Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: P®oPole™ on September 15, 2006, 11:46:50 am
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When using poles 25ft and above,
would you stand in one spot using only your arms?
or move your whole body around, doing a little jig and bouncing around, steppin back and forth for the scrub, and stepping side to side for the rinse.
The reason I ask this is because I imagine it would be pretty hard with the brush off the glass, there is no way you can do the side to side step becauce the window hasnt got the pole resting against it lightly therefore meaning your arms would have to work over time surrpoting the pole. Because if it was lightly on the glass the frame would stop it falling to the left when you step right, some of you know what i mean.
Does this mean that the brush off brigade are at even more risk?
Im rather worried by my finds on the other thread I started for the majority of the time it was 60/40 in favor of the brush off brigae. The amount of you guys rinsing brush off is ludacris. The only thing I can think of is that guys rinsing brush off must only be doing it at 18ft on domestic stuff. Because when you go higher you need to use your body not your arms and must rinse brush on to achive such a teqnique.
All replys and opinions welcome.
ProPole
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I find the further away from the building the easier the scrub is, as you are able to step back and forth, without much movement from your arms, but the rinse is more difficult. I do generally rinse, by tipping brush head to an angle, and using arms to rinse side to side.
However, if I stand closer (ie with a shorter pole), if find that the rinse is a lot easier, but the scrub is more work, as you have to move your arms to get the brush the full length of the glass because the pole is shorter, and there is a steeper angle.
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Good reply simbag ;)
Standing further away takes alot of the strain out of the operater, its all about stepping back and forth for the scrub. Also tilting the brush when rinsing is good on certain windows and helps to feel more confidient about leaving the brush on, or at leat sometimes on depending on the task at hand.
Although I rarley take mine off, I will only lift my brush off on minni pole work if the window is sheeting like mad. If it beads in the slightest I will leave it on. Double trim brushes kept clean with monoflaminent (however you spell it) bristles, high flow rate 2ltrs + p.m with good technique, is how its done. However there is times even at 18ft I will lift my brush off but only a handfull thoughout the day.
Regards
ProPole
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I get by on 1/2 litre per min.
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I get by on 1/2 litre per min.
Hi Jeff,
that means you would be alot slower and will probably use the same amount of water or more. and put considerable strains on your body with the brush off teqhnique, I know you are using super light fishing rod poles but in general, its longer and harder work, for identical results.
Regards
Alex
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Hi Alex.
Where abouts are you in london mate.
Macc
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North London, near Enfield, can I be of any assistance mate?
Regards
Alex
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Alex there may be another consideration, I clean glass only and charge at least double if they want the frames doing (not many round will pay that ) I could easily use 2 litres per min but find that in the rural area I live, you need to use just enough water for the job you are doing. Obviously local/weather conditions affect useage.
I thought you guys down there were supposed to be cutting back with the drought orders and leading by example. ?
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Jeff I conserve water to a degree but I will use as much water as I need at that time or job im doing. As as I mentioned earlier more water = faster working rate which= roughly about the same amount of water used. But more work can be achived at the end of the day with the faster working rate.
Please could you answer my question about technique, do you use your arms or your body to manouver the poles when cleaning windows.
Kind Regards
ProPole
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Well I am just in the process of recovering from a damaged elbow (Bursitis) that swole up like and egg, so have had to clean basically on handed for the last 2 weeks, using the light poles. I had to use my opposite hand singly just using the dammaged arm as a guide to do this.
The rules on the right technique have changed for me since Januaruy 8th as I now only will ever use fishing poles which are very, very extremely light and I no longer have to work with the risk of injury ?
To try to answer you question, 8 yrs previous to that I mainly used Unger alu or Ionocs ergolight with a backpack and just used my upper body and arms.
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North London, near Enfield, can I be of any assistance mate?
Regards
Alex
Hi Alex.
I like the way you talk & your attitude. Ive only been wfp 10 months now & was wondering if icame up for a day next month i could work with you, you seem to know a bit about wfp & im always open to tips. Ive a Tucker van mount so i will come with my set up.
Macc
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North London, near Enfield, can I be of any assistance mate?
Regards
Alex
Hi Alex.
I like the way you talk & your attitude. Ive only been wfp 10 months now & was wondering if icame up for a day next month i could work with you, you seem to know a bit about wfp & im always open to tips. Ive a Tucker van mount so i will come with my set up.
Macc
Hi Macc,
That wouldnt be a problem, although im not sure how much you can learn from little old me. I to have only been wfp for about 11 months and learning new tricks everyday, however I would be more than happy to have you work along side me for a day an pick eachothers brains to learn different tricks and techniques which we have both picked up along the way.
Drop me an email sometime mate, and we can make an arrangement.
Your doggs are the nuts mate, are they a breeding pair of Rotts?
Kind Regards
Alex
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I modified one of our brushes slightly - it means we are always rinsing off the glass as it were. take a look and you'll see what I mean.
Patent applied for.
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Hi JM123,
Could you please answer a question that I have, seen as you supply brushes and poles etc, what is the correct method of using poles.
would you recommend rinsing brush on or off?
and what technique, body or arms?
