Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Soupy on July 16, 2024, 02:02:08 pm
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One of my lads was kind enough to crash test one of our vans today.
46mph into a parked Ssangyong Musso. Airbag deployed, van written off - pulled 5.02G according to the tracker.
Tank didn't budge.
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Is that a tank you fitted yourself ?
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Is that a tank you fitted yourself ?
Yes. It was at 9:48am so pretty much full. 650l tank.
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That's the reason I went for a Grippatank system which is crash tested. I wonder if the Musso is also written off with all the weight hitting it?
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Great result (NOT the Crash) but your securing of the tank is as good as grippa
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That's the reason I went for a Grippatank system which is crash tested. I wonder if the Musso is also written off with all the weight hitting it?
Certainly didn't look to be. Hit the towbar.
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Is that a tank you fitted yourself ?
Yes. It was at 9:48am so pretty much full. 650l tank.
Tell us how you fitted it please?
In my prang about this time last year I reckon I hit the side of a car straight on as he crossed my path. I reckon about 20mph at point of impact. My tank (self fitted - 650L full - first thing in the morning) didn't budge either.
No airbags went off but one headlight, bonnet and radiators (a/c and engine coolant) were bent and punctured.
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Apologies for the delay in replying to this thread. It's been complicated and I didn't want to discuss it online until the matter was concluded with the insurance company.
I've always argued that tanks in a van are not a modification. Due to some complications with how the insurance on this particular van was set up - I was unable/unwilling to argue with the insurance company when they said the van was modified.
As a result, the insurance company did not pay me properly for a 8 month old 7k mile van which they wrote off (I could have fixed it for around £3-4k) I got most of the money but the loss of control meant I lost a few grand on this one.
The tank was secured with 2in steel angle bolted to the vans fixing points and with a spreader plate under the floor.
My advice to all of you is to use an insurance broker for all of your insurance needs, a local one, one that you can meet face to face and that can understand your business and have eyes on what you have and how you use it. Someone that when the brown stuff hits the fan, you can contact directly to discuss the best way forward.
Not some god awful internet form and call centre that takes hours to get through to and one wrong click can cost you thousands.
Don't get me wrong, if I'd have been in a position to argue, I'm confident that I would have won. Unfortunately the position I found myself in, I may have lost the lot so I kept my mouth shut (on the advice of my broker - who did not arrange this particular insurance).
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That’s always been my worry which is why i use Alexander Swan & tell them everything.
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Can see both sides of the argument on the modification side tbh, on the one side, how could you think bolting something to the floor with a spreader plate that will impact the overall performance of the vehicle as not a modification, on the other side, you could be driving about with a piano in the back all the time which would also have the same effect, but ones a modification and ones not, it shouldn’t matter what’s the back, aslong as its within the payload and not enhancing the vehicle in anyway, then it shouldn’t be an issue.
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Can see both sides of the argument on the modification side tbh, on the one side, how could you think bolting something to the floor with a spreader plate that will impact the overall performance of the vehicle as not a modification, on the other side, you could be driving about with a piano in the back all the time which would also have the same effect, but ones a modification and ones not, it shouldn’t matter what’s the back, aslong as its within the payload and not enhancing the vehicle in anyway, then it shouldn’t be an issue.
It's a van, doing van things. Vanning. Going about it's vanny existence.
Before the vehicle was taken away everything was removed. It took around 5 minutes. Similar to any other trade.
It's not a modification.
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Can see both sides of the argument on the modification side tbh, on the one side, how could you think bolting something to the floor with a spreader plate that will impact the overall performance of the vehicle as not a modification, on the other side, you could be driving about with a piano in the back all the time which would also have the same effect, but ones a modification and ones not, it shouldn’t matter what’s the back, aslong as its within the payload and not enhancing the vehicle in anyway, then it shouldn’t be an issue.
It's a van, doing van things. Vanning. Going about it's vanny existence.
Before the vehicle was taken away everything was removed. It took around 5 minutes. Similar to any other trade.
It's not a modification.
How did they know it had one in it then?.
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Can see both sides of the argument on the modification side tbh, on the one side, how could you think bolting something to the floor with a spreader plate that will impact the overall performance of the vehicle as not a modification, on the other side, you could be driving about with a piano in the back all the time which would also have the same effect, but ones a modification and ones not, it shouldn’t matter what’s the back, aslong as its within the payload and not enhancing the vehicle in anyway, then it shouldn’t be an issue.
