Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: neil100 on August 22, 2006, 10:00:27 pm
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I have three 85amp lesiure Batterys. I have allways recharged them on trickle charge at 2.4 amps an hour. Once charged my Battery charger switches itself on and off so the battery does not overheat.
I have never drained the batterys right down, I use one till dinner then switch over to the other one. Today at 0ne pm We had used two batterys up, I had to go home to get the other one. I have been wfp for 8 months, Surley the batterys should have a longer life span then this?
How long does every one elses Batterys last?
I wonder if my Battery charger is not working properly? Though this was brand new when I set up 8 months ago.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nel.
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Install a high amperage, heavy duty leisure battery and have it wired up properly by a qualified vehicle electrician to a suitable split charge relay unit so that the battery remains topped up with charge whilst your driving and the battery performs at it's maximum efficiency. Saves the hassle of plugging in an extension lead & battery charger or taking the battery out every evening to charge overnight just to put back into your vehicle in the mornings. If the split charge unit is wired in properly you won't have the worry of having to carry a spare topped up battery in case your engine battery is drained through excessive WFP use simply because the engine battery is not being charged prior to the secondary leisure battery drawing all the amps. MAKE LIFE SIMPLE FOR YOURSELF and do it the easy way!
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we still use our first leisure battery, a 110Ah, it gets charged 3 evenings a week on trickle charge and is still going strong 2 years later.
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The problem with that is that I do not drive great distances for my work. The most distance I travel to work in a month is 9 miles, and when I am there I am stop start all day. Today I only travelled 2 miles to my work and when I was there I will only travel a mile at the most all day. So I would not get much benefit from a split relay.
Thanks, Nel.
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I was told that to fully charge a heavy duty leisure battery with an alternator takes a long distance so I agree I don't think thats an answer myself. Not sure why your battery has failed you.
One thing you could try is using a different charger, I had mine 4 3 weeks & it just stopped charging, bought it off Ebay & the guy comes back from holiday tomorrow so will be ringing him.
Borrow one from somebody & try that before you rush off & buy a new battery.
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I did buy my Batterys from a local cravan company who gave a 2 year gaurantee. I dont know if they will honour it, They may say the batterys still work, which they do, But we worked from 8 to 10.30 this morining and the flow rate dropped like a stone, Had to change the battery over and by one oclock that one had had it too.
I just thought is this normall?
But I will try to get hold of another b.charger tommorw and give it a go.
Nel.
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does your charger have a gauge on it to show how many amps its putting in?
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Mine is also on split charge rely still going strong 3 years later.
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I used to charge mine with trickle charger every night to keep it topped up ........ bought a split charge relay a week ago and have checked battery voltage every night so far, i dont go to far to work and didnt think it would stay charged enough but it still has kept around the 12.5volt mark even monday we worked all day in one place , drove 10 miles to the job and that was it at the end of the day the voltage in it was 12.3 volts .... so its all ok so far
I dont have a leisure battery though mine is a 11ah motorcycle battery cost £24.99 last november and guarenteed for twelve months
Chris
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I did buy my Batterys from a local cravan company who gave a 2 year gaurantee. I dont know if they will honour it, They may say the batterys still work, which they do, But we worked from 8 to 10.30 this morining and the flow rate dropped like a stone, Had to change the battery over and by one oclock that one had had it too.
I just thought is this normall?
But I will try to get hold of another b.charger tommorw and give it a go.
Nel.
Nel for two batteries to go in a short time, points to one of two things.
1. your batteries are not getting a full charge in the first place or
2. you have a fault in your pump or wireing to pull two batteries down in a short period.
Do you have a multimeter???
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I use an 'intelligent' leisure battery charger, my pump is often working 5 solid hours at a time, I've ocasionally gone a couple of days without recharging and have not noticed a drop in output.
Battery is an 85amp one and is over 12 months old.
It sounds as if you have not been fully charging your batteries, if you haven't and your output is falling that drastically then you may well have knackered them.
Ian
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you do realise that a leisure battery must be fully charged when you buy it, if you don't then the battery's memory will be set at lower than peak capacity.
