Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: DJW on May 11, 2024, 05:01:27 pm
-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0kldzwylqwo.amp
-
Poor guy.
-
Terrible news, poor bloke. Every house I quote I inspect for overhead cables (RAM), force of habit, always aware of surroundings be it electric cables, trip hazards, got to be with a carbon pole.
-
Very sad
-
Terrible.
Bless him, life changing.
I think over head cables in gardens should always be insulated, makes no sense to me. A kid could lift up his dads tree loppers and be killed. Etc. I’ve got a 30ft high pole saw for the oak trees in our garden, imagine a kid messing around with it and then bam.
-
Scary stuff. Just shows even if you're careful and keeping your pole clear, the current can jump though air.
-
I was once up a ladder cleaning windows traditionally when a bolt of lightning struck the tree right behind me no less than four feet away. I left my ladder up at the bedroom window, slid down it with both hands (quickest exit off a ladder) and posted a note through the residents letterbox to explain I would be back the next day to collect my ladder :)
Nowadays I keep a one hundred percent Kevlar pole base handle purely for two customers who have overhead electrical cables in their garden attaching to their home, it's quite common in some places. I always check the difference between a telegraph pole or a high voltage box pole.
Safety is paramount, love adrenalin but also weigh up all risks in any extreme sport I participate in.
-
Would it make any difference having an insulated pole section as all my poles have this? ???
How do we know which cables are live or not?
This is very concerning...I'm absolutely gutted for the guy.surely there is a compensation claim in there?esp as the home owner didn't know about the live wires overhead? :P :'(
-
Would it make any difference having an insulated pole section as all my poles have this? ???
How do we know which cables are live or not?
This is very concerning...I'm absolutely gutted for the guy.surely there is a compensation claim in there?esp as the home owner didn't know about the live wires overhead? :P :'(
The wires are clear for everyone to see look at the pictures , it’s an unfortunate accident but we all need to be aware of our surroundings when using carbon poles near any power cables the arc jumping is far more likely to happen on damp misty days as this gives the current a path to the pole . Smoke is also another good conductor around cables to other objects . I feel sorry for the guy as a lapse in concentration has permanently changed his life , but the cables are high up and without the pole he would have been perfectly safe , this situation is something that we need to be looking out for on a daily basis , and doing a visual risk assessment on every job should prevent this type of incident . Also using hose pipes spraying water or pressure washing near theses things can also have the same results .
-
Sympathies go out to him. I quite often get snagged up on telephone wires, it's pure luck that they're not leccy wires. I need to get into better risk assessment habits.
-
Yes you do!
-
We were told in the Fire Service that electricity will travel down smoke to find an earth. Its when we have a grass fire in the country side.
-
Firstly I was gutted to read about this window cleaners horrific injuries. I know a lot on here pay a lot of attention to personal safety at work and won't use Ladders to climb gates or access windows above flat roofs etc. So on the topic of overhead power cables within potential touching distance of water fed poles where will you draw the line bearing in mind you don't even need to touch a power cable to get a fatal shock as electricity can jump from cables to window cleaner under certain situations. Would refusing to clean certain windows be the only sure way to protect yourself unless home owner is prepared to get the cables suitably sleeved and insulated? The photo is a common illustration of how close we work to overhead power cables.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1715695813_DSC_1566_copy_1512x2016.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1715697364_DSC_1567_copy_1512x2016.jpg)
-
That’s close, but how would you ever know what’s too close?
I’ve got one similar, but the cable is mere inches away from the window, so it’s heavily insulated for obvious reasons. Anyone could reach out the window and be dead without the insulation.
I had a gym I cleaned that backed onto a massive electricity pylon, I stopped doing it, was only a few meters away from the thing - no thanks!
