Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Richy L on September 07, 2006, 04:58:11 pm
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Has anyone done this?
I want to look into it.
I have been offered a lot of work if i get into this by a customer of mine.
I just want to know how much it costs to start doing this,
what type of insurance i need,
and what courses do i have to go on.
ANY help would be appeciated please guys
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anyone?
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i have done it.it is a lot of money for insurce i dont think u need traning for it i never. ;)
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Hi Leeksons
What sort of cradle are you going to be using?
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Leeksons,
Cradle work can or should only be carried out with formal training from the company that tests and maintains the cradle, it only usually takes an hour or 2. Each building will not have the same cradle so usually it means training on every building. When we price for a cradle job we make sure the client covers any training costs and if your'e cheeky you can slip them an invoice for your time spent training, we do and they always pay up. A course that will really benefit anyone working at height is a rope access course so when the cradle breaks down you can then safely get to the deck without having to wait for the cradle company to come out, training costs are around £500 for entry level and you will also need to buy a bit of kit at about £300 per man. Insurance costs depend on if you are a ltd co or sole trader, expect to pay around £700 if you are a sole trader for public liability and around £2000 per employee if you are ltd, don't forget that as a sole trader you will have to ensure any other operatives are insured. Don't work alone and make sure you have a rescue plan in place before you start as some cradles will not move at all if the power fails.
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chris:could you work alonne if your a R.A.T.?
GAZA
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i dont know what type of cradle will be used.
£700 for P.L. that is expensive!
I wouldnt have a clue how to price these jobs though.
How would you do it?
So no training is neccessary to start off then, eh?(except for the cradle i will be using)
I would want to make sure i have a few contracts before i start shelling money out on rope courses.
What type of money could you expect to earn doing this?
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?
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gaza I would not recommend working alone, although when I first started I did take a few risks by working on my own. I've seen a one man cradle before but there should always another guy around to watch his back.
Leeksons, £700 is a small price to pay for the possible damage to property or the public by something being dropped or bouncing the cradle into a large window etc. The building owners usually ask to see your policy when you submit your ms/ra. As to pricing cradle work, it differs on every job, but work out how long a drop will take and what can be done in the day then it's just whatever your daily rate is. We have some very good earning buildings but also some that just about cover the labour. If your busy, between rope access and cradle work two men can turnover ten grand a month easily. Bear in mind this is not all window cleaning work, we do a lot of banner installation and pigeon proofing work alongside the windows. Rope access training is not essential but again it's a small price to pay to keep you safe and you can then also go on to tender for abseil jobs.
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Chris
Do you work in London?
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Caustic,
In the past we have tried to avoid London work as there's enough work here in Manchester, but recently after being in touch with a few guys on here we will be doing some work there
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?
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We do cradle work and Darwin Clayton wanted £6000.00 a year
to insure us :-\
Telboy ;)
Angel C/S
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Try oval insurance brokers in Sheffield, we've been with them for the last 3 years and were the cheapest around and it even went down this year :D. Their number is 01142901111 ask for Jonathan Radcliffe
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Leeksons,
. A course that will really benefit anyone working at height is a rope access course so when the cradle breaks down you can then safely get to the deck without having to wait for the cradle company to come out, ...........[/quote ]
Agree on the rope acess course, but i'm not too sure about bailing out of BMU's the moment they break down . If it was too windy and you were in danger i would recommend it, but if it's a breakdown i think it's best to stay with the machine.
I think most Building Managers would prefer if you stayed with the unit too, you not what they're like
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Nick,
If the breakdown was a broken wire would you stay in the cradle? I didn't mean get out as soon as it breaks down, just meant that one of you can get to the ground safely and get help
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If your busy, between rope access and cradle work two men can turnover ten grand a month easily.
So how much money do you think you should look for for a. Rope access and b.crale work
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........... i mean per hour
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Rope work can be anything from £150 - £350+ a day. There are a lot of factors involved - for a start standard rope access ins is around £12000 a year before you earn a penny. Most big companies will want IRATA trained and reg people, meaning you need a level 3 on site at all times. To become a level 3 is near impossible as a one man band, you need to get 1000+ hours on the ropes WITH a level 3 to progress up the ranks. It's an old boys network unfortunately and very hard nut to crack, even harder being a window cleaner as most rope guys work doing maintence, etc. Window cleaning is a very small part of the work offered.