I like the idea of jets (not fan) above bristles or brush, if you get the patent you could be onto a winner there mate. has anyone done this before as tom_thinks_he_knows_it_all_currie said tucker have this design or similar already.
Look Foward to your reply,
Regards
Alex
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I have a vastly improved design that I am having a patent search carried out on. Personally I feel its much better to rinse off the glass, but with some brushes the water and dirt flows freely enough to allow the operator to rinse on the glass. Its horses for courses, all I'm saying is that if you rinse off the glass you never need to worry about the bristles being contaminated.
However, with the brush pictured as you come down the glass the jets are above the bristles at all times - hence the same as risnsing off the glass. Also I have removed over half of the bristles, making it ridiculously light, also allowing the remaining bristles to splay out a lot more thus making the brush much nicer to use.
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Hi Alex.
Ive emailed my numbers to you.
There both boys, thanks mate there wicked, Breno has had his off but Major still has his tackel but i would not breed from him as he has a bit of a hip prob, his temperment is perfect so its a shame. Im going to get a stud Rott then i get choise of litter each time.
Im sure theres a few things you could teach me, hopefully the other way too.
Give us a call & we can have a chat. ;D
Macc
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Thats the ticket JM. Drilling out the spaces is bril;liant and also removing bristles you dont need creates a pattern that allows the bristles to scrub on their sides and press on the glass. Gazs bristles are "crooked" and should in theory be great,but too many makes it a bit s"tiff", maybe its a topic for us all-What makes your ideal brush ? , instead of adapting a basic floor brush. Bristle length is also important.
Whats the weight JM ?
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Ok look foward to it, I will give you a call sometime over the weekend mate.
Regards
Alex
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Propole, what brush do you use?
Peter Fogwill
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Ok look foward to it, I will give you a call sometime over the weekend mate.
Regards
Alex
Cheers Alex, im out tommorrow till about 5. ;D
Macc
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I use a double trim Ionics brush.
I will soon be trying out a couple of new brushes, but only from suppliers that recommend brush on ;) tell me Peter what brushes do you sell, any pics?
Also Peter while im here, I would like to ask you why I can no longer sign into my account on your forum, I need something edited, can you do this for me or elaberate please?
Kind Regards
ProPole
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I use a double trim Ionics brush.
I will soon be trying out a couple of new brushes, but only from suppliers that recommend brush on ;) tell me Peter what brushes do you sell, any pics?
I thought it may have been a choice of three brushes and the Ionics brush is one of them. It seems like a good brush although I have never used one, I could tell that it would be OK for on the glass rinsing. The other brush apart from mines that seems like a good window cleaning brush is the Tucker brush. I use the Salmon, you can see one here http://www.window-tools.com/auto.htm Now please no comments about rinsing off the glass, or missing the frames, or not scrubbing properly. These videos are for demonstration purposes only ::)
Groundhog please don't look as these videos are as unprofessional as the last ones.
Also Peter while im here, I would like to ask you why I can no longer sign into my account on your forum, I need something edited, can you do this for me or elaberate please?
Kind Regards
ProPole
If you email me some details like user name and or password, I can look into it for you.
Peter Fogwill[
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Thats the ticket JM. Drilling out the spaces is bril;liant and also removing bristles you dont need creates a pattern that allows the bristles to scrub on their sides and press on the glass. Gazs bristles are "crooked" and should in theory be great,but too many makes it a bit s"tiff", maybe its a topic for us all-What makes your ideal brush ? , instead of adapting a basic floor brush. Bristle length is also important.
Whats the weight JM ?
Cheers Jeff, but if the truth be told the spaces are where the bristles were, I've simply pulled them out. If you look closely I have patterned the bristles I have left in to create channels for the water to flow through. As for the weight I haven't weighed it but its a good deal lighter than before. The bristles are quite long but again I've been working on that with the new brush I plan to sell in the near future, don't want to say much right now but it should be good.
Thanks for the support guys.
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JM after some thought, it still looks great. I had a brush that I cut the bristle length down by 1" every other tuft to try to reduce the stiffness but increase the scrubbing power, Its the ends of the brush that wear by going into the corners and frames, and to state the obvious JM if a composite bristle pattern could be made so that a slightly harder wearing bristle was on the ends, but as I suggested maybe its a different topic.
I lightened one of Gazs brushes to 7.9ozs so would guess that your brush will weigh about 6.5oz without the jets, assuming that you have also thinned the back down.
They used to make really light brushes in the 60s I have seen a car janitors brush that looked like a trad brush but was very light, probably gone into history by now as after years of searching havent found my holy grail "foam head" brush :D
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Macc,
I didnt recive the email mate, my web master hasn't shown me how get into my site email yet (alex@), aqua_clear@msn.com is good.
Will give you a call sunday.
Regards
Alex
aqua_clear@msn.com
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I thought it may have been a choice of three brushes and the Ionics brush is one of them. It seems like a good brush although I have never used one, I could tell that it would be OK for on the glass rinsing. The other brush apart from mines that seems like a good window cleaning brush is the Tucker brush. I use the Salmon, you can see one here http://www.window-tools.com/auto.htm Now please no comments about rinsing off the glass, or missing the frames, or not scrubbing properly. These videos are for demonstration purposes only ::)
Thanks for the reply Peter, That salmon brush looks very good mate, I might tempt myself to try one, can also clean with brush on you say. A very good U.S.P. ;)
I have emailed you.