-
Firstly I was gutted to read about this window cleaners horrific injuries. I know a lot on here pay a lot of attention to personal safety at work and won't use Ladders to climb gates or access windows above flat roofs etc. So on the topic of overhead power cables within potential touching distance of water fed poles where will you draw the line bearing in mind you don't even need to touch a power cable to get a fatal shock as electricity can jump from cables to window cleaner under certain situations. Would refusing to clean certain windows be the only sure way to protect yourself unless home owner is prepared to get the cables suitably sleeved and insulated? The photo is a common illustration of how close we work to overhead power cables.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1715695813_DSC_1566_copy_1512x2016.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1715697364_DSC_1567_copy_1512x2016.jpg)
I would be more concerned about the ability to clean the swept head of that window with that big 35cm brush, not to mention using medium bristles on the lead😜
-
Firstly I was gutted to read about this window cleaners horrific injuries. I know a lot on here pay a lot of attention to personal safety at work and won't use Ladders to climb gates or access windows above flat roofs etc. So on the topic of overhead power cables within potential touching distance of water fed poles where will you draw the line bearing in mind you don't even need to touch a power cable to get a fatal shock as electricity can jump from cables to window cleaner under certain situations. Would refusing to clean certain windows be the only sure way to protect yourself unless home owner is prepared to get the cables suitably sleeved and insulated? The photo is a common illustration of how close we work to overhead power cables.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1715695813_DSC_1566_copy_1512x2016.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1715697364_DSC_1567_copy_1512x2016.jpg)
I would be more concerned about the ability to clean the swept head of that window with that big 35cm brush, not to mention using medium bristles on the lead😜
Your right I'll have a word with my staff about that tomorrow before they start their shift.
-
Firstly I was gutted to read about this window cleaners horrific injuries. I know a lot on here pay a lot of attention to personal safety at work and won't use Ladders to climb gates or access windows above flat roofs etc. So on the topic of overhead power cables within potential touching distance of water fed poles where will you draw the line bearing in mind you don't even need to touch a power cable to get a fatal shock as electricity can jump from cables to window cleaner under certain situations. Would refusing to clean certain windows be the only sure way to protect yourself unless home owner is prepared to get the cables suitably sleeved and insulated? The photo is a common illustration of how close we work to overhead power cables.
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1715695813_DSC_1566_copy_1512x2016.jpg)
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1715697364_DSC_1567_copy_1512x2016.jpg)
I would be more concerned about the ability to clean the swept head of that window with that big 35cm brush, not to mention using medium bristles on the lead😜
Your right I'll have a word with my staff about that tomorrow before they start their shift.
That's the reason I use a swivel neck.
-
^^^^^^^^^^
Me too, but even with a swivel it would be difficult to do the swept head with that brush.
-
^^^^^^^^^^
Me too, but even with a swivel it would be difficult to do the swept head with that brush.
The photo was to demonstrate how close and often we work to overhead power cables, don't pay too much attention to the brush ;D
-
Hi Simon W
Please can i have your permission to copy the pictures you have put on here to use for a Tool box talk on working near electicity
Bryan Dolby
-
Hi Simon W
Please can i have your permission to copy the pictures you have put on here to use for a Tool box talk on working near electicity
Bryan Dolby
Sorry Brian I'm going to have to say no I'm afraid. Hope you understand.
-
Hi Simon W
OK thanks
Bryan
-
Hi Simon W
OK thanks
Bryan
Here are a couple taken from Google Earth where we work.
The first is power lines at the house. We have to be careful cleaning the upper windows on each side of that power line. If you look carefully, we can see power lines to the side of the house on the right. Those power lines pass in front of that side window that's open fractionally. That's a no no window for wfp (or any other method) to clean. Why they put power cables in front of that window is anyone's guess. It's unbelievable.
The second of the street shows the power lines down the street to the right. Power cables then divide for house supplies.
The pole to the very right with steps at the top are telephone power lines, They are not dangerous, but obviously we don't want to damage them.
-
For those GFS cleaning on properties where an over head power cable goes into a house via hole in fascia and into loft, this could be potential danger too where brush and carbon pole touches fascia close to power cable. Same applies with Carbon or Ali gutter poles
-
For those GFS cleaning on properties where an over head power cable goes into a house via hole in fascia and into loft, this could be potential danger too where brush and carbon pole touches fascia close to power cable. Same applies with Carbon or Ali gutter poles
Exactly. And don't spray water anywhere near those connectors or cables.
-
Hi Spruce
Please can i have your permission to use these pictures for a tool box talk
Regards
Bryan Dolby
-
Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?
My first thoughts are.........
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1729100443_Screenshot at 2024-10-16 18-40-26.png)
That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?
-
I wouldn't go near live cables because electricity can jump across to anything that goes to earth. This means if you are close with a carbon pole it can arc on to your pole even if you don't touch the cable. It can also travel down smoke and if you are at the bottom putting a fire out then you can get zapped.
