Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: windolene on August 04, 2006, 09:06:05 am
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Hi,
Surely the photograph of the window cleaner in the ionics advert in the Latest issue of Cleaning & Maintenance is manufactured by ionics?
It shows a window cleaner up a ladder on a narrow pavement forcing pedestrians to walk on the road to get past. Not only that, for he has an open ended ladder with the rung resting against the corner of the wall!.
Kevin WINDOLENE.
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I agree with you Kevin
It does look a bit contrived.
Even though I use trad and WFP
I dont like this kind of advert.
Telboy
Angel C/S
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Hi Kevin,
Can you post the picture for people to look at??
Many thanks,
Trevor
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Here it is Trev
Roy
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Thanks for that Roy,
So, lets take a look at this:
The ladder is at an angle instead of flat against the wall next to it where the operative would be able to comfortably reach the whole window frame?
The operative has managed to squash himself into a tight angle instead of allowing himself plenty of space by putting the ladder to the side of the window.
He is wearing company issued clothing with a professional window cleaners belt, appears to be experienced yet he is carrying out this task all the wrong way and at the same time happens to be thinking about loopholes??
The other guy however, is carrying out what looks like to be a safe and well presented example of WFP work whilst thinking about his customers safety despite what looks like blocking the road off with his vehicle. Hope they don't have a fire drill and he stops the Fire Services getting to the building.
My conclusion?
FAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best wishes,
Trev
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I regularly put my ladder in the corner of the window.
Nothing wrong with that, it can't go anywhere and it often feels more solid.
It's just trying to put it down to sell wfp.
If I owned a ladder company I would use a picture of a wfp user with hoses spread all over the pavement, leaving water or ice everywhere and poking a small child in the eye with the handle of his pole. :'(
All this, while blocking a narrow street with his van and blocking an ambulance from attending a granny who's just tripped on a hose and cracked her swede.
Double standards or what?
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I regularly put my ladder in the corner of the window.
Nothing wrong with that, it can't go anywhere and it often feels more solid.
Totally agree squeaky, I have and still do myself.
My only point is on this particular photo I think it would have been far easier flat against the wall next to the window. Easy to reach, not cramped and more believable.
Trev
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Hmm, know what you mean Trev, but my personal preference is to not reach over sideways.
I find that when faced with a tall window using the corner avoids reaching.
Still, like we said personal preference....
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I regularly put my ladder in the corner of the window.
Nothing wrong with that, it can't go anywhere and it often feels more solid.
Totally agree squeaky, I have and still do myself.
My only point is on this particular photo I think it would have been far easier flat against the wall next to the window. Easy to reach, not cramped and more believable.
Trev
Having it flat against the wall may have caused his ladder to be in the road though.
The best bit about these ads is how the photographer can actually read peoples' minds though.
"USE WFP AND BECOME PSYCHIC" Nah. It doesn't sound right does it?
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YES I remember this photo of this bloke working, a ladder should have 4 points of contact, and he is putting the public at danger.
It was posted last September on anotherforum and he is an employee of the Feds health & safety officer
Andy
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In reality the guy up the ladder is really thinking "bloody hell, she's fit in there"!!!!!
The guy with the pole is really thinking "bet there is some top totty up there, wish I had a camera on this pole"!!!
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are you guys blind? its 2 pics side by side - not the same street! look a bit closer and you'll see that the van isn't blocking a street but what appears to be a pedestrian area.
FAKE - definitely, another reason why I don't like Ionics all that much - they really do talk the biggest lot of s**t.
Although I'm all for wfp, I still believe ladders are relatively safe and I really don't like this kind of attempt to batter the image of ladders which have been safely used by thousands if not millions of wcs all over the world for longer than anyone here has been around, ladders are like a car - use them safely and in 99.9% of cases you'll be safe, misuse them and you're asking for trouble. Typical Ionics trying to put ladder users down as 'unprofessional', winds me up - squeeky I'm right behind you on this one.