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and also if you use the wrong charger or the charger is malfunctioning you can alter/reduce the memory capacity of the battery, people think batteries are simple little creatures but they're actually very intelligent.
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true, very true. As I always say - buy the best you can get/afford. A top quality battery and top quality charger will last for years with no probs. Reliability is key.
Neil100, if you are running 2 pumps from one battery at a time it may be draining too rapidly, also you should NEVER let a leisure battery become fully discharged.
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JM, I have never let the battery fully discharge itself, Thats why I have three batterys so I can switch over.
I do not know weather my first battery was fully charged up cos Facelift supplied the battery and They would of tested my van system to make sure it all worked, I can only hope they charged the battery before use. My other batterys that I bought I fully charged up before use, So memmory issue should not be an issue.
For the last two days I have been helping a freind out on his round since his car went to the scrap yard in the sky. Used his 110amp battery, First day it was magic, Both Pumps working flat out all day, no problem. Today they were fine up untill the last 2 hours when you could tell the flow rate dropped a bit. But it was adequate, I did nor expect it to last all day today cos he only put it on trickle charge last night after yesterday, so the battery was not at full charge today but it lasted.
Got a new charger today but got a couple of questions?
1. This battery charger is only siutable for Lead Acid Batteries only, Is it ok for a Lesiure Battery.
2. The Largest capacity lead acid battery that should be charged is 70ah. Does that mean it will only charge an 85amp battery up to 70amp?
Thanks for the replys. Nel.
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The battery’s I would recommend for the Trolley, Trailer, and van mounts are all the same and I would recommend the leisure battery for your equipment.
All batteries are manufactured to provide a certain number of deep discharge cycles.
The conventional leisure battery should give a cycling life of between 200-300 deep discharges.
A Gel battery will give between 400-500 cycles and an AGM battery 600-800 cycles.
There are manufacturers that sell leisure batteries that deep cycle up to and over 1000 deep discharge cycles
Batteries fail in cycling life due to a permanent encapsulation of PbS04 on the plates (lead sulphation)
The capacity loss is more rapid with these battery types, the deeper that the battery is discharged, the quicker lead sulphation builds up. Upon recharging the battery, not all of this sulphation is converted back to lead (PB0). The result is a gradual loss in capacity.
Another major reason for premature battery failure is due to the oxide shredding from the plates. Standard lead plates are bound only with acrylic and polyester fibres, they do not serve as reinforcement of the plate. The cycling life of the more expensive battery is much greater than all other battery types because they are built using carbon fibre and this eliminates lead sulphation of the plates permanently. Upon recharging all the original capacity will be replenished. Carbon fibre acts as a mechanical reinforcement fibre to the lead grid and paste reducing shredding.
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By you know your onions Jeff.
I spoke to the caravan company were I bought my Batteries from, He told me to bring them in on Saturday fully charged. They wil then do a Discharge test. From that they will be able to determine if the battery is Faulty, If so they will replace them.
The test also should get rid of the lead sulphate if this is interfering with the chargeing process.
Whats the answer to my 2 questions Jeff. You will know.
Nel.
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By you know your onions Jeff.
I spoke to the caravan company were I bought my Batteries from, He told me to bring them in on Saturday fully charged. They wil then do a Discharge test. From that they will be able to determine if the battery is Faulty, If so they will replace them.
The test also should get rid of the lead sulphate if this is interfering with the chargeing process.
Whats the answer to my 2 questions Jeff. You will know.
Nel.
Nel
If lead sulphation has taken place then it can't be reveresed the damage has already been done. make sure you charge your batteries fully before taking it in for a discharge test. this test can be carried out while you wait, the test will also tell them if one single cell has been damaged,
Do you have a multi meter? if so charge your batteries to 14.4v
I Hope you told them you use a leisure battery charger if they find out you use a normal car battery charger they wont swop it free of charge.
Below I have added an extract like my last thread from a topic on batteries I wrote for another forum. it will tell you how to look after your batteries.
HOW CAN I AVOID OVER CHARGING A DEEP CYCLE LEISURE BATTERY?