Kind Regards
Alex
Lets go back to this thread then fellas, genuine opinions and replys value and welcome.
Using poles, arms or body?
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Macc,
I didnt recive the email mate, my web master hasn't shown me how get into my site email yet (alex@), aqua_clear@msn.com is good.
Will give you a call sunday.
Regards
Alex
aqua_clear@msn.com
Hi Alex, just sent email, let us know if you got it mate. ;D
Macc
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Yea got it matey ;)
look foward to speaking to you,
Regards
Alex
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Great, nice one. ;D
Macc
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I tend to use arms and upper body only, but I am a big bloke.
One thing that worries me about rinsing on is this. The last job I do on a window is run along the sill. This is to wash away all the dirt that comes off the glass and frames. This means that the next window is being cleaned with all the dirt from the sill still on it. If I rinse brush on, how do I know that all the dirt from the previous sill is washed out? I think rinsing on would be OK with over the brush jets. If your jets are in the middle of your brush then the top half of the brush could still contain dirt. That's why I play it safe and rinse off the glass. Dai
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I tend to use arms and upper body only, but I am a big bloke.
One thing that worries me about rinsing on is this. The last job I do on a window is run along the sill. This is to wash away all the dirt that comes off the glass and frames. This means that the next window is being cleaned with all the dirt from the sill still on it. If I rinse brush on, how do I know that all the dirt from the previous sill is washed out? I think rinsing on would be OK with over the brush jets. If your jets are in the middle of your brush then the top half of the brush could still contain dirt. That's why I play it safe and rinse off the glass. Dai
Dai, after you have rinsed the sill off just flick your hand over the bristles, this will remove any crap that you may have picked up, but i find once your on top of your cleans there is very little dirt upon them anyway.
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Ronaldo, I can't be bothered to drop my pole down to ground level after every window I do. It would take longer than rinsing off the glass. Dai
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Dai, thats a fair comment but thats how i do it and never have any problems and i,m like a flying machine when i get going and it doesnt slow me down but i suppose its just how your used to doing it and we all have different techniques dont we, as long as your making a steady living at it mate and you can whistle why you work thats all that matters aint it ;)
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Hi dai,
Sorry mate only just seen your reply, the answer to that is providing your using the right brush once you scrub frames and quater light cross bars etc with a little harder scrub. the actuall impurities (that cause spoting) wouldnt be left in the brush they would of been flushed away. There maybe a few non water soluble bits within the brush but these wont affect the finish as they will hold in the brush untill you do clean it after a couple of houses. Or they will simply wash and rinse out like all the dirt and impurities.
Im taking a quote from Peter who took the time to type out this statment in Febuary this year. Hear it is...
"Let me start by clarifying one thing, the most popularly used is not necessary the best. A while ago there was a certain brush manufacturer that caught on to the fact that the reach and wash system and water fed poles in general were gaining popularity among window cleaners, and quite rightly got in on the act. They realised their was big business and started promoting their car washing brushes at trade shows etc, and offering good deals to water fed pole suppliers. They even made some changes to the brush to make them more water fed pole friendly, trouble is they forgot about two main factors that overwhelmingly effected the cleaning power of the brush. Firstly the density of the bristles, their brush is far too dense and this restricts the flow of dirty water passing through the bristles, and working its way down and off the glass. Secondly the bristles were splayed at the ends to make them softer for car paintwork, as glass is a hard surface this was not necessary for a window cleaning brush, it had a negative effect and trapped dirt particles, again restricting the easy passage of dirty water through the brush and down to the bottom of the glass. These two factors although not the only disadvantages makes the most widely used water fed pole brush a nightmare to use.
How did the average window cleaner not notice this? They were supplied with the brush from their supplier, they didn't know any better, after all if you pay good money for a window cleaning system you would expect to be supplied with the best equipment to do the job it was designed to do. Trouble is most of the water fed pole suppliers have never cleaned a window in their life, they picked up on a brush that was being heavily promoted, got a good deal and the rest is history. The window cleaner got round the defects on the brush by brushing the window and then lifting the brush off the glass to give it a final rinse, which is both time consuming and a much higher water consumption over the course of the day.
There is another couple of disadvantages with the brush I am talking about. The weight of the brush, and the shape of the bristles. Again the clever window cleaners has compensated for the weight by using a much smaller brush, the size of the brush brings the weight down considerably, only problem with that is again more time wasted covering the glass with the smaller brush, and again more water wasted as you are on the glass longer. Next there is the shape of the bristles, they are straight. If they were slightly crinkled it would serve as a more aggressive cleaner, as there is a more abrasive contact on any dirt sticking to the glass. Slightly elongated bristles servers the same purpose allowing the bristles to splay more and would allow the non splayed tips of the bristles to come in contact with the dirt. This would also allow for faster cleaning, which in turn reduces water usage."