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Mr JM123 has just gone up in my estimatation. ;)
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Its NOT FAKE read here... (Window Cleaning - Bad Practice) http://www.nfmwgc.com/bbc_newsnight.htm
Andy
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sometimes it seems that wfp users(and companys that make the equipment)are totally against,and at times patronise traditional window cleaning.This gets my back up.Surely window cleaners are window cleaners.I reckon the divide will get stronger and stronger,especially with pictures like that.I window clean using traditional methods,and i am professional in the use of my ladders.pictures like that just drag trad further in the gutter.
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It's a big marketing scam which makes lots of money.
They'll do all they can to get people to spend daft money.
This is why I won't let myself be taken in by it.
Once wfp gets banned for public safety, there will something else that costs a fortune and then they'll be slagging of wfp no end because it suits them.... ::)
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well I'm only speaking the truth - I started out using ladders, I don't do any upstairs work with ladders now but thats not because I reckon ladders are unsafe - of course it is safer working from the ground, I mainly use wfp because I make a lot more money with it.
This ladder bashing has to stop - no one was bashing ladders before wfp came along even though plenty of wcs have been using extension poles for ages.
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You know
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well I'm only speaking the truth - I started out using ladders, I don't do any upstairs work with ladders now but thats not because I reckon ladders are unsafe - of course it is safer working from the ground, I mainly use wfp because I make a lot more money with it.
This ladder bashing has to stop - no one was bashing ladders before wfp came along even though plenty of wcs have been using extension poles for ages.
I've come to prefer WFP as I've got used to it and I feel that it is safer than ladders. However, if used properly, ladders are fine by me. I use a ladder on certain jobs but more sparingly than I used to.
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I would agree with squeaks first reply, I don't see anything wrong with putting the ladder into the corner of the window like that, providing you still have four, even points of contact it is a very safe way of securing the ladder, and it's highly unlikely to slip sideways, plus you are not stood on the top rung, balancing on your tip-toes! :o
But I don't blame Ionics for the nature of their ad, if you are going to compare ladders to poles and use photo's to do so, then of course you are going to slant things in your favour.
And as squeaks said in a further reply, were you a ladder manufacturer you would do the reverse and highlight perceived problems with poles and hoses.
But ladders, even used safely are inherently dangerous, it only takes one tiny mistake....
But I also don't think it is right that we should be stopped from using them...they'll stop us from climbing trees or playing conkers next...they might even try to stop kids running in the play ground in case they fall over and hurt themselves!!
I can see the day when they will even try to make children wear long sleeves and trousers in the summer in case they get sunburned....oh...hang on...it is all happening already isn't it...long live the nanny state :-\
Ian
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are you guys blind? its 2 pics side by side - not the same street!
Thats the funniest thing I have read on here in ages.
Like any of us think its 1 picture, didn't the big tear down the middle suggest it may have been two pictures or did you think it was a white building with funny brickwork??
Cheers, You've made my day.
Trev
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yes as usual this is rubbish.ohh the big debate .
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are you guys blind? its 2 pics side by side - not the same street!
Thats the funniest thing I have read on here in ages.
Like any of us think its 1 picture, didn't the big tear down the middle suggest it may have been two pictures or did you think it was a white building with funny brickwork??
Cheers, You've made my day.
Trev
i dont think he meant it like that lol
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Just an observation but the ladder looks like a typical window cleaners pointed ladder so the maximum contact point would be 3 points,
these ladders were designed to fit to the edges of frames and or builingds to make them safer.
ive run a window cleaning company for 11 years and all of our ladders were pointed and much safer than the standard type.
as for the advert well it is only there to sell machines
standing on the ground whilst cleaning windows and facades upto 60ft high is safer than climbing a ladder.
you will also work quicker in turn earn more money whilst staying safe as you work.
certain types of ads are there to get people talking and this one certainly is
rgds,
stuart
www.skypolesystems.com (http://www.skypolesystems.com)
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are you guys blind? its 2 pics side by side - not the same street!
Thats the funniest thing I have read on here in ages.
Like any of us think its 1 picture, didn't the big tear down the middle suggest it may have been two pictures or did you think it was a white building with funny brickwork??