Never leave your battery connected to a charger for more than the time required.
Over charging occurs when the battery remains on charge after it has reached full charge (14.40 volts). Like I have already mentioned overcharging causes excess heat that can cause the plates within the cells to buckle and shred their active material.
The battery will also react to the overcharge by producing excess hydrogen and oxygen as the water within the electrolyte breaks down. The water that is lost due to overcharging can be replaced in a non sealed battery. In a sealed battery the water loss is permanent and will negatively affect the battery service life.
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You mention a car battery charger. They are the only ones you can buy from somewere like Halfords or a Motor accessories outlet.
I asked at the caravan shop if they sold a lesiure battery charger. They said NO.
My battery charger says on it that its ok for lesiure batteries
Nel.
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Heres a couple of photos Jeff.
The first is my current battery charger from Argos which they are still selling. The second is one I bought today still in its box but I do not know from what you have said if its suitable. Can you tell me what charger you would buy and from where and how much you would spend on one?
Regards and thanks for the help.
Nel.
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I have 2, 85 amp lesiure batteries and they last 1.5 - 2 days with 2 pumps going then we swap over batteries.
I don't use a varistream or bypass so when i turn the flow off on the pole it shuts the pump off.
If you have a bypass the batteries are not going to last to long
as the pumps going all the time.
I have a split charge relay but its not fixed in yet so hopefully when thats done i will never have to charge the batteries again
Paul
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I don't use a varistream or bypass so when i turn the flow off on the pole it shuts the pump off.
Same here Paul.
Nel.
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Nel
The correct voltage for a leisure battery is 14.40, if your charger switches off when this voltage is reached then fine but then it must keep switching on and off to keep the battery topped up and this I doubt it will do correctly.
The best charger to buy is the Intelligent charger this is a little bit more in cost but will keep your battery in tip top condition, this type of charger charges to within a couple of volts of the required charge then it switches its self to trickle charge for the remainder of the charge, once full charge is reached it then turns its self off and monitors your battery condition if the voltage was to drop even the slightest then it turns its self back on. the intelligent charger can be left connected to your battery all over say the weekend with no worries. This can't be said for a car battery charger, you would have to check the voltage with a multi-meter and once it reached 14.40v you would have to switch off manually and keep checking it for voltage drop.
Nel all the above information is for keeping your batteries in tip top condition many of the guy's on here are happy to charge there batteries with car charges and seem to get no trouble but I can assure you it does shorten the life of the battery. If you email me I have a link you can have on how to build your own split charge relay or you can buy one from maplins and are cheap again my link will show you how to install them.
Can you let us know how your battery tests went?
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Will do Jeff.
I dont think a split charge relay would be any benefit to me, I do not drive that many miles for it to be benefical. We have done 6 hrs work today, I have done less then 4 miles from jumping in my van this morining and jumping back out on my drive when I have finnished.
I have used all three 85amp batteries today. First lasted 2 1/2 hrs, Second battery 2hrs. Last one 1 1/2hrs but that had a little bit left. Good job I was useing my backpack as well.
I am going to ring round my local caravan dealers this afternoon and see if anyone sells a good charger.
What did you think of the photo of my charger Jeff. Also can anyone tell me If a charger tht only recommends up to a 70amp battery should be charged is any good.
Nel.
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12 Volt 2, 4 or 8 Amp user selectable
(Model # 12248)
BatteryMINDer® Model 12248
12-Volt 2, 4, or 8 Amp Charger-Maintainer-Desulphator-Conditioner
Model 12248 is a 3-stage Constant Current - Constant voltage - Float mode charger –maintainer-desulphator (conditioner) that extends both the performance and life of all type / size / brands of 12-Volt batteries. These include all maintenance-free, marine-RV deep cycle, Gel, AGM “dry” types, as well as “spiral wound” constructed sealed types such as Optima, Odyssey, Exide, Interstate brands, Concord. Push-button selector for AGM, Gel and Flooded (filler caps) types ensures 100% compliance with all leading battery manufacturer’s specifications.