As for cradle work, you wont get much for doing that, it's a doodle. Training takes place within an hour and your off. The risk is minimal (i've been in a few which have broken down) there is always a manual winch and 9 out of 10 times you can get to the floor in a few minutes.
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foxman,
Standard rope access insurance starts at around £2000 a year for a one man ltd co and increases the same amount for every employee, example 3 employees £6000, until you start to employ more than 7 employees when there is a policy that covers you for up to 20 employees for £14000, that's what I've been quoted anyway from Oval.
To become a level 3 rope access tech is easily achievable if you are willing to put the time and effort into it, get your level 1 course under your belt and do as much rope work as you can, don't forget you can sign your own log book if you work for your self, all you then need is a 1000 hours logged rope access work to progress to level 2, once you've done that get another 1000 hours logged and get an IRATA company or level 3 to recommend you and within 3 years you are a level 3, as you also need a years experience between levels, like I said it's easy.
You DO NOT need a level 3 to progress up the ranks
I take it foxman that you can't crack the nut?
IRATA was formed in the late eighties so as for an old boys network ????
FACT, window cleaners have been proven to spend more hours on the rope than any other trade.
There is not always a manual winch on a cradle, and what about the 1 in 10 chance you can't get to the floor in a few minutes?????????
Before you ask yes I am a level 3
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Thanks for the info chris.
My son who will soon be 18 so will be old enough want to do rope access training but looking at some sites it say that level 1 shold be under the supervision of an IRATA approved level 3 rope access supervisor.
So if i put my son on that course i take it he would not be able to work on his own after he got his level 1.
Or would he.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
IRATA is not the be all and end all of rope access, they are guidelines and recommendations only. Saying that though they have proven to be the safest and most efficient methods of rope access and most people, like ourselves try to work as close to IRATA regulations as possible without becoming a member company as this costs a fortune. http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc612.pdf#search=%22rope%20access%20british%20standard%22 is a hse publication on the safety of window cleaning operatives engaged in rope access methods. There is also an international standard ISO/wd 22846-2 and the british standard BS7985, if you work to these you will be ok. Paul I would recommend your son sit the level 1 course and then try to make sure he works for an IRATA member company (so he has adequate supervision) till he has enough experience to gain level 2, if he want's to be a window cleaner he might find it difficult to find a soley window cleaning Irata company as most irata companies will do window cleaning as a last resort as they think it's beneath them and they don't think that it is a skill to clean a window, I thought like this until I tried to clean a window for the first time ;D, , it was a right mess, don't forget also that it will be a lot different for your son to clean windows while bouncing about on a rope when it's windy.
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Hi Chris
Interesting posting.
Although I am maybe getting on a bit for roped access at 47, I am a qualified abseiling instructor with 25 years experience with a pile of organisations like the Adventure Activities Licensing Authority etc and who are all H & S registered organisations.
You may not know the answer to this and IRATA wouldn't give me a specific answer except to attend their courses.
IRATA seem to be the main people for roped access and certificates. Do you know of anyway to not have to go through level 1, 2 and 3 to get IRATA certificates or any other organisation that takes into account previous provable experience?
On and off for the last 3 years I've been trying to find out but I keep getting nowhere.
Cheers
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ross, up until last year you could get direct entry to level 2 if you could prove your experience, I don't think there is anyway now that you can do this. Irata are an association with only 1 paid employee, the chairman Roderick Dymott and he seems to be doing nothing . Irata guidelines are like the bible(koran for all you muslims) of rope access in many ways, but there is no way now that you can skip levels no matter what experience or certificates you have.
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That's as I thought.
Thanks for the reply.
I run a business and to take time out to get just the hours needed just for level one would be impossible. I'd be an old man before attaining level 3.
That's a real pity. Sometimes I think provable experience counts for zero in todays society.
Cheers.