It's a van, doing van things. Vanning. Going about it's vanny existence.
Before the vehicle was taken away everything was removed. It took around 5 minutes. Similar to any other trade.
It's not a modification.
How did they know it had one in it then?.
The driver told them it was there.
He's an honest lad, I'll give him that.
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(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1724754568_Screenshot_2024-08-27-11-29-16-78_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg)
The vehicle is no more changed due to the carrying of a tank than it is to the fitting of mats on the footwells, raptor/protectacote to the floor, pole rack on the roof, shelves or a roof rack.
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That’s always been my worry which is why i use Alexander Swan & tell them everything.
Have you met Alexander? Have you run a claim through with him? Do you have someone you deal with directly?
My broker is called Al. We clean his windows.
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I’ve had 2 claims with Alexander Swan Soupy. One was not my fault, the other was my employee’s fault. No problem either time.
I agree totally with your argument Soupy. I’ve said that before on this forum. But they make the rules, rightly or wrongly & I don’t want them not paying out & all the grief that goes with it. That’s why I play it safe & tell them everything.
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While I totally agree with your position soupy your posts read like you removed the tank to avoid the insurance company seeing in the van I hope I read that wrong
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Unfortunately, you modified your van. It's that simple!
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While I totally agree with your position soupy your posts read like you removed the tank to avoid the insurance company seeing in the van I hope I read that wrong
Absolutely not. They were informed that the tank was there prior to my removal of it.
The tank was removed so I could refit it to another van. The issue that I had (the reason I couldn't argue) was that, while I owned the vehicle I was not the registered keeper nor was I the insured party.
Edit - Now I think back, I was instructed by the insurance company to remove everything prior to them retrieving it.
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Unfortunately, you modified your van. It's that simple!
No I didn't.
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I’ve had 2 claims with Alexander Swan Soupy. One was not my fault, the other was my employee’s fault. No problem either time.
I agree totally with your argument Soupy. I’ve said that before on this forum. But they make the rules, rightly or wrongly & I don’t want them not paying out & all the grief that goes with it. That’s why I play it safe & tell them everything.
Glad to hear that.
I'm not for lying to insurance companies. Like I said my broker has seen what we do even from the landy days. Face to face is the way to do it IMO. Call centres are not there to help you, they are there to get as much money from you as possible and to avoid paying out where they can.
A van is built to carry stuff, that's all we're doing. The way insurance is set up nowadays is a scam, specifically designed to catch you out and over charge you.
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Alexander Swan is a relatively small company with a handful of staff i think. They are brokers & I have often spoken to the same people in the office. Never had a problem.
There’s just very little choice for us window cleaners still because insurance companies do class it as a modification unfortunately & we end up getting stung. It’s wrong I agree, but it’s the way it is. Hopefully it will change in the future but I won’t hold my breath.
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Alexander Swan is a relatively small company with a handful of staff i think. They are brokers & I have often spoken to the same people in the office. Never had a problem.
There’s just very little choice for us window cleaners still because insurance companies do class it as a modification unfortunately & we end up getting stung. It’s wrong I agree, but it’s the way it is. Hopefully it will change in the future but I won’t hold my breath.
To be honest the additional cost for declaring a modification is usually minimal so the point is moot. The insurance company paid 95% of the claim, less the excess. The offer was less than the van was worth, even at 100%
I wouldn't have accepted the offer nor the 5% deficit. I wasn't in a position to argue though.
Unfortunately Alexander swan looks to be located in Swindon. Too far away for me.
I like to be looked in the eye while I'm being shafted.
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Employees love to drop you in it.
I was driving a modified vehicle ::)roll
cheers mate ;D
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Employees love to drop you in it.
I was driving a modified vehicle ::)roll
cheers mate ;D
Not exactly what happened but still funny.
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So are ply lining and racking a mod for plummers and the like
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So are ply lining and racking a mod in for plummers and the like
Roof rack?
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While I totally agree with your position soupy your posts read like you removed the tank to avoid the insurance company seeing in the van I hope I read that wrong
What would be the problem if he did?. It’s just a tool at the end of the day, other tradesmen remove the tools they use for there jobs in situations like this with no questions asked.
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Unfortunately, you modified your van. It's that simple!
No I didn't.
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"The tank was secured with 2in steel angle bolted to the vans fixing points and with a spreader plate under the floor"
Yes you did.
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Unfortunately, you modified your van. It's that simple!
