, I cannot use them. So I would prefer to spend £85 on being a member for another year, than throwing £500 down the toilet. Plus, there are other costs involved! Re-designing letterheads, comp slips, business cards, flyers.
If there was a forum just for the FWC, the posts would be on there however, they do not have their own forum. Due to this, the only real way of informing their members is to announce publicly on the forums to get the FWC members attention.
It is also like you have said John, no member of the FWC was aware of what is going on and if I did not post on the forums, they would not know until it had happened and then all the true details would not have come to light.
Also, I will stress this point and I am sure one of their committee members will confirm this. Prior to announcing this whole episode on the forums, the FWC refused to answer my questions on this matter and I was also informed, by a committee member that my membership would not be renewed. I then showed the committee the website etc, 24 hours prior to going public, in a hope to get my membership renewed and questions answered. But they failed to respond, hence why all this has started.
Philip, I take my hat off to you, you have said what I have failed to say and I am in total agreement with the comments you have made. However, if the membership was to stand together, I know that the committee can be removed regardless off how many seats they sit on and it can be done prior to an AGM. There are several people on the committee, that have tried so hard to change things, but they are blocked each time. Oh, this is only hearsay, but from the information I received, it was not a committee decision that revoked your membership, rather one or two individuals decided it themselves. Just like what has happened to me. One or two individuals have made the decision. Two committee members have already come forward on the other forum stating they where not asked to vote.
Andrew
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Andrew
Like you said no member of the FWC were aware of what was going on . But most of the posts are from non members. If they were that concerned they should join and have there say at the AGM
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What's happening the the Fed happens in time to many organisations. A while back the Labour party was often refered to as the 'Labour movement'. The trade unions were the 'trade union movement'. Terms that refer to a bygone age that spurned both.
I was a member, when I worked on the railways, of an institutionalised ASLEF where top union members (the ones not employed by ASLEF) did no actual work in their jobs as originally employed for by the railways but were instead on first name terms which high up management and agreed on things behind closed doors beforehand. They were in each others pockets and the principles of both became compromised by familiarity.
As with the Fed, their day is done, their time has come and it's change or die.
The Labour party and the Union 'movement' have both dropped that term (and I am just making a point, I am not political in any way) and have adjusted to the now. ASLEF are trying to. As are a lot of organisations. As for the Fed?
From what I read, not only from this forum but from other places also, the Fed will not change. They are determined that time will stand still. What was a honour and for the good of the whole, in terms of position and intention, has become 'how it is' generated by years of regiment and tired habits from yester year. The top dogs have got stale and it all has become an institution in the worst sense of the word. 'This is how it is, and that is it.' Don't rock the boat, as we're all comfortable with things the way they are.
I think it's like a fan when when the current is turned off, it takes a while for the blades to stop turning. I cannot see the FED lasting very long in it's present format. Even their website hasn't changed much for years.
The above is just my opinion and I may be wrong.
Cheers
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Thats where it should be on the fed forum, why should it concern people who are not paid up members.
I'm not a member but have thought about joining at times. Things that are posted on here can help me in that decision - though I doubt they'd have me even if I wanted to join.
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I agree with Shiner.
I thought about joining before, but if it wasn't for the info posted on here people would never know what was going on until it was too late.
Good on you Andrew, it's nice to see people who have an interest in what we do and are willing to warn/advise people.
I'm glad i never joined if this is how they treat their members
Craig
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I've never posted this before because I never thought it appropriate.
I tried to become a member 3 years ago (before I found this forum) and sent off a letter with my application form asking quite a few serious questions. Afterall, I was paying hard cash and I expect a return for my money and an answer to what I was asking which was about how members money was spent as I did not want to subscribe to an organisation that lined the pockets of some at the expense of many.
My cheque was cashed but I heard nothing back from them.
After quite a few further letters I got one back saying my membership had been declined.
After a threat of the small claims court over them cashing my cheque, I got my money back.
To me that says it all and I have records that can be produced if legally required that back up what I am writing.
Not quite in the same league as Mr Hanson or Andrew 24-7 but in a small way, an indicator non the less.
Hence my interest in the Federation of Master Window Cleaners.
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I'd like to hear the views of any long-serving Fed Members about this.
Are there any here?
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Summerfieldgate rumbles on
Andrew, have any of the board members been in touch with you since this started ?? ?? ? ??
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Hi Matt,
I have spoken to a couple of the committee members (the ones I would class as genuine guys) and they have tried to help me, but as usual, the top people will not budge.
I have sent two letters in response to their letter received at the weekend, but again as usual, no reply. These top people are praying I will stop and let it drop, but I am not going to. I have also stated that the committee or I should say several of their committee members are in breach of the FWC rules. But again, it is one rule for the committee and another rule for the members (that’s how it appears to be).
The really annoying thing is. The committee representatives that want to get everything sorted cannot do anything, because the top guys control the majority of the votes. So even though these top people are in breach of the their own rules, if any of the other committee members brought it up, they would probably end up being booted out, because the majority voters would see to it.
As people have already commented. If these old fossils are not removed, the FWC will die a slow death. This is why their members need to stand up now and change things before it is to late.
Andrew