Cheers, You've made my day.
Trev
i dont think he meant it like that lol
actually,after reading the thread again,i think he did.lol
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stuart skypole do you mean you had a pointer that was same hieght as ladder in pick, if so what a tool!!! i regularly do same type of job often with 3 contact points but i use 11, 14 &16ft doubles & yes i am getting wfp but only for certain work
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Just to add, the window cleaner in the photo was not using a pointer, as I have seen close up photos when they 1st come out (Sep 05) and its a normal ladder which did not have 4 points on contact
Andy
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This whole debate is based on deceit on the part of the originator.
It makes me very angry when I see deliberate attempts to distort the reality of any situation regarding safety issues, for the dubious benefit of the author.
The photograph of the ladder is too indistinct to be able to see exactly what the situation is, and so can be manipulated to make it seem whatever the author wants it to be.
Regarding the safety of the ladder:
If an open ended ladder is set with the top of one stile set into the reveal of the window, and the other on the wall, and the top rung is NOT in contact with the corner of the brickwork, or the stile touching the window sill, this is the SAFEST way it can be set.
The tops of both stiles are firmly in contact with the building, and the ladder CANNOT move sideways, unlike one set square against the wall where the ladder could (in extreme circumstances) slide sideways. (This is exactly as recommended by the H&S for using pointed ladders.)
PROVIDED THAT both feet are in firm contact with the ground, and the ladder is not at too shallow an angle to avoid contact with the sill, then this is the SAFEST way to approach ANY window with a reveal deep enough to accept the ladder stile. The only advantage a pointer ladder would have over the open ender is the splayed foot giving greater protection against twisting.
Although I would only ever use a pointer ladder, I feel it is deeply insulting to careful, experienced tradesmen when unscrupulous people deliberatley misrepresent important safety issues for their own selfish purposes.
Cheers
Ian
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Hmm, know what you mean Trev, but my personal preference is to not reach over sideways.
I find that when faced with a tall window using the corner avoids reaching.
Still, like we said personal preference....
I've done it that way too at times Rog.
Another method I've used with very tall windows is a stand-off to hold me away from the wall. That may not be the best way for the situation in the picture as the base of the ladder would be in the road.
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Is this the photo of andrew lee's lad :o :o :o, someone please enlighten me?????????
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the type of window done by the traditional window cleaner was done for years by limpet bars attached to the ladders and adjustable safety feet attachment to allow for any slopes and this was the method recommended by h and s for years
how the future changes
jinky
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This whole debate is based on deceit on the part of the originator.
It makes me very angry when I see deliberate attempts to distort the reality of any situation regarding safety issues, for the dubious benefit of the author.
The photograph of the ladder is too indistinct to be able to see exactly what the situation is, and so can be manipulated to make it seem whatever the author wants it to be.
Regarding the safety of the ladder:
If an open ended ladder is set with the top of one stile set into the reveal of the window, and the other on the wall, and the top rung is NOT in contact with the corner of the brickwork, or the stile touching the window sill, this is the SAFEST way it can be set.
The tops of both stiles are firmly in contact with the building, and the ladder CANNOT move sideways, unlike one set square against the wall where the ladder could (in extreme circumstances) slide sideways. (This is exactly as recommended by the H&S for using pointed ladders.)
PROVIDED THAT both feet are in firm contact with the ground, and the ladder is not at too shallow an angle to avoid contact with the sill, then this is the SAFEST way to approach ANY window with a reveal deep enough to accept the ladder stile. The only advantage a pointer ladder would have over the open ender is the splayed foot giving greater protection against twisting.
Although I would only ever use a pointer ladder, I feel it is deeply insulting to careful, experienced tradesmen when unscrupulous people deliberatley misrepresent important safety issues for their own selfish purposes.
Cheers
Ian
It would have been a much fairer advert if both methods of window cleaning were shown on the same window. Ionics could still have made a good case for WFP by showing both methods used on the right hand picture but not by showing both methods on the left picture.