-
I wouldn't go near live cables because electricity can jump across to anything that goes to earth. This means if you are close with a carbon pole it can arc on to your pole even if you don't touch the cable. It can also travel down smoke and if you are at the bottom putting a fire out then you can get zapped.
Michael (Hi, i'm a Michael too! ) , thats why i have a strict policy of put out no fires and run away if you see smoke, call 999 and let them deal with it.
-
Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?
My first thoughts are.........
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1729100443_Screenshot at 2024-10-16 18-40-26.png)
That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?
“Relevant window cleaning authorities”
:D :D :D
No such thing exists.
-
All they could possibly mean is the FWC.
Who have no clout.
-
A little of post but as Freemasons we collect for the air ambulance in London we brought two new ones this year over 2 million pounds
Getting the poor guy to a specialist hospital in 10 mins is worth every pound we donated
Lucky that in most towns cables are underground I rarely see over head cables but if you work out of towns be careful so much can go wrong quickly
You never know what’s round the corner
Poor man will never be the same again
-
Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?
My first thoughts are.........
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1729100443_Screenshot at 2024-10-16 18-40-26.png)
That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?
When we did an NVQ on window cleaning, the instructor told us to write a Risk Assessment for each job we do.
I thought this was going a bit overboard, but if I was the instructor, I would probably say the same.
I know that Gardiner poles have an insulated base section. Would I put my full faith that it will fully protect me from electric shock? No way.
I'm sure that most of us will do a mental assessment of the customer's property when we arrive before we start cleaning. I'm sure that we can all remember a job we rocked up to and then decided that it was best to leave it for another time.
My mental risk assessment would have probably told me that the job is too risky to do, even if I was desperate for the work. I base that on another report of the 'recent' death of a window cleaner who touched power lines with his aluminium pole.
We clean both properties of the first photo I posted on this thread. Our risk assessment says when we have finished cleaning the top windows of the first house, we collapse the pole before moving onto the next property and then extending the pole to clean those top windows. Those power lines to the houses don't carry 33,000 volts; possibly single 230v supply, but I still don't trust my Gardiner pole. I use it carefully as though it had no insulation at all.
-
Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?
My first thoughts are.........
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1729100443_Screenshot at 2024-10-16 18-40-26.png)
That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?
When we did an NVQ on window cleaning, the instructor told us to write a Risk Assessment for each job we do.
I thought this was going a bit overboard, but if I was the instructor, I would probably say the same.
I know that Gardiner poles have an insulated base section. Would I put my full faith that it will fully protect me from electric shock? No way.
I'm sure that most of us will do a mental assessment of the customer's property when we arrive before we start cleaning. I'm sure that we can all remember a job we rocked up to and then decided that it was best to leave it for another time.
My mental risk assessment would have probably told me that the job is too risky to do, even if I was desperate for the work. I base that on another report of the 'recent' death of a window cleaner who touched power lines with his aluminium pole.
We clean both properties of the first photo I posted on this thread. Our risk assessment says when we have finished cleaning the top windows of the first house, we collapse the pole before moving onto the next property and then extending the pole to clean those top windows. Those power lines to the houses don't carry 33,000 volts; possibly single 230v supply, but I still don't trust my Gardiner pole. I use it carefully as though it had no insulation at all.
If that was the one provided by Impact 43 then i done same one. Written RA for large jobs (commercial) and ongoing RA (no need for it to be written) as you go about your daily window cleaning schedule from house to house.
-
Jesus I really feel for that guy, I have many of times cleaned close to electric lines going into houses, I remember one time a mate was helping me and he said he didn't want to clean round the electric cable, I said no probs took the pole and done the facia, I seem to remember there was a black rubber covering over the cable which i thought made it half safe, how wrong was I, I will be taking alot more care from now on.
-
Hi Simon W
OK thanks
Bryan
Here are a couple taken from Google Earth where we work.
The first is power lines at the house. We have to be careful cleaning the upper windows on each side of that power line. If you look carefully, we can see power lines to the side of the house on the right. Those power lines pass in front of that side window that's open fractionally. That's a no no window for wfp (or any other method) to clean. Why they put power cables in front of that window is anyone's guess. It's unbelievable.
The second of the street shows the power lines down the street to the right. Power cables then divide for house supplies.
The pole to the very right with steps at the top are telephone power lines, They are not dangerous, but obviously we don't want to damage them.
Are telephone lines always thinner?