No I didn't.
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"The tank was secured with 2in steel angle bolted to the vans fixing points and with a spreader plate under the floor"
Yes you did.
No I didn't.
The tank and frame were removed leaving no trace.
Nothing was modified / changed / interfickered / altered / etc and so on.
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While I totally agree with your position soupy your posts read like you removed the tank to avoid the insurance company seeing in the van I hope I read that wrong
What would be the problem if he did?. It’s just a tool at the end of the day, other tradesmen remove the tools they use for there jobs in situations like this with no questions asked.
Lets be clear here - I don't regard a tank as a mod - bolted in or not - in fact insurance companies should be grateful that a tank is secured properly.
The issue is THEY class it as a mod - if you change your van/car after an accident to alter it ( ie replace bald tyres ) you run a risk of insurance fraud and not getting future insurance
Soupy said he had permission, and been paid out - so alls well
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While I totally agree with your position soupy your posts read like you removed the tank to avoid the insurance company seeing in the van I hope I read that wrong
What would be the problem if he did?. It’s just a tool at the end of the day, other tradesmen remove the tools they use for there jobs in situations like this with no questions asked.
Lets be clear here - I don't regard a tank as a mod - bolted in or not - in fact insurance companies should be grateful that a tank is secured properly.
The issue is THEY class it as a mod - if you change your van/car after an accident to alter it ( ie replace bald tyres ) you run a risk of insurance fraud and not getting future insurance
Soupy said he had permission, and been paid out - so alls well
I crashed and wrote of a van before, took the tank out before it was collected and they didn't ask what was in the back when I was driving.
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I spotted this in the paper a few weeks ago.
"If the dash cam has been wired in, then it's classed as a car modification and needs to be declared to your insurer. This is because some elements of the car have been changed, and your insurer needs to know if your car has been altered in any way.
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I spotted this in the paper a few weeks ago.
"If the dash cam has been wired in, then it's classed as a car modification and needs to be declared to your insurer. This is because some elements of the car have been changed, and your insurer needs to know if your car has been altered in any way.
Haha FFS I've got trackers and dash cams wired in to all my vans. ::)roll
Not a modification.
Something should be done about these grifters.
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I know I have a hardwired tracker.
But they do say it could void your insurance, absolutely crazy.
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That’s always been my worry which is why i use Alexander Swan & tell them everything.
Have you met Alexander? Have you run a claim through with him? Do you have someone you deal with directly?
My broker is called Al. We clean his windows.
I have met the owner of Alexander swan and it’s a woman called Sarah , never had any issues with any of our vehicles which have declared modifications ie tank , pole racks boilers etc
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So are ply lining and racking a mod for plummers and the like
Ply lining? That's a very good question.
It's fitted after manufacture, so it should be a modification. It reminded me of the fitter who fitted ply lining kits to 900 Berlingo vans ordered for a major fleet order back in 2001/2 and supplied out of a Citroen dealership in Sheffield. The fitter used the wrong length of screws and puncturered 900 fuel tanks. That was definitely a modification of 900 fuel tanks. ;D
Racking is a modification, as is a roof rack and tow-bar. Insurance company (Aviva) specifically asked me that and advised they were modifications.
My water tank is also a modification. I was asked if it was professionally fitted. I said I fitted it myself and was professionally fitted. That was good enough for the lady asking the questions, but I would expect it to be queried if I made a claim.
Interestingly, I fitted the tow bar and roof rack myself as well, but they never asked if those were professionally fitted. I've put that thought in my 'ammo-box' if I ever need it in the future.
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Ply lining, roof bars etc are classed as modifications. A different stereo is a modification also, as is additional lights etc. Anything you add to a vehicle, other than what it left the factory with, is classed as a modification. So, fitting bolts, angle iron and spreader plates to your van is without doubt a modification.
These are the facts, argue about it amongst yourselves!🤣🤣
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Ply lining, roof bars etc are classed as modifications. A different stereo is a modification also, as is additional lights etc. Anything you add to a vehicle, other than what it left the factory with, is classed as a modification. So, fitting bolts, angle iron and spreader plates to your van is without doubt a modification.
These are the facts, argue about it amongst yourselves!🤣🤣
Totally agree with this but some will argue till they are blue in the face. Ones saying they don’t view xyz as modifications is ridiculous it’s the insurance company that sets the rules NOT the vehicle owner , many modifications if declared don’t increase the premium anyway they just want to know about them .