The BatteryMINDer® automatically dissolves power-robbing sulphation crystals using safe, low voltage, high frequency U.S. Patented pulse technology.
We guarantee to significantly increase both your battery’s life and performance or we will refund 100% of your money within one (1) full year. This is in addition to our five (5) year “no hassle” warranty.
Features: Features An important question Patented Features Who is VDC?
This must be the best lesiure battery charger on the market.
Nel.
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how much is it and where do you get them from??
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It costs $159 in America and Canada.
I have been researching Battery chargers for the last 2 hrs. My knoweldge of whats required is a lot better, and my understanding of how it all works from battery chargers useing algorithms. to the point that gasing takes place, from voltage values of 14.4V to 13.8V.Urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
By gum I need a Drink.
Nel.
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hahaha, mate you should try doing an honours degree in Chemical Engineering (my first deg), I can well and truly sympathise!!
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Will do Jeff.
I dont think a split charge relay would be any benefit to me, I do not drive that many miles for it to be benefical. We have done 6 hrs work today, I have done less then 4 miles from jumping in my van this morining and jumping back out on my drive when I have finnished.
I have used all three 85amp batteries today. First lasted 2 1/2 hrs, Second battery 2hrs. Last one 1 1/2hrs but that had a little bit left. Good job I was useing my backpack as well.
I am going to ring round my local caravan dealers this afternoon and see if anyone sells a good charger.
What did you think of the photo of my charger Jeff. Also can anyone tell me If a charger tht only recommends up to a 70amp battery should be charged is any good.
Nel.
Nel
Like I said in my last post if you must use a car battery charger then use it but I don't recommend them.
The pulse charger mentioned below is the same principle as the british intelligent charger that I mentioned eirlier, and cost aroud £70 a bit steep I know.
Your charger out put of 70 amps is high a 4/5 amp charger is good, the high ampere current out put is ideal if you want to boost charge your batteries and I wouldn't recommend that even for car batteries boost charging ruins batteries. invest in a cheap multi-meter if you must use a car battery and when it reaches 14.40v then switch it off. If you have the means then invest in the intelligent charger.
I think you have a problem with your batteries if its not them then there is a fault some were in your set-up a simple check to do is when your system is running feel all the wires and pump and any electrical switches you may have they should be cool to the touch and your pump should be warmish if these are as described then the fault lies in the batteries, and if this is the case I would put it down to the way you are charging them for three batteries to only last a couple of hours each.
if you can get the caravan suppliers to exchange them then invest in a smaller charger, or better still the charger i suggested.
Don't forget to tell the supplier you used a leisure battery charger to charge them, or he'll have you by the short and curly's and probably won't exchange them for you. its no skin off his nose, as the batteries have a Guarantee and will go back to the manufacturers. hope this helps
Jeff
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Jeff.
I have had the discharge test done on the batteries.
Heres how I got on.
I dropped the batteries off and went to see my Mum, so I was not there when they tested them..They put the batteries on their Charger to see if the batteries were fully charged. Yep no problems their, the batteries were fully charged up,( Which amazed me, both had nearly run out of juice the day before, the water was coming out so slowly. One battery took 8 hrs to fully charge at 2.4 amps an hour and the other one I left over night, so that was chargeing for 10hrs.
They passed the discharge test, No bad cells, No bubbling. He said the test cant garauntee that the battery is not faulty. But in all honesty I cannot send them back to the manufacter Because from the test we have done they seam to be all right.
So from my point of view I am left baffeld. If I took the batteries home I know they will not last. I did not want to buy some more batteries just for the sake of it.
So being a stubbon Bu **er I was not prepared to accept this result. After half an hour he agreed I could exchange the Batterries. I paid another£40 and upgraded the batteries from 85amp to 110 amps. All in all a fair result.
I am now left with the perplexing problem of why the batteries had such a short life?
I have been to another Caravan shop and I am going to buy a Leisure Charger from them. Thet had 7 diffrent models but have narrowed the choice down to two.
1. A 4amp smartcharger4 that is a three step charger for £42.50.
2. CTEK MULTI XS 7000 charger at £99.99. This as a 14.4 volt, 14.7 volt, 13.6 volt. and a 16volt charge that can be used on a stratifed battery. 7amp.