-
All they could possibly mean is the FWC.
Who have no clout.
Oh god please no.
Remember when they went on national TV saying waterfed poles didn’t work?!
I’m looking at you Bryan Dolby.
Whatever else we need, it’s not this bunch of utter clowns getting involved.
-
Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?
My first thoughts are.........
(http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/1729100443_Screenshot at 2024-10-16 18-40-26.png)
That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?
When we did an NVQ on window cleaning, the instructor told us to write a Risk Assessment for each job we do.
I thought this was going a bit overboard, but if I was the instructor, I would probably say the same.
I know that Gardiner poles have an insulated base section. Would I put my full faith that it will fully protect me from electric shock? No way.
I'm sure that most of us will do a mental assessment of the customer's property when we arrive before we start cleaning. I'm sure that we can all remember a job we rocked up to and then decided that it was best to leave it for another time.
My mental risk assessment would have probably told me that the job is too risky to do, even if I was desperate for the work. I base that on another report of the 'recent' death of a window cleaner who touched power lines with his aluminium pole.
We clean both properties of the first photo I posted on this thread. Our risk assessment says when we have finished cleaning the top windows of the first house, we collapse the pole before moving onto the next property and then extending the pole to clean those top windows. Those power lines to the houses don't carry 33,000 volts; possibly single 230v supply, but I still don't trust my Gardiner pole. I use it carefully as though it had no insulation at all.
If that was the one provided by Impact 43 then i done same one. Written RA for large jobs (commercial) and ongoing RA (no need for it to be written) as you go about your daily window cleaning schedule from house to house.
Yes it was Impact 43.
Jason and his father were on BBC2 news this morning (20/10/2024) compaigning for a new standard of poles being sold in the UK. He was using a Gardiner SLX pole. What he wants is the inner sections to be insulated as well. This would basically be a CLX hybrid pole already available.
He and his Dad want to travel the world compaigning for better pole manufacturing standards. He can't clean windows any longer so is he looking for a new career.
I'm sorry for what happened to him and glad he is still alive. But how much of the accident or incident is down to his negligence?
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/safety-topics/power-lines.htm&ved=2ahUKEwj2qMX8kJ6JAxVgTEEAHSh3NYIQFnoECEEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hCczRzRGEBI5c_8ExylZ2
This link is from the HSE. Explains quite a lot, everyone should have a read and show employees.
Regarding the accident at 33,000v(33kV) it recommends a safe distance of 3m. Having an insulated base pole would not have saved him.
In the first photo, it is a service cable 230v. It is relatively newish and insulated. Recommended safe distance according to HSE 1m,
I'd be happy cleaning that.
The second photo of the 3 wires going to the house is again 230v, this time bare wires. Personally wouldn't clean these but owner could ask for the electric company to shroud these.
Surprised things like this are still about.
I started an apprenticeship in 1990 at Eastern Electricity and they were changing service cables then to insulated cables.
The third photo is 3 phase, neutral and either telecom or streetlighting. 230v/415v.
Also, when we used to work on overhead lines, if there was a lightning strike we had to wait 30 mins after the last one before we restarted work.
Hope that helps people out a bit.
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/safety-topics/power-lines.htm&ved=2ahUKEwj2qMX8kJ6JAxVgTEEAHSh3NYIQFnoECEEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hCczRzRGEBI5c_8ExylZ2
This link is from the HSE. Explains quite a lot, everyone should have a read and show employees.
Regarding the accident at 33,000v(33kV) it recommends a safe distance of 3m. Having an insulated base pole would not have saved him.
In the first photo, it is a service cable 230v. It is relatively newish and insulated. Recommended safe distance according to HSE 1m,
I'd be happy cleaning that.
The second photo of the 3 wires going to the house is again 230v, this time bare wires. Personally wouldn't clean these but owner could ask for the electric company to shroud these.
Surprised things like this are still about.
I started an apprenticeship in 1990 at Eastern Electricity and they were changing service cables then to insulated cables.
The third photo is 3 phase, neutral and either telecom or streetlighting. 230v/415v.
Also, when we used to work on overhead lines, if there was a lightning strike we had to wait 30 mins after the last one before we restarted work.
Hope that helps people out a bit.
Thank you for this. Please confirm which photos you are referring to.
-
Future of cleaning sell a completely Kevlar base section to go on their poles and it's light as a feather, ideal for this very topic. I have one myself.