Dont know which to get, Which would you buy?
The chap I spoke to who did the test who has had 30 yrs experince with batteries said it does a lesiure battery good to have a full discharge every now and then. He will have the battery running a light bulb untill its fully discharged. Is that true.
Many thanks for your helpfull advice.
Nel.
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Thanks for getting back to me with the results, Pleased to hear you stood your ground and demanded an exchange, how many batteries are we talking about?
You say he is going to leave a bulb conneceted? If he did a proper test he wouldn't need to do this. The only time I do a light bulb discharge, is after a full charge, and I need to take a multi-meter reading straight away, If you try to take a reading with a meter straight after a charge you will get a false reading, so the light bulb discharge is left on for a couple of minutes to stablise the battery and then you are able to take a meter reading, If he leaves a bulb connected until it completly goes out then he will have to time it and be there for it when it goes out, so he can work it out from the bulbs current consuption multiplied by the time taken for its discharge.
Like I said to you before its no skin off there nose to give you an exchange, I was also pleased to see you went for the upgrade.
Regarding your two choices of the new chargers you have narrowed them down very well indeed.
1. A 4amp smartcharger4 that is a three step charger for £42.50.
2. CTEK MULTI XS 7000 charger at £99.99. This as a 14.4 volt, 14.7 volt, 13.6 volt. and a 16volt charge that can be used on a stratifed battery. 7amp.
I would be interested to know what the three stages were on the £42.50 smartcharger. The CTEK 7000 is also a good choice as it gives you the 14.40v (14.4v) that is the correct voltage for a leisure battery. anyone of the above chargers is fine depending on the three stage out-put on the smartcharger, I do know CTEK are very good but only if you can afford there prices?
Now you have to do the tests that I suggested to you, for 2/3 batteries to go like this suggests to me there is a fault, like I said with 1. Your Charging methods. or 2. with your set-up.
Check to see if anything is getting hot in use, ie cable's/switches or pump anything getting hot can indicate a fault.
Hope the above helps
Kind Regards
Jeff
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Hi Jeff,
Made my choice on the chargers, I decided in the end to buy both of them, The Caravan shop let me have the 4amp smart charger for £40.00.
I ordered the CTEK 7000 of the internet for £80.00 which was £20 cheaper then the shop, The ctek was my prefferd choice but I needed to start chargeing my batteries today hence the reson for buying the smartcharger.
It has been charging my new 110 amp battery for the last 6 hrs, Its three stage process is BULK, ABSORPTION, FLOAT. the bulk fast charges up to 80% of required charge, ABSORPTION takes the battery to 100%, And float sends a pulse charge to keep it fully charged.
I went to see one of my freinds last night who is into electronics. He said to take my van to an auto electrician, let them hook up an amp meter while I have both pumps running to see how many amps both pumps are useing. He thinks due to me useing 2 100 mtr M/Bore hoses the pumps are working harder then they would if I had 2x 50mtr 1/2" hose. So my amps could be as high as 20 amps an hour.
He also suggested linking both batteries together so I have a bank of 220 amps for the pumps to draw power from. I have read and he agreed the higher the amp useage the quicker the batteries drain. IE ;- If you were to use 5 amps per hour your 100amp battery should last 20 hrs. But if you were to use 50 amps an hour the battery would propably only last an hour due to it draining more of the battereies power, instead of 2 hrs that you would expect.
Thanks very much for the good advice and I wish you all the best.
Nel.
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he is correct that if you rapid drain a battery it will not provide the specified amps - however 10 amps from both pumps seems very high and I'm pretty sure the pump motor would overheat which in turn would increase battery consumption in thelong run damaging not only the battery but also the pumps.
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A leisure battery will not last as long if you charge it before it is 50% discharged. You can ruin a battery by charging it too frequently. IDEALLY YOUR BATTERY SHOULD BE RECHARGED WHEN YOU HAVE A READING OF 12.6 VOLTS ON YOUR MULTI METER. Dai